Buchman and Hitler/Himmler

[Guest guest]

In Denmark there have been some debate whether Buchman was

sympathetic to the nazis or not.

Some elements of nazi ideology might have attracted him, and it's known

that he stayed in a hotel in Berlin for some time during the war.

Buchman's follower, (english journalist) uses lots of

pages to prove that he was NOT a nazi. According to he actually

met with Himmler ( or Goebbels ), but no cooperation was made. But at

least he attempted to!

I've read some MRA books in my hunt for AA, and they are just as boring

as AA-members telling their stories. The same story again and again.

Buchman said that 'the sin is the disease'. This meant that in the

moment you asked God to take your sins (bad habits) away, you would be

clean. To me it seems that AA have reversed this statement. Saying that

the disease is making you a sinner. Any comments on that?

Fasces (old roman symbol) was made by canes with an ax in the middle,

symbolizing the right to punish and execute. Everybody who disturbed the

general order of things.

Like communism fascism is using the concept of the whole to suppress and

persecute the individual.

To me it seems that the society is contracting more and more. New groups

are to be treated for their misbehavior, and it's very disturbing to

think of the end of this path.

Every step seems so logical. In Denmark some have proposed that we

should take blood samples of every school child from 11-15 years to stop

the children's experimentation with drugs. Seemingly logical, and

difficult to argue against. When this doesn't work, what will the next

step be? In my view history shows that making heaven on earth always

results in catastrophe. In danish there is this saying that the road to

hell is paved with good intentions.

I have been looking for the theological roots for the Oxford Group

Movement, and a former Jehovah Witness (he has started a group for

expelled members) has suggested that they belong to an eschatologist

(the last times) movement that started in the end of the last century.

They describe themselves as 'the first christians', uncorrupted by

centuries of theology. The real first christians were thinking that

Jesus would soon be back, so there is some eschatological aspect by

identifying with them. This ideology was changed by the church

convention of Nikea in the year 325, when a resolution stated that

heaven is not of this world, but of the next.

But of course, as suggested in a mail on this list. It could be some

kind of calvinist belief, as the calvinist thinks everything is

predetermined (otherwise God wouldn't be almighty). This means, that if

your stocks are rising in Wall Street, God is on your side, and if you

are poor and sick, than you are bound for eternal hell. Your future

destiny will show in your life.

On the other hand the members of the Oxford Group Movement thought they

were doing God's job on earth. So instead of asking what God could do

for them, they asked God what they could do for him. This is not

calvinist thinking! Or is it?

I have also noticed that american protestant churches are often using

the words papism and judaism, which goes well with the notion that Jesus

was one of the good guys, and that he was unjustly crucified. In Denmark

he was making a necessary sacrifice and there is no way to become like

him. He's not one of the good guys, he's a part of God.

I have also been reading about the struggle between the Oxford Group

Movement and the danish church. In the 30's they heavily attacked our

luther-evangelian church, and the church answered back (N.H. Søe and

Knud Hansen in 1936) that this movement would end where the german

church had ended (complying with nazi ideology).

One of the central dogmas in lutheran-evangelian theology is that you

can't save your own soul by making good deeds. That's (according to

Luther) disgusting in the eyes of God. The only way is to believe in the

sacrifice of Jesus - on the cross. End of scapegoating!

In the books I have been reading about the american Prohibition

Movement, I hardly found luther-evangelian churches mentioned, and in

Denmark the abstainers were weak where the church was strong - and vice

versa.

So even though we are talking about protestant churches, it seems that

they are not at all alike in their core dogmas. Of course we have a

state church in Denmark, written into the Constitution, so they don't

have to produce miracles for getting money.

Therefore there is some kind of deep rooted resistance to AA and clones.

Well, just some thoughts in Easter time.

And Apple, could you repost your mail about sentiments an other good

stuff to me. I really liked it, but as I'm on 'digest', I deleted to

much.

Bjørn

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