Re: PLEASE Arsinic removal instruction

October 21, 2001

Moria, Vicki, and others, a note first. Neither of the children I am writing

about are mine. I do not have their labs handy so I have to judge by the time

spent with the kids and what the mothers are sharing with me.

Kid one is the living image of Andy's' book on arsenic toxicity. Agonizing

appearance unable to stay in one place. acidic foods. This child will drink

tobasco, Soy sauce. taps his palms and fingers incessantly. At times he seems

like he is being tormented. I don't have the book now so I cannot remember

the rest of the matching symptoms. I am sure this is his immediate problem.

He has no amalgams and had begun celation. Problem is he has high copper and

tin, and, off the chart Mercury. Now the understanding is ALA cannot be used

until the copper and other metals are way down. SO HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE

ARSENIC ISSUE?? Cant use ALA for it ... not yelling at you just trying to

draw attention to the main question.

second kid, mother is just getting hip to the idea that here child is sick

and not mentally ill. So, basically this child has had no assistance in the

way of detoxification. Amalgams are scheduled to come out October 30. In the

mean time. He is making holes in the walls of his house with his head. He is

only six years old 45lbs. Very combative. Mom tells me he plays at the

playground all day where about six weeks ago they filled the ground with

those " bark chips. " I thought I read on this list that wood can be a high

arsenic toxin...

The aggressive head banging we are seeing started about four weeks ago. He is

in a bad way.

Thanks for your responses so far,

Judy

October 21, 2001

>Is anbody out there right now??

>This is the situation,

>We have to know how to go ahead and get rid of the arsinic without having

yet

>removed almalgams or used any DMSA.

>Is this even a possibility?

>Also is it possible to use ALA for the arsinic if you have a high copper?

>I tried getting info. from the archives for some reason I cant get in.

>Judy

Hi Judy,

I've been on line much of the day.

um--- it is POSSIBLE to do a lot of things that are poor ideas.

So --um-- sure-- it is POSSIBLE to use ALA with amalgams and

high copper and <whatever>.

ALA tends to reduce copper excretion, which means that copper level

will tend to go up on ALA. Which you can take/give zinc to control.

Using ALA with amalgams in place seems like a dreadful risk to take.

I can't say I would want to do it. (Bear in mind I did have to

do about $4000 worth of dental work myself, so I don't just consider

this an " academic " issue.)

Or--um-- were you asking about the archive? I used it this afternoon

(couple hours ago) with no problems.

Here is a post with Andy talking a bit about copper levels:

/message/2142

I got that out of the ANDY_INDEX, from the section on chelation agents

/files/ANDY_INDEX

Moria

October 21, 2001

ALA chelates arsenic but you can't use it if you still

have silver amalgams without putting more metals in

your body. You also can't use it if you have high

copper because ALA drives copper level up so be

careful. A good supplement to help with high copper is

zinc. Vicky

--- bronze3n1@... wrote:

> Is anbody out there right now??

> This is the situation,

> We have to know how to go ahead and get rid of the

> arsinic without having yet

> removed almalgams or used any DMSA.

> Is this even a possibility?

> Also is it possible to use ALA for the arsinic if

> you have a high copper?

> I tried getting info. from the archives for some

> reason I cant get in.

> Judy

>

__________________________________________________

October 22, 2001

Hi Judy,

Stating the obvious here: these mom's are very lucky to have you

hanging around trying to figure this stuff out and help them.

>Kid one is the living image of Andy's' book on arsenic toxicity. Agonizing

>appearance unable to stay in one place. acidic foods. This child will drink

>tobasco, Soy sauce. taps his palms and fingers incessantly. At times he

seems

>like he is being tormented. I don't have the book now so I cannot remember

>the rest of the matching symptoms. I am sure this is his immediate problem.

>He has no amalgams and had begun celation. Problem is he has high copper and

>tin, and, off the chart Mercury. Now the understanding is ALA cannot be used

>until the copper and other metals are way down. SO HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE

>ARSENIC ISSUE?? Cant use ALA for it ... not yelling at you just trying to

>draw attention to the main question.

Well, I wonder if you could use ALA and zinc. I don't know if the zinc

is " enough " to make it " safe " (or at least not wildly risky). This seems

like at least worth thinking about. Perhaps Andy will chime in. I know

my copper level went down (slightly) while I was using ALA and zinc.

And I am VERY flakey about taking pills (took the zinc < 1/2 the time

I would guess.) My copper wasn't super high-- more like high normal.

Went down though, while using ALA only, and zinc....

Not sure what you are referring to with " ALA cannot be used until the

copper and other metals are way down. " I'm not aware of any other besides

copper that is an issue with ALA use.

I think I would want to get Andy to comment on the copper issue

and also start zinc immediately.

Perhaps, start low dose of ALA for a few rounds, while taking zinc

too, and then get copper retested (fairly soon)??

This might be a case for using ALA and zinc and testing often for

a while. Assuming the cost of tests is not prohibitive.

I suppose the reason that seems reasonable to me is that my copper went

down, so this possibility seems, um, well, possible. But I really

don't know if my results are " typical " , so I can't say if this is

a " good " idea.

>second kid, mother is just getting hip to the idea that here child is sick

>and not mentally ill. So, basically this child has had no assistance in the

>way of detoxification. Amalgams are scheduled to come out October 30. In the

>mean time. He is making holes in the walls of his house with his head. He is

>only six years old 45lbs. Very combative. Mom tells me he plays at the

>playground all day where about six weeks ago they filled the ground with

>those " bark chips. " I thought I read on this list that wood can be a high

>arsenic toxin...

Yep-- you got it right, it is arsenic that is the issue with any sort

of treated ( " weatherized " ) wood. I don't know if ALL the chips have

arsenic, but it is arsenic that is the suspect.

I'm sorry that I don't know what to suggest. Other than vitamin C,

drinking lots of water, and saunas. And I'm not sure how much those

will help. And looking for another playground

Also note that use of ALA within 3 months of amalgam replacement is

considered iffy/risky. (I did it but then I didn't know that at the

time!)

Wish I knew what else to suggest!

Moria

October 22, 2001

Judy,

Even though DMSA is not supposed to pull out arsenic, we found in our case

that it did. We did the four-hour dosing.

I think a big issue here is getting that kid away from the playground chips!

We have a porch covered in green-treated lumber (which is loaded with

arsenic) so we had to make sure we got that sealed well, and hopefully next

year, replaced.

Barb

Re: [ ] PLEASE Arsinic removal instruction

>Moria, Vicki, and others, a note first. Neither of the children I am

writing

>about are mine. I do not have their labs handy so I have to judge by the

time

>spent with the kids and what the mothers are sharing with me.

>Kid one is the living image of Andy's' book on arsenic toxicity. Agonizing

>appearance unable to stay in one place. acidic foods. This child will drink

>tobasco, Soy sauce. taps his palms and fingers incessantly. At times he

seems

>like he is being tormented. I don't have the book now so I cannot remember

>the rest of the matching symptoms. I am sure this is his immediate problem.

>He has no amalgams and had begun celation. Problem is he has high copper

and

>tin, and, off the chart Mercury. Now the understanding is ALA cannot be

used

>until the copper and other metals are way down. SO HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE

>ARSENIC ISSUE?? Cant use ALA for it ... not yelling at you just trying to

>draw attention to the main question.

>second kid, mother is just getting hip to the idea that here child is sick

>and not mentally ill. So, basically this child has had no assistance in the

>way of detoxification. Amalgams are scheduled to come out October 30. In

the

>mean time. He is making holes in the walls of his house with his head. He

is

>only six years old 45lbs. Very combative. Mom tells me he plays at the

>playground all day where about six weeks ago they filled the ground with

>those " bark chips. " I thought I read on this list that wood can be a high

>arsenic toxin...

>The aggressive head banging we are seeing started about four weeks ago. He

is

>in a bad way.

>Thanks for your responses so far,

>Judy

>

>=======================================================

>

October 22, 2001

In a message dated 10/21/01 11:08:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

moriam@... writes:

<<

Stating the obvious here: these mom's are very lucky to have you

hanging around trying to figure this stuff out and help them. >>

Yes I am very very blessed to have Judy in my life. I believe God sends

us all a guardian angel, she is mine. She cares alot about my son

Dominic and all autistic children who are suffering. Thanks for your

help in trying to figure out the arsenic/copper problem. I do not want

to use ALA alone, this will cross the blood brain barrier and allow

some more of these toxic metals in the brain. I do not need that to

happen. I have been giving my son zinc regularly for over l year, along

with many other supplements. I had all of his amalgam removed last

december and started DMSA alone for several months before adding in

the ALA ever since adding in the ALA it seems as though his behavior

stimms and such have worsened. His hair analysis has always showed

high copper 98% arsenic 68% in the blood. I did a urine challenge test

showed his mercury level at 12. I just don't know which way to go with

out the help of a really good Dr. which I obviously don't have. To make

a long story short, Judy and I have been trying to figure my son out for

along time now. I might add he also has yeast problems, I am attempting

to start the GF/CF diet, and watching his sugar not having much luck

in the sugar area. It is very difficult because he is very use to eating cer-

tain things. We are talking about a 10 year old child he is no baby he

will attack to get something sweet if you try and keep it from him. Anyway,

I hope this gives you alittle better picture of whats happen with

Dominic. any one with any help, please let me know. Thanks and God

Bless everyone who is dealing with all of this we need Gods wisdom and

lots of it.

October 22, 2001

, what is the dosage of ALA and DMSA that Dominic is getting??? The

ALA can cause

this behavior stuff - if the dosage is too high for him....have you tried

lowering it a little?

Aly