Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 You are a wacko. You called it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 Get a life. I don't believe anyone but Ken Ragge should respond to this. At 02:02 AM 6/8/99 -0000, you wrote: >What is so absolutely appalling is how everyone just believes everything that is told to them on the internet as true, regardless of logic. Falsely accusing someone of a sexual assault is against the law. At least it was the last time I went to school. > >Tell me, how would you feel if you are the one falsely accused? Or worse, the victim of an assault of the same person, and there is no conviction, because no one will come forward to help convict the perpetrator. > >Ever think that possibly some of the stuff isn't true? That someone is lying to you? > >Interesting how everyone seems to jump on the Hate-AA bandwagon as easily as the AA cult members jump on the AA-the-only-way bandwagon. Hate mail and ugly comments welcome! > >And Apple, if you read this, how come you didn't post those other emails sent to you? Didn't jive with the fact that you think I am a wacko huh? Well thats okay, you will probably change those around in your favor too. >Type away all, I'll be having a good day regardless. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Make the News Come to you! >FREE email newsletters sent directly to your in-box >USAToday, Forbes, Wired, and more. Sign-up NOW! >http://clickhere./click/316 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > --- Up With People! Visit: Information on recovery alternatives at Http:\\www.BCRecovernet.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 Anonymous, You have been removed from the 12-step-free list. You don't belong here. Don't come back. Ken Ragge ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 At 02:02 AM 6/8/99 -0000, you wrote: >What is so absolutely appalling is how everyone just believes everything that is told to them on the internet as true, regardless of logic. Falsely accusing someone of a sexual assault is against the law. At least it was the last time I went to school. Well hello. Amd which specific accusation do you refer to? >Tell me, how would you feel if you are the one falsely accused? Can we go back to my first question first? Which specific accusation do you refer to? > Or worse, the victim of an assault of the same person, and there is no conviction, because no one will come forward to help convict the perpetrator. Have we moved from an accusation to an actual assault now? Which victim of which specific assault are you referring to? ARE you referring to a specific assault? >Ever think that possibly some of the stuff isn't true? Yes. You haven't made a particularly outsatanding impression so far, if you don't mind my saying so. > That someone is lying to you? Yes. We know. >Interesting how everyone seems to jump on the Hate-AA bandwagon as easily as the AA cult members jump on the AA-the-only-way bandwagon. What is your esteemed bandwagon? > Hate mail and ugly comments welcome! That's not healthy, is it. >And Apple, if you read this, how come you didn't post those other emails sent to you? Didn't jive with the fact that you think I am a wacko huh? Well thats okay, you will probably change those around in your favor too. Actually Apple gave a very good reason for this. I was impressewd. It was about not coming down to that level. >Type away all, I'll be having a good day regardless. Regardless of what? Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 At 07:22 PM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Get a life. >I don't believe anyone but Ken Ragge should respond to this. I believe you're right. But I didn't stop myself soon enough. I have responded to a wacko. Maybe I should call an investigator. Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 Those of us on this list are on your so-called " AA-Hate Bandwagon " because we've experienced the meetings, steps, sponsors, etc. etc and got to the point where a little voice inside of us said something is not ringing true for us. Some of us wrestled with our thoughts for a long time before deciding to discontinue meeting attendance and working steps, etc. Personally, I've never wanted to be part of an organization with the 'us' versus 'them' attitude I heard in meetings so much. There are members who have their heads screwed on right and are there to help people stop drinking and nothing else but there are way too many who claim ideas such as the above and try to rewrite newcomers' whole lives, to their detriment. There's too much of a dangerous influence on newcomers from people (such as my husband with 13 years in meetings who tailors his 12-step work on new young women) who have ulterior motives. And everyone else looks the other way and lets go and lets God. And then when the newcomer goes in and out and in and out, he/she is blamed cause they weren't working the program. Do you understand that we all have been in the meetings. We have lived it - we are not 'outsiders' who never set foot in an AA meeting. and yes, resend your email posts to Apple if you still have them. we're not afraid to read them. Jan I'm the wacko >What is so absolutely appalling is how everyone just believes everything that is told to them on the internet as true, regardless of logic. Falsely accusing someone of a sexual assault is against the law. At least it was the last time I went to school. > >Tell me, how would you feel if you are the one falsely accused? Or worse, the victim of an assault of the same person, and there is no conviction, because no one will come forward to help convict the perpetrator. > >Ever think that possibly some of the stuff isn't true? That someone is lying to you? > >Interesting how everyone seems to jump on the Hate-AA bandwagon as easily as the AA cult members jump on the AA-the-only-way bandwagon. Hate mail and ugly comments welcome! > >And Apple, if you read this, how come you didn't post those other emails sent to you? Didn't jive with the fact that you think I am a wacko huh? Well thats okay, you will probably change those around in your favor too. >Type away all, I'll be having a good day regardless. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Make the News Come to you! >FREE email newsletters sent directly to your in-box >USAToday, Forbes, Wired, and more. Sign-up NOW! >http://clickhere./click/316 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 1999 Report Share Posted June 10, 1999 Hi Jan; You mentioned men who tailor there 12 step actually 13 step work to new young women. Very vulnerable young women, who have been beaten down by life with alcoholism. AA or not, these guys are sexual predators. If it was The Lions Club, they would get a resignation request. However, the AA doctrine allows folks to look the other way and giggle. I have a married pal with nearly 40 years sober and he's still at it. Or was two years ago, which was the last time I saw him. To me this is a lack of moarals and self control, consistent with being helpless over one's urges. It is consistent with the AA doctrine of powerlessness and lack of responsibilities. If I'm attracted to one of my wife's friends, I am not responsible for the thought, but I damnwell am responsible for what I do about it! I control my conduct, period! No higher power is going to rescue me from being an adulterer, it's my desire and knowlege to be a family man that stops me. Besides which, Rose would not look the other way and say " Well, at least he's sober " She'd do surgery on me! Her self respect could not allow me to do that without her taking some kind of action. I believe these things are usually unspoken and totally understood in a marriage relationship. How could I claim morals and heap abuse on my wife at the same time? To me that's totally irrational. But such is the nature of AA, where success is not measured by the content of a person's character, but by the number of years they have abstained from the use of alcohol. Am I one of a vocal minority that says this picture sucks? Or are we who see this in the majority, some forced into silence, some intimidated into silence and many just not connected since we have no central source of connection, save the internet? I can't help but believe it's the latter. Rural AA groups are dying and what starts on the farm, eventually gets to the city. Till later ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 1999 Report Share Posted June 10, 1999 Hi Joe; That letter is pretty unclear, but bothersome. First, if it's Apple they're after, why post it to the group? Rather sounds like someone with an axe to grind and cannot locate the grindstone. First it's a false accusation, then later there is an assault victim, sort of. If this person wants to be believeable, she better state a case, not just throw around unspecified accusations. I've had prior experience with women using that " advocate " handle. On another group, a woman had moved away from her boyfriend and was inquiring in the group if anyone knew how to get her name off the apartment lease, because her ex wasn't paying the rent. Here is the advice one of those advocates gave her; Go to court and get a restraining order, make sure it includes a " Kick Out " provison for your ex, then buy a gun and get training on how to use it " There was more, but all in the same vein. This woman at no time said she was in fear, she was worried about her credit, that's all. It may be the same person with a different handle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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