Guest guest Posted November 22, 1998 Report Share Posted November 22, 1998 Not an alcoholic? denial is not a river in ___________? stinking thinkin'? why don't you fake til you make it? Is your disease talking? sorry...I couldn't resist...do you detect a little cynicism and or anger? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 1998 Report Share Posted November 22, 1998 Hi Lawrence Welcome to the list. Its a good thing you started taking classes and got out when you did. Its a pretty well-known story among some of us that once we started getting involved with the real world, the 12-step world began to show up more clearly as what it is: a fairly useless religion, full of misinformed or sick people doling old wives tales to each other. Keep staying away. It squirts! __________________________________________________ > Hello everyone, > > My name is Lawrence and I'm _not_ an alcoholic. I subscribed to this > list several weeks ago and have since read with interest all of the > posts. Close to 4 1/2 years ago I was having a problem with > recreational drugs and admitted myself to a hospital treatment program > in a desperate attempt to get help before I lost my job and everything > else. While in the hospital I was indoctrinated to 12-step ideology > and told I was a drug addict and alcoholic (even though my drug of > choice wasn't even alcohol), and that I'd never be able to drink or > take a drug again or else I'd end up dead, in jail, or in a mental > institution. 12-step meeting attendance was required. It didn't > really matter what the program was, as long as it was 12-step based. > During the treatment program, no other option for recovery was every > mentioned. In fact, I was told that XA and it's spiritual program was > the only option that could help me. Looking back, I feel that was > nothing less than medical malpractice. I sought and paid for medical > treatment instead was shame and guilt-based religious training that > left me with depression due to no feeling of self-worth. This is the > best that modern medicine and psychology has to offer--your powerless > now turn you life over to a Higher Power and tell everyone else you > can find to do the same? Fortunately, I was able to get out. I > started taking some classes last summer that made me unavailable to > attend my usual meetings. When I did go to meetings, I found that > people treated me differently because I hadn't been going to as many > meetings as they thought I should. I started to realize I didn't like > these people or these meetings, and I started staying away even more. > And nothing bad happened to me. I didn't start drinking > alcoholically; I didn't go back to using drugs. I began researching > recovery from drug problems and found that there were other options > and that most people quit harmful behaviors without attending any type > of group. I am doing quite well without AA and NA; in fact, I'm doing > much better than before, and I realized I don't have a disease and > that I don't have to label myself a drug addict and an alcoholic. > What a liberating idea. I don't believe that the people I met in AA > were of evil intentions; I think they were only practicing what they > believed to be true. I do think AA has helped many people quit > drinking, just as many other people's lives have been enhanced by > their church attendance and religious beliefs. I do think the medical > treatment community has an obligation to employ other, scientific > options for recovery from drug and alcohol abuse, and that the > indoctrination into spiritual based 12-step programs under the guise > of modern medicine must end. I apologize for the length of this post. > > Lawrence > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 1998 Report Share Posted November 23, 1998 In a message dated 11/22/98 6:30:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, lawrence_mc@... writes: > I do think the medical > treatment community has an obligation to employ other, scientific > options for recovery from drug and alcohol abuse, and that the > indoctrination into spiritual based 12-step programs under the guise > of modern medicine must end. I apologize for the length of this post. > > Lawrence No need to apologize. It's words such as these that warm my heart. Welcome. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 1998 Report Share Posted November 23, 1998 Lawrence Mc - - Your story contains much that is typical. Many persons forced into " treatment, " of course, have even less of an alcohol or drug use problem than you did. Alcohol and drug use are not the focus of alcohol and drug " treatment. " That the " treatment " personnel had one over-riding interest - indoctrinating you with the political view that you were " powerless " over your life, and that you and other average people must turn over all decision making to " higher powers " - is, of course, the universal function of these concentration camps, and explains why BILLIONS of dollars are being spent each year forcing people into them. I have two questions for you. One, who is allocating the money, where is the funding coming from? And, two, as this ideology is foisted upon the American population - and it IS being successfully ingrained, from grammar school on up - then who suffers, who benefits? If you reflect on these questions, I think you will arrive at the answer that common people stand to suffer the loss of social and economic power over their own lives, and that a handful of corporate and government power brokers are both allocating the funding and stand to benefit from the imposition of this totalitarian worldview upon the American masses. --------- > > To: 12-step-freeegroups > Subject: New to list > Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 8:30 AM > > > Hello everyone, > > My name is Lawrence and I'm _not_ an alcoholic. I subscribed to this > list several weeks ago and have since read with interest all of the > posts. Close to 4 1/2 years ago I was having a problem with > recreational drugs and admitted myself to a hospital treatment program > in a desperate attempt to get help before I lost my job and everything > else. While in the hospital I was indoctrinated to 12-step ideology > and told I was a drug addict and alcoholic (even though my drug of > choice wasn't even alcohol), and that I'd never be able to drink or > take a drug again or else I'd end up dead, in jail, or in a mental > institution. 12-step meeting attendance was required. It didn't > really matter what the program was, as long as it was 12-step based. > During the treatment program, no other option for recovery was every > mentioned. In fact, I was told that XA and it's spiritual program was > the only option that could help me. Looking back, I feel that was > nothing less than medical malpractice. I sought and paid for medical > treatment instead was shame and guilt-based religious training that > left me with depression due to no feeling of self-worth. This is the > best that modern medicine and psychology has to offer--your powerless > now turn you life over to a Higher Power and tell everyone else you > can find to do the same? Fortunately, I was able to get out. I > started taking some classes last summer that made me unavailable to > attend my usual meetings. When I did go to meetings, I found that > people treated me differently because I hadn't been going to as many > meetings as they thought I should. I started to realize I didn't like > these people or these meetings, and I started staying away even more. > And nothing bad happened to me. I didn't start drinking > alcoholically; I didn't go back to using drugs. I began researching > recovery from drug problems and found that there were other options > and that most people quit harmful behaviors without attending any type > of group. I am doing quite well without AA and NA; in fact, I'm doing > much better than before, and I realized I don't have a disease and > that I don't have to label myself a drug addict and an alcoholic. > What a liberating idea. I don't believe that the people I met in AA > were of evil intentions; I think they were only practicing what they > believed to be true. I do think AA has helped many people quit > drinking, just as many other people's lives have been enhanced by > their church attendance and religious beliefs. I do think the medical > treatment community has an obligation to employ other, scientific > options for recovery from drug and alcohol abuse, and that the > indoctrination into spiritual based 12-step programs under the guise > of modern medicine must end. I apologize for the length of this post. > > Lawrence > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 1998 Report Share Posted November 24, 1998 The drug and alcohol treatment program that I attended was 80% paid for by the insurance company that I had at the time. Interestingly, for the remaining 20% I received bills for several months and then they stopped and no further attempt to collect was ever made. I know that the hospital I went too was closed and merged with another one, and I think it eventually closed too. Note that it was only 5 years ago that I went to treatment. The insurance company also paid for a year of bi-monthly sessions with a psychologist specializing in 12-step theology. Your comment about the indoctrination beginning in grammar school brings back memories too. I remember from the time I was in elementary school learning that alcoholism was a disease. I also remember having the intelligence to question that at the age of 12, realizing that it was in no way related to a true disease such as cancer, diabetes, etc. Why at 27 when I was in treatment I didn't question it, I don't know. I just know that I was so desperate to quit ruining my life through drug abuse that I was manipulated into believing what was shoved down my throat. --- E Diener wrote: > > Lawrence Mc - - Your story contains much that is typical. Many persons > forced into " treatment, " of course, have even less of an alcohol or drug > use problem than you did. Alcohol and drug use are not the focus of > alcohol and drug " treatment. " That the " treatment " personnel had one > over-riding interest - indoctrinating you with the political view that you > were " powerless " over your life, and that you and other average people must > turn over all decision making to " higher powers " - is, of course, the > universal function of these concentration camps, and explains why BILLIONS > of dollars are being spent each year forcing people into them. I have two > questions for you. One, who is allocating the money, where is the funding > coming from? And, two, as this ideology is foisted upon the American > population - and it IS being successfully ingrained, from grammar school on > up - then who suffers, who benefits? If you reflect on these questions, I > think you will arrive at the answer that common people stand to suffer the > loss of social and economic power over their own lives, and that a handful > of corporate and government power brokers are both allocating the funding > and stand to benefit from the imposition of this totalitarian worldview > upon the American masses. --------- > > > > To: 12-step-freeegroups > > Subject: New to list > > Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 8:30 AM > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > My name is Lawrence and I'm _not_ an alcoholic. I subscribed to this > > list several weeks ago and have since read with interest all of the > > posts. Close to 4 1/2 years ago I was having a problem with > > recreational drugs and admitted myself to a hospital treatment program > > in a desperate attempt to get help before I lost my job and everything > > else. While in the hospital I was indoctrinated to 12-step ideology > > and told I was a drug addict and alcoholic (even though my drug of > > choice wasn't even alcohol), and that I'd never be able to drink or > > take a drug again or else I'd end up dead, in jail, or in a mental > > institution. 12-step meeting attendance was required. It didn't > > really matter what the program was, as long as it was 12-step based. > > During the treatment program, no other option for recovery was every > > mentioned. In fact, I was told that XA and it's spiritual program was > > the only option that could help me. Looking back, I feel that was > > nothing less than medical malpractice. I sought and paid for medical > > treatment instead was shame and guilt-based religious training that > > left me with depression due to no feeling of self-worth. This is the > > best that modern medicine and psychology has to offer--your powerless > > now turn you life over to a Higher Power and tell everyone else you > > can find to do the same? Fortunately, I was able to get out. I > > started taking some classes last summer that made me unavailable to > > attend my usual meetings. When I did go to meetings, I found that > > people treated me differently because I hadn't been going to as many > > meetings as they thought I should. I started to realize I didn't like > > these people or these meetings, and I started staying away even more. > > And nothing bad happened to me. I didn't start drinking > > alcoholically; I didn't go back to using drugs. I began researching > > recovery from drug problems and found that there were other options > > and that most people quit harmful behaviors without attending any type > > of group. I am doing quite well without AA and NA; in fact, I'm doing > > much better than before, and I realized I don't have a disease and > > that I don't have to label myself a drug addict and an alcoholic. > > What a liberating idea. I don't believe that the people I met in AA > > were of evil intentions; I think they were only practicing what they > > believed to be true. I do think AA has helped many people quit > > drinking, just as many other people's lives have been enhanced by > > their church attendance and religious beliefs. I do think the medical > > treatment community has an obligation to employ other, scientific > > options for recovery from drug and alcohol abuse, and that the > > indoctrination into spiritual based 12-step programs under the guise > > of modern medicine must end. I apologize for the length of this post. > > > > Lawrence > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Dear Lori, I wanted to say " Hi! " and thank you for joining the group. I hope you get a lot from it. There are some pg ladies here, with BU. Congratulations on your daughter, too. I'm so glad you were able to have her without too many problems. You had an HSG and it didn't show anything abnormal? Now that is strange. If you realy want to, you can go back and look at the films and the report . . . I know sometimes docs just don't tell a patient the whole story. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 That's what I think happened. The dr. who did the hsg talked to my husband after the surgery but I never talked to him after it. I've thought about requesting my medical record to see what's in there, but I think I'll wait until I talk with the ob/gyn in April. >You had an HSG and it didn't show anything abnormal? Now that is >strange. If you realy want to, you can go back and look at the films >and the report . . . I know sometimes docs just don't tell a patient >the whole story. > >Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2001 Report Share Posted March 10, 2001 Hi, Lori. It's nice to meet you! I'm Ula, age 29 and 13 weeks into my first pregnancy. I have a bicornuate uterus, which we found out about at 8 weeks when I had heavy bleeding and they did a laparoscopy thinking it was due to an ectopic pregnancy. I'm excited to hear that you made it to 39 weeks. From what I've been told, the risk of premature birth is pretty high with a bicornuate uterus. My baby and I have been having lots of serious talks about staying head-down and making it to at least 36 weeks. I hope he/she is listening. :-) I hope you get the info you need from your doctor and that you will enjoy this group! Ula --- mom2gina@... wrote: > I am amazed and happy to find this group! Let me > introduce myself. My name is Lori, I'm 28. I'm > married and have one daughter born 2/1/00. > > In November 98 I had a laparoscopy done for > endometriosis. The dr. had also done an HSG and > told us my tubes were open. I'm not sure why he did > not notice any abnormality. > > My daughter was my first pregnancy. When I was > about 12 wks pg I had some bleeding and was put on > bedrest for a few days due to a tear in the placenta > cuz it was lying near the cervix. The ultrasound > tech nor my dr. mentioned anything about a uterine > abnormality. At 39 weeks I had a csection becuz my > daughter was breech and they couldn't get her to > turn via external version. I heard the dr. say I > had a bicornuate uterus which is why she couldn't > turn. That's the last I've heard of it. I asked my > family practioner about it but he didn't tell me > much. I have a yearly checkup scheduled in April > with the Ob/Gyn that did my csection and I plan to > ask him about it. > > It is neat to find this group and I look forward to > getting to know you all and learning more about this > stuff. > > Lori > > _________________________________________________________________ > iVillage.com: Solutions for Your Life > Check out the most exciting women's community on the > Web > http://www.ivillage.com > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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