Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 In a message dated 5/8/99 6:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, joe-b@... writes: > Some AA woman I knew who no longer calls me > (I wonder why) once told me that she was the victim of a sexual assault and > she talked to and he told her to take her inventory. Now that tell > you something, doesn't it. AA is full of people, in my opinion, who are at least one brick shy of a load. At every single meeting I went to (for about six months), I kept thinking to myself, " These people are way weird. " I would come home from AA meetings with spitting headaches from the tension, and totally depressed, thinking, " What a bunch of losers and idiots. " As you probably have guess by now, I could just never get into it. <g> I knew I certainly didn't want to be like them, so I went down the bar. At least with the people there, I could relate, have a normal conversation, and laugh! They seemed so refreshingly human and NORMAL. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 Hi Kayleigh Very pleased to hear your positive story about 'lunch is for winners'. well done for sorting that negotiation out. however, to this brit it still sounds amazing that your innovation was have ppl eat *at all*, not actually have a break to eat in! Pete, who is never going to be a millionaire.... On Sat, 08 May 1999 11:37:08 -0700 Kayleigh S wrote: > Actually he told me he had four drinks. He must have drunk them mighty fast for me to have only seen two. But I agree about the exhaustion, and I agree with your point about tolerance. Even if he hadn't been exhausted, I think the stress over his daughter, his house and his wife would have sunk him. > > He was out of that party so fast that I doubt many people noticed anything wrong. But he really was afraid he would be fired the next day (he wasn't). > > The " lunch is for wimps " philosophy sucks. A few years ago I was in negotiations in a lawsuit that had 30 parties. That's a lot of parties, and if you're going to successfully negotiate they all have to get something they want and perceive that what the other folks want and get doesn't hurt them. The first day, we were told we could wrap things up before noon. On the first day of the third week, I said, " Look, let's be reasonable. We've been starving for two weeks and it's really damaged our reasoning capability. " So we actually ordered lunch and ate it, while negotiating, of course. After negotiating for two more weeks we reached a settlement, and I was pretty proud of it, to be honest, because getting 30 parties to agree isn't easy. Meanwhile, we all acknowledged reality and ate lunch. > > I think the workaholic and downsizing ethic has done untold damage to American workers and American productivity. I remember reading a couple days ago that so many workers would take the day off to see the new Star Wars movie that it would cost us $263 million in productivity. Why not turn it around and say it puts $263 million into the economy? People think the more you work, the more productive you are, and it just ain't true. I am quite sure that productivity slips bigtime when people just contemplate the 14 hour day ahead of them. > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >Hi Kayleigh > > > >From your description the exhaustion alone could explain why two drinks > >affected this guy so badly. Active problem drinkers usually show *greater* > >tolerance for alcohol. Of course, AA thinking has primed him for a lapse > >under pressure of course. it's very sad that this could hurt his reputation. > > > >'Lunch is for wimps' seems to be part of the AMerican ethos. I am reading a > >book given to me by my OA ex called 'Go For It: find Success in Study, Work > >and Love " which basically seems to be abt turning yourself into an anorexic > >workaholic. > > > >P. > > > >On Thu, 06 May 1999 20:02:17 -0700 Kayleigh S > >wrote: > > > >> Glad to hear it. > >> > >> Actually, I'm pretty upset about something that happened a few days ago > >with a friend of mine, that happens to be the guy I work for. > > >> I'm working for a political campaign, and campaigns have their own logic > >and attract a certain kind of worker that is able to work hours on end > >without eating. Needless to say, they're young. They kid about the > >campaign diet being coffee, doughnuts, pizza and beer. I myself am a firm > >believer in eating decently at regular times. But seasoned campaign workers > >brag about how little they eat, how they had to wait till 6 PM to have > >breakfast, etc. > > My friend/boss is a small guy, maybe 5'6 " , and weighs > >less than 140 lbs., I'm sure. Also - his house is torn up because the > >contractor he hired to do improvements has been sued and spent the last two > >months in court, unable to do any work, his daughter (13) is failing in > >school and out of control, and all these things plus his work hours are > >putting a big strain on his marriage. > > Tuesday was the primary election, > >and we (and others) spent ten hours working before going to the victory > >party. He had what I perceived to be two drinks and had to be sent home in > >a cab. I thought it was stress and lack of sleep, plus alcohol. > > When > >the candidate made his acceptance speech, after his opponent had conceded, I > >ran into a friend in the public party. She asked where my boss was. I said > >he had been poured into a cab and taken home (unfortunate phraseology). She > >said, " Oh, then he does have a drinking problem! " I said that of course he > >didn't, I'd never seen him drink before. She insisted, so I took her into > >the private suite and asked her what the hell she was talking about. > > She > >said someone, whose name she couldn't divulge (don't you hate it when people > >do that?) had told her my boss had a drinking problem. She said the > >problems with the daughter, the wife and the house were all caused by > >alcohol. I couldn't convince her otherwise. > > Today my boss dropped by my > >house and I told him what she had said. I wasn't sure I should, but I > >thought he ought to know that this story was circulating. He told me that > >in fact, he had been in AA from '84 to '98, hadn't drunk a drop for 14 > >years, and the stress from the two campaigns he'd worked on since then had > >driven him over the edge. I said 14 years ago wasn't yesterday and I would > >have responded the same way even if I had known that before this woman laid > >this on me. He thanked me for my support, said that he'd just been to a > >meeting. He said it helped him gain perspective. > > Oh, well. Feedback, > >anyone? > > --- > Kayleigh > >> > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > > >'---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > >> > >At 06:37 PM 5/6/99 > >-0700, you wrote: > >>You're not serious, are you? You can't be serious. > > >>>--- > >>Kayleigh > > > >No, I wasn't being serious. I was saying in a > >roundabout way that > > " surrendering " to AA and having a sponsor is like > >letting someone else > >having your brain. Well actually it IS letting > >someone else have your brain. > > > >Joe Berenbaum > > > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service > >Automatic, Safe, Reliable > >Backup and Restores. FREE for > >30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to > >win a Palm Pilot V! > >http://clickhere./click/218 > > > >eGroup > >home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/12-step-free > >http://www.eGroups.com - > >Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > >> > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > > >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service > Automatic, Safe, Reliable Backup > >and Restores. FREE for > 30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a > >Palm Pilot V! > http://clickhere./click/218 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 fleishe1@... writes: > I had the same thing happened to me. I knew a woman in AA who had > been raped... > > Her sponsor told her to " Find Out Where She Was Responsible " !!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder how many times this has happened, for I also know someone who got a similar response after being raped. I don't know if I've ever heard anything quite so nauseating being presented in the guise of " helping " someone. Regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 1999 Report Share Posted May 12, 1999 I had the same thing happened to me. I knew a woman in AA who had been raped... Her sponsor told her to " Find Out Where She Was Responsible " !!!!!!!!!!!!! The woman confided this to me, and I told her that her sponsor was NUTS and suggested she find a new sponsor... That also, was the beginning of the end of AA for me Jay > In a message dated 5/8/99 6:57:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > joe-b@... writes: > > > Some AA woman I knew who no longer calls me > > (I wonder why) once told me that she was the victim of a sexual assault > > and she talked to and he told her to take her inventory. Now that > > tell you something, doesn't it. > > AA is full of people, in my opinion, who are at least one brick shy of a > load. At every single meeting I went to (for about six months), I kept > thinking to myself, " These people are way weird. " > > I would come home from AA meetings with spitting headaches from the > tension, and totally depressed, thinking, " What a bunch of losers and > idiots. " > > As you probably have guess by now, I could just never get into it. <g> > > I knew I certainly didn't want to be like them, so I went down the bar. At > least with the people there, I could relate, have a normal conversation, > and laugh! They seemed so refreshingly human and NORMAL. > > Henders > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Weather Underground. We provide weather across the world. Visit > http://clickhere./click/48 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 1999 Report Share Posted May 13, 1999 Thanks for saying " well done, " but I was not in charge of the negotiations, though I participated actively and had lots of motivation for having it turn out well. I'm honestly as amazed as you are that people thought lunch is for wimps. Here we are in a country that subsidizes lunch for schoolchildren, because lunch is so important, but refuses to acknowledge that adults need to eat too. ly, I think that this country, educationwise, workwise, and healthwise is pretty f****d up right now. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Hi Kayleigh > >Very pleased to hear your positive story about 'lunch is >for winners'. well done for sorting that negotiation out. >however, to this brit it still sounds amazing that your >innovation was have ppl eat *at all*, not actually have a >break to eat in! > >Pete, who is never going to be a millionaire.... > > >On Sat, 08 May 1999 11:37:08 -0700 Kayleigh S > wrote: > >> Actually he told me he had four drinks. He must have drunk them mighty fast for me to have only seen two. But I agree about the exhaustion, and I agree with your point about tolerance. Even if he hadn't been exhausted, I think the stress over his daughter, his house and his wife would have sunk him. >> >> He was out of that party so fast that I doubt many people noticed anything wrong. But he really was afraid he would be fired the next day (he wasn't). >> >> The " lunch is for wimps " philosophy sucks. A few years ago I was in negotiations in a lawsuit that had 30 parties. That's a lot of parties, and if you're going to successfully negotiate they all have to get something they want and perceive that what the other folks want and get doesn't hurt them. The first day, we were told we could wrap things up before noon. On the first day of the third week, I said, " Look, let's be reasonable. We've been starving for two weeks and it's really damaged our reasoning capability. " So we actually ordered lunch and ate it, while negotiating, of course. After negotiating for two more weeks we reached a settlement, and I was pretty proud of it, to be honest, because getting 30 parties to agree isn't easy. Meanwhile, we all acknowledged reality and ate lunch. >> >> I think the workaholic and downsizing ethic has done untold damage to American workers and American productivity. I remember reading a couple days ago that so many workers would take the day off to see the new Star Wars movie that it would cost us $263 million in productivity. Why not turn it around and say it puts $263 million into the economy? People think the more you work, the more productive you are, and it just ain't true. I am quite sure that productivity slips bigtime when people just contemplate the 14 hour day ahead of them. >> --- >> Kayleigh >> >> Zz >> zZ >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >> >> >> >> >> >Hi Kayleigh >> > >> >From your description the exhaustion alone could explain why two drinks >> >affected this guy so badly. Active problem drinkers usually show *greater* >> >tolerance for alcohol. Of course, AA thinking has primed him for a lapse >> >under pressure of course. it's very sad that this could hurt his reputation. >> > >> >'Lunch is for wimps' seems to be part of the AMerican ethos. I am reading a >> >book given to me by my OA ex called 'Go For It: find Success in Study, Work >> >and Love " which basically seems to be abt turning yourself into an anorexic >> >workaholic. >> > >> >P. >> > >> >On Thu, 06 May 1999 20:02:17 -0700 Kayleigh S >> >wrote: >> > >> >> Glad to hear it. >> >> >> >> Actually, I'm pretty upset about something that happened a few days ago >> >with a friend of mine, that happens to be the guy I work for. > >> >> I'm working for a political campaign, and campaigns have their own logic >> >and attract a certain kind of worker that is able to work hours on end >> >without eating. Needless to say, they're young. They kid about the >> >campaign diet being coffee, doughnuts, pizza and beer. I myself am a firm >> >believer in eating decently at regular times. But seasoned campaign workers >> >brag about how little they eat, how they had to wait till 6 PM to have >> >breakfast, etc. > > My friend/boss is a small guy, maybe 5'6 " , and weighs >> >less than 140 lbs., I'm sure. Also - his house is torn up because the >> >contractor he hired to do improvements has been sued and spent the last two >> >months in court, unable to do any work, his daughter (13) is failing in >> >school and out of control, and all these things plus his work hours are >> >putting a big strain on his marriage. > > Tuesday was the primary election, >> >and we (and others) spent ten hours working before going to the victory >> >party. He had what I perceived to be two drinks and had to be sent home in >> >a cab. I thought it was stress and lack of sleep, plus alcohol. > > When >> >the candidate made his acceptance speech, after his opponent had conceded, I >> >ran into a friend in the public party. She asked where my boss was. I said >> >he had been poured into a cab and taken home (unfortunate phraseology). She >> >said, " Oh, then he does have a drinking problem! " I said that of course he >> >didn't, I'd never seen him drink before. She insisted, so I took her into >> >the private suite and asked her what the hell she was talking about. > > She >> >said someone, whose name she couldn't divulge (don't you hate it when people >> >do that?) had told her my boss had a drinking problem. She said the >> >problems with the daughter, the wife and the house were all caused by >> >alcohol. I couldn't convince her otherwise. > > Today my boss dropped by my >> >house and I told him what she had said. I wasn't sure I should, but I >> >thought he ought to know that this story was circulating. He told me that >> >in fact, he had been in AA from '84 to '98, hadn't drunk a drop for 14 >> >years, and the stress from the two campaigns he'd worked on since then had >> >driven him over the edge. I said 14 years ago wasn't yesterday and I would >> >have responded the same way even if I had known that before this woman laid >> >this on me. He thanked me for my support, said that he'd just been to a >> >meeting. He said it helped him gain perspective. > > Oh, well. Feedback, >> >anyone? > > --- > Kayleigh >> >> > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > >> >'---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > >> >> > >At 06:37 PM 5/6/99 >> >-0700, you wrote: > >>You're not serious, are you? You can't be serious. > >> >>>--- > >>Kayleigh > > > >No, I wasn't being serious. I was saying in a >> >roundabout way that > > " surrendering " to AA and having a sponsor is like >> >letting someone else > >having your brain. Well actually it IS letting >> >someone else have your brain. > > > >Joe Berenbaum > > >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service > >Automatic, Safe, Reliable >> >Backup and Restores. FREE for > >30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to >> >win a Palm Pilot V! > >http://clickhere./click/218 > > > >eGroup >> >home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/12-step-free > >http://www.eGroups.com - >> >Simplifying group communications > > > > > > >> >> > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > >> >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service > Automatic, Safe, Reliable Backup >> >and Restores. FREE for > 30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a >> >Palm Pilot V! > http://clickhere./click/218 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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