Re: Results of DDI Hair Test

November 6, 2001

Hi,

Some questions about results of DDI Hair Element test:

1) My son would appear, by the counting rules, not to be mercury toxic. How

certainly can we determine that mercury toxicity is not a problem?

2) Under Potentially Toxic Elements, several were quite elevated. Aluminum

was 20 (ref range <8.0), Antimony .078 (<.066), Arsenic 0.2 (.08), lead 1.2

(1.0), uranium .083 (.06), Tin .76 (.3) with total toxic representation

looking to be about 85%. Reading in Files, I saw where Andy had mentioned to

try to eliminate toxic elements (other than mercury) by working on the

easiest to eliminate first to lower the total toxic load. Which of these

elevated elements is easiest to eliminate? Which is the most dangerous? How

are these eliminated?

3) Under Essential Elements, two were in the very low category; zinc and

strontium. We've been trying to supplement with zinc, but when I give my son

zinc before going to sleep, as I was told was the best way to do it, he has

great trouble sleeping. What could this mean? (His zinc is 36; ref range

100-190; his copper is 13, ref range 8-16). Also, what does it mean that

strontium is extremely low (.006; ref range .16 - 1.0)?

4) Low sulfur/high sulfur kids: My son has phenol problems. We try to reduce

the phenol load and do epsom salt baths. I don't know if he's high or low

sulfur. He did become extremely hyperactive after two days of transdermal

glutathione (don't know if htat was due to the glutathione or a carrying

agent). Would his sulfur hair count (49400; ref range 45000-53000) help

determine if he's a high or low sulfur kid? I totally dread doing the plasma

cysteine blood test because the last time we drew blood, he screamed for

hours and had nightmares for a week. Seriously.

Thanks so much for any help,

Debbie

November 6, 2001

In a message dated 11/6/01 10:38:25 PM Central Standard Time,

l_shepard@... writes:

> First, if you haven't already I'd identify sources of exposure and eliminate

> those if possible: tin from toothpaste, fluoridated water, and some say

> canned pineapple, antimony from flame retardant on bedding and sleepwear,

> aluminum from fluoridated water, aluminum cans, cookware, etc.

The aluminum really has me baffled. We don't have flouridated water, don't

eat canned foods, don't have flame-retardant bedding of sleepwear, don't use

aluminum cookware, don't have aluminum in toothpaste. Where is it coming

from? For that matter, I don't know where the antimony, arsenic or lead were

coming from. From everything I read about sources of these metals, I don't

see any of it applying. I don't get it.

Thanks so much,

Debbie

November 6, 2001

First, if you haven't already I'd identify sources of exposure and eliminate

those if possible: tin from toothpaste, fluoridated water, and some say canned

pineapple, antimony from flame retardant on bedding and sleepwear, aluminum from

fluoridated water, aluminum cans, cookware, etc. DMSA is used for lead detox,

in fact the PDR listing is based upon using it for lead. Some use apple pectin

or malic acid for aluminum but several on the list say there's something more

commonly used /recommended now. I think it's SAMe for the antimony. Can't help

you with doses or schedule off the top of my head.

S

On Tue, 06 November 2001, TwoTonks@... wrote:

>

> <html><body>

> <tt>

> Hi,

>

> Some questions about results of DDI Hair Element test:

>

> 1) My son would appear, by the counting rules, not to be mercury toxic. How

> certainly can we determine that mercury toxicity is not a problem?

>

> 2) Under Potentially Toxic Elements, several were quite elevated. Aluminum

> was 20 (ref range & lt;8.0), Antimony .078 ( & lt;.066), Arsenic 0.2 (.08), lead

1.2

> (1.0), uranium .083 (.06), Tin .76 (.3) with total toxic representation

> looking to be about 85%. Reading in Files, I saw where Andy had mentioned to

> try to eliminate toxic elements (other than mercury) by working on the

> easiest to eliminate first to lower the total toxic load. Which of these

> elevated elements is easiest to eliminate? Which is the most dangerous? How

> are these eliminated?

>

> 3) Under Essential Elements, two were in the very low category; zinc and

> strontium. We've been trying to supplement with zinc, but when I give my son

> zinc before going to sleep, as I was told was the best way to do it, he has

> great trouble sleeping. What could this mean? (His zinc is 36; ref range

> 100-190; his copper is 13, ref range 8-16). Also, what does it mean that

> strontium is extremely low (.006; ref range .16 - 1.0)?

>

> 4) Low sulfur/high sulfur kids: My son has phenol problems. We try to reduce

> the phenol load and do epsom salt baths. I don't know if he's high or low

> sulfur. He did become extremely hyperactive after two days of transdermal

> glutathione (don't know if htat was due to the glutathione or a carrying

> agent). Would his sulfur hair count (49400; ref range 45000-53000) help

> determine if he's a high or low sulfur kid? I totally dread doing the plasma

> cysteine blood test because the last time we drew blood, he screamed for

> hours and had nightmares for a week. Seriously.

>

> Thanks so much for any help,

> Debbie

>

>

November 7, 2001

In a message dated 11/7/01 3:43:54 PM EST, l_shepard@... writes:

<< The cream she mentions is Emla cream, applied to the site 30 min. prior to

draw if I remember correctly. Haven't tried it myself. >>

We had a prescription for this, but didn't fill or use it. The lab which was

going to do the bloodwork (in a children's hospital with a very good

reputation) said I could use it if I wanted, but in their experience,

children freaked more to being held still than to actual pain. Also, they

felt the Emla cream constricted blood vessels and made it a bit harder to

find the vein, possibly resulting in more pokes.

Having said that, things couldn't have gone worse had we used the Emla. Next

time around, I think we'll have to try it.

Debbie

November 7, 2001

Dear Debbie,

>1) My son would appear, by the counting rules, not to be mercury toxic. How

>certainly can we determine that mercury toxicity is not a problem?

I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone is sure. I don't think

this is that conclusive (unfortunately). I think it is more like

mercury TENDS VERY STRONGLY to mess up mineral transport. The

" good " part is that if you use ALA to get rid of the arsenic, it

will ALSO get rid of any mercury. So, in practical terms you

may not need to know if there was mercury.

>2) Under Potentially Toxic Elements, several were quite elevated. Aluminum

>was 20 (ref range <8.0), Antimony .078 (<.066), Arsenic 0.2 (.08), lead 1.2

>(1.0), uranium .083 (.06), Tin .76 (.3) with total toxic representation

>looking to be about 85%. Reading in Files, I saw where Andy had mentioned to

>try to eliminate toxic elements (other than mercury) by working on the

>easiest to eliminate first to lower the total toxic load. Which of these

>elevated elements is easiest to eliminate? Which is the most dangerous? How

>are these eliminated?

I don't know for all of them. Arsenic: ALA. Lead: DMSA.

The others I'm not so sure about. Parents have reported QUITE a

range of toxic metals being excreted (as per urine tests) using

DMSA. Also, Andy says that " impaired mineral transport " messes

up both essential elements AND toxic ones, so I speculate that

getting mercury out MAY result in some toxics being detoxed

by the body. This may have little relevance for you though,

since your child ALREADY appears to have normal mineral transport.

Malic acid and apple pectin (both available at HFS) are often

reported here as useful for aluminum. I don't know how much.

For antimony SAMe. " 5 mg a day per pound of kid in divided doses " .

I don't know which is most dangerous, or which treatments most

effective or safest. If you decide to go with DMSA/ALA route,

you may get a number of things out. I think, which ever

you try to treat first, I'd do another hair test in 6 months

to see how it is looking. Of course, your child's progress

is the most important measure, but if there are some toxics

that are not being reduced, hair test would tell you (except

for mercury of course.)

>4) Low sulfur/high sulfur kids: My son has phenol problems. We try to reduce

>the phenol load and do epsom salt baths. I don't know if he's high or low

>sulfur. He did become extremely hyperactive after two days of transdermal

>glutathione (don't know if htat was due to the glutathione or a carrying

>agent). Would his sulfur hair count (49400; ref range 45000-53000) help

>determine if he's a high or low sulfur kid?

No. I'm just repeating Andy on this. I have no understanding of

such things, but know that Andy has answered many permutations

of questions like this and the ONLY ways he notes to determine

it are plasma cysteine test or exlusion of sulpur from diet

(which takes quite a bit of time). If you want to try the diet,

I think I might have saved a couple other comments from Andy

on how to do that (with some luck I may be able to find them

LOL). Ask if interested.

> I totally dread doing the plasma

>cysteine blood test because the last time we drew blood, he screamed for

>hours and had nightmares for a week. Seriously.

I'm with you on this, although maybe lesser degree--- I put it off

myself for a long time-- the last time I'd had blood drawn was

really quite dreadful. (My arm hurt for hours but I didn't scream

for hours. But that may just be do to " socialization " on my part.)

I know for certain that Andy and other

listmates can comment on ways to reduce pain and discomfort in

this process. Perhaps people will comment now. If not, and

you decide to do the test, ask-- a lot of what I've heard is

about finding a skilled and careful person to do the blood

draw-- but I think I've also heard about some sort of creme

to use to desensitize the area first. Can some of you add to

that?

best,

Moria

November 7, 2001

The cream she mentions is Emla cream, applied to the site 30 min. prior to draw

if I remember correctly. Haven't tried it myself.

S

On Wed, 07 November 2001, Moria Merriweather wrote:

>

> <html><body>

> <tt>

> Dear Debbie,

>

> & gt;1) My son would appear, by the counting rules, not to be mercury toxic.

How

> & gt;certainly can we determine that mercury toxicity is not a problem?

>

> I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone is sure. & nbsp; I don't think

> this is that conclusive (unfortunately). & nbsp; I think it is more like

> mercury TENDS VERY STRONGLY to mess up mineral transport. The

> & quot;good & quot; part is that if you use ALA to get rid of the arsenic, it

> will ALSO get rid of any mercury. & nbsp; So, in practical terms you

> may not need to know if there was mercury. & nbsp;

>

> & gt;2) Under Potentially Toxic Elements, several were quite elevated. Aluminum

> & gt;was 20 (ref range & lt;8.0), Antimony .078 ( & lt;.066), Arsenic 0.2 (.08),

lead 1.2

> & gt;(1.0), uranium .083 (.06), Tin .76 (.3) with total toxic representation

> & gt;looking to be about 85%. Reading in Files, I saw where Andy had mentioned

to

> & gt;try to eliminate toxic elements (other than mercury) by working on the

> & gt;easiest to eliminate first to lower the total toxic load. Which of these

> & gt;elevated elements is easiest to eliminate? Which is the most dangerous?

How

> & gt;are these eliminated?

>

> I don't know for all of them. Arsenic: ALA. Lead: DMSA.

> The others I'm not so sure about. & nbsp; Parents have reported QUITE a

> range of toxic metals being excreted (as per urine tests) using

> DMSA. & nbsp; Also, Andy says that & quot;impaired mineral transport & quot;

messes

> up both essential elements AND toxic ones, so I speculate that

> getting mercury out MAY result in some toxics being detoxed

> by the body. & nbsp; This may have little relevance for you though,

> since your child ALREADY appears to have normal mineral transport.

> Malic acid and apple pectin (both available at HFS) are often

> reported here as useful for aluminum. I don't know how much.

> For antimony SAMe. & nbsp; & quot;5 mg a day per pound of kid in divided

doses & quot;.

> I don't know which is most dangerous, or which treatments most

> effective or safest. & nbsp; If you decide to go with DMSA/ALA route,

> you may get a number of things out. & nbsp; I think, which ever

> you try to treat first, I'd do another hair test in 6 months

> to see how it is looking. & nbsp; Of course, your child's progress

> is the most important measure, but if there are some toxics

> that are not being reduced, hair test would tell you (except

> for mercury of course.)

>

> & gt;4) Low sulfur/high sulfur kids: My son has phenol problems. We try to

reduce

> & gt;the phenol load and do epsom salt baths. I don't know if he's high or low

> & gt;sulfur. He did become extremely hyperactive after two days of transdermal

> & gt;glutathione (don't know if htat was due to the glutathione or a carrying

> & gt;agent). Would his sulfur hair count (49400; ref range 45000-53000) help

> & gt;determine if he's a high or low sulfur kid?

>

> No. & nbsp; I'm just repeating Andy on this. I have no understanding of

> such things, but know that Andy has answered many permutations

> of questions like this and the ONLY ways he notes to determine

> it are plasma cysteine test or exlusion of sulpur from diet

> (which takes quite a bit of time). If you want to try the diet,

> I think I might have saved a couple other comments from Andy

> on how to do that (with some luck I may be able to find them

> LOL). Ask if interested.

>

> & gt; & nbsp; I totally dread doing the plasma

> & gt;cysteine blood test because the last time we drew blood, he screamed for

> & gt;hours and had nightmares for a week. Seriously.

>

> I'm with you on this, although maybe lesser degree--- I put it off

> myself for a long time-- the last time I'd had blood drawn was

> really quite dreadful. & nbsp; (My arm hurt for hours but I didn't scream

> for hours. But that may just be do to & quot;socialization & quot; on my

part.)

> I know for certain that Andy and other

> listmates can comment on ways to reduce pain and discomfort in

> this process. & nbsp; Perhaps people will comment now. & nbsp; If not, and

> you decide to do the test, ask-- a lot of what I've heard is

> about finding a skilled and careful person to do the blood

> draw-- but I think I've also heard about some sort of creme

> to use to desensitize the area first. & nbsp; Can some of you add to

> that?

>

> best,

> Moria

>

> </tt>

>

>

>

>

>

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> <td align=center>

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>

> <tt>

> =======================================================

>

November 7, 2001

Celia - Actually, this is true for a lot of our kids. At least for my

daughter, her pain threshold is very high. She'll fall down and get a cut or

a bruise and not cry. So, the thing that freaks her out about getting blood

drawn isn't the needle stick as much as having 5 adults lay on top of her

holding her down. I've been recently asking the nurses to let her watch a

video and just hold her arm down gently rather than wrestling her down as

they had been doing. Hardly a fuss! I think the EMLA cream helps, though, (I

always use it) although Dr. Amy told me that she's tried it and it doesn't do

much.

I do agree with you completely about doctors not having empathy for children

and the pain they feel, though. It's horrible that they do procedures (even

some surgery) on babies without anethesia. I think, with some autistic kids,

it's a little different in terms of what they feel, but we should try our

best to reduce their discomfort as much as possible, whether it's from

needles or from their terror at being restrained.

November 7, 2001

Hi,

I regularly use Emla cream for my son who is now 8. I think the lab saying

that the kids have more of a problem with being held than with the pain are

being ridiculous. Thats almost as good as one doctor telling me in ICU that

babies don't feel pain! My son as a premie (26 wks) had so many needles and

iv's as a baby most of his vein walls collapsed. So I can understand the

concern about constriction. However, this has not been my experience. A

competent person will have no problem. An incompetent person will have a

problem Emla or no Emla. My advice is to use Emla (apply between 45 mins and

1 hour beforehand however, not 30 mins) and check out the person who is to

do the draw thoroughly, the nursing staff usually can be persuaded to

describe the talents of the docs. An experienced nurse is usually better

than a junior doc.

Celia

>

> << The cream she mentions is Emla cream, applied to the site 30 min. prior

to

> draw if I remember correctly. Haven't tried it myself. >>

>

> We had a prescription for this, but didn't fill or use it. The lab which

was

> going to do the bloodwork (in a children's hospital with a very good

> reputation) said I could use it if I wanted, but in their experience,

> children freaked more to being held still than to actual pain. Also, they

> felt the Emla cream constricted blood vessels and made it a bit harder to

> find the vein, possibly resulting in more pokes.

>

> Having said that, things couldn't have gone worse had we used the Emla.

>

> Debbie

>

> =======================================================

>

November 7, 2001

Debbie,

Wow, looks like you've checked into all the usual suspects...fabric softener has

something in it, vaccines have aluminum. I just started reading

Cave's new book " What your Doctor may not have told you about Vaccines " . I

don't recall your child's age. Does your child have any metal in the mouth

(braces, retainer, fillings, crowns, caps)? Does your child bathe in filtered

water? Hope you don't mind all the questions, just trying to help play

detective.

S

On Tue, 06 November 2001, TwoTonks@... wrote:

>

> <html><body>

> <tt>

> In a message dated 11/6/01 10:38:25 PM Central Standard Time,

> l_shepard@... writes:

>

> & gt; First, if you haven't already I'd identify sources of exposure and

eliminate

> & gt; those if possible: tin from toothpaste, fluoridated water, and some say

> & gt; canned pineapple, antimony from flame retardant on bedding and sleepwear,

> & gt; aluminum from fluoridated water, aluminum cans, cookware, etc. & nbsp;

>

> The aluminum really has me baffled. We don't have flouridated water, don't

> eat canned foods, don't have flame-retardant bedding of sleepwear, don't use

> aluminum cookware, don't have aluminum in toothpaste. Where is it coming

> from? For that matter, I don't know where the antimony, arsenic or lead were

> coming from. From everything I read about sources of these metals, I don't

> see any of it applying. I don't get it.

>

> Thanks so much,

> Debbie

>

>

November 8, 2001

In a message dated 11/7/01 11:28:48 PM EST, l_shepard@...

writes:

<< Debbie,

Wow, looks like you've checked into all the usual suspects...fabric softener

has something in it, vaccines have aluminum. I just started reading

Cave's new book " What your Doctor may not have told you about

Vaccines " . I don't recall your child's age. Does your child have any metal

in the mouth (braces, retainer, fillings, crowns, caps)? Does your child

bathe in filtered water? Hope you don't mind all the questions, just trying

to help play detective.

S >>

My son is 4. We've never used fabric softener, no metal in the mouth. We have

a water softener and water filter in our garage to service all in-house water

- could this be a problem somehow? We only drink/cook with bottled spring

water but based on what I've read, will be switching to drinking (and cooking

with) distilled water.

I wonder about cookware. What's the best to use? I have used some aluminum in

the past, but switched to stainless steel and teflon. Are these a problem?

I know we'll have to do something to reduce my son's toxic level, but how to

I keep from adding to it if I don't know where the sources of the toxic

metals are coming from?

Thanks,

Debbie

November 8, 2001

Debbie,

Some stainless steel cookware contains about 5% nickel. One can do a magnet

test, I'll have to check mine when I get home to remember which kind holds the

magnet. Did you have hihg exposure to toxic metals while pregnant? Do you have

other children? Have you (or other children) tested high as well?

S

On Thu, 08 November 2001, TwoTonks@... wrote:

>

> <html><body>

> <tt>

> In a message dated 11/7/01 11:28:48 PM EST, l_shepard@...

> writes:

>

> & lt; & lt; Debbie,

> Wow, looks like you've checked into all the usual suspects...fabric softener

> has something in it, vaccines have aluminum. & nbsp; I just started reading

> Cave's new book & quot;What your Doctor may not have told you about

> Vaccines & quot;. & nbsp; I don't recall your child's age. & nbsp; Does your child

have any metal

> in the mouth (braces, retainer, fillings, crowns, caps)? & nbsp; Does your child

> bathe in filtered water? & nbsp; Hope you don't mind all the questions, just

trying

> to help play detective.

> S & gt; & gt;

>

> My son is 4. We've never used fabric softener, no metal in the mouth. We have

> a water softener and water filter in our garage to service all in-house water

> - could this be a problem somehow? We only drink/cook with bottled spring

> water but based on what I've read, will be switching to drinking (and cooking

> with) distilled water.

>

> I wonder about cookware. What's the best to use? I have used some aluminum in

> the past, but switched to stainless steel and teflon. Are these a problem?

>

> I know we'll have to do something to reduce my son's toxic level, but how to

> I keep from adding to it if I don't know where the sources of the toxic

> metals are coming from?

>

> Thanks,

> Debbie

> </tt>

>

>

>

>

>

> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

> <td align=center>

Sponsor</td>

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> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

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href= " http://rd./M=210672.1513963.3091383.1442549/D=egroupweb/S=1705061\

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> =======================================================

>

November 9, 2001

In a message dated 11/8/01 10:54:17 PM Central Standard Time,

l_shepard@... writes:

> Some stainless steel cookware contains about 5% nickel. One can do a

> magnet test, I'll have to check mine when I get home to remember which kind

> holds the magnet. Did you have hihg exposure to toxic metals while

> pregnant? Do you have other children? Have you (or other children) tested

> high as well?

>

Nickel wasn't a problem for my son. To my knowledge, I had no exposure to

toxic metals while pregnant. I never had a cavity until my son was 3, and

then it was filled with non-metal. I have no other children.

Thanks for your help,

Debbie

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