Guest guest Posted February 7, 1999 Report Share Posted February 7, 1999 wrote: Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=2078 > Feedback anyone? I managed to obtain a copy of the 12 page " intake > interview " (compiled after only an hour by a nurse!) and it pretty > much enraged me and caused me to quit the program immediately. This > is what I'm planning on sending them. I only wish that it could > solve/change my permanent medical history. It's situations such as > this that have caused me to eliminate therapy from my life altogether > even though I've *many* abuse issues still unresolved. > > Thanks for reading it (if you do!), > > banshee > >Great start! Find if any of the people who you have a complaint against are licenced by a professional board or belong to any related associations like ASAM or APA or your state licencing body. Get ahold of the ethics policy of the various associations that they belong to and read them. You'll find that they will have violated their own ethics policy. File complaints. Write letters to these boards hitting these people over the head with their own ethics policies. Be persistent because they will try to derail you. The more conviction and determination you show the more violations you'll uncover. The bastards will violate their own ethical standards as you've seen by lying and distorting the facts to paint you in the worst possible light. A sick and diseased person who is out of control. I know it's happened to me. If you need help, get help. Try Stanton Peele or Jack Trimpey at Rational Recovery. Good Luck ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 1999 Report Share Posted February 7, 1999 --- Banshee, Yes!! Do everything possible to expose & challenge the fraud in the recovery " Treatment For $$$ " industry! I know exactly what you mean about them distorting facts and outright inventing things to make you look as messed up and desperate for their " help " as possible. I too was shocked to see my " Diagnostic Summary and Referral " letter to the treatment facility from the EAP (when asked my drinking habits I said I have a couple on my days off without experiencing any problems; he wrote " Admits to abusing alcohol every weekend " ; later in the report he made reference to the fact of my getting private treatment for depression as follows: " Client's therapist has not recommended treatment or self-help for alcoholism, but did recommend an antidepressant, which client has not taken due to alcohol abuse " -- absolute fiction! and he refused to ever even consult with my Dr., who has far more qualifications than he!) and also my intake form at the treatment facility, which stated that I displayed " withdrawal symptoms " of anxiety, depression, and appetite loss. This brilliant medical appraisal of " alcohol withdrawal " was made by a social worker (in recovery of course!) with no medical training. I couldn't pursue a medicaid or insurance fraud claim because it was paid for by neither. My " treatment " was paid for directly out of the operating budget of my agency, which is heavily subsidized by the state treasury. I suppose I should write to various politicians, but do they care a fig? People like us who claim incompetence/fraud in addiction treatment aren't seen as having any credibility anyway, we're just in denial. Anyway, your complaint letter was great. Hopefully you'll get some results. Keep up the good work! ~Rita -------------------------------------------- >Feedback anyone? I managed to obtain a copy of the 12 page " intake >interview " (compiled after only an hour by a nurse!) and it pretty >much enraged me and caused me to quit the program immediately. This >is what I'm planning on sending them. I only wish that it could >solve/change my permanent medical history. It's situations such as >this that have caused me to eliminate therapy from my life altogether >even though I've *many* abuse issues still unresolved. > >Thanks for reading it (if you do!), > >banshee > >To (a well known and " respected " substance abuse pgm in the NorthEast >US): > > To be up front about this correspondence, I'm getting a bit more >than simply disturbed at your putting words in my mouth, or making >false interpretations on what I say to you in confidence. > I have read your (so called) " Intake Review " of me (I have copies) >and find not only absolute falsehoods (possibly subject to further >litigation by the parties they represent), but interpretations of what >I might have said that can be construed only as a justification of >your existence as an institution that wishes to continue to be >successful in billing third party agencies such as Medicare, et.al. >This justification at the expense of " patients " present and future >lives is unconscionable at best and possibly even illegal in the eyes >of the Federal Government. To add to this topic, Medicare is being >contacted about the treatment and subsequent report which in my >opinion was manipulated to server your ends falsified. > For starters, your use of the word " denies " (pertaining to my >comments about my life is misleading at best, and couched in language >that can only be interpreted as completely subjective and >interpretive. This multi-page document's " facts " are based on less >than a once hour " consultation " . Additionally it is signed by a >physician which whom I never saw, nor was even given the courtesy to >be introduced to. How you ever had the audacity of having a physician >sign a document relating to my history when this individual never saw >me is beyond my comprehension. Is this to aid in your billing >purposes? To add to this topic, I found that your " group sessions " >being led by completely unlicensed individuals deceptive, especially >as you advertise yourself as one of the better treatment centers for >substance abuse. > On page 4 of your " Intake Interview " you sate that I have " 3 >stepbrothers who you list as " unknown alcoholics " . Why? Your wording >of this, however you might justify it, is extremely misleading. The >use of the word " unknown " leaves much to interpretation. For the >record, NONE of them are what you could term " alcoholic " and how you >had the audacity to put this information on a medical evaluation form >is beyond me. After relating this information to one of my brothers I >can only say that he is outraged and unless this situation is solved, >might consider legal action against your corporation. Please keep in >mind that at no time did I eve supply you with information such as >this. This is your subjective interpretation of my statements to you. > The page (or form) called " DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIAL FOR ALCOHOL >DEPENDENCE / PSYCHOACTIVE SUBSTANCE: " which contained the leading >phrase " Must have at least three of the following: " (on page 7 of your > " Intake Document " have only 2 items checked (one of which I have >serious questions about its accuracy). If this is part of what you >base your treatment at your (I'll call it the NoChoice) facility for >substance abuse then why did you make the decision to treat me at FW's >and subsequently proceed to bill Medicare for such treatment. >Doesn't' treatment based on such criteria border on Medicare Fraud? >for your information, I am forwarding a copy of this information to >Medicare for their investigation. In short, part of your own >selection criteria seems to determine that I am not an alcoholic, yet >you planned on continuing to treat me as such and in the process, bill >Medicare for the full cost of treatment. > On page 2 of your " Integrated Summary " : " Problems with primary >support " . Where on earth did you obtain this information from? I >have very close friends who have helped me through some extremely >trying financial and emotional times and have even offered to pay both >my expenses (including my rent) and to be there when I need them. You >were told of this quite clearly. Your comment is absurd to put it >mildly, and an out and out lie to put it bluntly. > On page 3 of your " Integrated Summary " : Again the issue with > " problems with primary support " . (this is also mentioned on page 4). >Please see the above paragraph for an explanation of your comments. > However it is the " Discharge Summary " that really wins the award >for the manipulation of the truth. Never could I have been construed >as being " angry and hostile " as you claim. Nor did I exhibit any > " paranoid behavior in groups " . To explain why you came to these >erroneous assumptions about me might be futile (as they were already >clearly explained to you in person) but I will attempt to do so again >for the benefit of any authorities that might read this. > My first " group session " found me in the midst of a heated >discussion on a breach of confidentiality by one of the members. He >had admitted that he had mentioned personal and intimate information >to friends on the street (and thus outside of the group) about other >members of the group. Needless to say, this did not make me feel >comfortable with sharing personal information with the group. Would >it make anyone comfortable? I seriously doubt it. I had a normal >reaction to this situation. In no way could it be labeled as > " paranoid " as you so named it. A term btw that within my medical >records can permanently effect me. > Your completely unfounded and outrageous comments about my > " thinking that members were talking about my sexuality " is simply >that. You are making up things to justify your position. The only >time that I mentioned anything to this effect was when I discussed >that within a group setting with other women that my past might make >them uncomfortable and it might be best for all concerned that I not >take part in groups. This was not paranoid. I simply considered >caring for other's feelings and their ability to be comfortable in a >therapeutic environment a primary factor, apparently something that is >beyond your ability when viewing a " patient's " viewpoint. > In summation, I want this information corrected immediately and >the results sent to all parties that they were submitted to. I would >also like copies of the corrected documents sent to me for >verification purposes. Failure to do this will result in further >action. > >Yours truly, > >xxxxx > > >-------------------------------------------- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 1999 Report Share Posted February 7, 1999 Rita, Each time I click on one of your posts, I know I'm in for a treat of good old fasion common sense. Thanks, Tommy >From 12-step-free-return-1664-tgperkins Sun Feb 07 23:35:31 1999 >Received: from [209.185.96.158] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id MHotMailB887DD955F087D101708FD1B9609E416B238; Sun Feb 07 23:35:31 1999 >Received: from [127.0.0.1] by mh.findmail.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 1999 07:35:44 -0000 >Mailing-List: contact 12-step-free-owneregroups >Precedence: list >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-12-step-freeegroups >Received: (qmail 26658 invoked by uid 7770); 8 Feb 1999 07:35:28 -0000 >Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (209.1.236.44) > by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 1999 07:35:28 -0000 >Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by my-dejanews.com; Sun Feb 7 23:35:16 1999 >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 07:35:16 -0000 > >Message-ID: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Cc: >X-Sent-Mail: off >X-Mailer: MailCity Service >X-Sender-Ip: 209.240.200.56 >Organization: Deja News Mail (http://www.my-dejanews.com:80) >Subject: Re: a complaint letter/ any thoughts? >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >--- > > > > Banshee, > > Yes!! Do everything possible to expose & challenge the fraud in the recovery " Treatment For $$$ " industry! > I know exactly what you mean about them distorting facts and outright inventing things to make you look as messed up and desperate for their " help " as possible. I too was shocked to see my " Diagnostic Summary and Referral " letter to the treatment facility from the EAP (when asked my drinking habits I said I have a couple on my days off without experiencing any problems; he wrote " Admits to abusing alcohol every weekend " ; later in the report he made reference to the fact of my getting private treatment for depression as follows: " Client's therapist has not recommended treatment or self-help for alcoholism, but did recommend an antidepressant, which client has not taken due to alcohol abuse " -- absolute fiction! and he refused to ever even consult with my Dr., who has far more qualifications than he!) and also my intake form at the treatment facility, which stated that I displayed " withdrawal symptoms " of anxiety, depression, and appetite loss. This brilliant medical appraisal of " alcohol withdrawal " was made by a social worker (in recovery of course!) with no medical training. > I couldn't pursue a medicaid or insurance fraud claim because it was paid for by neither. My " treatment " was paid for directly out of the operating budget of my agency, which is heavily subsidized by the state treasury. I suppose I should write to various politicians, but do they care a fig? People like us who claim incompetence/fraud in addiction treatment aren't seen as having any credibility anyway, we're just in denial. > > Anyway, your complaint letter was great. Hopefully you'll get some results. Keep up the good work! > >~Rita > > >-------------------------------------------- > > >>Feedback anyone? I managed to obtain a copy of the 12 page " intake >>interview " (compiled after only an hour by a nurse!) and it pretty >>much enraged me and caused me to quit the program immediately. This >>is what I'm planning on sending them. I only wish that it could >>solve/change my permanent medical history. It's situations such as >>this that have caused me to eliminate therapy from my life altogether >>even though I've *many* abuse issues still unresolved. >> >>Thanks for reading it (if you do!), >> >>banshee >> >>To (a well known and " respected " substance abuse pgm in the NorthEast >>US): >> >> To be up front about this correspondence, I'm getting a bit more >>than simply disturbed at your putting words in my mouth, or making >>false interpretations on what I say to you in confidence. >> I have read your (so called) " Intake Review " of me (I have copies) >>and find not only absolute falsehoods (possibly subject to further >>litigation by the parties they represent), but interpretations of what >>I might have said that can be construed only as a justification of >>your existence as an institution that wishes to continue to be >>successful in billing third party agencies such as Medicare, et.al. >>This justification at the expense of " patients " present and future >>lives is unconscionable at best and possibly even illegal in the eyes >>of the Federal Government. To add to this topic, Medicare is being >>contacted about the treatment and subsequent report which in my >>opinion was manipulated to server your ends falsified. >> For starters, your use of the word " denies " (pertaining to my >>comments about my life is misleading at best, and couched in language >>that can only be interpreted as completely subjective and >>interpretive. This multi-page document's " facts " are based on less >>than a once hour " consultation " . Additionally it is signed by a >>physician which whom I never saw, nor was even given the courtesy to >>be introduced to. How you ever had the audacity of having a physician >>sign a document relating to my history when this individual never saw >>me is beyond my comprehension. Is this to aid in your billing >>purposes? To add to this topic, I found that your " group sessions " >>being led by completely unlicensed individuals deceptive, especially >>as you advertise yourself as one of the better treatment centers for >>substance abuse. >> On page 4 of your " Intake Interview " you sate that I have " 3 >>stepbrothers who you list as " unknown alcoholics " . Why? Your wording >>of this, however you might justify it, is extremely misleading. The >>use of the word " unknown " leaves much to interpretation. For the >>record, NONE of them are what you could term " alcoholic " and how you >>had the audacity to put this information on a medical evaluation form >>is beyond me. After relating this information to one of my brothers I >>can only say that he is outraged and unless this situation is solved, >>might consider legal action against your corporation. Please keep in >>mind that at no time did I eve supply you with information such as >>this. This is your subjective interpretation of my statements to you. >> The page (or form) called " DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIAL FOR ALCOHOL >>DEPENDENCE / PSYCHOACTIVE SUBSTANCE: " which contained the leading >>phrase " Must have at least three of the following: " (on page 7 of your >> " Intake Document " have only 2 items checked (one of which I have >>serious questions about its accuracy). If this is part of what you >>base your treatment at your (I'll call it the NoChoice) facility for >>substance abuse then why did you make the decision to treat me at FW's >>and subsequently proceed to bill Medicare for such treatment. >>Doesn't' treatment based on such criteria border on Medicare Fraud? >>for your information, I am forwarding a copy of this information to >>Medicare for their investigation. In short, part of your own >>selection criteria seems to determine that I am not an alcoholic, yet >>you planned on continuing to treat me as such and in the process, bill >>Medicare for the full cost of treatment. >> On page 2 of your " Integrated Summary " : " Problems with primary >>support " . Where on earth did you obtain this information from? I >>have very close friends who have helped me through some extremely >>trying financial and emotional times and have even offered to pay both >>my expenses (including my rent) and to be there when I need them. You >>were told of this quite clearly. Your comment is absurd to put it >>mildly, and an out and out lie to put it bluntly. >> On page 3 of your " Integrated Summary " : Again the issue with >> " problems with primary support " . (this is also mentioned on page 4). >>Please see the above paragraph for an explanation of your comments. >> However it is the " Discharge Summary " that really wins the award >>for the manipulation of the truth. Never could I have been construed >>as being " angry and hostile " as you claim. Nor did I exhibit any >> " paranoid behavior in groups " . To explain why you came to these >>erroneous assumptions about me might be futile (as they were already >>clearly explained to you in person) but I will attempt to do so again >>for the benefit of any authorities that might read this. >> My first " group session " found me in the midst of a heated >>discussion on a breach of confidentiality by one of the members. He >>had admitted that he had mentioned personal and intimate information >>to friends on the street (and thus outside of the group) about other >>members of the group. Needless to say, this did not make me feel >>comfortable with sharing personal information with the group. Would >>it make anyone comfortable? I seriously doubt it. I had a normal >>reaction to this situation. In no way could it be labeled as >> " paranoid " as you so named it. A term btw that within my medical >>records can permanently effect me. >> Your completely unfounded and outrageous comments about my >> " thinking that members were talking about my sexuality " is simply >>that. You are making up things to justify your position. The only >>time that I mentioned anything to this effect was when I discussed >>that within a group setting with other women that my past might make >>them uncomfortable and it might be best for all concerned that I not >>take part in groups. This was not paranoid. I simply considered >>caring for other's feelings and their ability to be comfortable in a >>therapeutic environment a primary factor, apparently something that is >>beyond your ability when viewing a " patient's " viewpoint. >> In summation, I want this information corrected immediately and >>the results sent to all parties that they were submitted to. I would >>also like copies of the corrected documents sent to me for >>verification purposes. Failure to do this will result in further >>action. >> >>Yours truly, >> >>xxxxx >> >> >>-------------------------------------------- > > > >-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Searching for the man of your dreams? >The job of your dreams? Stop dreaming >and go to HomeArts.com for horoscopes, >LoveScopes or CareerScopes. http://offers./click/212/1 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 1999 Report Share Posted February 8, 1999 Good to hear from you, Tommy. That's great news about your appeal! Maybe you can give the ACLU another call? You never know with them. , of vs. Coughlin, also had no resources. Interestingly, although he was an avowed atheist and had no connection to Judaism, an Amicus Curiae brief was filed for him by the American Jewish Congress. Are you familiar with the case? http://www.law.cornell.edu/ny/ctap/l96_0137.htm My company is offering an out-of-court settlement on my federal suit in which they will agree to never force anyone into a 12-step program again in exchange for my dropping any and all present and future legal and professional complaints against Mr. R.F. " Creep " , the EAP manager. It's really hard for me to feel thrilled about this, though my attorney calls it " a great victory for the Constitution. " The idea of The Creep emerging unscathed and ready to force other people into 9 months of phony " treatment " for a nonexistent " disease " (as long as the mandated " self-help " meetings aren't AA) is sickening. Oh well, I guess I should try to work on " an attitude of gratitude " as the steppers say. I have my job, my co-workers are behind me, and in 7 years I can retire and get the hell out of this lunatic company. Fight for your pension, Tommy, you earned it. I'm behind you 100%! ~Rita ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 1999 Report Share Posted February 9, 1999 Isn't the problem, , that the large corporations and the government actively and consciously promote AA and the 12-Step method? Remember Betty Ford? Most people who have alcohol and drug related problems might indeed actually prefer a different kind of assistance. But if the corporations and the government strongly desire that " addictions " be addressed via the 12-step method, the 12-step method I am afraid it is going to be. There is a constituency out there which favors 12-step treatment for " addiction " problems. But the most important part of that constituency is not drawn from the population which receives the treatment. Gerald Ford, and other Republican leaders, really pull the strings; Betty Ford is just an innocuous figurehead. 12-step therapy is all about what some people, mostly in powerful positions, want to do to other people, who are mostly " powerless. " And the goal of this " treatment " is to make their " powerlessness " complete.. ---------- > From: fransway29@... > To: 12-step-freeegroups > Subject: Re: a complaint letter/ any thoughts? > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:08 PM > > wrote: > Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=2078 > > Feedback anyone? I managed to obtain a copy of the 12 page " intake > > interview " (compiled after only an hour by a nurse!) and it pretty > > much enraged me and caused me to quit the program immediately. This > > is what I'm planning on sending them. I only wish that it could > > solve/change my permanent medical history. It's situations such as > > this that have caused me to eliminate therapy from my life altogether > > even though I've *many* abuse issues still unresolved. > > > > Thanks for reading it (if you do!), > > Good letter. If everyone caught up in the 12-step Insquisition wrote to > Medi-care, exposing the fraud, they'd whither up for lack of funds. > > Think of the money that can be made for > re-training all these phony rehab counselors. For that matter, can you > imagine the demand for therapists who guarantee: No 12-step Inquisition? " > Why aren't there more of them? As it is, you practically can't let them > know you ever drank! > > > > http://www.zinezone.com/users/fransway > > banshee > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One Day Science Will Create A Natural Solution For Hairloss > That day is today. HairGenesis. The world’s first naturally > derived and proven treatment for Male Pattern Hairloss. > Click Here: http://offers./click/217/0 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 1999 Report Share Posted February 10, 1999 > Do they get a pre formatted diagnosis and evaluation prepared for them at some > class? Your evaluation is almost identical to the one we obtained after > numerous letters and finally having to cite the FOIA and forward a copy of our > request to the State Commission. How can everyone be that diseased and not > even notice? Interesting that your evaluation (or someone that you know) was almost identical to the one I outlined. Since the same 12 Steps are supposed to work miracles (ah yes, " You are a miracle! " ), why not the same evaluation form? You know, I didn't know that I'd had this *Disease* until the doctors told me that I had it. Then of course it was confirmed by people in XA ( " If you are here, then you are an alcoholic " , " You are in the right place " ad nauseum), then by my sponsor. I'd apparently had it all of my life and never really knew it! So much suffering that could have been eliminated if I'd only found " religion " earlier Unfortunately I never realized because I hardly ever drank, PERIOD! Apologies for the sarcasm but the entire diagnostic situation that I found myself in was ludicrous. Years ago I had lost weight (a lot, quickly) from a very high stress situation (interestingly I wasn't aware of the drinking *Disease* then!) and was diagnosed as anorexic by a Psychologist who specialized in anorexia. Never had an eating problem in my life up until then (and this was my ..... well I was over 30 I told my (now ex) therapist that if I had decided at the time to go to an Animal Behaviorist instead of a Psychologist who specialized in anorexia that Goddess only knows what I'd have been diagnosed with (hairballs perhaps? mange?). banshee > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One day scientists will discover a natural > solution for hair loss. That day is here .... > Hair Genesis http://offers./click/224/0 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 In a message dated 2/14/99 9:52:57 AM Central Standard Time, MARDINOYES@... writes: << Welcome. . . in my husband's mandatory " alcohol abuse counseling sessions " the counselor was actually encouraging the men to leave their marriages if the wives would not join ALANON and take on their belief system. . " nothing should threaten your sobriety " and they tried to convince them that their wives actually wanted them to be alcoholic so they could be in control . . . it was very sick but in reality I would rather have a husband that drinks than a warped glassy eyed AA drone. >> Geez! Pathetic! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 Well, guess what. Our experience the same to the letter. Scary huh. I would rather have a husband that drinks than the other too, not because of control (like THEY would say) but because there's a difference between a real man and a Pod-Borg person. Later, Joy >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >From: MARDINOYES@... >Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:47:05 EST >To: 12-step-freeegroups >Subject: Re: a complaint letter/ any thoughts? > >Welcome. . . in my husband's mandatory " alcohol abuse counseling sessions " the >counselor was actually encouraging the men to leave their marriages if the >wives would not join ALANON and take on their belief system. . " nothing should >threaten your sobriety " and they tried to convince them that their wives >actually wanted them to be alcoholic so they could be in control . . . it was >very sick but in reality I would rather have a husband that drinks than a >warped glassy eyed AA drone. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >One day scientists will discover a natural >solution for hair loss. That day is here .... >Hair Genesis http://offers./click/224/0 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 -- [ From: Janice Young * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- Go for it. Well written and I especially agree with sending a copy of the letter to Medicare. Jan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 1999 Report Share Posted February 26, 1999 -- [ From: Janice Young * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- , ------------------------------------------------------ For that matter, can you imagine the demand for therapists who guarantee : No 12-step Inquisition? " Why aren't there more of them? As it is, you practically can't let them know you ever drank! ---------------------------------------------- I'm reminded of my outpatient treatment. It was a group setting and the discussion was on how does one know one is an alcoholic and the therapists responded with " if it interferes with the way you want to live your life and it causes problems in your life. " One therapist even went so far as to say that if a person only drank on New Year's Eve and got themselves rip roaring drunk and then got a DUI, they could consider themselves an alcoholic because it caused them a problem. There were so many of these examples I tried to swallow and be open-minded about. I considered myself pretty much a screwup back then (and to be honest, I was in many ways) and these people (therapists) must certainly know more than I! And this treatment center made us go to at least 3 AA meetings a week. AA members sat in on our treatment sessions. I see now where that really is a break in the Traditions (no opinion on outside issues, etc.) Jan http://www.zinezone.com/users/fransway > banshee > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ One Day Science Will Create A Natural Solution For Hairloss That day is today. HairGenesis. The world's first naturally derived and proven treatment for Male Pattern Hairloss. Click Here: http://offers.egroups. com/click/217/0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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