Re: Was: DMSA dosage-too little--now doc at Kirkman's remarks

[Guest guest]

Hi Rose,

I happened to read your post on the website and want to take the opportunity

to clarify the statement I made in our discussion about using low-dose DMSA.

While the DAN! protocol gives specific guidelines about dosing DMSA based on

a child's weight, it is often preferable to use lower doses of DMSA when

chelating. In fact, there are some physicians who only recommend using

low-dose DMSA, with outstanding results. In most cases, the child will do

just fine when given these lower doses. Clinically, however, there have been

cases where children have not responded as well to low-dose DMSA (i.e. they

have had increased behavioral issues, sleep disturbances, gut problems,

etc.), but have done extremely well on the higher doses recommended in the

DAN! protocol. There are a number of theories as to why certain kids may

respond in this way, but in the end parents and physicians have preferred to

use higher doses of DMSA because they have found this approach to be much

more helpful and beneficial for that particular child. On the other hand,

some children who do not do well with the doses of DMSA recommended for

their weight respond very well to low-dose DMSA. As with all therapies, it

is important for parents and physicians to work together in order to

determine which dose of DMSA is both safe and clinically beneficial for each

individual child.

Best Wishes,

Dr. Hoener

Kirkman Laboratories

Re: DMSA dosage- too little??

> Hi all,

> I have been chelating my 35 pound 33 month old son.

> (6th round) My doctor prescribed 150 mg of DMSA/day

> and said if I wanted to do ALA that was fine.

> According to the DAN! protocaol that dosage is VERY

> LOW! He gets 25 mg of DMSA every 4 hours and 12-15 mg

> of ALA every 3 hours. Is that too little?

No, this is fine.

>My doctor

> thinks that the DAN protocol is WAY too much for a

> little guy.

Your doctor is right. I guess he actually tried the meds on some

toxic kids and paid attention to what happened to them before he

decided how to prescribe.

>I happened to talk to a doctor at Kirkman

> Lab that said the lower dose is worse for the child.

This is a very curious thing for him to say. Are you sure he really

meant that?

> I am confused and I am not sure how to handle this.

> Any parents out there doing low doses? I am a little

> frustrated about this. I do have to say that my son

> is improving and attempts to say every word that he is

> asked to. ( He was nonverbal before) Many of his

> words are very clear and he is beginning to say them

> on his own. SO, what to do?? Thanks! mom to

> Nico 33 months

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " Dr. Hoener " <stephanie@k...>

wrote:

> Hi Rose,

>

> I happened to read your post on the website and want to take the

opportunity

> to clarify the statement I made in our discussion about using

low-dose DMSA.

> While the DAN! protocol gives specific guidelines about dosing DMSA

based on

> a child's weight, it is often preferable to use lower doses of DMSA

when

> chelating. In fact, there are some physicians who only recommend

using

> low-dose DMSA, with outstanding results. In most cases, the child

will do

> just fine when given these lower doses. Clinically, however, there

have been

> cases where children have not responded as well to low-dose DMSA

(i.e. they

> have had increased behavioral issues, sleep disturbances, gut

problems,

> etc.), but have done extremely well on the higher doses recommended

in the

> DAN! protocol. There are a number of theories as to why certain kids

may

> respond in this way, but in the end parents and physicians have

preferred to

> use higher doses of DMSA because they have found this approach to be

much

> more helpful and beneficial for that particular child. On the other

hand,

> some children who do not do well with the doses of DMSA recommended

for

> their weight respond very well to low-dose DMSA. As with all

therapies, it

> is important for parents and physicians to work together in order to

> determine which dose of DMSA is both safe and clinically beneficial

for each

> individual child.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Dr. Hoener

> Kirkman Laboratories

Dr. Hoener,

Do you consider administration frequency to be relevant to how the

children respond?

Andy

>

> Re: DMSA dosage- too little??

>

> --- In @y..., vanessa rivera <vannamom2001@y...>

wrote:

> > Hi all,

> > I have been chelating my 35 pound 33 month old son.

> > (6th round) My doctor prescribed 150 mg of DMSA/day

> > and said if I wanted to do ALA that was fine.

> > According to the DAN! protocaol that dosage is VERY

> > LOW! He gets 25 mg of DMSA every 4 hours and 12-15 mg

> > of ALA every 3 hours. Is that too little?

>

> No, this is fine.

>

> >My doctor

> > thinks that the DAN protocol is WAY too much for a

> > little guy.

>

> Your doctor is right. I guess he actually tried the meds on some

> toxic kids and paid attention to what happened to them before he

> decided how to prescribe.

>

> >I happened to talk to a doctor at Kirkman

> > Lab that said the lower dose is worse for the child.

>

> This is a very curious thing for him to say. Are you sure he really

> meant that?

>

> > I am confused and I am not sure how to handle this.

> > Any parents out there doing low doses? I am a little

> > frustrated about this. I do have to say that my son

> > is improving and attempts to say every word that he is

> > asked to. ( He was nonverbal before) Many of his

> > words are very clear and he is beginning to say them

> > on his own. SO, what to do?? Thanks! mom to

> > Nico 33 months

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Andy,

The question of the dosing schedule for DMSA is a complex one and I would

like to talk with you about this more sometime. If you could e-mail me

privately with your phone number I would appreciate it; otherwise you can

reach me here at Kirkman at (800) 245-8282.

Thanks, and Best Wishes,

Dr. Hoener

Kirkman Laboratories

Re: DMSA dosage- too little??

>

> --- In @y..., vanessa rivera <vannamom2001@y...>

wrote:

> > Hi all,

> > I have been chelating my 35 pound 33 month old son.

> > (6th round) My doctor prescribed 150 mg of DMSA/day

> > and said if I wanted to do ALA that was fine.

> > According to the DAN! protocaol that dosage is VERY

> > LOW! He gets 25 mg of DMSA every 4 hours and 12-15 mg

> > of ALA every 3 hours. Is that too little?

>

> No, this is fine.

>

> >My doctor

> > thinks that the DAN protocol is WAY too much for a

> > little guy.

>

> Your doctor is right. I guess he actually tried the meds on some

> toxic kids and paid attention to what happened to them before he

> decided how to prescribe.

>

> >I happened to talk to a doctor at Kirkman

> > Lab that said the lower dose is worse for the child.

>

> This is a very curious thing for him to say. Are you sure he really

> meant that?

>

> > I am confused and I am not sure how to handle this.

> > Any parents out there doing low doses? I am a little

> > frustrated about this. I do have to say that my son

> > is improving and attempts to say every word that he is

> > asked to. ( He was nonverbal before) Many of his

> > words are very clear and he is beginning to say them

> > on his own. SO, what to do?? Thanks! mom to

> > Nico 33 months

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

> > > Hi all,

> > > I have been chelating my 35 pound 33 month old son.

> > > (6th round) My doctor prescribed 150 mg of DMSA/day

> > > and said if I wanted to do ALA that was fine.

> > > According to the DAN! protocaol that dosage is VERY

> > > LOW! He gets 25 mg of DMSA every 4 hours and 12-15 mg

> > > of ALA every 3 hours. Is that too little?

> >

> > No, this is fine.

> >

> > >My doctor

> > > thinks that the DAN protocol is WAY too much for a

> > > little guy.

> >

> > Your doctor is right. I guess he actually tried the meds on some

> > toxic kids and paid attention to what happened to them before he

> > decided how to prescribe.

> >

> > >I happened to talk to a doctor at Kirkman

> > > Lab that said the lower dose is worse for the child.

> >

> > This is a very curious thing for him to say. Are you sure he

really

> > meant that?

> >

> > > I am confused and I am not sure how to handle this.

> > > Any parents out there doing low doses? I am a little

> > > frustrated about this. I do have to say that my son

> > > is improving and attempts to say every word that he is

> > > asked to. ( He was nonverbal before) Many of his

> > > words are very clear and he is beginning to say them

> > > on his own. SO, what to do?? Thanks! mom to

> > > Nico 33 months

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Our DAN! doctor said that the lower dosage and every four hours was worse

too. She said that it was too hard on the liver and kidneys. We are still

doing the 4 hour low dosing with no problems. It just didn't make sense to

us!

[Guest guest]

I have been watching with interest this whole dosing thing obviously kids

can be so different I did 4 hour dosing for several months many times having

to stop because my boy would be vomiting it up by the second night (8yrs

57lbs- 20mg DMSA then added ALA 12.5 after 3 months) very low dose so

recently 2 rounds ago I decided to try 8 hour dosing and he was much more

tolerant (dose being 37 DMSA and 25 ALA) I am taking the DMSA up slowly

because this seemed to be the culprit and he was fine this weekend I will

try 50mg and 25mg. So I am really hoping that we will continue to get

slow but across the board progress as we have done. Because it definately

still works even at these low doses.

I can say from our end it is trial and error.

I just thought I would report this for those of you that have children with

very refluxy intolerant stomachs.

Regards

Terri

Re: [ ] Was: DMSA dosage-too little--now doc at

Kirkman's remarks

>Our DAN! doctor said that the lower dosage and every four hours was worse

>too. She said that it was too hard on the liver and kidneys. We are still

>doing the 4 hour low dosing with no problems. It just didn't make sense to

>us!

>

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> Our DAN! doctor said that the lower dosage and every four hours was

worse

> too. She said that it was too hard on the liver and kidneys. We

are still

> doing the 4 hour low dosing with no problems. It just didn't make

sense to

> us!

Would you be so kind as to identify the doc so people can make an

informed decision about who they want to see?

Andy

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " s " <rat.richards@x>

wrote:

> I have been watching with interest this whole dosing thing obviously

kids

> can be so different I did 4 hour dosing for several months many

times having

> to stop because my boy would be vomiting it up by the second night

(8yrs

> 57lbs- 20mg DMSA then added ALA 12.5 after 3 months) very low dose

so

> recently 2 rounds ago I decided to try 8 hour dosing and he was much

more

> tolerant (dose being 37 DMSA and 25 ALA) I am taking the DMSA up

slowly

> because this seemed to be the culprit and he was fine this weekend I

will

> try 50mg and 25mg. So I am really hoping that we will continue to

get

> slow but across the board progress as we have done. Because it

definately

> still works even at these low doses.

>

> I can say from our end it is trial and error.

Yes, it is. And if you find something that breaks all the rules but

definitely, clearly works for your kid, stick with it. Everyone is un

ique in a biochemical sense. But most people really DO follow the

rules.

BTW, did you try feeding him the chelators with antacid? If it is

reflux, this might help.

>

> I just thought I would report this for those of you that have

children with

> very refluxy intolerant stomachs.

>

> Regards

> Terri

> Re: [ ] Was: DMSA dosage-too little--now doc

at

> Kirkman's remarks

>

>

> >Our DAN! doctor said that the lower dosage and every four hours was

worse

> >too. She said that it was too hard on the liver and kidneys. We

are still

> >doing the 4 hour low dosing with no problems. It just didn't make

sense to

> >us!

> >

> >

> >

> >=======================================================

> >

[Guest guest]

Not to beat a dead horse, but lowering the dose might help too.

I have had to do that with my own chelation for the same reason and

have a number of my friends having to do the same. It worked.

After a few rounds at that lower dose I was able to increase it back

up to where it had been prior to the upset and I was fine from that

point forward. No more nausea nor diarrhea.

I am only taking 25 mg more than my 7 year old does of the DMSA and

ALA as well.

Perhaps it is not when your son takes the medicine from you but how

much of it he can handle at this point.

Jeannie

>

> > I have been watching with interest this whole dosing thing

obviously

> kids

> > can be so different I did 4 hour dosing for several months many

> times having

> > to stop because my boy would be vomiting it up by the second

night

> (8yrs

> > 57lbs- 20mg DMSA then added ALA 12.5 after 3 months) very low

dose

> so

> > recently 2 rounds ago I decided to try 8 hour dosing and he was

much

> more

> > tolerant (dose being 37 DMSA and 25 ALA) I am taking the DMSA up

> slowly

> > because this seemed to be the culprit and he was fine this

weekend I

> will

> > try 50mg and 25mg. So I am really hoping that we will continue

to

> get

> > slow but across the board progress as we have done. Because it

> definately

> > still works even at these low doses.

> >

> > I can say from our end it is trial and error.

>

> Yes, it is. And if you find something that breaks all the rules

but

> definitely, clearly works for your kid, stick with it. Everyone is

un

> ique in a biochemical sense. But most people really DO follow the

> rules.

>

> BTW, did you try feeding him the chelators with antacid? If it is

> reflux, this might help.

>

> >

> > I just thought I would report this for those of you that have

> children with

> > very refluxy intolerant stomachs.

> >

> > Regards

> > Terri

> > Re: [ ] Was: DMSA dosage-too little--now

doc

> at

> > Kirkman's remarks

> >

> >

> > >Our DAN! doctor said that the lower dosage and every four hours

was

> worse

> > >too. She said that it was too hard on the liver and kidneys.

We

> are still

> > >doing the 4 hour low dosing with no problems. It just didn't

make

> sense to

> > >us!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >=======================================================

> > >

[Guest guest]

> > > I have been watching with interest this whole dosing thing

> obviously

> > kids

> > > can be so different I did 4 hour dosing for several months many

> > times having

> > > to stop because my boy would be vomiting it up by the second

> night

> > (8yrs

> > > 57lbs- 20mg DMSA then added ALA 12.5 after 3 months) very low

> dose

> > so

> > > recently 2 rounds ago I decided to try 8 hour dosing and he was

> much

> > more

> > > tolerant (dose being 37 DMSA and 25 ALA) I am taking the DMSA up

> > slowly

> > > because this seemed to be the culprit and he was fine this

> weekend I

> > will

> > > try 50mg and 25mg. So I am really hoping that we will

continue

> to

> > get

> > > slow but across the board progress as we have done. Because it

> > definately

> > > still works even at these low doses.

> > >

> > > I can say from our end it is trial and error.

> >

> > Yes, it is. And if you find something that breaks all the rules

> but

> > definitely, clearly works for your kid, stick with it. Everyone

is

> un

> > ique in a biochemical sense. But most people really DO follow the

> > rules.

> >

> > BTW, did you try feeding him the chelators with antacid? If it is

> > reflux, this might help.

> >

> > >

> > > I just thought I would report this for those of you that have

> > children with

> > > very refluxy intolerant stomachs.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Terri

> > > Re: [ ] Was: DMSA dosage-too little--now

> doc

> > at

> > > Kirkman's remarks

> > >

> > >

> > > >Our DAN! doctor said that the lower dosage and every four hours

> was

> > worse

> > > >too. She said that it was too hard on the liver and kidneys.

> We

> > are still

> > > >doing the 4 hour low dosing with no problems. It just didn't

> make

> > sense to

> > > >us!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >=======================================================

> > > >