Guest guest Posted June 26, 1998 Report Share Posted June 26, 1998 Hi all, In response to an addict-ler who mocked my suggstion that AA is placebo effect. Ken: This was Jim, who you say " encouraged " you to publish your book (still reading, btw). he is increasingly encouraging me to set up a SMART meeting. the man works miracles! Ppl have been subjected to heart operations, tonsillectomies, lobotomies with no evidence of effectiveness. Thousands take homeopathic remedies of pure water, convinced they are effective. They hang crystals round their necks, and swear by astrology. They take vitamins unnecessarily and pee them straight down the pan. Ppl engage in the most ludicrous - and sometimes dangerous - nostrums and have done for centuries, convinced they are effective. that you, a clinician with scientific training, should refuse to apply the philosophy of science that created your profession in this area, is imho as disturbing as it is remarkable - and even more disturbing, that as floyd indicated, this incredible myopia probably includes the *majority* of ppl involved in the field - it has to, over 90% of treatment is 12-step based. How can a professional claim that MATCH shows that AA is effective when AA wasnt even *examined* by it, as apparently one is doing? and when this study was uncontrolled and hence did not in fact show the effectiveness of anything over Natural History? A staggering kind of mass hysteria has blighted medicine. I dont know if the sum total of the lobotomised matches the total in Jack stadium (perhaps they were the ppl in there) but many, many thousands of ppl were subjected to this procedure that doesnt just wash brains it destroys them. ironically one method used was to inject alcohol straight into the brain. > > Also for a man who hates 12 step promgrams he states that > he recently has returned to OA. Why? I explained that - OSHIT - Only SHow In Town. I probably wasnt going to post abt it here, but as youve brought it up, something very positive came out of that. I said my piece abt the Disease Model (but not the 12SP that I recall) and you can imagine the expressions on ppl's faces, and the platitudes that they spoke after me. I talked to a newcomer and found out that she hated the 12SP too and would love to be in a group that didnt use it. So, one new recruit already, without me even trying. given the 95% annual dropout rate from AA, and the increasing secularisation of society, or at least divergence from patriarchal monotheism, probably many of those ppl cant stick the 12SP either. of those who stick around, many may be there just because of OSHIT. Some will gradually be brainwashed (in fact, that seems to be almost the norm these days, rather than swift acceptance) but some remain a fifth column in the program. occasionally some are brave enough to speak up and take the flak. anyway, there is a very large pool of disaffected ppl, and more and more of them are going to find their way to the secular alternatives. I understand that the Catholic League of Decency once had 12.5 million members - the KKK 2.5 million. I'm not sure if the first even still exists. The Washingtonians once rode high and the OGM once rode high. The OGM lives on as a much-reduced MRA, and doubtless the 12SP will likely always be around in some form or other, but those imho the stadium will have more vacant seats in the years ahead. Pete - ---------------------- Cool Briton PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST: http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders _____________________ " Every great scientist is part B.F. Skinner and part P.T. Barnum " - Bart Simpson's science teacher - ----------------------------------------------------------- Post your messages to addict-l@... - ----------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe put- unsubscribe addict-L -in the body of a message to: listserv@... - ----------------------------------------------------------- List archives are at http://listserv.kent.edu/archives/addict-l.html - ----------------------------------------------------------- Send requests for help to addict-l-request@... - ----------------------------------------------------------- - --- End Forwarded Message --- Pete - ---------------------- Cool Briton PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST: http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders _____________________ " Every great scientist is part B.F. Skinner and part P.T. Barnum " - Bart Simpson's science teacher ------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1 --- End Forwarded Message --- Pete ---------------------- Cool Briton PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST: http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders _____________________ " Every great scientist is part B.F. Skinner and part P.T. Barnum " - Bart Simpson's science teacher ---- Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/ To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@... To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@... -- Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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