Re: jesus christ sucks cock in hell

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>Subject: Re: jesus christ sucks cock in hell

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>Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:19:40 PDT

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>fuck jesus and thre apostles

>

>>From 12-step-free-return-59-robertmartin42=hotmail.com@...

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>Jun 18 16:41:40 1998

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>>Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:40:57 EDT

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>>Subject: Re: newgroup is gettin' to be a waste o' time

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>>Hi all! I meant to subscribe earlier but as most of you saw, I was

>kind of

>>occupied <g>. Bette forwarded me this thread about moderating the

>newsgroup

>>so that I could see what had been said before I jumped in and ran my

>mouth.

>>

>>Anyway, I know some of you may not take this seriously as you probably

>>consider me part of the problem. I agree that my behavior the last

>couple of

>>days has been atrocious and I apologize to anyone who was offended.

>But, I am

>>against moderating the newsgroup for a variety of reasons and as a

>regular

>>poster there (who aside from this week, really does contribute), I

>wanted to

>>give you my perspective.

>>

>>1. Believe it or not, crossposting helps people. I left the 12-steps

>and

>>started posting to arf12s because of a very similar situation. While

I

>wasn't

>>in the flame war, I read a pretty serious dispute between the two

>groups with

>>Reese, Ken, and in the lead. That's when I realized what I

did

>and

>>didn't want. I didn't want the 12 steps and I didn't want to be like

>the

>>people who were posting from arna. And since the people from arf12s

>made

>>sense, I thought I'd give something else a try. Without crossposting,

>I never

>>would have known there was another way. (I'd heard of RR and SMART,

of

>>course, but I believed the propaganda about them) There have been

>several

>>people who have said the same thing so I know that it's not just me.

I

>would

>>gladly wade through the bullshit so that someone who needed to hear

the

>>message, heard it. I had given up hope. Crossposting changed that.

>>

>>2. Censorship is wrong. Anyone who doesn't have a killfile or filter

>can

>>skip the posts that they don't want to read. I don't think anyone

>should have

>>the power to determine what everyone else *should* read. It just

feels

>like

>>communism to me. Personally, I would like to determine how much crap

I

>read,

>>not someone else. What's crap to one person may be helpful to

another.

>Where

>>do you draw the line? What's likely happen is that certain people are

>going

>>to get filtered automatically and even if they ever did a serious

post,

>no one

>>would see it. And what if those of us who are regulars get into a

>>disagreement? There are people on arf12s that piss me off. Do I have

>to

>>watch what I post to make it past the censors? I just don't like it.

>>

>>3. It's lame. Granted, Reese and others (myself included

>occasionally) take

>>some things *way* too far but I do believe that fair is fair (to an

>extent).

>>Captainusa, Markus, and others regularly post anti-12 step stuff to

>arna and

>>araa. When they want to retalliate (not that I condone vengeance) are

>we

>>going to say, " Na na na, you can't post here. " I fell like I'm in the

>3rd

>>grade. It almost seems like we can give it but we can't take it. One

>could

>>effectively argue that we wanted to protect ourselves from hearing

>opposing

>>viewpoints.

>>

>>4. Some of the biggest assholes turn out to be great assets to the

>newsgroup.

>>(No, I'm not talking about Reese, I don't expect a change of heart

from

>him)

>>But, there have been 2 or 3 people who have viciously attacked me for

>leaving

>>the fellowship. One of them responded to almost every post of mine in

>a rude

>>way. Weeks later, he read Trimpey's book and realized that there may

>be a

>>better way. He started posting to arf12s and has a lot of good

>insights. The

>>others didn't convert but they did become more understanding and I

>think it

>>helped bridge the gap between steppers and non-steppers. To me, it

>doesn't so

>>much matter what program a person chooses. We all have the same

>problem and

>>we all need help. I don't think all the animosity is necessary.

>>

>>5. For those who think the newsgroup is too " harsh " , there are

>censored list

>>servers. We have this one, x-aa, addict-l, smart, etc. Those who

>don't want

>>all the crap have plenty of places to post. But for those of us who

>like some

>>of the crossposting and who think it can help people, can't we have

one

>place

>>where we are free to post as we please? I notice that a lot of people

>who are

>>for moderation haven't been on the newsgroup that long. Which means

>you've

>>only seen the bad side of crossposting. This particular flame war was

>pretty

>>pathetic but some of them are really good. When it doesn't digress

>into

>>namecalling, it's a wonderful way to see other views and either

>strengthen or

>>re-evaluate your own.

>>

>>Anyway, I am adamantly against moderating the newsgroup but if I'm

>outvoted

>>there is nothing I can do. I would like to suggest though, that if

you

>are

>>really serious about it, can we consider having 2 newsgroups? That

>way, those

>>who want it moderated can go there and those who don't can stay as is.

>Or, if

>>it comes down to it, anyone know how I can start a newsgroup? <g>

>>

>>Thanks for listening.

>>

>>Kim

>>

>>

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