Re: IEP question(s)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/10/99 1:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, OMac353@...

writes:

<< F you don't sign the new IEP it becomes effective within 7 days unless you

ask for a stay put on the old IEP, and it must be in writing, within 7 days

of the IEP meeting. You HAVE to write your objections to the IEP within 7

days!! >>

This might vary state to state but in the state I live but not signing the

IEP you end up with no IEP. you have to sign it but you don't have to accept

it. be careful and check out your state laws. Lori

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/14/99 6:39:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, LCorc16@...

writes:

<< days!! >>

This might vary state to state but in the state I live but not signing the

IEP you end up with no IEP. you have to sign it but you don't have to accept

it. be careful and check out your state laws. Lori >>

Well I just found out that I guess here......its not..... " upon parents

receipt of the IEP it goes into effect within 15 days " .........so since we

took a copy home to look at......we were " in receipt " of it?!

The man I spoke to yesterday.....our " compliance officier " had me about in

tears.......not a very sympathetic man......why/ how these people get into

these type of positions is beyond me.

BTW.....looks like we are not getting an aide

Thanks guys.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/14/99 6:48:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Freshstrt2000@... writes:

<< The man I spoke to yesterday.....our " compliance officier " had me about

in

tears.......not a very sympathetic man......why/ how these people get into

these type of positions is beyond me. >>

do you have an advocate? It should be someone who specializes in deaf and

hard of hearing issues. I have found my meetings are very heated and with an

advocate she addresses most of the concerns and I end up not taking so much

of the stress in the meetings. We received one from the state agency which

deals with hard of hearing and deaf children FREE! I still have to do all the

leg work but they treat us with more respect -- sometimes really only when

the advocate is present. You should look into one. Lori

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/14/99 7:05:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, LCorc16@...

writes:

<< I still have to do all the

leg work but they treat us with more respect -- sometimes really only when

the advocate is present. You should look into one. >>

I am definitely going to........thank you!

He treated me like just a housewife with nothing else to worry

about........that sort of thing.......UGH>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/14/99 7:30:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,

celestej@... writes:

<< Secondly, federal law does not allow a child to go without an IEP. >>

Hi Celeste! It took us 8 months to get an IEP and I didn't sign the first

three because they wanted to make changes and wanted to work with us. I

listened to them. By the time we got our 4th rewritten IEP I signed and

rejected portions; I filed three complaints against the system and we ended

up winning in our favor but the major complaint the state had with us since

we didn't sign any IEP before this rejected portion one. It showed we didn't

want to work with them, the state never saw any of these IEP'S and since

there was no signed IEP the town didn't need to provide service and we were

lucky to get the service. They did find the system in fault for my complaints

because I had finally signed an IEP. So are you saying they were wrong in

doing this? Just a reminder this was our daughter's first IEP. She had

nothing to fall back on. Guess what we signed in October for last March and

it goes up in a few weeks. They now don't want to keep my daughter in town

and they want to send her out. She is the only hard of hearing child in the

town. Well, I have a new fight on our hands. My daughter will remain with her

siblings in our town. Our academic programs far exceeds the self contained

classroom for hard of hearing children in another town. there is no need to

remove her from a mainstreamed classroom and place her in a self contained

but she takes up too much of their time with speech. Oh well. please let me

know Celeste if this was wrong. thanks Lori

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/14/1999 6:48:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Freshstrt2000@... writes:

<< not a very sympathetic man......why/ how these people get into

these type of positions is beyond me. >>

I think it is part of the job description........I guess they think if they

intimidate you enough and are as rude as humanly possible...... you will back

down and leave them alone......

WRONG!

Elaine B.

[Guest guest]

>This might vary state to state but in the state I live but not signing the

>IEP you end up with no IEP. you have to sign it but you don't have to accept

>it. be careful and check out your state laws. Lori

Lori,

Are you absolutely sure? I see a few things amiss with what you have

just described. First, no one ever has to sign anything. I cannot

imagine a law requiring someone to sign something. (I allow exceptions

for IRS tax returns and the like - but then you don't have to file a

tax return either - you can choose to go to prison.) I'd like to see

that law(s) if there be one (or more than one), and what the

consequence is for failure to sign something. This is not to mean that

spedmins have not *told* parents they are required to sign something,

like a consent form or an IEP. I had a client who was locked in a room

for 3 hours by a program supervisor, when she refused to sign the IEP

at the conclusion of a 5 hour IEPC meeting. Her husband came looking

for her and found her locked in. He called the cops. They got a very

nice financial settlement out of the lawsuit. What stuns me is that

the supervisor still has her job. But that's an extreme case. Most of

the time they just intimidate parents into signing things. It is

stated that one must sign the attendence sheet (in MI, it's on the

front page of the IEP) but if one wanted to be a real jerk and not sign

in in attendence, I can't see what they could do about it.

Secondly, federal law does not allow a child to go without an IEP.

Once the child is in special education, an IEP must be written no less

than every 12 months, unless the child is at some point declared

INeligible, at which time an exit IEP is written. An exit IEP is also

written when the student graduates. Failure to sign an IEP has been

interpreted by the feds as a no-contest, but disapproval. I cannot

imagine that a state plan would survive federal scrutiny (after all,

the federal $$ hinges on it) that would allow for a child to go without

an IEP if his/her parent(s) refused to sign it. Federal law takes

precedence over state law, unless the state law grants the

parents/student MORE benefits than does the federal law. Having a

child go without an IEP is not a benefit.

Celeste

[Guest guest]

This was because it was your FIRST IEP. Remember, I wrote that **once

a child is in special ed....**? In any event, the situation was

handled improperly, IMHO. I'd have to see your state rules, tho. In

MI, if this happened for an initial IEP, the district would have to

establish an **interim** IEP, which would allow the child to get the

services everyone could agree on (or at least agree on temporarily)

until a regular IEP could be established, either by mutual agreement,

mediation or a hearing.

I recall you mentioning before that you rejected parts of the IEP.

Pursuant to IDEA, that really isn't possible. You agree or disagree

with the IEP in toto. In MI, any member of the team, parents included,

can write a minority report to the superintendant, explaining what they

disagree with and why. Even if that is not mentioned in your state

rules, there is nothing to stop one from doing so. However, pursuant

to the '97 amendments, if you contest the IEP (by requesting mediation

and/or a due process hearing), the parents must submit to the school

district a written " Notice of Disagreement " in which one lists the

issue(s) of disagreement and the proposed solution(s) to same. If the

parents, or their agent, do not do this, even if they prevail in the

contest, they may be denied reimbursement for attorneys fees. (I

always write the Notice of Disagreement for my clients). But the point

I want to make is that one really does not agree with some of the IEP

and disagree with other parts. That's not the way the law looks at it,

tho that is the reality of the situation.

Since your disagreement occurred with the initial IEP, I don't believe

any federal rules were violated, tho it was handled very poorly. Gee,

why am I not surprised?

Celeste

>celestej@... writes:

>

><< Secondly, federal law does not allow a child to go without an IEP. >>

>Hi Celeste! It took us 8 months to get an IEP and I didn't sign the first

>three because they wanted to make changes and wanted to work with us. I

>listened to them. By the time we got our 4th rewritten IEP I signed and

>rejected portions; I filed three complaints against the system and we ended

>up winning in our favor but the major complaint the state had with us since

>we didn't sign any IEP before this rejected portion one. It showed we didn't

>want to work with them, the state never saw any of these IEP'S and since

>there was no signed IEP the town didn't need to provide service and we were

>lucky to get the service. They did find the system in fault for my complaints

>because I had finally signed an IEP. So are you saying they were wrong in

>doing this? Just a reminder this was our daughter's first IEP. She had

>nothing to fall back on. Guess what we signed in October for last March and

>it goes up in a few weeks. They now don't want to keep my daughter in town

>and they want to send her out. She is the only hard of hearing child in the

>town. Well, I have a new fight on our hands. My daughter will remain with her

>siblings in our town. Our academic programs far exceeds the self contained

>classroom for hard of hearing children in another town. there is no need to

>remove her from a mainstreamed classroom and place her in a self contained

>but she takes up too much of their time with speech. Oh well. please let me

>know Celeste if this was wrong. thanks Lori

>

>>All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is

the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright

restrictions.

>

[Guest guest]

Lori, where do you call about an advocate? And do you need one only at the

point your child is transitioning to the school district, or are they

helpful while you are covered by Early Intervention? (I live in MA, which

is where I think you live.)

Thanks,

Stefanie

>do you have an advocate? It should be someone who specializes in deaf and

>hard of hearing issues. I have found my meetings are very heated and with an

>advocate she addresses most of the concerns and I end up not taking so much

>of the stress in the meetings. We received one from the state agency which

>deals with hard of hearing and deaf children FREE! I still have to do all the

>leg work but they treat us with more respect -- sometimes really only when

>the advocate is present. You should look into one. Lori

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/15/99 12:18:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,

scaruso3@... writes:

<< Lori, where do you call about an advocate? And do you need one only at the

point your child is transitioning to the school district, or are they

helpful while you are covered by Early Intervention? (I live in MA, which

is where I think you live.)

Thanks,

Stefanie >>

Hi Stefanie! Yes, I live in MA. I called the Mass Commission for Deaf and

Hard of Hearing. This past year they hired three child advocates. They help

with any age. I think they are fabulous. If you need equipment, help getting

service, where to go, etc.... You need to call the Boston office and they

will assign you one depending on your district in which you live. Where do

you live may I ask? We just joined a parent's organization to help with deaf

and hard of hearing children. they are also very resourceful. They hold

events for the whole family with their hearing siblings! Let me know if you

are interested or maybe they can tell me where there might be one in your

location. I live next to Worcester. You can also get a manual free of charge

of resources from Mass Commission. The number to call for Commission is

1-or . You can definitely email off onelist if you

have any questions and I can give you my number. Lori

[Guest guest]

At 12:04 AM 12/15/99 -0500, you wrote:

>

>

>Lori, where do you call about an advocate? And do you need one only at the

>point your child is transitioning to the school district, or are they

>helpful while you are covered by Early Intervention? (I live in MA, which

>is where I think you live.)

Call the Federation for Children with Special Needs, Tremont Street,

Boston. An advocate can be helpful anytime.

Chris

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