Re: Technique of Intervention (Long)

[Guest guest]

i would be interested in what the response is.

dave

Abe Chalef wrote:

>

> Hi Guys,

>

> Thought I'd send you a copy of my mail I just sent to this group. The

> gist of all this I hope is self explanatory.

>

> Keep up the good work.

>

> Abe

> ---------------------------------------------------------------

> From: abec@...

> To: harmreductiononelist

> Subject: Re: Technique of Intervention (Long)

> Date sent: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:08:57 +0200

> -------------------------------------------------------------

> Date sent: 25 Apr 1999 19:48:04 -0000

> To: abec@...

> Subject: [harmreduction] Welcome to harmreductiononelist

> From: harmreduction-owneronelist Send reply to:

> harmreductiononelist

>

> > Greetings,

> >

> > This list is for people who work in the field of addictions or

> those who

> > have been through the recovery thing themselves. Please share you

> > idieas, and experience.

> >

> > Here we discuss drug policy and how that effects our work. Current

> harm

> > reduction practices, what works, what does not, what we would like

> to

> > see changed.

>

> > Thanks,

> > Tammy Desjardins

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> As a total newbe, it may be presumptuous of me writing, but due to

> pressure being brought to bear on me, I thought I might perhaps allow

> others to benefit from my experience.

>

> I am 53, a professional with my own company. I have been drinking

> alcohol all my adult life. Initially, in moderation.

>

> About 20 years ago, I went through some very tough emotional periods

> due

> to my parents being ill and eventually both passing away, as well as

> having to deal with 3 small children and a wife seriously hurt and

> with head injuries from a motor car accident.

>

> I found that a couple of stiff drinks helped relieve the tensions and

> allowed me to relax.

>

> Over the years, every time I was tense, worried, or felt pressured, I

> reached for the Scotch and for a short period, there was some blessed

> relief.

>

> Unfortunately, like everyone knows, it didn't stop there. I found

> that it took more and more Scotch to get the same buzz.

>

> Needless to say, I became drunk and of course my family resented it.

> Especially when I said things better suppressed.

>

> To compound the problem, I was diagnosed with high grade dysplasia

> and had a total colectomy last year. Walking into hospital feeling

> healthy and leaving it as an invalid who cannot even control his

> bowels is a soul destroying experience. Naturally, when I was able

> to. I reached for the bottle.

>

> Through all the years, I never missed work, or even had many

> hangovers due to my drinking. However, during the course of last year

> and early this year, I found that I was drinking every night and not

> just binging periodically. I found that I was beginning to get

> hangovers and the cure was simply to have a " hair of the dog " in the

> morning.

>

> About 10 weeks ago, I woke up feeling miserable, and decided, enough

> is enough and stopped drinking completely. It was my own volition and

> my own decision.

>

> Obviously, my family was worried about my drinking and in an attempt

> to deal with it asked for professional help.

>

> What followed, however became a total and absolute disaster.

> Unbeknown to me, my wife and children where coached and given all

> sorts of information and facts and figures by this institution.

>

> On the appointed day I was told that this would be an " interview and

> assessment " . We entered an office with chairs in a circle and after a

> brief introduction to two " psychologists/counsellors " the fun and

> games began. Each one of my children was asked to comment and

> produced a sheaf of notes from which they read a litany of my

> misdemeanours over the years.

>

> The atmosphere in this office was totally belligerent and

> confrontative. I was made to feel that I was the worst thing that

> ever crawled out from under a rock. That I had no moral values. That

> I had no control over my life. That I had lost all spiritual values

> and had noself respect. That I didn't deserve to have a family. etc

> etc. After an hour of this, I was given the alternative of signing in

> as an in-patient and subsequent membership to the AA or I will be

> damned and die a horrible death and destroy my family in the process.

>

> Having felt guilty about my previous behaviour, freely gone to this

> " institution " in an effort to both help myself and make amends, and

> after this emotional battering, I actually agreed that this was the

> correct step to take.

>

> The following day, I awoke with the realization, that I had been

> " conned " . That the whole episode was stage managed and that my family

> had been rehearsed.

>

> As mentioned before, I have my own company. I cannot just walk out

> for 3-4 weeks without prior preparation. when I tried to reason with

> my family, all hell broke loose. They where well rehearsed. Threats

> and more threats where used. All reason was lost. All I could hear

> was a constant barrage of verbal abuse.

>

> My wife demanded of me on numerous occaisions that I leave home " till

> I sorted myself out " . My son was dragged into one of these requests

> and spent a good 10 minutes insulting me and alluding to my

> worthlessness as a man, husband and father and now refuses to speak

> to me " until I detoxify and sign in as an in-patient " .

>

> My wife even took the trouble to visit this institution on a " family

> day " to see for herself what " good " works this institution does.

>

> Unfortunately, my family where " brainwashed " . I still to this day

> don't know what transpired during their briefings.

>

> I decided, that since I have the strength of will to quit drinking on

> my own, a bit of positive reinforcement and counselling to help me

> understand and cope with the various " triggers " would be the way to

> go. That is precisely what I have arranged.

>

> The window of opportunity to diffuse the situation would have been

> the first week perhaps even the second week after this

> " intervention " . Unfortunately, my family where so indoctrinated, that

> if I reasoned with my wife and she went to speak to the kids, she was

> instantly turned around by them. This diffusion has not and now

> cannot at this late stage take place.

>

> It has left me full of anger and resentment against the so called

> established institutions and their barbaric methods. Additionally it

> has created an untenable situation in my home.

>

> I refuse to bow to any pressure, which maintains that I have no

> control over my actions and must submit my will to a higher power.

> I do not need anyone to force spirituality down my throat nor to

> teach me that alcohol abuse is the personification of weakness and

> evil.

>

> I do however need compassion, understanding and support. Thanks to

> the inappropriate methods used, these are not forthcoming from my

> family.

>

> The purpose of this rambling mail, is to show that many institutions

> maintain a completely wrong approach and sadly, the profit motive (

> they are businesses after all) reigns supreme. That not all alcohol

> abusers are the same. Different strokes for different folks.

>

> People please, if you are in the health care field, take note that

> the " cure " may be worse than the " disease " . If you abuse a substance,

> note that you have the will and power to overcome your addiction. You

> may need help of various kinds, but it can be done. If you are an

> abuser's family, be warned. There are all sorts of inappropriate

> approaches which may exacerbate and not cure the problem.

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

---

<snip>

>

> ...I refuse to bow to any pressure, which maintains that I have no

> control over my actions and must submit my will to a higher power.

> I do not need anyone to force spirituality down my throat nor to

> teach me that alcohol abuse is the personification of weakness and

> evil.

>

> I do however need compassion, understanding and support. Thanks to

> the inappropriate methods used, these are not forthcoming from my

> family.

>

> The purpose of this rambling mail, is to show that many institutions

> maintain a completely wrong approach and sadly, the profit motive

> (they are businesses after all) reigns supreme. That not all alcohol

> abusers are the same. Different strokes for different folks.

>

> People please, if you are in the health care field, take note that

> the " cure " may be worse than the " disease " . If you abuse a substance,

> note that you have the will and power to overcome your addiction. You

> may need help of various kinds, but it can be done. If you are an

> abuser's family, be warned. There are all sorts of inappropriate

> approaches which may exacerbate and not cure the problem.

>

---------------------------

Abe, that was a very powerful letter. I hope it raises the consciousness

of those to whom it was sent, or at least gives them pause to think. It is

absolutely outrageous for someone to be criticized, rather than praised and

supported, for making the decision to " turn over a new leaf " and reform

themselves under their _own_ God-given power.

I am in the process of composing a paper for my rabbi on the conflicts

between 12-step/ " disease " concept ideology and Jewish philosophy and tradition.

While I know standard recovery philosophy and " the AA way of life " is

inappropriate and can be a turnoff for many people, I think it is especially

repugnant and inappropriate for Jews. I have found JACS to be shameless

apologists for AA, suggesting such outrageous things as " if you say the Sh'ma

silently while everyone else is saying the " Lord's Prayer " , the meeting will

become more of a Jewish experience for you. " Most rabbis, like most doctors,

recommend AA to people with drinking problems, while having no idea what it's

really about. If you would like to discuss this topic with me, please e-mail me

privately.

Zeit Gezunt,

Rita

-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----

http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

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[Guest guest]

I have found this group to be full of understanding and compassion and

sanity, all of which are lacking in the " treatment industry " .

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[Guest guest]

Dear group,

New to twelve-step free, I would like to introduce myself. I have

through all means of XA, tried to stay drug free insuccessfully for years.

Only to find that

I am the cause of all the problems in my life. I have been almost two weeks

without

a meeting but fear that the fourteen years of brainwashing I have acquired in

AA

has taken its toll. I am writing this letter to reaffirm what I always knew,

AA is a

religious organization, subscribing to beliefs not of my own. I look forward

to communicating with all of you.

Thanks,

Robby

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[Guest guest]

Dear Rita,

Thank you for your concern. A griesen dank.

I too found JACS to be a very weak forum populated by AA apologists who recommend 90 AA meetings in 90 days as the universal cure-all. In this evenings JACS Digest they have this beauty -

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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:45:09 EDT

From: V <BSE34AOL (DOT) COM>

Subject: Re: JACS Digest - 25 Apr 1999 to 26 Apr 1999 (#1999-99)

Dear ,

You have come to the right list....the majority of us have been in exactly the same position you are in now, and we keep sober a day at a time. Yes, Orthodox, observant, educated Jews suffer from the disease of alcoholism.

You don't say where you live, but the best thing you can do right now is to call Alcoholics Anonymous....(listed in the phone book), and start going to meetings...90 meetings in 90 days is what is suggested...get telephone numbers from people who offer them, and say that you are new and need help. Our support goes with you.......

Hugs, V. in Las Vegas (Research Advisor, JACS)

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Send reply to: 12-step-freeegroups

To: 12-step-freeegroups

Date sent: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:28:20 -0700

From: "Railroad Rita" <railroadritamy-dejanews>

Copies to: abecnew (DOT) co.za

Organization: Deja News Mail (http://www.my-dejanews.com:80)

Subject: Re: Technique of Intervention (Long)

> Abe, that was a very powerful letter. I hope it raises the

> consciousness of those to whom it was sent, or at least gives them

> pause to think. It is absolutely outrageous for someone to be

> criticized, rather than praised and supported, for making the

> decision to "turn over a new leaf" and reform themselves under their

> _own_ God-given power.

>

> I am in the process of composing a paper for my rabbi on the

> conflicts between 12-step/ "disease" concept ideology and Jewish

> philosophy and tradition. While I know standard recovery philosophy

> and "the AA way of life" is inappropriate and can be a turnoff for

> many people, I think it is especially repugnant and inappropriate for

> Jews. I have found JACS to be shameless apologists for AA,

> suggesting such outrageous things as "if you say the Sh'ma silently

> while everyone else is saying the "Lord's Prayer", the meeting will

> become more of a Jewish experience for you." Most rabbis, like most

> doctors, recommend AA to people with drinking problems, while having

> no idea what it's really about. If you would like to discuss this

> topic with me, please e-mail me privately.

>

> Zeit Gezunt,

> Rita

I have opted for private counselling and using my own intelligence. This group & SOS help me see that I am not alone in this battle for sobriety and that it can be done without becoming a Zombie.

Its early days for me yet and I am not under the dellusion that it will be an easy road. However, I have come this far & intend to perservere.

Thanks for a great group.

Abe

[Guest guest]

At 08:41 PM 4/27/99 EDT, JTerry8915@... wrote:

>Dear group,

> New to twelve-step free, I would like to introduce myself. I have

>through all means of XA, tried to stay drug free insuccessfully for years.

>Only to find that

>I am the cause of all the problems in my life.

You may be the 'cause' of many or most of the problems in your life, but

I don't believe there is any person who is the cause of ALL their own

problems.

I'm not sure if you write that as an actual belief, or if you're just

saying that's what you've been told in 12-step programs. I and others

were told this and many other harmful and incorrect things. Part of why I

subscribe to this list is to unlearn these things.

> I have been almost two weeks

>without

>a meeting but fear that the fourteen years of brainwashing I have acquired

in

>AA

>has taken its toll.

That's a lot. I went to meetings for over nine years, the last five or

so years not believing anything but struggling with leaving my 'friends'.

I think back and remind myself they were not meaningful friends, they were

and still are robots, 'chanting these slogans in all their affairs'.

You don't have to ever go back. I haven't been back in over a year.

>I am writing this letter to reaffirm what I always knew,

>AA is a

>religious organization, subscribing to beliefs not of my own. I look

forward

>to communicating with all of you.

Welcome, and if you haven't seen it already, check out a site another

member of this list has set up: <http://www.aadeprogramming.com>.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Robby

-----

<http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley> New and Improved!

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[Guest guest]

joe,

" HIGH GRADE bullshit " . very funny stuff. i almost shot my starbucks

coffee out my nose! one thing i'll say about A.A.; it gave me a good

understanding of how a cult dynamic works on multiple levels and what

the appeal of relgion and cults are to human nature. Today i belive that

as long as humans are mortal, there will always be a group like A.A. or

(insert cult name here) that claims to have a solution to our problems.

Honestly i would love to see A.A. dry up like a tumbleweed and blow away

because on some levels a.a. is evil in my book. Any group which has a

program of institutionaly lying to thsoe in need is evil. But i dont

think A.A. will go away. Like a cockroach, it will find a way to stay

alive. What i absolutly want to see is an end of court mnadated A.A.

attandance. I want to see people being told that they have a choice in

what program they can choose for sobriety.

Dave

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[Guest guest]

At 08:41 PM 4/27/99 EDT, you wrote:

>Dear group,

> New to twelve-step free, I would like to introduce myself. I have

>through all means of XA, tried to stay drug free insuccessfully for years.

>Only to find that

>I am the cause of all the problems in my life. I have been almost two weeks

>without

>a meeting but fear that the fourteen years of brainwashing I have acquired

in

>AA

>has taken its toll. I am writing this letter to reaffirm what I always

knew,

>AA is a

>religious organization, subscribing to beliefs not of my own. I look

forward

>to communicating with all of you.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Robby

Hi and welcome. Just to reassure you, although it sounds too simplistic to

be true- if someone have been subjected to programming in 12 step

fellowships for several years and has had no outside information, then-

everything they know is wrong! It is a slightly flippant way to express it,

but based on my own experience of being a stepper I think this is close to

the truth. Almost everything that is taught in 12 step programs is wrong.

The definition of the problem as some sort of disease from which no human

agency can provide recovery (not true), the definition of the solution to

this fabricated problem as being some sort of spiritual cum religious

process coupled with a lifelong dependancy on attending meetings of

believers and regurgitating a set of religious principles (defintitely not

true- this is not the solution to ANY problem I have heard of let alone a

solution to a problem that doesn't exist in the first place!) and all the

associated religious pedantry and pious mumblings, it is all nonsense. Not

just any old nonsense, mind you- but poisonous, invasive, mind-numbing

bullshit. Bullshit that breaks up families and abuses and manipulates

vulnerable people with amateur psychotherapy and cult mind control

techniques practiced by ignorant zealots. This is not just any kind of

bullshit- it is HIGH GRADE bullshit! Like I said- welcome.

Joe Berenbaum

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