Guest guest Posted July 16, 1998 Report Share Posted July 16, 1998 A Personal View >Hi all, > I'm new to the list and after lurking a bit feel >it's time to jump in. Welcome! Things are a little slow here lately. Probably a lot of people have been on vactions. >I'm not interested in any scholarly debates over different >viewpoints that can be validated using facts that can >convieniently produced to back up any arguement. >People become myopic in their views just to prove a point. The purpose of the debating (at least when I do it) is really to provide some ammo for folks who are trying to shake off the effects of indoctrination by the treatment establishment (and to a lesser extent by AA itself.) I never really expect to change the mind of the grouper I'm arguing with. When it's with someone more likeminded, the point is really discussion, i. e. becoming more informed and exploring someone else's perspective. > >I spent 12 years in a 12 step program. In the beginning >I was forced to attend AA meetings by an organization called the courts. I don't think they intentionally meant to trample my rights, it's just that >AA seemed the best way to help me stop drinking, ( to them). >I can't recount here all my expieriences with the program >but I'd like to address certain things a few at a time. > >After several years of exposure I finally stopped drinking. >I'm still not quite sure who should get the credit for that. >The point I want to make here is that I grew tired of AA and >views that were forced on me. I got tired and grew weary of > " steps " . I started to question " God as I understood Him " . >I began to believe that the " alcoholic " label which I not >only myself, but many others placed on me ,was not valid anymore. I felt I had " grown out " of my addiction and went on to prove it. I left AA and had the drink that they said I could never handle. > >I am now doing fine without AA, and can drink socially, but >need to purge my mind of the negatives that AA planted in my mind,( like guilt if I ever drank again, fear etc..) >I must add that I believe that the " principles " of the AA program are sound and good and have helped many people. It's >the PEOPLE and the treatment industry, et al... that have >diluted ,misinterpreted, and screwed up the original message. Interesting... I drank successfully for several years ('88-'93), but there were no groups or books around to help me purge my mind. My big mistake was revisiting AA after having been away for 5 years (there's a whole story to that, but it's not really relevant how it happened.) Within 2 months I was in a hospital recovering from the worst binge of all time. That's when I decided I had to quit for good. Have you checked out MM, or read Audrey Kishline's book? Best regards, Wally T. ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1998 Report Share Posted July 17, 1998 At 01:03 AM 7/17/98 -0400, Walter wrote, >Welcome! Things are a little slow here lately. Probably a lot of people have >been on vactions. Hi Walter, and thanks for the welcome. >>I'm not interested in any scholarly debates over different >>viewpoints that can be validated using facts that can >>convieniently produced to back up any arguement. >>People become myopic in their views just to prove a point. > >The purpose of the debating (at least when I do it) is really to provide >some ammo for folks who are trying to shake off the effects of >indoctrination by the treatment establishment (and to a lesser extent by AA >itself.) I never really expect to change the mind of the grouper I'm arguing >with. When it's with someone more likeminded, the point is really >discussion, i. e. becoming more informed and exploring someone else's >perspective. Yes. Discussion with open minded people is refreshing. To debate IS to try and change the mind and opinion of the one that your debating, and that is for the most part, I believe, mental masterbation. I welcome other views, I just don't like to be brow-beaten into someone elses agenda. It doesn't hurt though, like you said, to have " ammo " to go against the treatment industry and AA itself. The fact that I need to be discussing this at all shows the depth of AA's indoctrination into my psyche ! I'm not a professional and don't *need* to be talking about this. I've been wondering though if maybe it's my Judeo-Christian beliefs that I'm trying to purge and not AA's tenets ? Why am I so angry about this ? >>I am now doing fine without AA, and can drink socially, but >>need to purge my mind of the negatives that AA planted in my mind,( like >guilt if I ever drank again, fear etc..) >>I must add that I believe that the " principles " of the AA program are sound >and good and have helped many people. It's >>the PEOPLE and the treatment industry, et al... that have >>diluted ,misinterpreted, and screwed up the original message. > >Interesting... I drank successfully for several years ('88-'93), but there >were no groups or books around to help me purge my mind. My big mistake was >revisiting AA after having been away for 5 years (there's a whole story to >that, but it's not really relevant how it happened.) Within 2 months I was >in a hospital recovering from the worst binge of all time. That's when I >decided I had to quit for good. How long were you sober before you went back to drinking ? Did the binge occur BEFORE you went back to AA or after ? You see, one thing I know for sure is that should I ever have a problem with alcohol again I will *not* go back to AA for help. Thank goodness there are other options today. But even today, AA would be the easiest as it is so prevelant and more available than any other " program " . ( I think thats why so many people wind up in it ,and not somewhere else ) >Have you checked out MM, or read Audrey Kishline's book? Yes. When I first left AA I was looking for such a group. I found though that it wasn't for me. MM is for people who are trying to " learn " how to drink moderately. It's sort of a last ditch effort before AA. I think learning how to drink moderately needs to be done " before " the fact, not after. It also has " steps " , something I abhor. I also think that if you need to count your drinks then you *still* have a problem. Their intention is good though, they are trying to provide an option to AA, but I don't see their program going anywhere. Regards, JB. ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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