Re: Drinking AA Members

[Guest guest]

I have -- but you only knew it after the fact, after they confessed, or went

into treatment or something. I also believe that for every drinking member who

confessed, there were probably many more who didn't.

One of the most bizarre stories I heard was about a man who was drinking, but at

the same time giving leads everywhere, according to the woman who lived with

him, was much admired, and he was also leading a double life, with another woman

he lived with in another town!

Kudos to the woman he lived with for not getting drunk over it. She was one of

the most cynical people I've ever known, however.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>I've often wondered how many of the members I used to sit with were secretly

drinking regularly or sporadically or whatever but never spoke of having their

slips and relapses and continued to attend the meetings regularly and envision

themselves as AA guru's. Anyone run into these types at their meetings?

>

>Jan

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jan-

The Alano club in Salt Lake City is a haven for those who drink / drug and

continue to preach " sobriety "

1 case in point- some one I know got busted for script fraud the second

time- 1st bust- 50 counts. Second time, failed a urinalysis, the law kept an

eye on him and he got bagged. This time for check forgery in excess of 10K,

script fraud again, forgery on a truck loan. But this person got up in a

meeting 2 months ago and got his 2 year chip. All this and going to a step

study group. His tactics for a romp in the sack with a new female in the

program- " Can I help you with this???- I got some answeres that you will

need. " Etc.. Etc.. And he said to me tht it has been over 2 years since he

used any drugs/alcohol, while his eyes were bleeding with slurred speach.

This person is a real pretty boy, still drives his new truck and is still at

the club being a preditor.

And this piece of shit would always want me to help him find a computer for

his business. Fuck me sideways!!!! The club out here has become a haven for

the criminal element and sociapaths (sp?). I got sick of hearing how 1 kid

would brag about being charged with 1 count armed robbery and 2 counts

attempted murder. And his fine upstanding daddy is a cop in this area.

Yeh- there is many out here who still use/drink and preach the AA dogma.

Bob

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jan;

Sure have. I was one when I worked in a treatment center in the

late 60's. Admitting the drunk would have ended my job so I kept it

to myself. I didn't go to AA meetings during that time though.

With AA shame basics, it's a wonder anyone cops out. They

pressure folks so much that the pain of the lie of omission may be

less than facing the truth, which normally would not be the case.

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[Guest guest]

I used to have a recurring dream when I was in the program: I would

show up at a church, late at night, and all my AA buddies would be

drinking keg beer. When they saw my shocked expression, they would

laugh and say, " oh you silly thing! Didn't you know we're allowed to

drink on weekends? You didn't think we really meant NEVER, did you? "

--- Kayleigh S wrote:

> I have -- but you only knew it after the fact, after

> they confessed, or went into treatment or something.

> I also believe that for every drinking member who

> confessed, there were probably many more who didn't.

>

> One of the most bizarre stories I heard was about a

> man who was drinking, but at the same time giving

> leads everywhere, according to the woman who lived

> with him, was much admired, and he was also leading

> a double life, with another woman he lived with in

> another town!

>

> Kudos to the woman he lived with for not getting

> drunk over it. She was one of the most cynical

> people I've ever known, however.

>

> ---

> Kayleigh

>

> Zz

> zZ

> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>

>

>

>

> >I've often wondered how many of the members I used

> to sit with were secretly drinking regularly or

> sporadically or whatever but never spoke of having

> their slips and relapses and continued to attend the

> meetings regularly and envision themselves as AA

> guru's. Anyone run into these types at their

> meetings?

> >

> >Jan

> >

> >

> >

>

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> communications

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> >

> >

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

Actually, I have several friends like that. They have resigned themselves to

regular relapses and regular meeting attendance. They don't masquerade as AA

gurus though.

Apple

> I've often wondered how many of the members I used to sit with were secretly

drinking regularly or sporadically or whatever but never spoke of having their

slips and relapses and continued to attend the meetings regularly and envision

themselves as AA guru's. Anyone run into these types at their meetings?

>

> Jan

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

---

>I've often wondered how many of the members I used to sit with were secretly

drinking regularly or sporadically or whatever but never spoke of having their

slips and relapses and continued to attend the meetings regularly and envision

themselves as AA guru's. Anyone run into these types at their meetings?

>

------------------------------

Well, the whole idea of " slips " and " relapses " is Steptalk... Numerous

studies have shown that not only is moderate drinking possible for many former

problem drinkers, but it is a common occurrence following " treatment " that has

total abstinence as a goal. Now, AA is both abstinence-oriented and

shame-based, so it would be no surprise that AA members who drink sporadically

(and not abusively) would strive to keep it secret from other steppers,

believing themselves to have " relapsed " into their " disease " by straying from

" H.P. " 's guidance, when all they did was have a drink or two!

I remember when I was in " treatment " a woman in the group tearfully

confessed to have had a bottle of Bud the night before. Personally I thought

she should have been praised for having displayed the self-control of stopping

after one beer. But of course the counselor demanded that she " search her soul "

and explain to the rest of the group what caused her " relapse " . It was

sickening. The woman was ground into the floor like a cigarette butt. The

consensus, of course, was that she hadn't been going to enough meetings.

Here is an article from Stanton Peele's website showing that both Project

MATCH and the NLAES study demonstrate that moderate drinking is a frequent

outcome of abstinence-oriented treatment, and that gov't researchers consider

moderate drinkers to be " treatment successes " , while continuing to push

12-step/ " disease " treatment with its notions of " a drink is a relapse " :

http://www.peele.net/lib/niaaa.html

Other articles of interest:

http://www.peele.net/lib/cdvsabs.html

http://www.peele.net/lib/glass.html

~Rita

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[Guest guest]

Hi Rita;

I don't believe it's real good to accept drinking a beer, as a

success, if my goal is total abstinence.

However, in your story, who defined the goal? If it was not Ms X's

goal to have total abstinence, but rather moderation, she was doing

great!

Hell of it is that AA tries to define everyone's goals, with a one size

fits all approach. If I don't fit in their round hole, they'll pound

relentlessly on all my corners and crannies until I do. If all the

pounding they can dish out, doesn't make me round they call me

incorrigible or untreatable.

Both those terms have been liberally applied to me. Many of the

folks who applied them are now drinking and/or using today.

Maybe I just frustrated them that much. Only kidding. Only AA's

believe they wield that kind of power over others. My AA sponsor

did get drunk a short time after I quit AA. He used to come out to

our house and blame himself for my leaving AA. It pissed me off

that he believed I could not just quit AA, but it had to be him

making the decision for me. I never told him that because I like the

guy. He and I were pals for a long time. Now he's in horrible

shape and I can't even convince him to go to a four day medical

detox at his local hospital. He has problems AA can't reach, even

though he was sober 9 years when he started drinking.

Glad I posted some humor this morning cause the gloom and

doom seems to be getting to me, no idea why with all these fun

memories 8-)

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[Guest guest]

Hi Rita;

Aren't treatments just as phony and fake as AA ? Here's an

experience of mine that has to do with conduct.

During an inpatient treatment, I wasn't going outside the buildings,

even though it was allowed. My evening counsellor started getting

on me about it and finally asked " Are you treating this place as if

you were doing time? " I dodged the question and replied, " In four

days I can go out that door and go where I CHOOSE, not just the

hospital grounds and I don't like the feeling of being on a leash "

He took that as confirmation and made it a treatment assignment

that I go outside with two or more other people the next day. The

next day I went outside with two guys and a woman. The second

we were out of site, one guy and the woman split and the other guy

went to meet his wife somewhere. All this of course against the

rules. " Meet you at the flower bed, don't go in without us " One

hour was supposed to be the limit. When an hour and a half

yielded no sight of them, I went in. Nothing was said as I signed in

but the next morning I was called on the carpet for the whole mess.

I made a BIG issue out of being blamed for other folk's conduct

with the administrator of the project and they finally got up off of me.

What I did was threaten to get medicaid to sue them for trying to

collect the bill after fraudulently booting me, which they were

threatening to do. That would give me access to the sign in sheet

to see how many times these folks had pulled this when I wasn't

with them. The evening counsellor, to his credit, looked at the sign

in sheet and apologized to me. But he didn't apologize for me

catching the blame, he apologized for putting me in that position. I

had a cakewalk through the last two days. They wanted me out of

there.

What I'm getting at is they use " Take care of yourself " and " Am I

my brother's keeper " , as they wish, whimsically they change the

rules as it suits whatever purpose they have in mind.

Had I been dumped on for being a half hour late, I would have shut

up and taken it. Getting blamed for folks running off to do some

dope and sex, wasn't in my job description. My answer was " Do I

look like a policeman, there's no badge in my wallet? " I didn't see

these folks do anything, but they snitched on themselves trying to

snitch on me.

It seems a small thing, but when I was in that place I expected the

rules to be administered even handedly. I took more flak over them

doing some grass, than they did. Far as I know, the couple is still

using and that incident was in 1989. The other fella' I haven't seen

since treatment.

One given with abusive parents is they change the rules as it suits

them. A conduct that is acceptable today will get you beaten

tomorrow. Living on this knife edge for many years, I broke away,

only to discover the same thing in AA. I got beat up on for

someone elses conduct and that sucks. That incident was the

beginning of my falling out with all things AA. The process would

find its' conclusion two years later in 91.

Funny how important changes in my life have turned on seemingly

insignificant events. I guess there does have to be a " Last Straw "

after all.

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