Guest guest Posted June 6, 1999 Report Share Posted June 6, 1999 i think part of the reason for this is A.A. is more concerned with living the Program, than anything at all to do with sobriety. hell, the Program is itself is considered to be the one true Sobriety. After all, in the A.A. perspective we all would be considered " dry drunks " , not drinking: yes, sober: no dave D Hall wrote: > > Hi Sheri; > > It does seem strange at first blush, that when life deals us a blow, > AA is concerned only that less time will be devoted to them. > Seems a very unsympathetic and selfish view for a support group. > But should we realistically expect more from them? After all they > are just like the bunch we drank with, unchanged except in the use > of alcohol. They have replaced the alcohol with phrases from a > book, but little or nothing from living. Going to two meetings a day > and talking about those two hours for the other 22, means I don't > have to solve any problems or live through them, just talk about > them. > > If you worked in an office of 10 people, 2 would have asked what > they could do to help and meant it. However, those folks would be > folks with living experience and empathy. They would do it out of > concern for your well being. AA shows concern by putting in fear > or raising self doubt. A very sick microcosm of cult society. > > Make mine vanilla. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > eGroups Spotlight: > " Rat and Mouse Breeders for Excellence " - Discuss the best way > to raise a rat of " excellent temperament " and " sturdy good health " . > http://clickhere./click/118 > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Hi Apple; You mentioned that AA had some good points, one of which was meeting and sharing feelings. Where does that happen? Most AA groups I went to had a card with guidlines on what you could talk about. One of those guidelines would usually be: " We talk about the problem of Alcoholism, NOT the problems of the alcoholic! " This guideline was enforced and conversation limited mostly to stepspeak. I remember one guy that read the days page from the twenty four hour book for his turn to speak. That's all I ever heard from him. Oh, I live in Iowa, but have run into that Guideline in Nebraska, Illinois, New Mexico and Arizona also. Oh the unresolved issues left by moral inventories. You hit me on the head. After 30 years of that junk, I went to a psychologist and discovered I had PTSD and my AA experience had aggrivated the condition. I resisted the idea at first that childhood abuse could drive me to drink at age 52, but inAA I stayed drunk and with therapy for the Post Trauma Stress Disorder, I stayed sober. During my time in AA I usually stayed sober three months at a time. I once managed 11 months by eating Antibuse. I've stayed sober now since October 20, 1990 with treatment for the PTSD. Oh, the symptoms of PTSD have been gone now for over 7 years and they were a bitch, trust me on that. Pain so bad I'd pass out, and when I'd mention it in AA, I'd hear about the " Pity Pot " a lot, so I kept quiet. If you take a hard look at the emotional cripples AA leaves in its' wake, I'm not convinced there is much good to be said about it. Till later, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Hi : I know of some meetings where they barely talk about alcohol. The people really meet each other for support, and they toss in the word alcohol ever once in a while, only to make it legit. Also, there do exist atheist meetings, which is a scream since the whole program is religious in nature. My question is this... now that there ARE books out about AA, now that the problems have been made public, will people have a safer time in the rooms? AA is a HUGE infrastructure. Simply huge. It has gained so much momentum that alternative groups have trouble surviving. The people I know who seem to thrive in AA don't take the program portion of it seriously. They look on with a sort of distant amusement. I for one don't find as much humor in it because I did take it seriously, and I started to feel worse from it. The language of the program undermined my self-confidence and self-esteem and I have a problem co-signing bullshit, especially when it's being spoon-fed to vulnerable people. But I'll tell ya, it's lonely out here in anti-AA land... I feel like Copernicus as several of my AA friends have stopped talking to me " Who does she think she is saying the world is round! " . I've contacted the SMART recovery people to see if I can contribute to their group. But so far no dice. I'm going to keep trying. Apple > You mentioned that AA had some good points, one of which was > meeting and sharing feelings. > > Where does that happen? Most AA groups I went to had a card > with guidlines on what you could talk about. One of those > guidelines would usually be: " We talk about the problem of > Alcoholism, NOT the problems of the alcoholic! " This guideline > was enforced and conversation limited mostly to stepspeak. I > remember one guy that read the days page from the twenty four > hour book for his turn to speak. That's all I ever heard from him. > > Oh, I live in Iowa, but have run into that Guideline in Nebraska, > Illinois, New Mexico and Arizona also. > > Oh the unresolved issues left by moral inventories. You hit me on > the head. After 30 years of that junk, I went to a psychologist and > discovered I had PTSD and my AA experience had aggrivated the > condition. > > I resisted the idea at first that childhood abuse could drive me to > drink at age 52, but inAA I stayed drunk and with therapy for the > Post Trauma Stress Disorder, I stayed sober. During my time in > AA I usually stayed sober three months at a time. I once managed > 11 months by eating Antibuse. I've stayed sober now since > October 20, 1990 with treatment for the PTSD. Oh, the symptoms > of PTSD have been gone now for over 7 years and they were a > bitch, trust me on that. Pain so bad I'd pass out, and when I'd > mention it in AA, I'd hear about the " Pity Pot " a lot, so I kept quiet. > > If you take a hard look at the emotional cripples AA leaves in its' > wake, I'm not convinced there is much good to be said about it. > > Till later, > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 Hi Apple, Like you, I took AA seriously also. I was there to change my destructive lifestyle and since I did my heaviest drinking at home by myself, I needed to get somewhere with people and no booze around. I understood what I was there for. Putting the drinking aside has helped me learn what kind of person I am. Deep down inside, I'm not really a social butterfly. Attempting to get to every social event and be part of the American culture these days of party, party party wears me out. I don't care much anymore if I'm miss popularity and despite the pain of divorce, I'm seeing the opportunity to get back to my interests in life that I always put aside for men. However, I know you feel extremely lonely sometimes. I went through that too down in West Virginia. Small towns, clannishness and if your great grandmother wasn't buried there, you'll always be an outsider. For the most part I'm feeling so comfortable being back in my hometown. I don't know if you are living in your hometown or what. Who knows, maybe making a fresh start somewhere is the answer. But maybe not. Listen to your gut. Anyways, keep writing us and you're getting good supportive feedback from this list and I hope it's helping somehow. You probably feel like a square peg in a round hole where you are right now. Boy, do I know. One thing that I keep in mind though is that the consequences for searching for the truth is a spell (and sometimes a life) of loneliness. It's inescapable and part of the process. I've observed that following the politically correct and popularity contest way of life vears far from the truth. Jan Re: letter from a wacko Hi : I know of some meetings where they barely talk about alcohol. The people really meet each other for support, and they toss in the word alcohol ever once in a while, only to make it legit. Also, there do exist atheist meetings, which is a scream since the whole program is religious in nature. My question is this... now that there ARE books out about AA, now that the problems have been made public, will people have a safer time in the rooms? AA is a HUGE infrastructure. Simply huge. It has gained so much momentum that alternative groups have trouble surviving. The people I know who seem to thrive in AA don't take the program portion of it seriously. They look on with a sort of distant amusement. I for one don't find as much humor in it because I did take it seriously, and I started to feel worse from it. The language of the program undermined my self-confidence and self-esteem and I have a problem co-signing bullshit, especially when it's being spoon-fed to vulnerable peopl! e. But I'll tell ya, it's lonely out here in anti-AA land... I feel like Copernicus as several of my AA friends have stopped talking to me " Who does she think she is saying the world is round! " . I've contacted the SMART recovery people to see if I can contribute to their group. But so far no dice. I'm going to keep trying. Apple ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups now offers FREE email newsletters! Women.com, RollingStone, Travelocity, and more… Sign-up Now! http://clickhere./click/315 eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 1999 Report Share Posted June 9, 1999 At 02:30 AM 6/9/99 -0600, D Hall wrote: >Hi Apple; > >You mentioned that AA had some good points, one of which was >meeting and sharing feelings. > I saw that too, and my observation is that only on a superficial level is it a place to share feelings. They may actually say " It's okay to share your feelings here, " but when I saw any feeling other than gratitute (specifically for AA) or love (specifically for AA and for the still-suffering alcoholic) being expressed, it was shamed - people reacted in a way to imply " that's a bad feeling, you shouldn't have it. " Often it went like " Yea, I used to feel that way. Then I started taking the 12 steps. " Yep, there they go, talking about 'the solution' again (see my next paragraph)... >Where does that happen? Most AA groups I went to had a card >with guidlines on what you could talk about. One of those >guidelines would usually be: " We talk about the problem of >Alcoholism, NOT the problems of the alcoholic! " At the meetings I used to go to, in the spirit on one-upmanship and having the 'right' attitude at our meetings, one would respond " We don't talk about the problem - if we want to get better, we talk about the SOLUTION. " After being in various different smoking/nonsmoling meetings one evening, we talked about what our meetings were about - someone said his meeting was about love, another said, in a joking way, his meeting was about alcoholism. I said the meeting I was in was about RECOVERY. Yes, I was indeed a " part of " (as opposed to 'apart from') that fellowship. > This guideline >was enforced and conversation limited mostly to stepspeak. I >remember one guy that read the days page from the twenty four >hour book for his turn to speak. That's all I ever heard from him. Were there several others who admired 'his program' > >Oh, I live in Iowa, but have run into that Guideline in Nebraska, >Illinois, New Mexico and Arizona also. > >Oh the unresolved issues left by moral inventories. You hit me on >the head. After 30 years of that junk, I went to a psychologist and >discovered I had PTSD and my AA experience had aggrivated the >condition. > >I resisted the idea at first that childhood abuse could drive me to >drink at age 52, but inAA I stayed drunk and with therapy for the >Post Trauma Stress Disorder, I stayed sober. During my time in >AA I usually stayed sober three months at a time. I once managed >11 months by eating Antibuse. I've stayed sober now since >October 20, 1990 with treatment for the PTSD. Oh, the symptoms >of PTSD have been gone now for over 7 years and they were a >bitch, trust me on that. Pain so bad I'd pass out, and when I'd >mention it in AA, I'd hear about the " Pity Pot " a lot, so I kept quiet. You may have also heard what they say around here to mock people on their 'pity pot': " poor me, poor me, pour me a drink. " ----- <http://listen.to/benbradley> New and Improved! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 1999 Report Share Posted June 10, 1999 DITTO!!!!! I get so frustrated because my abuse happened originally as a child many many years ago. Why, why, why, would I be stil suffering from PTSD?????? And why would I still gravitate towards abusive men in the recent past???? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 1999 Report Share Posted June 10, 1999 I am now in a loving, wonderful relationship-and I keep trying to sabotage it at every turn. I am so lucky to be finally with a man who LOVES me-gray hair, wrinkles and all-but I will still try to twist things to make it wrong. And it's never been so right! I undertand your frustration-What Joe said about the POM looks like it could really benefit both of us. One of the last therapists I saw, I asked him what I was supposed to do now? I had faced my perpertrator and slayed the dragon. But all the behavior, thought and tapes were still there. Now What, I asked. He just looked at me. Exit, stage right...! Looking for options, choices. Don't give up. >From: BALIHAI333@... >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: letter from a wacko >Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:42:05 EDT > >DITTO!!!!! I get so frustrated because my abuse happened originally as a >child many many years ago. Why, why, why, would I be stil suffering from >PTSD?????? And why would I still gravitate towards abusive men in the >recent past???? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Track your stocks and funds in a StockMaster portfolio. With easy setup, >you get quotes, charts, and news for them all on just one page. No >limits, fast loading, and FREE!http://clickhere./click/238 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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