Re: All Addiction Recovery Groups cancelled

[Guest guest]

Hey Pete!

Just curious ~ did you go back to OA?

Snowy

>>

>> Hi Snowy

>>

>> Secret confession: I just might go back to OA.

>>

>> when I query god, and they say:

>>

>> " All you need to know is that you aint it. " I shall reply:

>>

>> " No. i also need to know that you aint it either. "

>>

>> Stanton Peele has a website; a netsearch on his name will easily

>find it.

>>

>> btw, are you a Native American by any chance?

>>

>> I know that some Native American communities have had bad problems

>with

>> alcohol - I came across one paper reporting something like 75%

>lifetime

>> prevalence of alcohol abuse in men and 50% in women in one Native

>American

>> village. Presumably the disease concept/12-step ppl consider all

>these ppl

>> " diseased " . how very enlightened!

>>

>> Pete

>> ----------------------

>> " Never name the well from which you will not drink. "

>> - n Zimmer Bradley

>>

>> PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST:

>> http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

it is confusing isn't it? I live with an AAer so I hear all the news~

and the current one is a woman with 11 years sober who felt she could

socially drink, and now has bottles of vodka hidden all over the

house. It's very hard to understand. Is it chemical? Or are these

people just so out of touch with themselves that the alcohol/drugs

bring them to a place they can't get to otherwise? oops have to go,

continue later.

---SnowyEagle wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Heidi~

>

> This was really interesting. Your aunt, a REAL person, has noticed

this.

> It's not just some scientist writing theoretically.

>

> From what I have read, it is supposed to be genetic, but who knows?

I know

> the Native American lacks the enzyme necessary to digest milk, which

would

> be an evolutionary thing, and genetic. Maybe the rest is, too. I

know the

> Europeans noticed the same thing as your aunt did when they first

came to

> this country. Just give those " Indians " firewater and you could have

> whatever you wanted. They quickly saw the difference in the way they

> reacted to it from the way the Indians did and used it to full

advantage.

>

> It sounds like a genetic thing, doesn't it? Like the lacking enzyme

for

> milk protein, the lack of refined, concentrated carbohydrate in the

diet

> gave them a genetically different response to carbohydrate. Oh,

boy. I

> don't want to deal with this. If this is true, and I inherited it,

no more

> sugar. Yuck.

>

> I know my grandfather, who's grandfather was the Indian, said he had

whiskey

> once. Once. He didn't just like it. HE LOVED IT!! He loved it

sooooo

> much, he vowed to never touch it again, and didn't. He didn't know

why, of

> course, but he felt it would take over his life. This sounds

genetic, too,

> now that I think about it. His whole body just said " YES " when he

took that

> drink.

>

> I followed his advice and watch what I drink ~ always have. So,

instead, I

> have a weight issue. Hard to say which is worse. He didn't even

have the

> weight issue. He was skinny.

>

> Just some random thoughts in response to your very interesting post.

>

> Snowy

>

> >I have an aunt who was a nurse in for an Indian/Eskimo village(please

> >pardon my ignorance of the details) in Northern-NORTHERN Canada. She

> >often mentioned the amazing effects of alcohol, sugar, and white

> >flour/processed foods, on these people: incredible violence, obesity,

> >diabetes, tooth decay; all in one generation. This does say something

> >about genetics, but I'm not sure what. Is it hypoglycemia? Is it

> >simply the fact that they have no genetic history with these

> >substances? What does this say about the genetic alcoholic

connection?

> >

> >

> >

> >---Pete Watts wrote:

> >>

> >> Hi Snowy

> >>

> >> Secret confession: I just might go back to OA.

> >>

> >> when I query god, and they say:

> >>

> >> " All you need to know is that you aint it. " I shall reply:

> >>

> >> " No. i also need to know that you aint it either. "

> >>

> >> Stanton Peele has a website; a netsearch on his name will easily

> >find it.

> >>

> >> btw, are you a Native American by any chance?

> >>

> >> I know that some Native American communities have had bad problems

> >with

> >> alcohol - I came across one paper reporting something like 75%

> >lifetime

> >> prevalence of alcohol abuse in men and 50% in women in one Native

> >American

> >> village. Presumably the disease concept/12-step ppl consider all

> >these ppl

> >> " diseased " . how very enlightened!

> >>

> >> Pete

> >> ----------------------

> >> " Never name the well from which you will not drink. "

> >> - n Zimmer Bradley

> >>

> >> PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST:

> >> http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

> >> _____________________

> >>

> >>

> >>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> Isn't it Time You Moved to Fortune City?

> >>

>

>http://www2.fortunecity.com/cgi-bin/homepage/estate.pl?referer=findmail

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

At 02:06 PM 1/12/99 -0800, heidi michaud wrote:

>it is confusing isn't it? I live with an AAer so I hear all the news~

>and the current one is a woman with 11 years sober who felt she could

>socially drink, and now has bottles of vodka hidden all over the

>house.

Its not surprising when this person has been told that its all or nothing.

Repeat after me, she is told, repeat after me, " One drink leads to a

million, one drink leads to a million. You are out of control, control,

control. You can not resist me. It is useless to resist, resist,

resist...,. Good drinking, yes, you are fulfilling the role of the

alcoholics anonymous stereotype drinker. You have learned well. Drink and

forget. "

It's very hard to understand. Is it chemical?

Well, yes, in sorts. Alcohol does give a warm feeling, spreading to lifting

off and then to washing away of worries before the attempt to chase that

elusive high.

Or are these

>people just so out of touch with themselves

When drunk, yes. They may feel they are unfortunately not out of control

before they drink. Immediate gratification can take any excuse. If they

were so out of touch with themselves they could responsibly get straight

and use community services to express genuine emotions.

that the alcohol/drugs

>bring them to a place they can't get to otherwise?

The place they get to is self masterbation. I've never found I could

participate in anyone elses drunk.

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my understandings of

self-intoxication and the 12 step indoctrination.

Carol Francey

oops have to go,

>continue later.

>

>

>

>

>---SnowyEagle wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Heidi~

>>

>> This was really interesting. Your aunt, a REAL person, has noticed

>this.

>> It's not just some scientist writing theoretically.

>>

>> From what I have read, it is supposed to be genetic, but who knows?

>I know

>> the Native American lacks the enzyme necessary to digest milk, which

>would

>> be an evolutionary thing, and genetic. Maybe the rest is, too. I

>know the

>> Europeans noticed the same thing as your aunt did when they first

>came to

>> this country. Just give those " Indians " firewater and you could have

>> whatever you wanted. They quickly saw the difference in the way they

>> reacted to it from the way the Indians did and used it to full

>advantage.

>>

>> It sounds like a genetic thing, doesn't it? Like the lacking enzyme

>for

>> milk protein, the lack of refined, concentrated carbohydrate in the

>diet

>> gave them a genetically different response to carbohydrate. Oh,

>boy. I

>> don't want to deal with this. If this is true, and I inherited it,

>no more

>> sugar. Yuck.

>>

>> I know my grandfather, who's grandfather was the Indian, said he had

>whiskey

>> once. Once. He didn't just like it. HE LOVED IT!! He loved it

>sooooo

>> much, he vowed to never touch it again, and didn't. He didn't know

>why, of

>> course, but he felt it would take over his life. This sounds

>genetic, too,

>> now that I think about it. His whole body just said " YES " when he

>took that

>> drink.

>>

>> I followed his advice and watch what I drink ~ always have. So,

>instead, I

>> have a weight issue. Hard to say which is worse. He didn't even

>have the

>> weight issue. He was skinny.

>>

>> Just some random thoughts in response to your very interesting post.

>>

>> Snowy

>>

>> >I have an aunt who was a nurse in for an Indian/Eskimo village(please

>> >pardon my ignorance of the details) in Northern-NORTHERN Canada. She

>> >often mentioned the amazing effects of alcohol, sugar, and white

>> >flour/processed foods, on these people: incredible violence, obesity,

>> >diabetes, tooth decay; all in one generation. This does say something

>> >about genetics, but I'm not sure what. Is it hypoglycemia? Is it

>> >simply the fact that they have no genetic history with these

>> >substances? What does this say about the genetic alcoholic

>connection?

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >---Pete Watts wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Hi Snowy

>> >>

>> >> Secret confession: I just might go back to OA.

>> >>

>> >> when I query god, and they say:

>> >>

>> >> " All you need to know is that you aint it. " I shall reply:

>> >>

>> >> " No. i also need to know that you aint it either. "

>> >>

>> >> Stanton Peele has a website; a netsearch on his name will easily

>> >find it.

>> >>

>> >> btw, are you a Native American by any chance?

>> >>

>> >> I know that some Native American communities have had bad problems

>> >with

>> >> alcohol - I came across one paper reporting something like 75%

>> >lifetime

>> >> prevalence of alcohol abuse in men and 50% in women in one Native

>> >American

>> >> village. Presumably the disease concept/12-step ppl consider all

>> >these ppl

>> >> " diseased " . how very enlightened!

>> >>

>> >> Pete

>> >> ----------------------

>> >> " Never name the well from which you will not drink. "

>> >> - n Zimmer Bradley

>> >>

>> >> PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST:

>> >> http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

>> >> _____________________

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> Isn't it Time You Moved to Fortune City?

>> >>

>>

>>http://www2.fortunecity.com/cgi-bin/homepage/estate.pl?referer=findmail

>> >>

>> >>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey Pete!

>

> Just curious ~ did you go back to OA?

Not yet. The spirit is unwilling, but the flesh is weak.

I ought to write abt this I guess. I'm falling for the " Take what you need and

leave the rest " bit....

Pete

>

> Snowy

----------

Pete Watts

" Never name the well from which you will not drink. "

- n Zimmer Bradley

PERSONALITY-DISORDERS SUPPORT LIST:

http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

At 02:06 PM 1/12/99 -0800, you wrote:

>it is confusing isn't it? I live with an AAer so I hear all the news~

>and the current one is a woman with 11 years sober who felt she could

>socially drink, and now has bottles of vodka hidden all over the

>house. It's very hard to understand. Is it chemical? Or are these

>people just so out of touch with themselves that the alcohol/drugs

>bring them to a place they can't get to otherwise? oops have to go,

>continue later.

Here is my explanation for a large part of her behaviour, but not

necessarily all. If this woman is/was attending AA meetings for 11 years

she will likely have a great deal of programming about powerlessness and

disease, so her behaviour could be as much of a self-fulfilling prophesy as

anything real or chemical. How many times did she announce herself as an

" alcoholic " and state that she was " powerless " in those meetings? And how

many people did she hear others saying exactly the same thing over those 11

years? None of that needed to be real or true to have a profound effect on

her belief system.

Joe Berenbaum

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete ~

>> Just curious ~ did you go back to OA?

>

>Not yet. The spirit is unwilling, but the flesh is weak.

That is good (in the sense of funny)! I KNOW what you mean.

>

>I ought to write abt this I guess. I'm falling for the " Take what you need

and

>leave the rest " bit....

If you ever want to write about it, I'd be interested.

Snowy

>

>Pete

>

>>

>> Snowy

>

>----------

>Pete Watts

>

> " Never name the well from which you will not drink. "

> - n Zimmer Bradley

>

>PERSONALITY-DISORDERS SUPPORT LIST:

>http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/12/99 2:22:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,

zoesunshine@... writes:

>

> it is confusing isn't it? I live with an AAer so I hear all the news~

> and the current one is a woman with 11 years sober who felt she could

> socially drink, and now has bottles of vodka hidden all over the

> house. It's very hard to understand. Is it chemical?

Heidi,

I don't think it's so hard to understand. When someone is really wrapped up in

AA, all they think about is DRINKING. Just like when someone is dieting, all

they think about is FOOD.

I found I was much better off not spending every waking minute of my days

thinking about what I should NOT be doing! Lost 40 pounds last year. Don't get

drunk no more, neither.

Henders

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

oooh this stuff makes me mad sometimes. This lady who went out is

actually a sponsee of my roomie. I came home the other day and my

roomie was in the corner in a chair crying. " Waz up? " I say. She said

the 'lady' called her and was drunk again, and now my roomie, " J " , was

so 'angry at this disease' and 'for the first time, very scared of

it'. The irony is,she lives with me; someone who has changed their

drinking habits, but I have not told her that I have had some drinks.

Perhaps, after I move out ,I will tell her. It won't prove anything to

her though, she'll just say I was never an alcoholic in the first

place! " J " cries because she 'can't pay her bills'(I refuse to use my

$1,000 x-mas money to pay bills, says she), and 'doesn't know where

the money goes'- um, maybe on those $100 outfits she buys every week.

Any time I get a music gig she says " I wish I could do that, but I'm

too busy saving lives. " So, basically, she's so focused on her disease

that she doesn't look at the reality of her life, and the fact that

maybe her life makes her miserable not her disease. Yeah, I remember

being there. Everything was the fault of the disease; it sucked.

---Pete Watts wrote:

>

> Hello heidi

>

> you hear the news the same way they used to hear it in the SOviet

Union. The SU

> news agency Tass had " White Tass " that was accurate with just the

worst

> anti-Soviet news removed, and " Red Tass " that was after it had been

given the

> 1984 treatment.

>

> All you will get from your roomie is " Blue Tass " - news filtered

thru the AA

> belief system. She'll never tell you a moderation success story, in

part

> becuase *she* doesnt hear them - these ppl leave AA - she only hears

those who

> screw up. Also, she will never tell you abt abstention failures

apart from

> those who come back too, as proof of the need for AA.

>

> I have heard a cognitive description of 'alcoholism' which simply

states that

> everybody can get merry on alcohol, but that the 'alcoholic'

mistakes the

> illusion for reality. Instead of seeing alcohol use as a source of

ephemeral

> pleasure of no great value, they see it as opening the door to a

genuine new

> world where life is easier.

>

> Pete

>

> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:06:27 -0800 (PST) heidi michaud

> wrote:

>

> > it is confusing isn't it? I live with an AAer so I hear all the

news~

> > and the current one is a woman with 11 years sober who felt she

could

> > socially drink, and now has bottles of vodka hidden all over the

> > house. It's very hard to understand. Is it chemical? Or are these

> > people just so out of touch with themselves that the alcohol/drugs

> > bring them to a place they can't get to otherwise? oops have to go,

> > continue later.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---SnowyEagle wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Heidi~

> > >

> > > This was really interesting. Your aunt, a REAL person, has

noticed

> > this.

> > > It's not just some scientist writing theoretically.

> > >

> > > From what I have read, it is supposed to be genetic, but who

knows?

> > I know

> > > the Native American lacks the enzyme necessary to digest milk,

which

> > would

> > > be an evolutionary thing, and genetic. Maybe the rest is, too. I

> > know the

> > > Europeans noticed the same thing as your aunt did when they first

> > came to

> > > this country. Just give those " Indians " firewater and you could

have

> > > whatever you wanted. They quickly saw the difference in the way

they

> > > reacted to it from the way the Indians did and used it to full

> > advantage.

> > >

> > > It sounds like a genetic thing, doesn't it? Like the lacking

enzyme

> > for

> > > milk protein, the lack of refined, concentrated carbohydrate in

the

> > diet

> > > gave them a genetically different response to carbohydrate. Oh,

> > boy. I

> > > don't want to deal with this. If this is true, and I inherited

it,

> > no more

> > > sugar. Yuck.

> > >

> > > I know my grandfather, who's grandfather was the Indian, said he

had

> > whiskey

> > > once. Once. He didn't just like it. HE LOVED IT!! He loved it

> > sooooo

> > > much, he vowed to never touch it again, and didn't. He didn't

know

> > why, of

> > > course, but he felt it would take over his life. This sounds

> > genetic, too,

> > > now that I think about it. His whole body just said " YES " when he

> > took that

> > > drink.

> > >

> > > I followed his advice and watch what I drink ~ always have. So,

> > instead, I

> > > have a weight issue. Hard to say which is worse. He didn't even

> > have the

> > > weight issue. He was skinny.

> > >

> > > Just some random thoughts in response to your very interesting

post.

> > >

> > > Snowy

> > >

> > > >I have an aunt who was a nurse in for an Indian/Eskimo

village(please

> > > >pardon my ignorance of the details) in Northern-NORTHERN

Canada. She

> > > >often mentioned the amazing effects of alcohol, sugar, and white

> > > >flour/processed foods, on these people: incredible violence,

obesity,

> > > >diabetes, tooth decay; all in one generation. This does say

something

> > > >about genetics, but I'm not sure what. Is it hypoglycemia? Is it

> > > >simply the fact that they have no genetic history with these

> > > >substances? What does this say about the genetic alcoholic

> > connection?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >---Pete Watts wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Hi Snowy

> > > >>

> > > >> Secret confession: I just might go back to OA.

> > > >>

> > > >> when I query god, and they say:

> > > >>

> > > >> " All you need to know is that you aint it. " I shall reply:

> > > >>

> > > >> " No. i also need to know that you aint it either. "

> > > >>

> > > >> Stanton Peele has a website; a netsearch on his name will

easily

> > > >find it.

> > > >>

> > > >> btw, are you a Native American by any chance?

> > > >>

> > > >> I know that some Native American communities have had bad

problems

> > > >with

> > > >> alcohol - I came across one paper reporting something like 75%

> > > >lifetime

> > > >> prevalence of alcohol abuse in men and 50% in women in one

Native

> > > >American

> > > >> village. Presumably the disease concept/12-step ppl consider

all

> > > >these ppl

> > > >> " diseased " . how very enlightened!

> > > >>

> > > >> Pete

> > > >> ----------------------

> > > >> " Never name the well from which you will not drink. "

> > > >> - n Zimmer Bradley

> > > >>

> > > >> PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST:

> > > >> http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

> > > >> _____________________

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > >

> >

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > >> Isn't it Time You Moved to Fortune City?

> > > >>

> > >

> >

>http://www2.fortunecity.com/cgi-bin/homepage/estate.pl?referer=findmail

> > > >>

> > > >>