Re: Chelation for the willing-to-learn

July 4, 2001

Welcome to the list. First off, willing to learn and open to the info does not

equal dummy in my book. Save that for the close-minded ones who won't even

consider the connection. Please note that quite a few on this list feel that

the every 4 hr. dosing (day and night) offers more benefits and fewer adverse

reactions than does the (DAN! protocol's 8 hr. dosing.

Also, please understand that if an individual has " silver " amalgam dental

fillings (contain 50% mercury) he or she needs to have those replaced with

mercury-free fillings by a dentist who will do it properly. This needs to occur

BEFORE chelation!! Use of chelation with mercury fillings in place can pull

mercury and other toxins from the fillings and redistribute it in the body and

cause the person to become even more toxic.

S

On Mon, 02 July 2001, Moria Merriweather wrote:

>

> <html><body>

> <tt>

> greetings trainland@..., welcome to the list;

>

> If you have the hair analysis from 4 years ago, you can

> still try out the counting rules on it, maybe. See

> <a

href= " /files/Counting%2BRules " >http:\

///group/ /files/Counting%2BRules</a>

> If that doesn't work out, you may want to get a new hair test.

>

> You can get DMSA without a perscription from www.vrpcentral.net.

> The company is Vitamin Research Products. & nbsp; They have an 800 # too.

> (I don't have it handy.)

>

> You could also use alpha lipoic acid instead of DMSA if you want.

> It's something else to look into if you want. It is sold in

> health food stores as a supplement. Very available.

>

> As for what to do about local docs being uninterested, some of your

> options include:

> 1. use the local docs to run tests etc but don't expect them to

> know about chelation

> 2. go to an out-of-town doc. For example, lots of parents on this

> list have travelled to see Dr Amy Holmes in Louisiana. Or her partner

> Cave. & nbsp; This is a viable option--- although her waiting

> list is VERY long.

> 3. you could just do it on your own. & nbsp; You'll get tons of help and

> advice from this list.

>

> There may be other options as well, and I am sure that considering

> the options I just listed will raise some more questions and

> considerations.

>

> best regards,

> :] Moria

>

> [i'm doing chelation on mySELF: I don't have any kids. & nbsp; I'm using

> ALA only, 100 mg. every 3-4 hours; 3days & quot;on & quot; and 4 days

& quot;off & quot;,

> or 3 days & quot;on & quot; with 11 days off, with some breaks

> and variations; I'm on round 9; I am not seeing a doctor at all,

> although I do have regular accupunture appointments]

>

> At 11:01 PM 7/2/2001 -0000, you wrote:

> & gt;Just joined this list yesterday after reading interesting information

> & gt;from a parent on another list. I am interested in pursuing a trial of

> & gt;chelation but have not done any of the tests (other than a hair

> & gt;analysis four years ago) He has had a terrible year with escalating

> & gt;behaviors, contstipation/holding syndrome, increased stimming,

> & gt;etc...actually he has been getting tougher to manage for almost two

> & gt;years....Is the product & quot;captomer & quot; used by many? What do you do

when

> & gt;there is no one in the local medical community that is willing to

> & gt;investigate or order DMSA chelation? I have read the ARI position

> & gt;paper and the paper by Binstock on mercury and autism. But

> & gt;would still like further info on where and how to obtain DMSA for a

> & gt;trial run. I DO NOT have a physician that is willing to monitor it or

> & gt;order it, I do have access to the CBC/LFT tests and that type of

> & gt;follow up.

> & gt;thanks so much!

> & gt;

> & gt;=======================================================

> & gt;

July 4, 2001

> Welcome to the list. First off, willing to learn and open to the

info does not equal dummy in my book. Save that for the close-minded

ones who won't even consider the connection. Please note that quite a

few on this list feel that the every 4 hr. dosing (day and night)

offers more benefits and fewer adverse reactions than does the (DAN!

protocol's 8 hr. dosing.

>

> Also, please understand that if an individual has " silver " amalgam

dental fillings (contain 50% mercury) he or she needs to have those

replaced with mercury-free fillings by a dentist who will do it

properly. This needs to occur BEFORE chelation!! Use of chelation

with mercury fillings in place can pull mercury and other toxins from

the fillings and redistribute it in the body and cause the person to

become even more toxic.

> S

Thanks! Zach does not have any " silver " fillings, in fact he only had

one cavity, hard to believe with all of the junk food he eats and the

amount of plaque buildup he had.

I hate to think of waking him up during the night for the every four

hour doseing, it is difficult enough to get him to sleep and not be us

messing around all night! These last two weekends I gave it to him

8-12-4-8 fri thru sunday. As of now I was only able to obtain

" captomer " which has 65mg of dmsa in it (probably a little light on

the dosage as he

July 4, 2001

Kay,

Captomer should work fine. The 8-12-4-8 Friday thru Sunday schedule should

work as well. The idea behind doses every four hours is to have DMSA in

circulation around the clock. DMSA has a half life of about four hours in

circulation. When DMSA is stopped, some Mercury is redeposited.

How much does Zach weigh?

See the chart at http://www.msgexp.net/~bob/Chelation.htm

It was a hand out at a DAN! meeting.

You might be able to move to a higher dose after 2 or 3 weekends at 65mg.

If Zach has trouble falling asleep:

1. Have you tried giving him

400 to 1600mcg of Folic Acid (FA) in the AM?

FA reduces homocysteine (HC).

Excess HC suppresses neurotransmitters including

serotonin (Might be why some kids are helped by Prozac),

dopamine (Might be why mood altering help some kids),

gasprin (Might explain low B12 due to lack of stomach acid),

secretin (Might be why secreting helped)

and melatonin (The sleep and detoxification agent).

2. Melatonin itself might help but I would try FA too.

If HC is high, FA can help a lot at very low risk and cost.

Bob Fisher

>I hate to think of waking him up during the night for the every four

hour doseing, it is difficult enough to get him to sleep and not be us

messing around all night! These last two weekends I gave it to him

8-12-4-8 fri thru sunday. As of now I was only able to obtain

" captomer " which has 65mg of dmsa in it (probably a little light on

the dosage as he

July 4, 2001

ok...i'm ready to get slammed dunked.....my son takes 200mg of dmsa once a

day on fri sat and sun for 5 weeks then two weeks off. (mon thru thurs he is

on a merc. detox supp., ala, etc)

and he is doing FANTASTIC!!

we've been at it for a total of 20 weeks.

July 4, 2001

> I hate to think of waking him up during the night for the every four

> hour doseing, it is difficult enough to get him to sleep and not be

us

> messing around all night! These last two weekends I gave it to him

> 8-12-4-8 fri thru sunday. As of now I was only able to obtain

> " captomer " which has 65mg of dmsa in it (probably a little light on

> the dosage as he

Captomer has 100 mg DMSA in it. The label is confusing due to

regulatory requirements about what they can say.

It is very important to use the every 4 hour protocol. See the polls

section of this listserver's website for how 4 versus 8 hours

compares. And people who just skip the nightitme dose get REALLY sick

from doing it that way.

I realize it is a pain to get up at night, but it is the price of

getting your kid well.

Andy

July 4, 2001

> Kay,

>

> Captomer should work fine.

Yup.

>The 8-12-4-8 Friday thru Sunday schedule should

> work as well.

Nope. It has to be carried through the night if dosing is to continue

the next day.

>The idea behind doses every four hours is to have DMSA in

> circulation around the clock.

Which is not accomplished by skipping the midnight and 4 AM doses.

>DMSA has a half life of about four hours in

> circulation. When DMSA is stopped, some Mercury is redeposited.

>

> How much does Zach weigh?

> See the chart at http://www.msgexp.net/~bob/Chelation.htm

> It was a hand out at a DAN! meeting.

This chart and things like it are why I really don't reccomend people

see DAN! doctors at this point. Let them hurt someone else's kids if

that is what they need to do to learn not to do things the way they

are laid out on that chart. There is no need for your child to be the

one who experiences severe and potentially permanent worsening in

order to draw the DAN! doctor's attention to the fact that he has to

take some personal responsibility to understand WHY he is prescribing

things, and HOW he should do it, rather than just following any old

recipe someone puts in front of him.

> You might be able to move to a higher dose after 2 or 3 weekends at

65mg.

>

> If Zach has trouble falling asleep:

> 1. Have you tried giving him

> 400 to 1600mcg of Folic Acid (FA) in the AM?

> FA reduces homocysteine (HC).

> Excess HC suppresses neurotransmitters including

> serotonin (Might be why some kids are helped by Prozac),

> dopamine (Might be why mood altering help some kids),

> gasprin (Might explain low B12 due to lack of stomach acid),

> secretin (Might be why secreting helped)

> and melatonin (The sleep and detoxification agent).

> 2. Melatonin itself might help but I would try FA too.

> If HC is high, FA can help a lot at very low risk and cost.

>

> Bob Fisher

>

> >I hate to think of waking him up during the night for the every

four

> hour doseing, it is difficult enough to get him to sleep and not be

us

> messing around all night! These last two weekends I gave it to him

> 8-12-4-8 fri thru sunday. As of now I was only able to obtain

> " captomer " which has 65mg of dmsa in it (probably a little light on

> the

July 4, 2001

>

> >The 8-12-4-8 Friday thru Sunday schedule should

> > work as well.

>

> Nope. It has to be carried through the night if dosing is to continue

> the next day.

>

I assumed she meant, 8-12-4-8-12-4, since she referred to every four hours.

We have done this, with some every-three-hours-during-the-day. Cell phones

with programmable alarm clocks come in real handy here. Alarm goes off, you

reset to the next dose time. (Could use a good alarm watch, but with the

cell phones and free cell phone-to-cell-phone calling, you can synchronize

the doses with a phone call.)

If one parent is chelating one kid while the other parent is elsewhere with

other kids, and only one parent has access to the drugs (someone forgot to

bring enough along), we stretch it to four hours during the day for one kid

and shorten it to three for the others until the schedules match again.

Have to match again by nightime, so you don't get up at different times for

different kids.

Happy Fourth to you all, signing off for now!

Lorilyn

July 4, 2001

> Captomer has 100 mg DMSA in it. The label is confusing due to

> regulatory requirements about what they can say.

The label states it has 65mg

>

> It is very important to use the every 4 hour protocol. See the

polls

> section of this listserver's website for how 4 versus 8 hours

> compares. And people who just skip the nightitme dose get REALLY

sick

> from doing it that way.

I did look at the polls section/results/progress but God he has been

on many heavy duty medications the past several years trying to get

him to sleep through the night/keep him on a schedule etc...I even

have a one way keyed/deadbolt on his room (which apparently is illegal

and reportable to CPS) to keep him safe in his room and not allow him

to escape out of the house. Sleep has been a major problem regardless

of the medications and interventions we have tried or that have been

prescribed for him. Sleep is such an issue with these kids and can

lead to more problems/stress if they do not get enough. I can see

increasing his dose for first thing in the morning and last thing at

night but I cannot see the benefit for his sake or ours in waking him

up at night....We have paid many " prices " over the past several years

and there is not very much that we will not do for our son.....

thanks

Kay

>

> I realize it is a pain to get up at night, but it is the price of

> getting your kid wel

July 5, 2001

>I did look at the polls section/results/progress but God he has been

>on many heavy duty medications the past several years trying to get

>him to sleep through the night/keep him on a schedule etc...I even

>have a one way keyed/deadbolt on his room (which apparently is illegal

>and reportable to CPS) to keep him safe in his room and not allow him

>to escape out of the house. Sleep has been a major problem regardless

>of the medications and interventions we have tried or that have been

>prescribed for him. Sleep is such an issue with these kids and can

>lead to more problems/stress if they do not get enough. I can see

>increasing his dose for first thing in the morning and last thing at

>night but I cannot see the benefit for his sake or ours in waking him

>up at night....We have paid many " prices " over the past several years

>and there is not very much that we will not do for our son.....

>thanks

>Kay

Hi Kay,

Changing the dose at night or in the morning is *not* the same thing.

Andy's issue is about keeping a steady level in the bloodstream.

You cannot do that except by giving the DMSA every 4 hours around

the clock.

You can decide whatever you want, I just wanted to clarify what the

issue is. Then you'll know what your choices are. I think it is

safe to say that NO ONE likes this nightime-dose thing AT ALL.

Your case does sound especially difficult.

Good luck, which ever way you try.

Moria

July 5, 2001

Kay,

When Jon was at his worst he would not sleep for more than an hour.we used

to take shifts......his stomach would rumble something terrible and if we

happened to fall asleep we'd jump and sometimes find him on top of the

entertainment center or standing in the toilet fully dressed. We tried the

clonidine but it just turned him white and he passed out.

If I had to sum up what helped him the most it would be the GFCF, yeast

free, sugar free diet, load him up throughout the day and especially before

bed with Ulta Flora Plus (dairy free). Epsom's salts baths before bed and

melatonin.

chelation is getting him healthier, more typical each day but we still keep

the high locks on the doors to the outside. I know the feeling of something

else should help and it usually does depending on the child....hope

something works for you until you get the toxins out....keep trying and good

luck with it

From: <trainland@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 6:18 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Chelation for the willing-to-learn