Re: helpplease!

February 16, 1999

Kim, I understand so well...

I think that you are telling my tale.

I used to be a laid back, easy going person. Happy go lucky, I was called.

Then I got sober and turned into an uptight bitch.

I'm the holier than thou sober woman!

I don't know how we learn to go back to the relaxed mode, but one reason I

quit AA is because I saw that ugly side of myself.

I used to have a lot of friends, laugh a lot, dance a lot...didn't have to

drink to have fun.

Now I worry about how much money I have in my checking account, getting

ahead in the working world, etc.

So let's learn to chill out!

When you find the answer, let me know.

Ang

" I haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister. "

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

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February 16, 1999

<<But I can't help myself! " (yikes)

or " but I can't stop! " It is to the point now where the stress of

overwork is near killing me and the opposite of what cult says is true-

if I don't stop and relax and have fun and take a walk in the

park,a bath,etc.do some serious major relaxing I will die from stess-

related health problems.(Ok-I exxagerate a little.Maybe)Anyone else

have/had this problem ? Comments? Suggestions to deprogram welcome.

Thanks,>>

Hi Kim:

I was a workaholic after I quit drinking too. I found specific help for this

in the assertiveness book How to Be An assertive (not agressive woman) by Jean

Baer.

Setting limits, boundaries & stuff.

But on this site WE DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO. So I won't.

Apple

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February 16, 1999

i think you prety much know what to do. take that walk in the park.

You may condsider exercise, or some other type physical activity.

what do you do for recreation? when i was A.A., i was told by my sponsor

and others that these things dont keep anyone sober, only working the

Program will. well, that an all out lie.

These things do keep you sober, these are things that help make life

enjoyable, that we didnt do when we drank. (i didnt have time, money,

motavation to do any of these when i drank) I always told myself when if

i were to quit drinking i would quit smoking and start exercising, ridng

my bike, working out, as i did before i drank or smoked. When i quit

drinking, i started to do exercise and tried to quit smoking withing 3

months of becoming sober. My sponsor disapproved, he claimed thse things

didnt keep anyone sober, and i should be spending my freetime at a

meeting. I unfortunatly listened to him at that time.

(he by the way, smoked 2 packs a day, and was about 100 Lbs. overwieght

and took poor general care of his health and personal hygiene. he did

live above his home group, and spent all hsi free time socializing at

meetings between meetings.)

I now do all those things. When im in the gym or with a friend at 8:30pm

, i thank god im not wasting time in a smoked filled meeting. (or a bar)

My advise is spend less time working on improving yourself with

" self-help " theories, and try spending that energy on doing the things

you like, or with peopel you care about. Otherwise its like a dog

chasing hsi tail, if you seek improvement its alwasy out of reach.

I found that if stopped looking to make myself better by someone else's

standard (A.A. for instance is setting a standard for what they say is

healthy), and did the things that make me good about myself, allow

myself to be open to growth as it occurs, rather than trying to force it

to happen a certain way and in a particualr numerical order (sounds

absurd when you think about it taht way, doesnt it?) i felt better. what

do you think? hope thats helpful.

-Dave

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February 16, 1999

Kim,

also these ideas i have told you of were what kept me sober and help me

not to buy inot the Programing i was being taught. As i did theese

things is waht sparked growth in new and non preconceived way, and made

that growth that much more interesting and wonderful. Its insane to

believe that for a group of people the only viable way to lasting

growth and sobriety is one path.

In A.A. this would be seen as being self-centered, well of course it

is.It means listening to what you enjoy and find pleasurable, and

fullfilling. My sponsor also told me my art wouldnt keep me sober. Im an

artist. The the thing they dont get is sobriety is everything you

exeperince. Not jsut one path, or aspect of self. How can one be happy

if they are constantly dividing and comaprtimentlizing themselves up

that way? my art is a expression of me and a vechical for growth it's

self. So as i exeperinced life again sober outisde of A.A., the

contradictions of what i experinced and what was being taught to me

where irreconcilable. The repsressions of self and indivduality being

pushed me werent able to stick.

-Dave

Dave wrote:

>

> i think you prety much know what to do. take that walk in the park.

> You may condsider exercise, or some other type physical activity.

> what do you do for recreation? when i was A.A., i was told by my sponsor

> and others that these things dont keep anyone sober, only working the

> Program will. well, that an all out lie.

>

> These things do keep you sober, these are things that help make life

> enjoyable, that we didnt do when we drank. (i didnt have time, money,

> motavation to do any of these when i drank) I always told myself when if

> i were to quit drinking i would quit smoking and start exercising, ridng

> my bike, working out, as i did before i drank or smoked. When i quit

> drinking, i started to do exercise and tried to quit smoking withing 3

> months of becoming sober. My sponsor disapproved, he claimed thse things

> didnt keep anyone sober, and i should be spending my freetime at a

> meeting. I unfortunatly listened to him at that time.

>

> (he by the way, smoked 2 packs a day, and was about 100 Lbs. overwieght

> and took poor general care of his health and personal hygiene. he did

> live above his home group, and spent all hsi free time socializing at

> meetings between meetings.)

>

> I now do all those things. When im in the gym or with a friend at 8:30pm

> , i thank god im not wasting time in a smoked filled meeting. (or a bar)

>

> My advise is spend less time working on improving yourself with

> " self-help " theories, and try spending that energy on doing the things

> you like, or with peopel you care about. Otherwise its like a dog

> chasing hsi tail, if you seek improvement its alwasy out of reach.

>

> I found that if stopped looking to make myself better by someone else's

> standard (A.A. for instance is setting a standard for what they say is

> healthy), and did the things that make me good about myself, allow

> myself to be open to growth as it occurs, rather than trying to force it

> to happen a certain way and in a particualr numerical order (sounds

> absurd when you think about it taht way, doesnt it?) i felt better. what

> do you think? hope thats helpful.

> -Dave

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Recipes, relationships. Horoscopes, health.

> Fashion, fitness. If it's about women, it's at HomeArts.com.

> http://offers./click/212/0

>

February 16, 1999

At 11:48 AM 2/16/99 PST, you wrote:

>Help please! I could really use some help/feedback on a serious problem

>I have due to the cult and how to deprogram from it. The problem is I've

>turned into a serious workaholic in terms of self-help. Before I got to

>cult I was blissfully lazy, easygoing, and a lot of fun, partygirl. The

>last 5 years in and the last 1 out of cult I've been like on a treadmill

>of meetings and other self-help groups, self-help books(as though I

>always have to be " programming "

>myself with one thing or another),stressed out to the max,not relaxing

>enough,it is seriously affecting my health in a negative way. This I

>believe is caused by the cult myth that if you stop working on yourself

>you'll backslide,relapse and die ( " complacency is the

>enemy.. " , " half-measures avail us nothing " , " we keep what we have only

>with vigilance " ,and of course " WILLINGNESS,WILLINGNESS,WILLINGNESS! "

>(WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT FROM ME,A PINT OF BLOOD? There's hardly

>anything left of me to work on!It seems simple enough-just relax then

>and don't work so hard. But I find myself driven, compelled to . Maybe

>this is Step 1 B.S.(OK,I know it is)-Learned helplessness to a T! I

>find myself often saying to myself " But I can't help myself! " (yikes)

>or " but I can't stop! " It is to the point now where the stress of

>overwork is near killing me and the opposite of what cult says is true-

>if I don't stop and relax and have fun and take a walk in the

>park,a bath,etc.do some serious major relaxing I will die from stess-

>related health problems.(Ok-I exxagerate a little.Maybe)Anyone else

>have/had this problem ? Comments? Suggestions to deprogram welcome.

>Thanks,

> Kim.

Ah, the Protestant Work Ethic of Recovery- Work, Work, Work. Work On

Yourself. Are You Working On Yourself? I really found a great deal of help

for this in an approach called Psychology of Mind. The book that made all

the difference was The Serenity Principle by Joe . Its a small book,

not expensive, easy to read, and it deals with the Work For Recovery myth,

along with many other recovery myths. It doesn't support the 12 step model

at all. POM is the opposite of a disease model- it is a health model. It is

very empowering. They say that rather than focusing on our supposed

patholgy, we do best when we focus on the innate health that functions

inside us like a psychological immune system. Revolutionary stuff,

especially when compared to more traditional ways. It helped me hugely. The

idea is that we already have what we need to live healthily, inside us, and

that we can " access " it easily. We have healthy mental functioning built

in. We have an internal guidance system built in. We don't need supposedly

more knowledgeable others telling us what to do- deep inside we already

know. We don't need to look for answers on the outside once we learn to use

what is inside. This approach is already showing impressive results with

all sorts of population groups and apparently it works for communites as

well as individuals. I've got several POM books and it is focused on

addiction, education, relationships, work relationships, all sorts of

stuff. has another more recent book called Slowing Down To the Speed

of Life. I've got that one too, but now I'm too laid back to read it...

You can order the books easily over the web from the PM web site, which I

could find for anyone who is interested.

Joe Berenbaum

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February 17, 1999

Program yourself. Write your own programs. We are self-programming organisms

anyway, though we often copy external patterns. Decide who and what you want

to be and go with it.

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February 17, 1999

Hi, For anxiety try St. 's Wort, 5HTP together from the health food

store. Then buy some relaxation tapes even the ones with the alpha, theta

waves blended into the music. Weeks book " Help for Your Nerves "

shows you how to float above the physical anxiety. Read " Rapid Relief for

Emotional Distress. " Emotions cannot hurt you unless you fight against

them. No body can do anything to you through voodoo. Take care, Carol

Oh yeah, and check out Bullets for Your Beast and you will KNOW you can

remain sober no problemeo in any situation and for all time.

Http://www.rational.org

You'll laugh!