Andy-supplements during chelation

[Guest guest]

I've searched a lot of Andy's previous lists on this and know that we need to

given the water solvable ones spaced out over the course of the day, which

we've been doing for months, and I know he recommends milk thistle, vit.c and

e. But I'm wondering what amounts he's recommends. Are they just the

recommended daily amounts or a mega dose? My twins are on a multivitamin

from Kirkman's with lots of B's (mega-doses) and I'm debating it's use

further since we took them to a pediatric GI and had work-ups done. They

really are hounding me over their GFCF diets, supplements, etc. They said we

were making them both toxic and that was probably the reason they needed

chelation. They also said they felt that the severe diet restrictions I

placed on them were probably causing a lot of their GI problems and autistic

behaviors. This was at the Texas Children's Hospital and it tool us 3 months

to see this group of specialists. I'm really beating my head up against the

wall with all this and trying to find a dr. who will be supportive off what

we're doing. Our DAN Dr. recommended the diets (which to me, have helped in

huge ways), and he said to use the Nu-Thera vitamins and calcium. But the

other group literally accused me of making them sick and are reporting it

back to our pediatrician. Donna

[Guest guest]

Donna,

get rid of anyone who treats you in this way. You are not making your kids

sick. It is so important to remember , If the doc dont support you, get out!!

Dont take on toomany battles.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I believe the DAN Dr. who prescribed some of this stuff has helped us,

he has also stated to me numerous times that Triston and 's problems

are much more than he anticipated, it's over his head and that I needed to

seek more knowledgeable doctors via the children's hospital. Same thing our

'beginning to be supportive' pediatrician said. Our current DAN doctor is a

psychiatrist- we went to him in the beginning basically to order an organic

acids tests for yeast and bacteria. I know some of the stuff we're giving

the twins is right on money, but I also know we're possibly missing some

other big factors. Both seem to have issues with phenols- or I should say

chocolate, apples, bananas, cranberry, etc. But they have never responded to

Epsom salt baths. I talked with the doctor Friday who's " helping " us with

chelation about ordering the plasma cystiene test on them, but she was

clueless! I'm also confused about the Nu-thera vitamins we use with P5P

since some people have recently stated that it can cause problems with

children intolerant of phenols. I had no clue on that one, but am planning

to maybe back off them a couple of weeks and just use a more basic vitamin of

some sort. I found a post last night about Andy's supplement suggestions

that will help a lot and we have so far done two rounds of DMSA using Andy's

guidelines and we've seen no bad effects, only improvements. My daughter had

a bit of a red, non itching rash on her stomach that has gone away. I guess

I'm just questioning a lot of my actions like seeing a lot of new doctors and

specialists over the last 5 years and seeing how few we've continued to use.

Every now and then I ask myself 'is it really them or us?' that's not

helping. I went over a year just doing the conventional therapies with the

kids after extensive genetics & neurological workups, etc., doing everything

I could with not one milestone achieved and now I'm frantically trying to

make up for all my mistakes. You guys may have to put up with me constantly

asking silly things like " how much taurine? what the bottle says or

something else?!?! " I am at least learning how to search the archives (duh!)

and I'm printing lots of stuff out that is relevant to my twins. I compile

all the info in notebooks and that way I have it handy all the time. It's

great to study at times like those 10 minutes your waiting in the car line at

school to pick up kids. I also don't have to fight my hubby for the PC at

night! This list and a couple of others have been my life line on many

occasions for information. Information that is slowly helping us get our

twins back. I can't thank everyone enough for the support and guidance.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Thanks again! It will probably take me a week to get it figured out

correctly but we'll get there! We need to make an official file for this

stuff (duh!) I'm sure there's probably one already out there- I just haven't

put my fingers on it yet! My husband ordered Andy's book yesterday,

unfortunately Amazon reported it would be two weeks before we got it. I hope

it has lots of stuff that will be relevant to kidos. Donna

[Guest guest]

Hello Donna:

I've kept a copy of a post that Andy responded to earlier. Here it is,

hope it answers your questions.

> Andy,

> I ordered your book today. In the meantime, here is what I have

> gleaned out of the archives. Please comment/correct/add to make it

> as accurate as possible. Thanks!

>

> Zinc - not sure dosage per pound, spread throughout day

1/4 to 1/2 mg per pound

> Calcium - dosage?

5-20 mg per pound, not all that necessary.

> Magnesium - 10 mg per lb, spread throughout day

Yup. I suggest adjusting it up and down to just below where it starts

to cause diarrhoea.

> Vitamin C - lots , but what dosage per pound?

5-20 mg per pound per dose (not day)

>Critical to divide

> doses throughout day.

Correct.

>Don't give 1 or 2 times only.

Correct. Though this is better than zero, or 1.

> Milk Thistle - you said 1/4-1 capsule 4x per day (what does that

> equal in mg?)

20-80/

> Molybdenum - what is per pound dosage?

5-20 mcg.

> Flax oil - 1-3 TBSP per day

> Glutathione - only if plasma cysteine testing is low

>

> That's what I have so far.

Pretty good. Any B complex 4 time a day.

Vitamin A at least 5 RDA's. Personally I am fond of large doses, but

many people find this scary since none of them read 1960's medical

books any more and don't remember how dermatologists used to treat

acne (with 300,000 IU of A per day for months on end).

Vitamin E and some sort of mixed carotenoid product. Vitamin E tastes

like soybean oil and can easily be added to food. It can be given a

few times a week, it needn't be daily.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:54:58 EDT Dwpittard@... writes:

I've searched a lot of Andy's previous lists on this and know that we

need to

given the water solvable ones spaced out over the course of the day,

which

we've been doing for months, and I know he recommends milk thistle, vit.c

and

e. But I'm wondering what amounts he's recommends. Are they just the

recommended daily amounts or a mega dose? My twins are on a multivitamin

from Kirkman's with lots of B's (mega-doses) and I'm debating it's use

further since we took them to a pediatric GI and had work-ups done. They

really are hounding me over their GFCF diets, supplements, etc. They

said we

were making them both toxic and that was probably the reason they needed

chelation. They also said they felt that the severe diet restrictions I

placed on them were probably causing a lot of their GI problems and

autistic

behaviors. This was at the Texas Children's Hospital and it tool us 3

months

to see this group of specialists. I'm really beating my head up against

the

wall with all this and trying to find a dr. who will be supportive off

what

we're doing. Our DAN Dr. recommended the diets (which to me, have helped

in

huge ways), and he said to use the Nu-Thera vitamins and calcium. But

the

other group literally accused me of making them sick and are reporting it

back to our pediatrician. Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/2001 8:57:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

moriam@... writes:

>

> 2. Congrats for figuring out how to search in the archive. Here is

> a tip: the search will only search the last however-many messages

> (it is something like a month's worth). THEN, if you want to look

> farther back in the past (e.g. the " month-or-so " before that) you

> have to press NEXT. (Never mind that NEXT sounds more like the

> future than the past, it really means " farther past " in this case.)

> In order to search the last year of posts you'd need to press

> NEXT many times.

>

>

Is this how I would find some of the comments to from Dr. Holmes when she at

one time was on the list? I think you made a reference to them a few posts

earlier.

>>you don't say if the doctor ordered the plasma cysteine test

>>(even though " clueless " ). Just in case, I'll mention that you

>>can order it yourself through DLS, if you so wish. This is

>>in no way a recommendation, just saying it is an option.

No, we didn't get the test ordered. She couldn't figure out why I wanted it.

I'm going to search for Andy's recommendation- probably similar to yours and

see about ordering the kit-if one. I also asked her about checking their

hormones- something else Andy suggested and she was kind of vague on that one

too. Maybe someone will have some suggestion. Since blood is involved I

want to get as many things done at one time as possible. The Dr. did

indicate that nothing we had done so far in our ever growing mountains of

tests had a hormone level indicated. An no, I didn't have the list in the

last couple of years, only since May of this year when we went to our first

DAN conference. It was then that we started all this biological intervention

and when we started to see the changes for the better. The only thing we had

really done was the GFCF and fiengold diets, other than tons of speech and

occupational therapy. Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/2001 9:00:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

moriam@... writes:

> Thanks again! It will probably take me a week to get it figured out

> >correctly but we'll get there! We need to make an official file for this

> >stuff (duh!) I'm sure there's probably one already out there- I just

> haven't

> >put my fingers on it yet! My husband ordered Andy's book yesterday,

> >unfortunately Amazon reported it would be two weeks before we got it. I

> hope

> >it has lots of stuff that will be relevant to kidos. Donna

>

> I don't believe there is a file (or other consolidated source) for

> supplement info. It is also not covered at all in the posts I've

> put in the ANDY_INDEX so far. (There are a few posts on specific

> supplements-- not many-- and NONE with general guidelines.)

>

> If you want to make a file that would be great. Let me know if

> you need any help about how to post it, etc. (Not meaning this

> as a complaint, but I can give you a whole list of stuff that

> would be helpful that is NOT posted anywhere.)

>

> Moria

>

If my computer oriented hubby can help show me what to do and you guys can

triple check it- yes, I would be happy to do that, possibly something I can

give back in a way. Send what ever you think would help. Donna

[Guest guest]

Donna,

So do you believe the DAN doctor who gave you recommendations that

genuinely helped your child? Or the other doctors who told they

couldn't do anything for your child and that YOU were making your

child sick? Wasn't your child sick in the first place when you went

to see the DAN doctor before you started to implement his/her

recommendations???

I do hope that some day the doctors who are telling us to " stop this

nonsense " because we are hurting our children get sued for

malpractice, but I doubt it.

Rhonda, who is so tired of having to do all the research myself, and

tired of having to justify why I continue to do things that make my

sons BETTER!!

> I've searched a lot of Andy's previous lists on this and know that

we need to

> given the water solvable ones spaced out over the course of the

day, which

> we've been doing for months, and I know he recommends milk thistle,

vit.c and

> e. But I'm wondering what amounts he's recommends. Are they just

the

> recommended daily amounts or a mega dose? My twins are on a

multivitamin

> from Kirkman's with lots of B's (mega-doses) and I'm debating it's

use

> further since we took them to a pediatric GI and had work-ups

done. They

> really are hounding me over their GFCF diets, supplements, etc.

They said we

> were making them both toxic and that was probably the reason they

needed

> chelation. They also said they felt that the severe diet

restrictions I

> placed on them were probably causing a lot of their GI problems and

autistic

> behaviors. This was at the Texas Children's Hospital and it tool

us 3 months

> to see this group of specialists. I'm really beating my head up

against the

> wall with all this and trying to find a dr. who will be supportive

off what

> we're doing. Our DAN Dr. recommended the diets (which to me, have

helped in

> huge ways), and he said to use the Nu-Thera vitamins and calcium.

But the

> other group literally accused me of making them sick and are

reporting it

> back to our pediatrician. Donna

[Guest guest]

<<Donna said, in part: >>

> I guess

>I'm just questioning a lot of my actions like seeing a lot of new doctors

and

>specialists over the last 5 years and seeing how few we've continued to

use.

>Every now and then I ask myself 'is it really them or us?' that's not

>helping. I went over a year just doing the conventional therapies with the

>kids after extensive genetics & neurological workups, etc., doing everything

>I could with not one milestone achieved and now I'm frantically trying to

>make up for all my mistakes. You guys may have to put up with me constantly

>asking silly things like " how much taurine? what the bottle says or

>something else?!?! " I am at least learning how to search the archives

(duh!)

>and I'm printing lots of stuff out that is relevant to my twins. I compile

>all the info in notebooks and that way I have it handy all the time. It's

>great to study at times like those 10 minutes your waiting in the car line

at

>school to pick up kids. I also don't have to fight my hubby for the PC at

>night! This list and a couple of others have been my life line on many

>occasions for information. Information that is slowly helping us get our

>twins back. I can't thank everyone enough for the support and guidance.

>Donna

Dear Donna,

1. While I have no personal knowledge of your doctors, I think it is

a pretty safe bet that it is " not you " . In fact, you are probably

being unreasonably tolerant due to a lifetime of conditioning about

medicine and doctors and authority and so forth.

2. Congrats for figuring out how to search in the archive. Here is

a tip: the search will only search the last however-many messages

(it is something like a month's worth). THEN, if you want to look

farther back in the past (e.g. the " month-or-so " before that) you

have to press NEXT. (Never mind that NEXT sounds more like the

future than the past, it really means " farther past " in this case.)

In order to search the last year of posts you'd need to press

NEXT many times.

3. If you'll excuse a personal comment, I don't think you made any

mistakes. You probably hadn't found this list yet--- or others

like it. When you are being flooded with info from the doctors

and trying to digest it, it doesn't leave much time for finding

other viewpoints. [i'll say again that I think allopahic medicine

is okay and useful for some things, but IS A SPECIALTY from my point

of view. It is ONE pretty narrow set of options. End.] I also

don't notice any dumb questions asked on the list.

4. you don't say if the doctor ordered the plasma cysteine test

(even though " clueless " ). Just in case, I'll mention that you

can order it yourself through DLS, if you so wish. This is

in no way a recommendation, just saying it is an option.

best,

Moria

[Guest guest]

>Thanks again! It will probably take me a week to get it figured out

>correctly but we'll get there! We need to make an official file for this

>stuff (duh!) I'm sure there's probably one already out there- I just

haven't

>put my fingers on it yet! My husband ordered Andy's book yesterday,

>unfortunately Amazon reported it would be two weeks before we got it. I

hope

>it has lots of stuff that will be relevant to kidos. Donna

I don't believe there is a file (or other consolidated source) for

supplement info. It is also not covered at all in the posts I've

put in the ANDY_INDEX so far. (There are a few posts on specific

supplements-- not many-- and NONE with general guidelines.)

If you want to make a file that would be great. Let me know if

you need any help about how to post it, etc. (Not meaning this

as a complaint, but I can give you a whole list of stuff that

would be helpful that is NOT posted anywhere.)

Moria