Guest guest Posted March 12, 2001 Report Share Posted March 12, 2001 I would let the thumpers go when they break. The trend in EMS is to terminate resuscitation at the scene if paramedics are unsuccessful. Transporting patients in an ambulance with " CPR underway " should be a thing of the past. Most Australian paramedics have never performed CPR in the back of an ambulance and find the whole concept silly. When you thing about it, in terms of medical cardiac arrest, there is very little that I can do in an ED that paramedics cannot do in a field. How many times have you seen paramedics fail to resuscitate a medical arrest patient in the field and bring them to the hospital and the ED staff magically resuscitates them. I'll bet hardly ever! Taking a dead person to the ED increases costs significantly. In addition to the ambulance charges, the ED charges can be staggering. If I have a crash cart opened for a resuscitation, a $1,5000.00 resuscitation charge is billed. Let the dead be! Bledsoe, DO, EMT-P, FACEP Thumper CPR machines > We have thumpers on the units, but as we become more urban, we are > questioning the maintenance and replacement costs. I would appreciate > feedback from people who do and also don't use them telling me why. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2001 Report Share Posted March 12, 2001 ...a couple of questions, ALS or BLS, and are you using the units for on scene CPR, transport, or both? The issues are multiple but I would suggest examining: 1. If used on scene, do you have the personnel to perform a resus. without the use of the Thumper? You will probably require at least one additional body for compressions and potentially one for ventilations (depending on how you are using the Thumper). 2. If used in transport and you are able to deliver ALS, a broader question might be the effectiveness/efficacy of transporting a non-ROSC routinely. Just some initial discussion/thought points. Chris _____ Christian E. Callsen, Jr., LP Senior District Commander, Strategic Planning Terrorism Duty Officer Austin/ County EMS Office Pager Fax chris.callsen@... Thumper CPR machines We have thumpers on the units, but as we become more urban, we are questioning the maintenance and replacement costs. I would appreciate feedback from people who do and also don't use them telling me why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2001 Report Share Posted March 13, 2001 I would have to agree with what said and also add that using a Thumper is not only a patient care issue (relates to the ability to perform ADEQUATE CPR during transport) but it is a safety issue for your crews. As far as the cost. I would say that the life span of a new unit should be 15 years or so. With routine evaluation every 5 years at a cost of $500-1000 I think they are very cost effective. The biggest drawback to them is their acceptance in the ED. I think this is simply a matter of education. In the Dallas area all FD's utilize Thumpers and UTSW has a skills evaluation on their use in initial training classes. I think with experience you will see the tremendous benefits of their use. Lee Thumper CPR machines We have thumpers on the units, but as we become more urban, we are questioning the maintenance and replacement costs. I would appreciate feedback from people who do and also don't use them telling me why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2001 Report Share Posted March 13, 2001 Thanks for your reply. We routinely staff our trucks with 2 paramedics and in most cases have fire department first responders available to ride in. In fact, they seem eager to do so. A question that has been raised is the libility of having first responders on trucks nonseat-belted running hot to the hospital. It seems a matter of opinion with our paramedics if the quality of CPR is better due to the patient moving around on the board during transport. They also complain about the Thumper gettting in the way while they are trying to do things. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2001 Report Share Posted March 13, 2001 Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your comments. Although we have received the new ACLS materials and were thinking along those lines, the mean age of our paramedics is 34 with 12 years of service, so new concepts are investigated well before they are accepted. Thank you so much for your input. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2001 Report Share Posted March 13, 2001 Way to go, Lee. I was wondering if anybody still had good things to say about Thumper. Good employee- never calls in sick, doesn't complain and has a career span much greater than that of the average medic. Jay Garner Thumper CPR machines > > > We have thumpers on the units, but as we become more urban, we are > questioning the maintenance and replacement costs. I would > appreciate > feedback from people who do and also don't use them telling me why. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2001 Report Share Posted March 13, 2001 , in light of the information that you have provided, I would very, very seriously consider the policy of transporting non-ROSC patients to the hospital at all, except in specific circumstances. The data is pretty clear...dead in the field is dead in the ER. The risk to your personnel and the public from transporting Code 3 with a cardiac arrest is a very real, and places your organization in a potentially tenuous legal position. I could not agree with Dr. Bledsoe more, leave the dead bodies on the scene and concentrate on helping the families through the grieving process. Chris _____ Christian E. Callsen, Jr., LP Senior District Commander, Strategic Planning Terrorism Duty Officer Austin/ County EMS Office Pager Fax chris.callsen@... RE: Thumper CPR machines Thanks for your reply. We routinely staff our trucks with 2 paramedics and in most cases have fire department first responders available to ride in. In fact, they seem eager to do so. A question that has been raised is the libility of having first responders on trucks nonseat-belted running hot to the hospital. It seems a matter of opinion with our paramedics if the quality of CPR is better due to the patient moving around on the board during transport. They also complain about the Thumper gettting in the way while they are trying to do things. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com <http://explorer.msn.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 We used thumpers for a number of years. We made the decision when AHA came out with the rate changes and we would have had to modify the ones we had. They served a very real purpose for us when we only had two medics on the unit with no additional manpower or back up. We have been Thumper free for over ten years now. Henry Barber maryfuglaar@... wrote: > We have thumpers on the units, but as we become more urban, we are > questioning the maintenance and replacement costs. I would appreciate > feedback from people who do and also don't use them telling me why. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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