Re: Nose bleeds after chelation

[Guest guest]

>My son Drew (5 yo) has been chelating for about 2 months with good

success. He just did his 6th session this weekend (3on 11 off, ending Sat

pm) and Sun night and today has had significant nose bleeds. He had these

when he was a toddler but hasnt had any nosebleeds of significance for

about 2 years. We have him on a pretty standard DAN set of megavitamins.

My wife seems to remember nosebleeds being mentioned as a symptom at the

Atlanta DAN conference last spring.

>

>Does anyone have any thoughts on the triggers for nosebleeds during

chelation (or not during chelation since the timing may be coincidental.

>

>Thank you

>

> on

I have no idea what nose bleeds have to do with chelation, but I

CAN recall other people asking this. (Not in droves, but at least

a couple of times.)

Moria

[Guest guest]

> >My son Drew (5 yo) has been chelating for about 2 months with good

> success. He just did his 6th session this weekend (3on 11 off,

ending Sat

> pm) and Sun night and today has had significant nose bleeds. He

had these

> when he was a toddler but hasnt had any nosebleeds of significance

for

> about 2 years. We have him on a pretty standard DAN set of

megavitamins.

> My wife seems to remember nosebleeds being mentioned as a symptom

at the

> Atlanta DAN conference last spring.

> >

> >Does anyone have any thoughts on the triggers for nosebleeds during

> chelation (or not during chelation since the timing may be

coincidental.

> >My daughter who is 8 was diagnosed with Von Willebrand, Type I

less than a year after autism diagnosis. She began having nosebleeds

around 18-24 mos. VW can be genetic or acquired. I am very

interested in finding out if nosebleeds or clotting factors can be

affected by heavy metals(mercury). Does anyone have info. regarding

that DAN conference where nosebleeds was brought up as a symptom?

Also, we have only done a challenge test and are doing chelation as

soon as we clear up yeast from 2 rounds of antibiotics for an

infection. Thanks.

> >

>

> I have no idea what nose bleeds have to do with chelation, but I

> CAN recall other people asking this. (Not in droves, but at least

> a couple of times.)

>

> Moria

[Guest guest]

> >My son Drew (5 yo) has been chelating for about 2 months with good

> success. He just did his 6th session this weekend (3on 11 off,

ending Sat

> pm) and Sun night and today has had significant nose bleeds. He

had these

> when he was a toddler but hasnt had any nosebleeds of significance

for

> about 2 years. We have him on a pretty standard DAN set of

megavitamins.

> My wife seems to remember nosebleeds being mentioned as a symptom

at the

> Atlanta DAN conference last spring.

> >

> >Does anyone have any thoughts on the triggers for nosebleeds during

> chelation (or not during chelation since the timing may be

coincidental.

> >My daughter who is 8 was diagnosed with Von Willebrand, Type I

less than a year after autism diagnosis. She began having nosebleeds

around 18-24 mos. VW can be genetic or acquired. I am very

interested in finding out if nosebleeds or clotting factors can be

affected by heavy metals(mercury). Does anyone have info. regarding

that DAN conference where nosebleeds was brought up as a symptom?

Also, we have only done a challenge test and are doing chelation as

soon as we clear up yeast from 2 rounds of antibiotics for an

infection. Thanks.

> >

>

> I have no idea what nose bleeds have to do with chelation, but I

> CAN recall other people asking this. (Not in droves, but at least

> a couple of times.)

>

> Moria

[Guest guest]

and Moria,

You may be aware that I'm pretty convinced that one of the effects of

mercury toxicity, and maybe the most dangerous effect, may be its effects

on sulfate transport, possibly leading to sulfate deficiency. In some

children, from looking at plasma amino acid levels and getting a history of

their growth, it looks like many with autism may be profoundly deficient in

sulfate (more so than most children with autism)...so deficient that their

body breaks down muscle to get at the sulfur stored there.

Just a few stories from parents on such children who have had difficulty

growing, but began chelation reported adverse reactions to

chelation. There stories have convinced me that some children need to get

their sulfur chemistry to recover to some extent before beginning chelation.

Chelation itself may strain the sulfur chemistry because DMSA has been

found to be excreted in a form where it drags two cysteine's with it.

Cysteine is the precursor of sulfate.

Treating yeast infections may also challenge this chemistry. To highlight

THAT effect, I'm putting below a paragraph I wrote four years ago when I

was a caregiver for my father who had Alzheimers disease.

-------------------------------

I just got back from Memphis where my father had started a round of

diflucan to treat a fungal infection he has had for years. He has been on

Ticlid, an anticoagulant, for three years, but on the third or fourth day

of diflucan, he started to have nosebleeds, and one morning I found him

with his entire shirt saturated with blood. Neither his doctor, pharmacy,

or the local pharmacy school could tell me of a potential interaction, but

a letter to Dr. Bill Shaw brought the suggestion that both drugs might be

using the same detoxification pathway. It may be that when diflucan

started " using up " that detoxification chemistry, my father might have

ended up with too much active anticoagulant in his system because his body

was suddently not breaking down this drug properly, even though he had been

taking it without any problems for three years. This sort of phenomenon is

relevant to what has been telling us about " suboptimality "

issues. Things can have unanticipated effects when they occur together.

=======================================

Van Willebrand factor has a lot to do with sulfated molecules, and is very

related with the sort of lipid related receptors that may explain the

relationship that the cholesterol disease Lemli-Opitz and the Reelin

story have to autism.

I've put some abstracts below investigating the role that Vwf has to do

with various sulfated GAGs. If chelation and/or antifungal medication are

putting a strain on sulfation chemistry, then you might expect some of

these relationships to get strained. Please note the article on platelets.

J Biol Chem 2001 Apr 13;276(15):11970-9

Cell surface heparan sulfate proteoglycans participate in factor VIII

catabolism

mediated by low density lipoprotein receptor-related protein.

Sarafanov AG, Ananyeva NM, Shima M, Saenko EL.

Holland Laboratory, American Red Cross, Rockville, land 20855,

Washington University, Washington D.C. 20037, USA.

We have demonstrated previously that catabolism of a coagulation factor VIII

(fVIII) from its complex with von Willebrand factor (vWf) is mediated by low

density lipoprotein receptor-related protein (LRP) (Saenko, E. L., Yakhyaev, A.

V., Mikhailenko, I., Strickland, D. K., and Sarafanov, A. G. (1999) J. Biol.

Chem. 274, 37685-37692). In the present study, we found that this process is

facilitated by cell surface heparan sulfate proteoglycans (HSPGs). This was

demonstrated by simultaneous blocking of LRP and HSPGs in model cells, which

completely prevented fVIII internalization and degradation from its complex

with

vWf. In contrast, the selective blocking of either receptor had a lesser

effect.

In vivo studies of clearance of (125)I-fVIII-vWf complex in mice also

demonstrated that the simultaneous blocking of HSPGs and LRP led to a more

significant prolongation of fVIII half-life (5.5-fold) than blocking of LRP

alone (3.5-fold). The cell culture and in vivo experiments revealed that HSPGs

are also involved in another, LRP-independent pathway of fVIII catabolism. In

both pathways, HSPGs act as receptors providing the initial binding of

fVIII-vWf

complex to cells. We demonstrated that this binding occurs via the A2 domain of

fVIII, since A2, but not other portions of fVIII or isolated vWf, strongly

inhibited cell surface binding of fVIII-vWf complex, and the affinities of A2

and fVIII-vWf complex for the cells were similar. The A2 site involved in

binding to heparin was localized to the region 558-565, based on the ability of

the corresponding synthetic peptide to inhibit A2 binding to heparin, used as a

model for HSPGs.

PMID: 11278379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Ter Arkh 1998;70(3):67-71

[Leukocyte and thrombocyte glycosaminoglycans in hemophilia A and von

Willebrand's disease].

[Article in Russian]

Kharchenko MF, Egorova LV, Bitiukova ES, Tutova II, Nazarova NS, Papaian LP,

Kargin VD.

AIM: The study of glycosaminoglycanes (GAG) in leukocytes and platelets of

patients with hereditary coagulopathy. MATERIALS AND METHODS: GAG

concentration,

composition and fraction identification were made in 25 patients with

hemophilia

A and 10 patients with Willebrand disease. RESULTS: In hemophiliacs, leukocytes

contained low concentrations of GAG. In those with bleeding and synovitis GAG

levels were lower than the average, in those with extensive hematomas in the

absence of locomotor disorders the above levels were close to normal.

Chondroitinsulphate dominated in GAG composition though it was less

polydisperse. Heparin sulphate levels were elevated. Platelet GAG

characteristics were close to normal. In Willebrand disease leukocyte GAG

content and composition was similar to those in hemophilia A except some

differences in electrophoretic properties of small GAG components. CONCLUSION:

Metabolism and/or release of GAG from blood cells may be involved in

pathogenesis of hemophilia A and Willebrand disease.

PMID: 9575593 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Biochim Biophys Acta 1987 Dec 10;931(3):286-93

Platelet surface glycosaminoglycans are an effective shield for distinct

platelet receptors.

Steiner M.

Division of Hematology/Oncology, Memorial Hospital of Rhode Island, Pawtucket

02860.

The presence of glycosaminoglycans on the platelet surface was demonstrated by

electronmicroscopy and biochemical analysis. Chondroitin ABC lyase was able to

remove a substantial portion of the Ruthenium red-stained outer coat of

platelets. Analysis of the reaction product released by the enzyme revealed

chondroitin 4-sulfate. To determine the biological function of this

glycosaminoglycan coat, binding studies with a variety of potential platelet

ligands were performed. In decreasing order of effectiveness, chondroitin ABC

lyase was able to increase the binding sites of von Willebrand factor,

fibrinogen, antibody to platelet-specific antigen P1A1, Fc fragments of

IgG, and

monomeric IgG. No change in binding was observed with F(ab)2 fragments of IgG,

wheat germ agglutinin and pokeweed mitogen. These studies indicate that

glycosaminoglycans shield some platelet receptor sites from their respective

ligands. Upon release of the heteropolysaccharide from the platelet surface

more

of these sites become accessible to the ligand. It may be significant that

especially glycoproteins involved in platelet adhesion and aggregation are

involved in this process.

PMID: 2823910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

At 10/24/2001 +000004:09 AM, you wrote:

>

> > >My son Drew (5 yo) has been chelating for about 2 months with good

> > success. He just did his 6th session this weekend (3on 11 off,

>ending Sat

> > pm) and Sun night and today has had significant nose bleeds. He

>had these

> > when he was a toddler but hasnt had any nosebleeds of significance

>for

> > about 2 years. We have him on a pretty standard DAN set of

>megavitamins.

> > My wife seems to remember nosebleeds being mentioned as a symptom

>at the

> > Atlanta DAN conference last spring.

> > >

> > >Does anyone have any thoughts on the triggers for nosebleeds during

> > chelation (or not during chelation since the timing may be

>coincidental.

> > >My daughter who is 8 was diagnosed with Von Willebrand, Type I

>less than a year after autism diagnosis. She began having nosebleeds

>around 18-24 mos. VW can be genetic or acquired. I am very

>interested in finding out if nosebleeds or clotting factors can be

>affected by heavy metals(mercury). Does anyone have info. regarding

>that DAN conference where nosebleeds was brought up as a symptom?

>Also, we have only done a challenge test and are doing chelation as

>soon as we clear up yeast from 2 rounds of antibiotics for an

>infection. Thanks.

> > >

>

> >

> > I have no idea what nose bleeds have to do with chelation, but I

> > CAN recall other people asking this. (Not in droves, but at least

> > a couple of times.)

> >

> > Moria

[Guest guest]

| Not sure if this will apply but nose bleeds can actually be a sign of

dehydration.

Also a sign of allergy. Could your kid be allergic to some supplement? My

daughter's not on milk thistle due to

allergy. You can spray a pure saline solution (not the preservative polluted

stuff they sell - dump it out of the spray

bottle and replace) to stop the bleeding.

K.