Re: updated stats Dr. Amy Holmes on Mercury Chelation for Aut...

July 19, 2001

I would like to throw this out there for those of you doing mercury detox

protocols. I have generally followed the recommendations of Dr. Holmes but

more recently switched to an every 4 hours protocol for my 10 year old

autistic son. I notice that there is a lot of confusion out there regarding

what to do. Dr. Bradstreet and his team insist that every 8 hours is o.k.,

Dr. Cutler insists on every 4 and Dr. Holmes says do whatever works. We

started off with long acting DMSA (Holmes) and pulled out a large amount of

mercury, cadmium, lead, nickel, and arsenic. We did this for 3 months until

not much mercury was coming out. We were doing 7 days on and 7 days off.

Chelation days were really tough especially towards the end of the 7 days.

The dose was 150 mg every 8 hours. We then switched to DMSA plus ALA and

tried several dosing regimens up to 300 mg three times a day of DMSA plus 100

mg ALA. Again a lot of mercury, cadmium, and lead were coming out in the

urine but as I read my E-Mails, I became convinced that lower doses every 4

hours was a better way to go. For the last 4 months until January this year,

I gave him 50 mg DMSA and 25 mg ALA every 4 hours Friday, Saturday, Sunday

and again saw large amounts of heavy metals in the test samples. Although

the chelation was helping, every time we would chelate, he would become very

agitated and this would last into the week so that his tutors and teachers

were becoming upset at what I was doing. I backed off of the chelation over

the past several months so he could begin a new school but as he is again

approaching vacation, I feel it is important to resume the chelation. This is

in particular because he still had moderate of levels of mercury, lead,

cadmium, nickel, and arsenic being excreted although these had been reduced

from when we began.

My question is two fold: Is there any consensus out there as to how best to

chelate an 85 pound 10 year old child who has mercury? Given the fact that he

would become agitated during the chelation periods, is there a way to

minimize this. I was told by one doctor that it could be due to overgrowth of

yeast or bacteria. Does this make sense and should this be treated? Is it

reasonable to try a Friday, Saturday, Sunday protocol to avoid effects during

school and should this be every week or every two weeks? Lastly, my son (and

I suspect many of these children) have difficulty absorbing zinc. The last

test on my son put his RBC zinc level and the lowest end of normal. What is

the best way to keep from becoming zinc depleted in this situation? Is it

safe to chelate under these circumstances? I hope to begin chelating again

when he goes on vacation after next week. I appreciate the responses of those

who have had experience with this.

By the way, the kinds of improvements I have seen with chelation have mostly

been in areas of awareness in the non-verbal area but they are not minimal.

For example, last year when we would talk about going out, my son would not

respond much. Now if I say we are going out, he immediately finds his clothes

including his shoes, puts them on and gets other things he needs. So he is

more aware of the situation and can respond to it. He also understands what

is being said. He can talk but often does not use his speech. I am hoping

that by continuing chelation he will improve in this area.

Thanks.

Sokolski, M.D.

July 19, 2001

Andy,

would any of this be similar to what Dr. Goldberg is doing with ?

In a message dated 7/19/2001 7:04:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

AndyCutler@... writes:

<<N eurosteroids, which are DHEA< pregnenolone, and testosterone.

Supraphysiological doses are probably needed.

Nootrpics, like vinpocetine, hydergine, ginkgo, etc.

Nerve growth facctor and its stimulators, e.g. forskolin, lipoic acid

(an effect independent of chelation and apparently at much higher

doses).

I haven't looked into this in great detail. I'd appreciate any info

others have >>

July 20, 2001

Ken, our son too is 10 yrs old (104 pounds) and we have chelated since

10/23/00. We never had a step 1 - but from the beginning used both, Chemet

and ALA. We tried different dosages, but for the most part, we use 100mg

Chemet and 50 mg ALA every 3 hours on Friday, Sat and Sunday. We go " off "

for 4 days and then start chelating again. In the beginning I noted that

the 3rd and 4th " off " days were days when he was agitated or crabby. After

chelating for about 5 months, his disposition became better and this

crabbyness went away. After 4 months of chelating, Adam began non-stop

laughing. In school (general ed classes) he refused to work and was saying

" boring " over and over. We treated this suspected yeast/clostridium with

some left over nizarol, probio gold and cranberry extract. In 4 days, he was

excellent, talkative and very very aware again.....we then switched to

Amphotericin B compounded tablets for 14 days. The laughing completely went

away . When we restarted chelation after 1 month off (for the

nizarol/amphotericin regime) my 12 yr old NT daughter knew immediately

(without telling her) that he had begun chelation because he was talking up

a storm in the garage. Chelation caused much more natural and appropriate

conversation in him.

(he is PDD NOS and had many years of ABA). It also made him much more aware

of people and things around him, like an awakening. It brought him memory

and recall of past events, and SOME improvement in his school work.

Downside: He still has bad pronunciation but it has improved some. He still

needs adderall to be attentive and less hyper., we have also added FGF

injections since March and noticed a Big spurt in language after 1 or 2 days

of the injection. Now, after 4 months of FGF, we notice

greater ease of talking....both chelation and fgf are working. Hopes this

helps some.

Aly

Re: [ ]updated stats Dr. Amy Holmes on Mercury

Chelation for Aut...

> I would like to throw this out there for those of you doing mercury detox

> protocols. I have generally followed the recommendations of Dr. Holmes but

> more recently switched to an every 4 hours protocol for my 10 year old

> autistic son. I notice that there is a lot of confusion out there

regarding

> what to do. Dr. Bradstreet and his team insist that every 8 hours is o.k.,

> Dr. Cutler insists on every 4 and Dr. Holmes says do whatever works. We

> started off with long acting DMSA (Holmes) and pulled out a large amount

of

> mercury, cadmium, lead, nickel, and arsenic. We did this for 3 months

until

> not much mercury was coming out. We were doing 7 days on and 7 days off.

> Chelation days were really tough especially towards the end of the 7 days.

> The dose was 150 mg every 8 hours. We then switched to DMSA plus ALA and

> tried several dosing regimens up to 300 mg three times a day of DMSA plus

100

> mg ALA. Again a lot of mercury, cadmium, and lead were coming out in the

> urine but as I read my E-Mails, I became convinced that lower doses every

4

> hours was a better way to go. For the last 4 months until January this

year,

> I gave him 50 mg DMSA and 25 mg ALA every 4 hours Friday, Saturday, Sunday

> and again saw large amounts of heavy metals in the test samples. Although

> the chelation was helping, every time we would chelate, he would become

very

> agitated and this would last into the week so that his tutors and teachers

> were becoming upset at what I was doing. I backed off of the chelation

over

> the past several months so he could begin a new school but as he is again

> approaching vacation, I feel it is important to resume the chelation. This

is

> in particular because he still had moderate of levels of mercury, lead,

> cadmium, nickel, and arsenic being excreted although these had been

reduced

> from when we began.

>

> My question is two fold: Is there any consensus out there as to how best

to

> chelate an 85 pound 10 year old child who has mercury? Given the fact that

he

> would become agitated during the chelation periods, is there a way to

> minimize this. I was told by one doctor that it could be due to overgrowth

of

> yeast or bacteria. Does this make sense and should this be treated? Is it

> reasonable to try a Friday, Saturday, Sunday protocol to avoid effects

during

> school and should this be every week or every two weeks? Lastly, my son

(and

> I suspect many of these children) have difficulty absorbing zinc. The last

> test on my son put his RBC zinc level and the lowest end of normal. What

is

> the best way to keep from becoming zinc depleted in this situation? Is it

> safe to chelate under these circumstances? I hope to begin chelating again

> when he goes on vacation after next week. I appreciate the responses of

those

> who have had experience with this.

>

> By the way, the kinds of improvements I have seen with chelation have

mostly

> been in areas of awareness in the non-verbal area but they are not

minimal.

> For example, last year when we would talk about going out, my son would

not

> respond much. Now if I say we are going out, he immediately finds his

clothes

> including his shoes, puts them on and gets other things he needs. So he is

> more aware of the situation and can respond to it. He also understands

what

> is being said. He can talk but often does not use his speech. I am hoping

> that by continuing chelation he will improve in this area.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Sokolski, M.D.

>

> =======================================================

>

July 20, 2001

> every time we would chelate, he would become very

> agitated and this would last into the week so that his tutors and

teachers

> were becoming upset at what I was doing.

Have you checked his plasma cysteine level? ALA increases it and is

very troublesome to " high sulfur " people if they aren't on a pretty

rigid exclusion diet at the time.

> My question is two fold: Is there any consensus out there

I honestly don't believe there is any consensus on anything.

The one thing I do agree with Dr. Holmes on (which most people don't

agree - they all are certain they have the 'right' protocol) is that

if you try 2 different protocols, stick with the one he did better on

regardless of arguments as to why the other " should " be better.

>Given the fact that he

> would become agitated during the chelation periods, is there a way

to

> minimize this.

1. check plasma cysteine levels and adjust diet and supplements

accordingly.

2. Reduce dosage of chelators.

3. Use calming supplements, e. g. taurine, kava kava, or Rx

medications.

>I was told by one doctor that it could be due to overgrowth of

> yeast or bacteria. Does this make sense and should this be treated?

I don't know. You could give it a try. Sulfur food restriction also

gets rid of yeast problems.

>Is it

> reasonable to try a Friday, Saturday, Sunday protocol to avoid

effects during

> school

Yes.

>and should this be every week or every two weeks?

This depends on individual response.

>Lastly, my son (and

> I suspect many of these children) have difficulty absorbing zinc.

This is common. The things to do are to use a lot of it, add in some

modest amount of manganese, and distribute the dosage throughout the

day.

>The last

> test on my son put his RBC zinc level and the lowest end of normal.

What is

> the best way to keep from becoming zinc depleted in this situation?

Is it

> safe to chelate under these circumstances?

Yes. Chelation does not remove clinically significant amounts of zinc

or other essential elements from the body.

>I hope to begin chelating again

> when he goes on vacation after next week. I appreciate the responses

of those

> who have had experience with this.

>

> By the way, the kinds of improvements I have seen with chelation

have mostly

> been in areas of awareness in the non-verbal area but they are not

minimal.

> For example, last year when we would talk about going out, my son

would not

> respond much. Now if I say we are going out, he immediately finds

his clothes

> including his shoes, puts them on and gets other things he needs. So

he is

> more aware of the situation and can respond to it. He also

understands what

> is being said. He can talk but often does not use his speech. I am

hoping

> that by continuing chelation he will improve in this area.

>

> Thanks.

>

July 20, 2001

Ken,

It's good to see you on the list again! Maybe you've been lurking here all

along?

Here is my two cents on your question. We have been chelating our 21-yr.

old son for almost a year.

I think low and slow is definitely the way to go. We did the DMSA every 4

hours, 7 on and 7 off for the first while, until we were given the go-ahead

to add the ALA. The whole time we were supplementing very religiously

(including zinc at night) and giving him lots of water. After a while we

went to see Dr. Amy and she ran some tests, including one for gut stuff

(since mercury in the gut long-term and the use of ALA predisposes people to

clostridia) and sure enough, he was a little high. So we did a cycle of

Vancomycin, then started giving him Culturelle twice a day.

Once we added ALA, we went to 3 days on, 4 off. Every once in a while we

skip a weekend, so his body can " catch up " and we all get a little more

sleep! This is REALLY beneficial, believe me! Every 3 months we test for

mercury etc. but also other body functions, to make sure things are OK.

This has worked very well for us. He is a little more tired and stimmy

throughout, especially on the third day, but by the time we are ready to go

again, he wants to start. He told me this week that he doesn't feel as bad

between extended cycles as he used to, although he does grind his teeth more

then.

We have been getting out lots and lots of arsenic, high antimony, and almost

every other toxin listed, also smaller amounts of mercury, but amounts Dr.

Amy thinks are good for a young man his age.

So . . . for whatever it's worth,

Barb

Re: [ ]updated stats Dr. Amy Holmes on Mercury

Chelation for Aut...

>I would like to throw this out there for those of you doing mercury detox

>protocols. I have generally followed the recommendations of Dr. Holmes but

>more recently switched to an every 4 hours protocol for my 10 year old

>autistic son. I notice that there is a lot of confusion out there regarding

>what to do. Dr. Bradstreet and his team insist that every 8 hours is o.k.,

>Dr. Cutler insists on every 4 and Dr. Holmes says do whatever works. We

>started off with long acting DMSA (Holmes) and pulled out a large amount of

>mercury, cadmium, lead, nickel, and arsenic. We did this for 3 months until

>not much mercury was coming out. We were doing 7 days on and 7 days off.

>Chelation days were really tough especially towards the end of the 7 days.

>The dose was 150 mg every 8 hours. We then switched to DMSA plus ALA and

>tried several dosing regimens up to 300 mg three times a day of DMSA plus

100

>mg ALA. Again a lot of mercury, cadmium, and lead were coming out in the

>urine but as I read my E-Mails, I became convinced that lower doses every 4

>hours was a better way to go. For the last 4 months until January this

year,

>I gave him 50 mg DMSA and 25 mg ALA every 4 hours Friday, Saturday, Sunday

>and again saw large amounts of heavy metals in the test samples. Although

>the chelation was helping, every time we would chelate, he would become

very

>agitated and this would last into the week so that his tutors and teachers

>were becoming upset at what I was doing. I backed off of the chelation over

>the past several months so he could begin a new school but as he is again

>approaching vacation, I feel it is important to resume the chelation. This

is

>in particular because he still had moderate of levels of mercury, lead,

>cadmium, nickel, and arsenic being excreted although these had been reduced

>from when we began.

>

>My question is two fold: Is there any consensus out there as to how best to

>chelate an 85 pound 10 year old child who has mercury? Given the fact that

he

>would become agitated during the chelation periods, is there a way to

>minimize this. I was told by one doctor that it could be due to overgrowth

of

>yeast or bacteria. Does this make sense and should this be treated? Is it

>reasonable to try a Friday, Saturday, Sunday protocol to avoid effects

during

>school and should this be every week or every two weeks? Lastly, my son

(and

>I suspect many of these children) have difficulty absorbing zinc. The last

>test on my son put his RBC zinc level and the lowest end of normal. What is

>the best way to keep from becoming zinc depleted in this situation? Is it

>safe to chelate under these circumstances? I hope to begin chelating again

>when he goes on vacation after next week. I appreciate the responses of

those

>who have had experience with this.

>

>By the way, the kinds of improvements I have seen with chelation have

mostly

>been in areas of awareness in the non-verbal area but they are not minimal.

>For example, last year when we would talk about going out, my son would not

>respond much. Now if I say we are going out, he immediately finds his

clothes

>including his shoes, puts them on and gets other things he needs. So he is

>more aware of the situation and can respond to it. He also understands what

>is being said. He can talk but often does not use his speech. I am hoping

>that by continuing chelation he will improve in this area.

>

>Thanks.

>

> Sokolski, M.D.

>

>=======================================================

>

August 6, 2001

Ken Sokolski,

It took about six months of chelation before we saw any progress.

will be 12yo on November 8th and weighs 85 pounds.

We started DMSA chelation 9/21/00 and continued through 6/24/01.

We did miss about ten weekends while I was sick last winter.

We used to give 150mg DMSA every four hours from 6pm Friday to 10pm Sunday.

We added ALA slowly starting 10/19/00.

We found that too much ALA causes agitation.

We found 100mg ALA works best with the 150mg DMSA for our son.

We drop the ALA at 2pm Sunday so the last two doses are DMSA only.

He was away at an SLP camp for five weeks in July with no supplements and no

chelation and regressed in both health and behavior. He came home on 8/1/01

with dark circles under the eyes, jerky movements, hand flapping, hands over

ears, etc. We started supplements again this week and those symptoms

improved. The supplement list can be found at

http://www.mei.net/~bob/RICKVIT.htm

We started chelation again this past weekend and expect to start seeing very

slow improvement again this fall.

Our current chelation schedule:

Cleanup accumulation since last cycle:

Thursday 6pm 150mg DMSA

Thursday 10pm 150mg DMSA (if he is awake)

Chelation of tightly bound 2+ metals:

The 10pm dose is intended to drain free Mercury, if any.

We wake him up for the 10pm dose if necessary.

Friday 6pm 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Friday 10pm 300mg DMSA + 0 mg ALA + 3mg Melatonin

Saturday 6am 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Saturday 10am 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Saturday 2pm 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Saturday 6pm 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Saturday 10pm 300mg DMSA + 0 mg ALA + 3mg Melatonin

Sunday 6am 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Sunday 10am 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Sunday 2pm 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Sunday 6pm 150mg DMSA + 100mg ALA

Sunday 10pm 300mg DMSA + 0 mg ALA + 3mg Melatonin

I do not give Zinc during the chelation cycle since it is a 2+ metal and

might bind to the DMSA and prevent the DMSA from binding to toxic metals. I

am not a chemist so I might be wrong in this belief. We do give the Vitamins

A, B, C & E and the EFA supplements listed at

http://www.mei.net/~bob/RICKVIT.htm We do not give any 2+ metals like Zinc

while doing chelation.

Bob Fisher