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Re: Proton Beam Therapy

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Hi ,

Let me tell you about my experience with PBT.

I can't speak highly enough about the technology and science. IF you

are a candidate for Proton Beam Therapy go for it. BUT, please be

careful which of the current five Proton Centers you choose.

I have recently completed a course of PBT at Loma University

Medical Center (hereinafter LLUMC) in SoCal. I had a little urinary

urgency and burning during the treatments, pretty much handled by

Flomax as prescribed by my assigned radonc, and ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER

SIDE EFFECTS (pardon my shouting).

I have not had my 4-month PSA yet, but I have faith in the technology.

PBT is the only modality that has any time-line track record. IMRT is

4-5 years old, Tomo is 2-3 years old. LLUMC has been doing this since

1990 give or take. It is an assembly line procedure. You can be in and

out of your daily treatment in less than an hour if the machinery is

working properly that day. Many of the guys had their treatment then

went to play golf, toured many of the interesting places in SoCal, the

locals went to work or did whatever else they wanted to do to pass the

time.

CAVEAT - you need a boatload of patience to be a Guest (euphemism for

patient) at LLUMC. The equipment is old, late 1980's vintage for the

most part. The technology was real high tech for that time, but is

more commonplace today. They mix analog and digital technology, which

has certain drawbacks, and things do break. They have (upon

information and belief) recently lost some senior technical staff to

other proton centers and have a lot of breakdowns, which last from a

few minutes to more than 36 hours in duration. If you have the

patience and can deal with the " Stepford Wives " type of information

presentation being supplied when you have a question and some of the

support services cheered on by Elmer Gantry incarnate then LLUMC has

the most experience. If your frustration level (I'm a type " A " ) sets

you off, check out some of the other centers before committing to LLUMC.

You can contact me off list: my email is < philwalchap at yahoo.com >

Have you contacted Proton Bob Marchini yet? his site is

http://www.protonbob.com/proton-treatment-homepage.asp .

He has many testimonials from people who have had proton treatment

over many years. I contacted about 10 of these guys by phone or email

before making my decision and I will tell you that they are all very

positive about the experience.

Best of luck to you,

Phil

===============================================

>

> Has anyone here had any experience with PBT...positive or negative?

>

> It has emerged as my first choice for treatment, but I do not want to

> make any hasty decisions.

>

> Thanks much.

>

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, I completed Proton Beam therapy at Loma on February 14th of this year. The only problem I had during treatment was a weak stream that was treated by Advil four times a day. Sexual intercourse was also a bit uncomfortable while I was undergoing treatment. I had my first follow up PSA in June and it dropped from 6.6 to 1.4. I feel great and have had no lingering side effects. The weak stream returned to normal (as did sexual function) about four weeks after treatment was finished. I stayed active during treatment, never missed a day of work and have remained active. I just changed jobs and relocated to Las Vegas. In short it did not slow me down at all. It was definately the right treatment for me and I would make the same decision again. You are right to take your time and consider everything. When you are sure of the direction you want to take, it is such a relief. Make your decision and do not

look back. Age 57 Gleason 3+3=6 Original PSA 6.6 (now 1.4) Shuey wrote: Has anyone here had any experience with PBT...positive or negative?It has emerged as my first choice for treatment, but I do not want to make any hasty decisions.Thanks much.

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Hi ,

This form of therapy has been very fully

discussed over the past three or four months – too fully some feel –

and if Fuller Joners was not on his vacation you would undoubtedly have had a

response from him. If you click on Messages at the fot of this mail and enter

Proton Beam in the search tool you will find over 300 postings that mention PB

paging through those, I am sure you’ll find a good deal of useful

information.

I also have a number of men, including

Fuller, who have shared their experiences on my websites at http://www.yananow.net/Radiation.htm#pb

Most of them are happy to correspond with anyone considering the treatment.

From all I have read, men who go to Loma

have a very high level of satisfaction with the outcome.

All the best,

Terry

Herbert in Melbourne, Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

3+3=6: No treatment. Jun '07 PSA 42.0 - Bony Metastasis.

My site is at www.yananow.net 

As a

physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard

to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data: Dr

“Snuffy” Myers.

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Shuey

Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2007

10:29 PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Proton Beam Therapy

Has anyone here had any experience with PBT...positive

or negative?

It has emerged as my first choice for treatment, but I do not want to

make any hasty decisions.

Thanks much.

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Hi Terry.I would be very interested in collecting information in our web based Medical Smart Chart.I am particularly interested in patients who had radiation with higher Gleason of 7 and above.Most studies follow patient only 5-10 years. There is a problem that many of the patients are lost up to follow up.

If we start now and input as many people on the Medical Smart Chart, perhaps in 10-15 years from now we will have valuable information about what happens to patients who have high Gleason and are more than 10 years after the radiation.

The interesting report by Dr Zeitman from Harvard is that the incidence of rectal cancer is higher in patients who underwent radiation to the prostate. This was found in the years 10-15 after the radiation. It was not a very high incidence, but it was the similar incidence of rectal cancer if you have members of your family with the disease. I am not bringing this example to scare readers, but to emphasize the fact , that it should be the duty of the Radiation Doctors to tell the patient about this remote possibility of developing rectal cancer. This should take place especially in young men undergoing radiation treatments to their prostate. Dr Zeitman himself was surprised about the findings. When things happen to a patient after more than 10 years, this information tends to be lost.

I am not sure that the rate of colorectal cancer due to radiation will increase or not over time. There are two factors here that may create different outcome in the future: 1. We became more sophisticated with the targeting of the prostate, we are better than 10 year ago, so could be that the rectum will get less radiation and hence less possible developing cancer. 2. We are giving higher doses of radiation , so the question how it will affect the incidence of rectal cancer.

The practical point of this discussion is the following: For some reason, patients after radiation, many of them neglect to do a Digital Rectal Examination 10 years after radiation, especially if they feel they were cured from prostate cancer. Another practical issue is the fact that some of the patients may develop some rectal bleeding and assume it is from radiation. So we can save those few who might develop rectal cancer, I would recommend everyone not to assume and have the colorectal areas checked carefully every year.

Having the digital exam, regardless how fearful or unpleasant , it is still part of good medicine to check once a year.Here is a little caveat reported to me personally by Dr Zeitman from Harvard. After 10 years of Proton Beam Radiation- they found a tremendous number of patients still having microscopic hematuria ( I think it was like 50%). There may be no clinical significance to a few red cells in the urine. But it does make the point that the effect of radiation linger in the body for decades and young men should be aware of this. The issue of radiating breasts of young men before taking Casodex, I will leave it for another note.

Overall, I had a very good and positive experience with the patients I sent to Loma over the years and Dr Rossi was always extremely caring physician. I also want to congratulate the members of this list. I think the level of materials presented over the years on this list keeps improving and it is impressive.

Keep doing to good work.YoursCoach BarkenOn 7/18/07, Terry Herbert <ghenesh_49@...

> wrote:

Hi ,

This form of therapy has been very fully

discussed over the past three or four months – too fully some feel –

and if Fuller Joners was not on his vacation you would undoubtedly have had a

response from him. If you click on Messages at the fot of this mail and enter

Proton Beam in the search tool you will find over 300 postings that mention PB

paging through those, I am sure you'll find a good deal of useful

information.

I also have a number of men, including

Fuller, who have shared their experiences on my websites at http://www.yananow.net/Radiation.htm#pb

Most of them are happy to correspond with anyone considering the treatment.

From all I have read, men who go to Loma

have a very high level of satisfaction with the outcome.

All the best,

Terry

Herbert in Melbourne, Australia

Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

3+3=6: No treatment. Jun '07 PSA 42.0 - Bony Metastasis.

My site is at

www.yananow.net

As a

physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard

to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data: Dr

"Snuffy" Myers.

From:

ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Shuey

Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2007

10:29 PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Proton Beam Therapy

Has anyone here had any experience with PBT...positive

or negative?

It has emerged as my first choice for treatment, but I do not want to

make any hasty decisions.

Thanks much.

-- Material posted here is for general education purposes only and does not take the place of medical advice from your treating physician. No patient-doctor relationship is created or implied.

Israel Barken, M.D. Medical Director Prostate Cancer Research and Eduction Foundation (PC-REF) 501©3 non profit organization 5480 Baltimore Drive, #202La Mesa, Ca. 91942

www.pcref.orginfo@...

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G’day Coach,

You’ve probably never been to my Yana site – why would you :- ) but if you had you

would know that there are almost 300 stories from men who share their

experience. A number of these have had radiation of some kind. If you go along

to http://www.yananow.net/Chart-Gleason.htm

you will see that all contributors are listed by Gleason Grade at diagnosis and

since their treatment choice is shown you would be able to identify and perhaps

mail the men concerned for data for your project.

Another interesting index of theses

stories is by Year of diagnosis – at http://www.yananow.net/Chart-Year.htm#year

this way of accessing the names would enable you to contact men who had

treatment more than ten years ago – although there are not many who had

radiation.

All the best,

Terry

Herbert in Melbourne, Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

3+3=6: No treatment. Jun '07 PSA 42.0 - Bony Metastasis.

My site is at www.yananow.net

As a

physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard

to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data: Dr

“Snuffy” Myers.

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Dr Barken PCREF Coach

Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2007 3:43

PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re: Proton Beam Therapy

Hi Terry.

I would be very interested in collecting information in our web based Medical

Smart Chart.

I am particularly interested in patients who had radiation with higher Gleason

of 7 and above.

Most studies follow patient only 5-10 years. There is a problem that many

of the patients are lost up to follow up.

If we start now and input as many people on the Medical Smart Chart, perhaps in

10-15 years from now we will have valuable information about what happens to

patients who have high Gleason and are more than 10 years after the radiation.

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Hi TerryThank you.I looked at the table with the 300 patients.First, I am not sure it would be alright for me to go and mine this information we need permission from the individuals and that will be a very tedious and very time consuming project..

Second, my time is maxed out with all the juggling of the projects that I am involved now.:-)I will probably will need to find time and call you directly and see what can be done and work out some solution to deal with the data.

Keep doing the excellent work.BTW- How are you doing, coping with your disease?YoursIsraelOn 7/18/07, Terry Herbert <

ghenesh_49@...> wrote:

G'day Coach,

You've probably never been to my Yana site – why would you :- ) but if you had you

would know that there are almost 300 stories from men who share their

experience. A number of these have had radiation of some kind. If you go along

to http://www.yananow.net/Chart-Gleason.htm

you will see that all contributors are listed by Gleason Grade at diagnosis and

since their treatment choice is shown you would be able to identify and perhaps

mail the men concerned for data for your project.

Another interesting index of theses

stories is by Year of diagnosis – at http://www.yananow.net/Chart-Year.htm#year

this way of accessing the names would enable you to contact men who had

treatment more than ten years ago – although there are not many who had

radiation.

All the best,

Terry

Herbert in Melbourne, Australia

Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

3+3=6: No treatment. Jun '07 PSA 42.0 - Bony Metastasis.

My site is at

www.yananow.net

As a

physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard

to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data: Dr

"Snuffy" Myers.

From:

ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Dr Barken PCREF Coach

Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2007 3:43

PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re: Proton Beam Therapy

Hi Terry.

I would be very interested in collecting information in our web based Medical

Smart Chart.

I am particularly interested in patients who had radiation with higher Gleason

of 7 and above.

Most studies follow patient only 5-10 years. There is a problem that many

of the patients are lost up to follow up.

If we start now and input as many people on the Medical Smart Chart, perhaps in

10-15 years from now we will have valuable information about what happens to

patients who have high Gleason and are more than 10 years after the radiation.

-- Material posted here is for general education purposes only and does not take the place of medical advice from your treating physician. No patient-doctor relationship is created or implied.

Israel Barken, M.D. Medical Director Prostate Cancer Research and Eduction Foundation (PC-REF) 501©3 non profit organization 5480 Baltimore Drive, #202La Mesa, Ca. 91942

www.pcref.orginfo@...

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Hi :

Now that I have a bit of rest, let me answer our request.

First what are your " numbers? " (PSA, Gleason, etc)

Are you in Texas? If so you have the option of the M. D.

proton facility at Houston

http://www.mdanderson.org/care_centers/radiationonco/ptc/

I completed my treatment at Loma University Medical Center on

March 8, 2007. So far NO side effects!

My friends Laurel and Greg were my neighbors while Greg and I received

our " daily dose of Protons " and Laurel has basically said it all in her

previous post.

I have written a book on protons and my experiences; my book is free to

prostate cancer patients for downloading, at

http://www.lulu.com/content/791195

Also, please go to www.protonbob.com and read the testimonials of over

one hundred proton patients; many received treatment several years ago.

As Terry sugested, study the YANA Site berfore making your decision.

We each have our individual way of dealing with situations and

problems, and I would say that you must make up your own mind what

treatment you choose, based on your disease characteristics and your

personal outlook on life and dealing with problems. As Dr. Barken

stated, this should not be a decision in isolation, your loved ones and

their own feelings and reactions should be considered.

Feel free to email me off forum with any questions

Fuller

>

> Has anyone here had any experience with PBT...positive or negative?

>

> It has emerged as my first choice for treatment, but I do not want to

> make any hasty decisions.

>

> Thanks much.

>

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