Guest guest Posted April 27, 1999 Report Share Posted April 27, 1999 At 07:09 PM 4/27/99 -0700, Kayleigh S wrote: >Hi, Henders, > >Did you ever ask the police to investigate this stuff? Was stalking illegal in your state at the time this happened? I don't know about Henders, but in Georgia there was an anti-stalking law passed in the early 1990's. Here's an idea of what to tell police, only partly tongue-in-cheek, in such a situation (police are likely to know something about and be favorable to AA): " They may tell you they are AA members and are only trying to help me. They are actually cult members trying to recruit me back after I left the cult. " Later, before going to court, explain to your lawyer why you did this, emphasizing that you did not lie to the police. ----- <http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley> New and Improved! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 1999 Report Share Posted April 27, 1999 Why not say to the police, " I don't have any idea who's doing this, but it's scaring me to death. " Let the police find out who it is, and let the people doing it offer an explanation. No matter how favorable you feel towards AA, it's difficult to buy the idea that disabling someone's porch light will convince them to return. There's a slippage there, and I think even police and judges would fail to be convinced, whether they're pro-AA, neutral, or just plain ignorant. I don't recall all the details of Henders' story, and I've deleted it now (I know I could go to the archives), however, it's hard to believe that if there were stalking laws, the police could ignore it. If there were no stalking laws, however, as I can testify from personal experience, the police will not waste any time on it. Hence my question. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >At 07:09 PM 4/27/99 -0700, Kayleigh S wrote: >>Hi, Henders, >> >>Did you ever ask the police to investigate this stuff? Was stalking >illegal in your state at the time this happened? > > > I don't know about Henders, but in Georgia there was an anti-stalking law >passed in the early 1990's. > Here's an idea of what to tell police, only partly tongue-in-cheek, in >such a situation (police are likely to know something about and be favorable >to AA): " They may tell you they are AA members and are only trying to help >me. They are actually cult members trying to recruit me back after I left >the cult. " Later, before going to court, explain to your lawyer why you did >this, emphasizing that you did not lie to the police. > >----- ><http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley> New and Improved! > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Does your free web site address contain more letters than the alphabet? >Register a domain name with DomainDirect. A domain with NO hosting fees. >Visit http://clickhere./click/49 for full details. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 1999 Report Share Posted April 28, 1999 In a message dated 4/27/99 7:10:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayleighs@... writes: > > Did you ever ask the police to investigate this stuff? Hi Kayleigh, No. I was afraid they would think I was nuts. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 1999 Report Share Posted April 28, 1999 Perhaps I am on thin ice here -- but where was your husband when all of this was happening? --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >In a message dated 4/27/99 7:10:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >kayleighs@... writes: > >> >> Did you ever ask the police to investigate this stuff? > >Hi Kayleigh, > >No. I was afraid they would think I was nuts. > >Henders > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Does your free web site address contain more letters than the alphabet? >Register a domain name with DomainDirect. A domain with NO hosting fees. >Visit http://clickhere./click/49 for full details. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 1999 Report Share Posted April 29, 1999 Those bastards >Hello ex-steppers and lurkers, > >My story, for those of you who haven't heard it, is hard to believe, but I >assure you, this tale is 100 percent the truth... Hi Henders, Yes, it is hard to believe. Have you considered the possibility that you actually were paranoid? Paranoia is a pretty common effect of heavy drinking, especially when we are stressed and when people are starting to " get on our case. " It happened to me, and it has happened to a few other people that I have known too. Usually it just goes away with a little sober time. The things you describe all seem to have possible explanations that do not involve intentional efforts by steppers. Lots of people get strange phone calls. Lots of people look out one office window and into another out of boredom or curiosity, and then turn away when they see that their watching has been noticed. Sometimes cars get stuck in a moving traffic clot for no reason. Light bulbs unscrew themselves. I don't know why, but they really do. Perhaps there is some physicist reading this list who could explain how it happens. Maybe you just had a bulb that didn't fit very well, and hanging upside down, outside, exposed to varying temperatures and wind, yours unscrewed itself every day for a month. To me, not knowing you, and reading your account over the net, it seems a good deal more likely that the correct explanation is coincidence, natural causes, and a mild alcohol-induced paranoia than that it was orchestrated by a bunch of steppers (who tend to be weird but too confused and unorganized to carry out such a thing.) Furthermore, I've been there. At one time I could not shake the conviction that the Arkansas Commissioner of Insurance had hired Pinkerton men to watch my every move (and I lived in Massachusetts!) Anybody in a parked car on my street just had to be some sort of spy. I 'overheard' conversations about me that, looking back, were completely imaginary. This kind of stuff kept me in a state of virtual terror for weeks on end -- and of course I thought I was losing my mind too. But I know now that it was just the effect -- physical and psychological -- of my drinking habit. -- Wally ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 1999 Report Share Posted May 1, 1999 I suppose I should apologize for this misunderstanding, and for not being clear. I quoted the phrase " words can kill " out of context, and didn't express the original meaning behind it. What it means is not quite what it says. But then that's probably true of much of what AA members say... At 09:40 PM 4/30/99 -0700, Kayleigh S wrote: >What is your objection to the saying " Words can kill? " In my experience, AA'ers claim that sticks and stones will break their bones but words will never hurt them. I've heard that thought expressed consistently in meetings, if not usually in that way. It's more along the lines of " as long as I'm spiritually fit, what others do and say doesn't affect me " . If this goes along with what you're saying, that this is a false idea and that what other people say DOES affect an individual, Thinking back to the context, the " words can kill " comment had to do with correctly 'carrying the message' of AA. This had nothing to do with how you told someone something, or the exact words you used, but the content of your message. If it isn't the message of AA, it (supposedly) won't help them get sober, and so they could die. > I can tell you for sure, that if my husband comes into the house and says, " Bitch! Do the dishes! " it has a very different effect than if he comes into the house and says, " Hi, honey, are you going to do the dishes before dinner? " > Suppose your husband (or rather, a fictionalized husband, a member and believer of 12-step, for this demonstration) believed that if you didn't do the dishes you could die from 'alcoholism' or something, and this would be the worst thing in the world that could happen. He may ask you nicely, but if you are the least bit reluctant or hesitant he may start to pressure you, and give you a lecture on why you should do the dishes. In this case, whether or not you do the dishes is much more important to your husband than your feeling are, or any negative reaction to what he says. It's now clear (to me, and I hope those reading this) that I quoted what was said ( " words can kill " ), and not what was meant ([non-AA] ideas can kill). ----- <http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley> New and Improved! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 1999 Report Share Posted May 2, 1999 I haven't heard a peep from my AA friends who still attend meetings. I held on to a sponsor as I weaned off then realized that I would do my self-esteem a great service if I just made independent decisions, and simply learned from them when wrong like other adults do. There's something scary to the AAs about an adult who can think independently. Rather than being a good example of what to aspire to, I am seem more like the " devil's spawn " . I'm reading a great book on Combatting Cult Mind Control. There's just so much that applies to AA. Checking one's thoughts with an elder member... the breaking down of the old self, implementation of a new self and the refreezeing of the new personality. It gives me shivers everytime someone posts something on dejanews or elsewhere that makes them sound like they've turned into a Hazelden pamphlet. AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!! PS, the book is " Combatting Cult Mind Control " , by Steve Hassan. He's a cult exit counselor, his site is www.freedomofmind.com He's writing a new book about helping people under mind control. He's an ex Moonie who has devoted his career to helping people exit mind control groups. Interesting guy. Apple AAdeprogramming wrote: Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=3983 > One of the many things I am astounded at RE AA is where are all those > people that offered their help, now. > You see, I have not attended an AA meeting in months ( I did for several > years), and none of my AA friends have given me a call. > They all assume that I am out drinking, but I am not! Maybe I died, > maybe I got run over by a bus, Maybe I got hit in the head by a 747, but > they all assume I'm out drinking. Seems you become invisible if you stop > attending... So much for the " caring Part of AA.. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 1999 Report Share Posted May 4, 1999 In a message dated 4/30/99 3:21:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fransway29@... writes: > > I have no doubt that a seemingly respectable AA member could > harass someone the way Henders was harassed, especially if > they think they can save someone, or that lives are at stake. > Some of these > folks have squads of sponsees who will do anything they say. > > Absolutely. I know that some of my tormentors were new inductees into AA. I recently asked someone whatever happened to one of the guys ( C.), who I now know was part of the group harassing me in 1995. At the time he had been in AA less than six months. I found out that he's been fired from his last two (good) jobs, then got a job at the Dolphin Strip Club in Portland as an escort driver/bouncer, and is now whacked out on crack. Could this mean the Program is not working? Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 1999 Report Share Posted May 4, 1999 In a message dated 4/30/99 4:59:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fleishe1@... writes: > Seems you become invisible if you stop > attending... Lucky you! Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 1999 Report Share Posted May 4, 1999 In a message dated 5/2/99 3:35:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, appledtp@... writes: > PS, the book is " Combating Cult Mind Control, " by Steve Hassan. He's a cult > exit counselor, his site is www.freedomofmind.com Yes, this is a great book and it helped me a lot. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 1999 Report Share Posted May 4, 1999 In a message dated 5/1/99 9:01:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, benbradley@... writes: > He may ask you nicely, but > if you are the least bit reluctant or hesitant he may start to pressure you, > and give you a lecture on why you should do the dishes. In this case, > whether or not you do the dishes is much more important to your husband > than your feeling are, or any negative reaction to what he says. I think it's referred to as " tough love, " or some such nonsense. Intentionally hurting people, whether it's emotionally or physically, is wrong, in my opinion, no matter what. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 1999 Report Share Posted May 4, 1999 wrote: Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=4009 > In a message dated 4/30/99 3:21:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > fransway29@... writes: > Silly Henders... HE'S not working the Program... (g) Apple > I found out that he's been fired from his last two (good) jobs, then got a > job at the Dolphin Strip Club in Portland as an escort driver/bouncer, and is > now whacked out on crack. > > Could this mean the Program is not working? > > Henders > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 Before I remarried I dated a guy I met in AA who insisted there was never any reason to get angry. I think we'd all still be living in caves if no one ever got angry. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >That was always so friggin' annoying... if I get run over by a car, I " choose " to scream in pain. If I get fired unexpectedly it's " my choice " to be upset. Why does AA try to mill these superhumans who have abnormal reactions to ordinary life situations? Why don't the AAs who object to my site " choose " not to be upset? I think it's a scream when I get mail that says " I'm not recovered enough not to get angry about your site " . I usually tell 'em that the old AA cookie cutter did a nice job on their personality seeing how they think they're ever gonna attain a state of being which is devoid of the less popular human emotions. >Apple > > wrote: >Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=3989 >> Okay, I see what you mean, but I've never heard that one. I know the " spiritually fit, blah, blah, blah, " line very well. I once had the pleasure of being at a meeting where a respected member with many years said, " This is just bullshit! I'm responsible for what I say and how it affects people! " (Naturally the topic was some misunderstanding another member had had with somebody, and the group was assuring him that it was " their problem, not your problem, if they choose to be upset. " Yeah, right.) >> --- >> Kayleigh >> >> Zz >> zZ >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >> >> >> >> >> > I suppose I should apologize for this misunderstanding, and for not >> >being clear. I quoted the phrase " words can kill " out of context, and >> >didn't express the original meaning behind it. What it means is not quite >> >what it says. >> > But then that's probably true of much of what AA members say... >> > >> >At 09:40 PM 4/30/99 -0700, Kayleigh S wrote: >> >>What is your objection to the saying " Words can kill? " In my experience, >> >AA'ers claim that sticks and stones will break their bones but words will >> >never hurt them. >> > >> > I've heard that thought expressed consistently in meetings, if not >> >usually in that way. It's more along the lines of " as long as I'm >> >spiritually fit, what others do and say doesn't affect me " . If this goes >> >along with what you're saying, that this is a false idea and that what >> >other people say DOES affect an individual, >> > Thinking back to the context, the " words can kill " comment had to do with >> >correctly 'carrying the message' of AA. This had nothing to do with how you >> >told someone something, or the exact words you used, but the content of >> >your message. If it isn't the message of AA, it (supposedly) won't help >> >them get sober, and so they could die. >> > >> >> I can tell you for sure, that if my husband comes into the house and >> >says, " Bitch! Do the dishes! " it has a very different effect than if he >> >comes into the house and says, " Hi, honey, are you going to do the dishes >> >before dinner? " >> >> >> > >> > Suppose your husband (or rather, a fictionalized husband, a member and >> >believer of 12-step, for this demonstration) believed that if you didn't do >> >the dishes you could die from 'alcoholism' or something, and this would be >> >the worst thing in the world that could happen. He may ask you nicely, but >> >if you are the least bit reluctant or hesitant he may start to pressure you, >> >and give you a lecture on why you should do the dishes. In this case, >> >whether or not you do the dishes is much more important to your husband >> >than your feeling are, or any negative reaction to what he says. >> > It's now clear (to me, and I hope those reading this) that I quoted >> >what was said ( " words can kill " ), and not what was meant ([non-AA] ideas >> >can kill). >> > >> >----- >> ><http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley> New and Improved! >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >The Weather Underground. We provide weather across the world. >> >Visit http://clickhere./click/48 >> > >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 You're not serious, are you? You can't be serious. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >At 06:08 PM 5/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Before I remarried I dated a guy I met in AA who insisted there was never >any reason to get angry. I think we'd all still be living in caves if no >one ever got angry. >>--- >>Kayleigh > >He has a point. Why get angry when someone else is keeping your brain in a >bucket? Better to just lie there and soak up all that nice corn oil. > >Joe Berenbaum > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service >Automatic, Safe, Reliable Backup and Restores. FREE for >30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a Palm Pilot V! >http://clickhere./click/218 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 At 06:08 PM 5/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >Before I remarried I dated a guy I met in AA who insisted there was never any reason to get angry. I think we'd all still be living in caves if no one ever got angry. >--- >Kayleigh He has a point. Why get angry when someone else is keeping your brain in a bucket? Better to just lie there and soak up all that nice corn oil. Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 Glad to hear it. Actually, I'm pretty upset about something that happened a few days ago with a friend of mine, that happens to be the guy I work for. I'm working for a political campaign, and campaigns have their own logic and attract a certain kind of worker that is able to work hours on end without eating. Needless to say, they're young. They kid about the campaign diet being coffee, doughnuts, pizza and beer. I myself am a firm believer in eating decently at regular times. But seasoned campaign workers brag about how little they eat, how they had to wait till 6 PM to have breakfast, etc. My friend/boss is a small guy, maybe 5'6 " , and weighs less than 140 lbs., I'm sure. Also - his house is torn up because the contractor he hired to do improvements has been sued and spent the last two months in court, unable to do any work, his daughter (13) is failing in school and out of control, and all these things plus his work hours are putting a big strain on his marriage. Tuesday was the primary election, and we (and others) spent ten hours working before going to the victory party. He had what I perceived to be two drinks and had to be sent home in a cab. I thought it was stress and lack of sleep, plus alcohol. When the candidate made his acceptance speech, after his opponent had conceded, I ran into a friend in the public party. She asked where my boss was. I said he had been poured into a cab and taken home (unfortunate phraseology). She said, " Oh, then he does have a drinking problem! " I said that of course he didn't, I'd never seen him drink before. She insisted, so I took her into the private suite and asked her what the hell she was talking about. She said someone, whose name she couldn't divulge (don't you hate it when people do that?) had told her my boss had a drinking problem. She said the problems with the daughter, the wife and the house were all caused by alcohol. I couldn't convince her otherwise. Today my boss dropped by my house and I told him what she had said. I wasn't sure I should, but I thought he ought to know that this story was circulating. He told me that in fact, he had been in AA from '84 to '98, hadn't drunk a drop for 14 years, and the stress from the two campaigns he'd worked on since then had driven him over the edge. I said 14 years ago wasn't yesterday and I would have responded the same way even if I had known that before this woman laid this on me. He thanked me for my support, said that he'd just been to a meeting. He said it helped him gain perspective. Oh, well. Feedback, anyone? --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >At 06:37 PM 5/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >>You're not serious, are you? You can't be serious. >>--- >>Kayleigh > >No, I wasn't being serious. I was saying in a roundabout way that > " surrendering " to AA and having a sponsor is like letting someone else >having your brain. Well actually it IS letting someone else have your brain. > >Joe Berenbaum > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service >Automatic, Safe, Reliable Backup and Restores. FREE for >30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a Palm Pilot V! >http://clickhere./click/218 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 1999 Report Share Posted May 6, 1999 At 06:37 PM 5/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >You're not serious, are you? You can't be serious. >--- >Kayleigh No, I wasn't being serious. I was saying in a roundabout way that " surrendering " to AA and having a sponsor is like letting someone else having your brain. Well actually it IS letting someone else have your brain. Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 1999 Report Share Posted May 7, 1999 London AA hads a gut who is famous for saying: " I've never had a bad day in recovery " . He has had 3 heart atttacks. He is also famous for runningh a meeting like a tyrant and having 150 sponsees, and a fondness for sponsoring young men P. > Before I remarried I dated a guy I met in AA who insisted there was never any reason to get angry. I think we'd all still be living in caves if no one ever got angry. > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >That was always so friggin' annoying... if I get run over by a car, I " choose " to scream in pain. If I get fired unexpectedly it's " my choice " to be upset. Why does AA try to mill these superhumans who have abnormal reactions to ordinary life situations? Why don't the AAs who object to my site " choose " not to be upset? I think it's a scream when I get mail that says " I'm not recovered enough not to get angry about your site " . I usually tell 'em that the old AA cookie cutter did a nice job on their personality seeing how they think they're ever gonna attain a state of being which is devoid of the less popular human emotions. > >Apple > > > > wrote: > >Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=3989 > >> Okay, I see what you mean, but I've never heard that one. I know the " spiritually fit, blah, blah, blah, " line very well. I once had the pleasure of being at a meeting where a respected member with many years said, " This is just bullshit! I'm responsible for what I say and how it affects people! " (Naturally the topic was some misunderstanding another member had had with somebody, and the group was assuring him that it was " their problem, not your problem, if they choose to be upset. " Yeah, right.) > >> --- > >> Kayleigh > >> > >> Zz > >> zZ > >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ > >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I suppose I should apologize for this misunderstanding, and for not > >> >being clear. I quoted the phrase " words can kill " out of context, and > >> >didn't express the original meaning behind it. What it means is not quite > >> >what it says. > >> > But then that's probably true of much of what AA members say... > >> > > >> >At 09:40 PM 4/30/99 -0700, Kayleigh S wrote: > >> >>What is your objection to the saying " Words can kill? " In my experience, > >> >AA'ers claim that sticks and stones will break their bones but words will > >> >never hurt them. > >> > > >> > I've heard that thought expressed consistently in meetings, if not > >> >usually in that way. It's more along the lines of " as long as I'm > >> >spiritually fit, what others do and say doesn't affect me " . If this goes > >> >along with what you're saying, that this is a false idea and that what > >> >other people say DOES affect an individual, > >> > Thinking back to the context, the " words can kill " comment had to do with > >> >correctly 'carrying the message' of AA. This had nothing to do with how you > >> >told someone something, or the exact words you used, but the content of > >> >your message. If it isn't the message of AA, it (supposedly) won't help > >> >them get sober, and so they could die. > >> > > >> >> I can tell you for sure, that if my husband comes into the house and > >> >says, " Bitch! Do the dishes! " it has a very different effect than if he > >> >comes into the house and says, " Hi, honey, are you going to do the dishes > >> >before dinner? " > >> >> > >> > > >> > Suppose your husband (or rather, a fictionalized husband, a member and > >> >believer of 12-step, for this demonstration) believed that if you didn't do > >> >the dishes you could die from 'alcoholism' or something, and this would be > >> >the worst thing in the world that could happen. He may ask you nicely, but > >> >if you are the least bit reluctant or hesitant he may start to pressure you, > >> >and give you a lecture on why you should do the dishes. In this case, > >> >whether or not you do the dishes is much more important to your husband > >> >than your feeling are, or any negative reaction to what he says. > >> > It's now clear (to me, and I hope those reading this) that I quoted > >> >what was said ( " words can kill " ), and not what was meant ([non-AA] ideas > >> >can kill). > >> > > >> >----- > >> ><http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley> New and Improved! > >> > > >> > > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >The Weather Underground. We provide weather across the world. > >> >Visit http://clickhere./click/48 > >> > > >> > > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 1999 Report Share Posted May 7, 1999 Hi Kayleigh From your description the exhaustion alone could explain why two drinks affected this guy so badly. Active problem drinkers usually show *greater* tolerance for alcohol. Of course, AA thinking has primed him for a lapse under pressure of course. it's very sad that this could hurt his reputation. 'Lunch is for wimps' seems to be part of the AMerican ethos. I am reading a book given to me by my OA ex called 'Go For It: find Success in Study, Work and Love " which basically seems to be abt turning yourself into an anorexic workaholic. P. On Thu, 06 May 1999 20:02:17 -0700 Kayleigh S wrote: > Glad to hear it. > > Actually, I'm pretty upset about something that happened a few days ago with a friend of mine, that happens to be the guy I work for. > > I'm working for a political campaign, and campaigns have their own logic and attract a certain kind of worker that is able to work hours on end without eating. Needless to say, they're young. They kid about the campaign diet being coffee, doughnuts, pizza and beer. I myself am a firm believer in eating decently at regular times. But seasoned campaign workers brag about how little they eat, how they had to wait till 6 PM to have breakfast, etc. > > My friend/boss is a small guy, maybe 5'6 " , and weighs less than 140 lbs., I'm sure. Also - his house is torn up because the contractor he hired to do improvements has been sued and spent the last two months in court, unable to do any work, his daughter (13) is failing in school and out of control, and all these things plus his work hours are putting a big strain on his marriage. > > Tuesday was the primary election, and we (and others) spent ten hours working before going to the victory party. He had what I perceived to be two drinks and had to be sent home in a cab. I thought it was stress and lack of sleep, plus alcohol. > > When the candidate made his acceptance speech, after his opponent had conceded, I ran into a friend in the public party. She asked where my boss was. I said he had been poured into a cab and taken home (unfortunate phraseology). She said, " Oh, then he does have a drinking problem! " I said that of course he didn't, I'd never seen him drink before. She insisted, so I took her into the private suite and asked her what the hell she was talking about. > > She said someone, whose name she couldn't divulge (don't you hate it when people do that?) had told her my boss had a drinking problem. She said the problems with the daughter, the wife and the house were all caused by alcohol. I couldn't convince her otherwise. > > Today my boss dropped by my house and I told him what she had said. I wasn't sure I should, but I thought he ought to know that this story was circulating. He told me that in fact, he had been in AA from '84 to '98, hadn't drunk a drop for 14 years, and the stress from the two campaigns he'd worked on since then had driven him over the edge. I said 14 years ago wasn't yesterday and I would have responded the same way even if I had known that before this woman laid this on me. He thanked me for my support, said that he'd just been to a meeting. He said it helped him gain perspective. > > Oh, well. Feedback, anyone? > > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >At 06:37 PM 5/6/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>You're not serious, are you? You can't be serious. > >>--- > >>Kayleigh > > > >No, I wasn't being serious. I was saying in a roundabout way that > > " surrendering " to AA and having a sponsor is like letting someone else > >having your brain. Well actually it IS letting someone else have your brain. > > > >Joe Berenbaum > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service > >Automatic, Safe, Reliable Backup and Restores. FREE for > >30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a Palm Pilot V! > >http://clickhere./click/218 > > > >eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/group/12-step-free > >http://www.eGroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > @Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service > Automatic, Safe, Reliable Backup and Restores. FREE for > 30 Days. INSTALL Now and have a chance to win a Palm Pilot V! > http://clickhere./click/218 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 1999 Report Share Posted May 9, 1999 There's another slogan -- 'what you think of me is none of my business'. I say if I was a Jewish person in Germany in the 1930's, it sure as hell was my business. AA has adopted these quotes from pop psychology self-help books and etched them in stone. Jan Re: Those bastards > I suppose I should apologize for this misunderstanding, and for not >being clear. I quoted the phrase " words can kill " out of context, and >didn't express the original meaning behind it. What it means is not quite >what it says. > But then that's probably true of much of what AA members say... > >At 09:40 PM 4/30/99 -0700, Kayleigh S wrote: >>What is your objection to the saying " Words can kill? " In my experience, >AA'ers claim that sticks and stones will break their bones but words will >never hurt them. > > I've heard that thought expressed consistently in meetings, if not >usually in that way. It's more along the lines of " as long as I'm >spiritually fit, what others do and say doesn't affect me " . If this goes >along with what you're saying, that this is a false idea and that what >other people say DOES affect an individual, > Thinking back to the context, the " words can kill " comment had to do with >correctly 'carrying the message' of AA. This had nothing to do with how you >told someone something, or the exact words you used, but the content of >your message. If it isn't the message of AA, it (supposedly) won't help >them get sober, and so they could die. > >> I can tell you for sure, that if my husband comes into the house and >says, " Bitch! Do the dishes! " it has a very different effect than if he >comes into the house and says, " Hi, honey, are you going to do the dishes >before dinner? " >> > > Suppose your husband (or rather, a fictionalized husband, a member and >believer of 12-step, for this demonstration) believed that if you didn't do >the dishes you could die from 'alcoholism' or something, and this would be >the worst thing in the world that could happen. He may ask you nicely, but >if you are the least bit reluctant or hesitant he may start to pressure you, >and give you a lecture on why you should do the dishes. In this case, >whether or not you do the dishes is much more important to your husband >than your feeling are, or any negative reaction to what he says. > It's now clear (to me, and I hope those reading this) that I quoted >what was said ( " words can kill " ), and not what was meant ([non-AA] ideas >can kill). > >----- ><http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley> New and Improved! > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Weather Underground. We provide weather across the world. >Visit http://clickhere./click/48 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 Liking to hear confessions from young men also seems to have been a predliction of Buchman apparently - especially what Buchman considered sexual vices. P. In a message dated 08/05/99 15:57:08 W. Europe Daylight Time, joe-b@... writes: << I know this man- . He is sincerely deluded. He also talks about the four absolutes in meetings, which is pure Oxford Group. Many AA/NA members regard him as a bit of a joke. I was actually sponsored by someone in his " chain " for a few years, and it was quite an experience. I will write something about that sponsor separately sometime. I really believed in this guy for a while. Scary... Some AA woman I knew who no longer calls me (I wonder why) once told me that she was the victim of a sexual assault and she talked to and he told her to take her inventory. Now that tell you something, doesn't it. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 In a message dated 5/6/99 6:11:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kayleighs@... writes: > I think we'd all still be living in caves if no one ever got angry. If no one had gotten pissed off at Hitler, I wonder where we'd be. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 In a message dated 5/7/99 7:49:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, awatt04@... writes: > Of course, AA thinking has primed him for a lapse > under pressure of course. It's very sad that this could hurt his reputation. This is what AA's thinking was in my situation, too: If they applied enough pressure, I would fall apart mentally, (which I did), and come crawling on my knees back to them (which I did not). I am not saying they also did this to Kayleigh's boss, but they can be like vultures, circling around an ex-member, almost gleefully waiting for him to fall. What makes me so angry, too, is that my boss has never been to my home or spent any time with me outside of the office, so whatever information he had about my using/drinking was pure gossip. And greatly exaggerated, I am sure. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 In a message dated 5/9/99 5:14:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, AppleDTP@... writes: > Sometimes I like to tell them that I'm planning a weekend retreat to visit > Bill 's grave, where I will leave a small moist brown parcel of > gratitude. Where is it? I'll join you. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 In a message dated 5/8/99 11:39:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kayleighs@... writes: > > I think the workaholic and downsizing ethic has done untold damage to > American workers and American productivity. I agree with you 100 percent. As for parents, it has done untold damage to children as well. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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