feeling depressed

[Guest guest]

You know, I did that whole journal thing yesterday, chronicalling every single

AS thing about me, and even though you all know it, it's taken me this long to

truly accept it. But looking at my whole life on paper, it is so crystal clear.

In one way, it makes me feel better about my life, in that I can now understand

a lot of the feelings I've always had -- of not understanding the secret

friendship language, of always feeling like I never fit in, of trying so hard to

be like everyone else and just never getting the same kind of social life that

my NT friends have...

But in another way, I have been plunged into grieving FOR MYSELF. Because now I

know that I will *never* have a network of casual friends. I will *never* have

people I can just call up for coffee or to go see a movie. I will have those

close friends who take the time to get to me, and that's it. There are two I

have made in ten years, and I fear to never make another. Because I *can't*

just call people up to chat. I *can't* make small talk. I *can't* just strike

up conversations.

As long as I thought continually reading self-help books and books about being

less shy, more out-going, etc, would help me to do it some day in the future, I

could just feel frustrated but hopeful. But now...NOW, I have to admit that

this is my life.

I could just fake it. I faked it a lot in high school. But in high school I

was so wracked with fear and confusion that I ended up anorexic and tried to

kill myself. So faking it is not a road I want to go down again.

It's just scary to realize, at 31, that that feeling of truly belonging is never

going to come. You might say, but Jacquie, you belong HERE, but I don't always

feel that way, even. There are alliances and off-list friendships between

people on the list that I don't understand. I'm glad to see it, and it makes me

happy to know people are happy, but I don't understand how that happens.

I'm even passing through the stages of grief. I've been through denial for the

last months (no, this is silly. I'm just making everything about me. next week

I'll think I have fibromyalgia. I'm just shy/too involved with eric/lazy. I'm

just looking for attention. I'll smile at everyone today. If I just try

harder, this won't be true.), and bargaining (just a few more books on

communication. If I just read more books about interpersonal relations, this

won't be true). Now I'm in depression.

I even envy . He's not going to have to go for 30 years wondering what is

so unlikable about him that he can't make friends. He will just know he is

different, and even now he is being TAUGHT how to make his differences work for

him and how to live and survive in spite of them. But he KNOWS them. I wish

I'd known them. But my mom, being of another time, thought that a five-year-old

grabbing another kid by the hair and saying, " I'm Jacquie and you're my friend "

was OUTGOING. (this was always her example later, as I began to be afraid of

groups of people. " But you were always so outgoing, I remember when... " Based

on this kind of thing, she always described me as a 'fearless people person'.

So I believed her, and felt even WORSE -- like I had LOST the ability to relate,

rather than never had it.)

<sigh>

Enough feeling sorry for myself. Thanks for listening -- I had to get this out,

and you all are the only ones who could really understand.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Jacquie,

I want you to know that I think I understand 100% what you are feeling. I

have never in my life fit in. I'm not typical, normal or even friendly if

you ask me. I never feel comfortable around people, even if they know me. I

always thought it was depression, panic attacks and what not. You can ask

what I'm like at her house. I'm quite withdrawn. I'm a wallflower, I

go because truth be told I like a lot but I would not consider myself

good company. I'm actually worried about PA and what everyone will think of

me, they will learn about the true me... Not even sure what that means but

that's what goes through my head...

In highschool I got fat, I ate to hide my feelings. I did date but never

felt much. Truth be told I think I dated because I wanted people to like me

and did tons of things I know where wrong to get those people to like me.

This started with me very young as I wanted someone to love me so much. I

found my dh who know I know is as lost as I am. ughh not a great thing

because instead of supporting and working on each other's problems are's are

both the same.

Anyway enough of my story, what I was trying to say is that what you are

feeling I think is normal. I have gone through something similar many

times, I get very depressed and withdrawn. Maybe with the help of us and

you now knowing what is going on You will get through this and prevent

having relapses of these feelings.

We love you

>

>Reply-To: parenting_autism

>To: <parenting_autism >

>Subject: feeling depressed

>Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:36:01 -0600

>

>You know, I did that whole journal thing yesterday, chronicalling every

>single AS thing about me, and even though you all know it, it's taken me

>this long to truly accept it. But looking at my whole life on paper, it is

>so crystal clear.

>

>In one way, it makes me feel better about my life, in that I can now

>understand a lot of the feelings I've always had -- of not understanding

>the secret friendship language, of always feeling like I never fit in, of

>trying so hard to be like everyone else and just never getting the same

>kind of social life that my NT friends have...

>

>But in another way, I have been plunged into grieving FOR MYSELF. Because

>now I know that I will *never* have a network of casual friends. I will

>*never* have people I can just call up for coffee or to go see a movie. I

>will have those close friends who take the time to get to me, and that's

>it. There are two I have made in ten years, and I fear to never make

>another. Because I *can't* just call people up to chat. I *can't* make

>small talk. I *can't* just strike up conversations.

>

>As long as I thought continually reading self-help books and books about

>being less shy, more out-going, etc, would help me to do it some day in the

>future, I could just feel frustrated but hopeful. But now...NOW, I have to

>admit that this is my life.

>

>I could just fake it. I faked it a lot in high school. But in high school

>I was so wracked with fear and confusion that I ended up anorexic and tried

>to kill myself. So faking it is not a road I want to go down again.

>

>It's just scary to realize, at 31, that that feeling of truly belonging is

>never going to come. You might say, but Jacquie, you belong HERE, but I

>don't always feel that way, even. There are alliances and off-list

>friendships between people on the list that I don't understand. I'm glad

>to see it, and it makes me happy to know people are happy, but I don't

>understand how that happens.

>

>I'm even passing through the stages of grief. I've been through denial for

>the last months (no, this is silly. I'm just making everything about me.

>next week I'll think I have fibromyalgia. I'm just shy/too involved with

>eric/lazy. I'm just looking for attention. I'll smile at everyone today.

>If I just try harder, this won't be true.), and bargaining (just a few more

>books on communication. If I just read more books about interpersonal

>relations, this won't be true). Now I'm in depression.

>

>I even envy . He's not going to have to go for 30 years wondering what

>is so unlikable about him that he can't make friends. He will just know he

>is different, and even now he is being TAUGHT how to make his differences

>work for him and how to live and survive in spite of them. But he KNOWS

>them. I wish I'd known them. But my mom, being of another time, thought

>that a five-year-old grabbing another kid by the hair and saying, " I'm

>Jacquie and you're my friend " was OUTGOING. (this was always her example

>later, as I began to be afraid of groups of people. " But you were always

>so outgoing, I remember when... " Based on this kind of thing, she always

>described me as a 'fearless people person'. So I believed her, and felt

>even WORSE -- like I had LOST the ability to relate, rather than never had

>it.)

>

><sigh>

>

>Enough feeling sorry for myself. Thanks for listening -- I had to get this

>out, and you all are the only ones who could really understand.

>

>Jacquie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue- i'm similar to you. I'm always talking to strangers on lines. One

of my best friends used to say i could talk to anyone about anything- In

Virginia it was nice because people are friendlier there- in NY sometimes

they think i'm crazy I don't bug people (i think)- but i think

sometimes people would rather chat in line then stand there trying not to

make eye contact.

I found that after college it was harder to make friends because people were

so wrapped up in their girl/boyfriends, or spouses and then their children.

I didn't get married or have a child before I was 30, so most of my friends

were either mature teenagers or early 20's and the moms of the kids I

babysat for. (i used to do a lot of babysitting)

i started going to a Unitarian Universalist Church when I moved back to NY 3

years ago-

there are about 40 members- and everyone knows each other and is VERY

supportive. Last Sunday, I went up and lit a candle for my son and told

everyone that i had him tested and for the first time suspected he is

autistic- ( i cried like a baby and i think i freaked everyone out a bit)-

lol. I got so many hugs and well wishes that day- and even had people give

me names of friends or family who have autistic children- and my one

friend's sister has a PhD and works with special ed kids.

Well- my point is- i find if i join a playgroup, or a church, or a

volleyball team- it's a lot easier to meet people. I know that's not the

case with everyone- but sometimes you just never know when you are going to

meet someone- and sometimes these " angels " appear out of nowhere, just when

i need them.

But, there's not going to just knock on your front door (unless they work

for UPS)

-

[Guest guest]

" But, there's not going to just knock on your front door (unless they work

for UPS) "

i meant to write

but they are not....

can you tell i had 4 hours of sleep last night-

zzzzzzzzzz

Happy Holidays everyone!

Spring is here

Baseball is around the corner- go yanks!

[Guest guest]

I was going to write almost exactly what Sue wrote. Sue and I seem to get

very similar scores on things like that EIQ so what she says sounds more

familiar to me that what others have written.

I am not at all autistic, AS or anything, although I rather like kooky

people so I like AS people. I love their individuality and their different

way of seeing things; I love their wonderful memories and interesting and

intriguing minds. AS people are NOT boring to me, not ever. I find Putter

hilarious and fun and Enrique was also hilarious and fun most of his life.

He still is most of the time. Even Lou...

I have lots of friends, even in my currently disconnected state. People

usually like me.

But plenty of times I have noticed, as Jacquie writes that people seemed to

have formed little off-list or outside group or whatever friendships and

that I was not necessarily part of those. Because I tend to be a confident

person where people are involved, it never bothered me because I always

assumed that if I really wanted to join some group, it would be possible.

That has been my experience, and I would usually just ask if I wanted to

join something. But generally not because I have rarely cared that much and

I am a busy enough person without adding any more commitments.

But perhaps the difference here isn't as great as it seems, but is more in

how it is seen from inside us. Everyone is left out of something. Everyone

doesn't connect with someone. Most of us feel like others don't really

understand us, but some of us care more than others. Some of us, like those

of you who feel you are AS or have AS tendencies, have a vague yearning for

something that we feel we are missing and some of us, me, and perhaps Sue or

Grace or some of us real NT'ers, have had enough of that something, whatever

it is, to know that we aren't really missing that much and that a good

friend or two is far more useful in life than a couple of coffee

acquaintances. And, frankly, many of those people that some of you regret

not knowing are pretty darn dull, although perfectly nice people.

Not sure that that made much sense, but I did have an idea that I hoped I

could convey...Oh, well.

Love you, Jacquie and and all the others who have written of their

awkwardness and anxiousness. I almost always like people, people of all

sorts, and I definitely like AS people, so I am pretty sure that I'd like

all my list friends in person as much as I do on this list.

Salli

> In general, I'm a very outgoing person. I'm the kind that will end up

> talking to others in a slow grocery line. I have two good friends that

I'm

> close with, yet we don't even talk all that often. I think everyone just

> gets so wound up in their own busy lives that they don't even think about

> others most of the time. I like going out for coffee with a friend now

and

> then, but if I'm lucky, it might happen maybe 3 times a year! I find a

lot

> of people don't take the time to call others, and seem to wait to be

called.

> I find this frustrating. But, the point is, I don't have a much more

> 'connected to others' life than you do, and I'm not aspergers or afraid of

> small talk or contact or whatever. I think it's just the business in our

> lives now a days that really affects us.

[Guest guest]

Jacquie,

In general, I'm a very outgoing person. I'm the kind that will end up

talking to others in a slow grocery line. I have two good friends that I'm

close with, yet we don't even talk all that often. I think everyone just

gets so wound up in their own busy lives that they don't even think about

others most of the time. I like going out for coffee with a friend now and

then, but if I'm lucky, it might happen maybe 3 times a year! I find a lot

of people don't take the time to call others, and seem to wait to be called.

I find this frustrating. But, the point is, I don't have a much more

'connected to others' life than you do, and I'm not aspergers or afraid of

small talk or contact or whatever. I think it's just the business in our

lives now a days that really affects us.

Big hugs to you!

Sue

[Guest guest]

" If you like me, that's great, but don't expect me to change into something

else so that you will be my friend. If you don't like me, that's your loss;

go annoy someone else. I have more important things to do with my time than

to live up to someone else's expectations. I have expectations of my own.

I expect myself to love and take care of my family as well as I can. I

expect to be there and be honest, loyal, and supportive when my friends (all

one of them) call or write. I expect to be the kind of person that people

who know well love and trust. "

Wow- wendy

very well said.

thanks-

[Guest guest]

Jacquie, I am so sorry you are feeling bad. But don't

be too hard on your life. You have close friends. I

am not AS but I am not socially minded either. I do

not have casual friends that I do things with...I

never have. I never will.

Learning that you are AS does not mean that you cannot

consciously overcome this. You are aware of what the

problem is and that socializing does not come

naturally to you. That just means that you have to

try harder to make it happen. It can still happen. I

would hate for to take that same attitude and say

that since he is AS, he will never have casual

friendships. Ya know?

I hope that others had some good responses to this for

you. I hope you are feeling a bit better?

((((((Jacquie))))))))

Tamara

--- The Hunny Family wrote:

> You know, I did that whole journal thing yesterday,

> chronicalling every single AS thing about me, and

> even though you all know it, it's taken me this long

> to truly accept it. But looking at my whole life on

> paper, it is so crystal clear.

>

> In one way, it makes me feel better about my life,

> in that I can now understand a lot of the feelings

> I've always had -- of not understanding the secret

> friendship language, of always feeling like I never

> fit in, of trying so hard to be like everyone else

> and just never getting the same kind of social life

> that my NT friends have...

>

> But in another way, I have been plunged into

> grieving FOR MYSELF. Because now I know that I will

> *never* have a network of casual friends. I will

> *never* have people I can just call up for coffee or

> to go see a movie. I will have those close friends

> who take the time to get to me, and that's it.

> There are two I have made in ten years, and I fear

> to never make another. Because I *can't* just call

> people up to chat. I *can't* make small talk. I

> *can't* just strike up conversations.

>

> As long as I thought continually reading self-help

> books and books about being less shy, more

> out-going, etc, would help me to do it some day in

> the future, I could just feel frustrated but

> hopeful. But now...NOW, I have to admit that this

> is my life.

>

> I could just fake it. I faked it a lot in high

> school. But in high school I was so wracked with

> fear and confusion that I ended up anorexic and

> tried to kill myself. So faking it is not a road I

> want to go down again.

>

> It's just scary to realize, at 31, that that feeling

> of truly belonging is never going to come. You

> might say, but Jacquie, you belong HERE, but I don't

> always feel that way, even. There are alliances and

> off-list friendships between people on the list that

> I don't understand. I'm glad to see it, and it

> makes me happy to know people are happy, but I don't

> understand how that happens.

>

> I'm even passing through the stages of grief. I've

> been through denial for the last months (no, this is

> silly. I'm just making everything about me. next

> week I'll think I have fibromyalgia. I'm just

> shy/too involved with eric/lazy. I'm just looking

> for attention. I'll smile at everyone today. If I

> just try harder, this won't be true.), and

> bargaining (just a few more books on communication.

> If I just read more books about interpersonal

> relations, this won't be true). Now I'm in

> depression.

>

> I even envy . He's not going to have to go for

> 30 years wondering what is so unlikable about him

> that he can't make friends. He will just know he is

> different, and even now he is being TAUGHT how to

> make his differences work for him and how to live

> and survive in spite of them. But he KNOWS them. I

> wish I'd known them. But my mom, being of another

> time, thought that a five-year-old grabbing another

> kid by the hair and saying, " I'm Jacquie and you're

> my friend " was OUTGOING. (this was always her

> example later, as I began to be afraid of groups of

> people. " But you were always so outgoing, I

> remember when... " Based on this kind of thing, she

> always described me as a 'fearless people person'.

> So I believed her, and felt even WORSE -- like I had

> LOST the ability to relate, rather than never had

> it.)

>

> <sigh>

>

> Enough feeling sorry for myself. Thanks for

> listening -- I had to get this out, and you all are

> the only ones who could really understand.

>

> Jacquie

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

=====

Tamara

mom to :

Ebony, 4 yrs -- asd, ADHD, bi-polar

, 1 year

wife to:

Terry, love of my life

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Learning that you are AS does not mean that you cannot

> consciously overcome this. You are aware of what the

> problem is and that socializing does not come

> naturally to you. That just means that you have to

> try harder to make it happen.

Marc and I talked about this, and the truth is that I'm not really wanting

to put out that kind of effort. Putting out that kind of effort means going

through all the doubts and feelings of, " does x really like me? " that I feel

so uncomfortable with.

So, despite all my whining about it, it seems that I am going to keep going

the way I have been. Only trying not to whine from now on! :-P

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> I am not at all autistic, AS or anything, although I rather like kooky

> people so I like AS people. I love their individuality and their

different

> way of seeing things; I love their wonderful memories and interesting and

> intriguing minds. AS people are NOT boring to me, not ever.

I agree, Salli.

And most of all, AS people are mostly HONEST. I am a real stickler for

people being honest with me. I am much better off with someone who tells

me, to my face, that she hates me, than someone who tells me I am such a

good friend, only to turn around and stab me in the back.

And with AS personalities, that part is handled.

Interesting, they sure are. Boring - - well, I suppose they COULD be boring

if they are going on and on about topics that do not interest me, but even

then, that behavior in itself would be fascinating, I would think. Besides,

I rather think they can handle it when I exclaim that they are boring me to

pieces, and to change the topic LOL.

> But perhaps the difference here isn't as great as it seems, but is more in

> how it is seen from inside us. Everyone is left out of something.

Everyone

> doesn't connect with someone. Most of us feel like others don't really

> understand us, but some of us care more than others. Some of us, like

those

> of you who feel you are AS or have AS tendencies, have a vague yearning

for

> something that we feel we are missing and some of us, me, and perhaps Sue

or

> Grace or some of us real NT'ers, have had enough of that something,

whatever

> it is, to know that we aren't really missing that much and that a good

> friend or two is far more useful in life than a couple of coffee

> acquaintances.

I agree here too.

I am sure I'm left out of this or that as well, but frankly, it doesn't

bother me. I'd be more bothered if people came after me to include me. I

am not AS in most ways, but I am perfectly content on my own, and I like to

join things when *I* want to join them. . . I cannot stand it when people

pressure me into joining in on something that I don't have the motivation or

time for.

Time to time, I will find out something happened and I wasn't in on it. But

I remember those instances right now because we're talking about it - - not

because they bothered me at the time. Shaun says it's because I am so cocky

that I think it's their loss that I wasn't included, but I rather think it's

because I don't care to be included in many things. I like being " on my

own " .... so long as I have a person or two to call when I no longer want to

be on my own.

> Love you, Jacquie and and all the others who have written of their

> awkwardness and anxiousness. I almost always like people, people of all

> sorts, and I definitely like AS people, so I am pretty sure that I'd like

> all my list friends in person as much as I do on this list.

I have the same sentiments.

I find each one of you quite distinct and interesting. In person, I would

not be surprised if I should just be spacing out on you in fascination. I

like virtually everyone unless I get the " feeling " that I am being played or

lied to, and then - - - well, " vindictive b*tch " doesn't even come close to

what I can become.

But until then - - - I have yet to find any of you anything less than

wonderful.

Grace