Guest guest Posted February 12, 1999 Report Share Posted February 12, 1999 > Here's a question you might like to consider- why do Al-Anons go to > meetings for years? Same reasons AA's do; both consciously and unconsciously. They have a chronic, progressive and incurable disease - and also become dependent on their sect. I remember hearing one woman in AL-Anon saying that when her divorce came thru she guessed she wasnt allowed to go anymore; she seemed worried abt it. I had asked to go basically to use it as " O-Anon " - as my parents were overeaters. I didnt care abt them overeating so much, but I cared abt them being totally bonkers, especially with me. All but one guy wanted me there, but I left anyway ( he reckoned it would 'disunite' them if his objection was ignored). They were mighty pleased when I showed up again later, having remembered a friend I could claim was a " dry drunk " . The objector wasnt there, and the others were very certain they wanted me there. Interestingly, the AL-Anon jingle is not " I'm powerless over alcohol " but " I'm a grateful member of Al-Anon " . P. Pete ---------------------- My Childhood sent me Lemons - So I made Limerance PERSONALITY-DISORDERS SUPPORT/INFO LIST: http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 In a message dated 2/17/99 6:27:46 PM Central Standard Time, joe- b@... writes: << Al-Anon has the same program as AA. The Al-Anon philosophy is AA philosophy taken to its next logical developmental step- ie all the responsibility-shrugging and self-blaming >> Actually, I thought they were about realizing that the problems are NOT their fault. One of their slogans is " I didn't cause it. " The al-anons that I've known learned to set boundaries, assert themselves, etc. Seems healthier than AA in some ways. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 At 11:50 PM 2/17/99 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Dave >From my limited experience of AL-Anon its exactly the same deal (the Steps are >IDENTICAL in every way). They even talk of having a " disease " too - presumably >an addiction to alcoholics. that's certainly the take the rehabs have, who also >claim it is genetic too. >Pete > > >> Im curious, can someone here explain to about Alanon, what their belief >> system is, how are simialar or diffrent to A.A.? What do they tell thier >> memebers do to in regards to friends or family who are alcoholics? Do >> they use sponsors same way A.A. does? Is thier message one of powerless >> and turning over of will? have any of you had direect experince at one >> of their meetings? >> -Dave Al-Anon is unbelievable. They have a whole program about not getting the hell away from a drunk, but putting up with it and working on themselves instead. Al-Anon has the same program as AA. The Al-Anon philosophy is AA philosophy taken to its next logical developmental step- ie all the responsibility-shrugging and self-blaming (you wouldn't think those two go together, but they do) and mythological disease nonsense but applied to someone who has (or has had) an " alcoholic " in their life. So not only is the " alcoholic " said to be powerless over alcohol, now also miraculously this innocent other person is supposed to be powerless over alcohol too, although of course this isn't the alcohol that they themselves may drink we're talking about- they are powerless over the other guy's alcohol! And the same remedies are applied- seeing one's own part, making amends, etc. So if you are living with a drunk and abusive man, well, take your own inventory dammit. And get to a meeting. Now if that isn't perverted, I'm an astronaut. Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 I used to live literally just round the corner from Al-Anon's UK office- their " GSO " I suppose. I once had occasion to visit their office to pick up a copy of one of their books- this was during my " eclectic " phase. Inside was a large hall with many desks. At each desk was an almost identical grey-haired woman in her sixties or therabouts. Those with who I made eye contact had a purposeful gleam in their eyes which I would identify as the Gleam of Service. I remember this from Doing Service when I was " active " in NA. My recollection is that every single woman, and I there were several of them, wore a floral print dress. Maybe it was only a majority rather than all of them wearing them though- but it gives an overall feel for the thing I think. Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 At 11:50 PM 2/17/99 +0000, Pete Watts wrote: >Hi Dave > >From my limited experience of AL-Anon its exactly the same deal (the Steps are >IDENTICAL in every way). Step 1 (through 11) is identical, and the justification for 'powerless over alcohol' is that the alcoholic is powerless over alcohol, and the Al-Anon member is powerless over the alcoholic. Step 12, instead of " we tried to carry this message to alcoholics " Al-Anon says " we tried to carry this message to others. " It's fairly open-ended as far as membership. If I recall, Nan on's book " Getting Better " talks about how since each alcoholic directly affects the lives of (something like) seven others, Al-Anon has a potential membership of circa 70 million. While AA is about 50-50 male-female, Al-Anon is 90-95% female, mostly wives of alcoholics. > They even talk of having a " disease " too - presumably >an addiction to alcoholics. that's certainly the take the rehabs have, who also >claim it is genetic too. > >Pete And they are very anal-retentive about using only Al-Anon Conference- Approved Literature in their meetings. When I was going, about eight years ago, there was even some semi-official edict against using psychological/ medical language in meetings - this was specifically aimed at eliminating the word 'codependency', which some people, especially those who also attended CoDA, liked to use. Perhaps THE big slogan in Al-Anon is 'detach with love', and the detaching is emotional. There's much that could be written about it, and I don't think I could give it justice offhand. Maybe later if someone wants to know, and if someone else doesn't jump in to volunteer. ----- http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley/seasons_greetings.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 Joe, Very well said. The librarian just gave me a funny look because I broke out into a laugh. Tommy >From 12-step-free-return-2079-tgperkins=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Wed Feb 17 16:27:41 1999 >Received: from [127.0.0.1] by md. with NNFMP; 18 Feb 1999 00:26:05 -0000 >Mailing-List: contact 12-step-free-owneregroups >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-12-step-freeegroups >Received: (qmail 22966 invoked by uid 7770); 18 Feb 1999 00:26:55 -0000 >Received: from mailhost.dircon.co.uk (194.112.32.65) > by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 1999 00:26:55 -0000 >Received: from hqgrnhba (bh-cw33-121.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.61.121]) > by mailhost.dircon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA09017 > for <12-step-freeegroups>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:26:40 GMT >Message-Id: >X-Sender: joe-b@... >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:24:12 +0000 >To: 12-step-freeegroups > >In-Reply-To: >References: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: Alanon >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >At 11:50 PM 2/17/99 +0000, you wrote: >>Hi Dave >>From my limited experience of AL-Anon its exactly the same deal (the Steps >are >>IDENTICAL in every way). They even talk of having a " disease " too - >presumably >>an addiction to alcoholics. that's certainly the take the rehabs have, who >also >>claim it is genetic too. >>Pete >> >> >>> Im curious, can someone here explain to about Alanon, what their belief >>> system is, how are simialar or diffrent to A.A.? What do they tell thier >>> memebers do to in regards to friends or family who are alcoholics? Do >>> they use sponsors same way A.A. does? Is thier message one of powerless >>> and turning over of will? have any of you had direect experince at one >>> of their meetings? >>> -Dave > >Al-Anon is unbelievable. They have a whole program about not getting the >hell away from a drunk, but putting up with it and working on themselves >instead. >Al-Anon has the same program as AA. The Al-Anon philosophy is AA philosophy >taken to its next logical developmental step- ie all the >responsibility-shrugging and self-blaming (you wouldn't think those two go >together, but they do) and mythological disease nonsense but applied to >someone who has (or has had) an " alcoholic " in their life. So not only is >the " alcoholic " said to be powerless over alcohol, now also miraculously >this innocent other person is supposed to be powerless over alcohol too, >although of course this isn't the alcohol that they themselves may drink >we're talking about- they are powerless over the other guy's alcohol! And >the same remedies are applied- seeing one's own part, making amends, etc. >So if you are living with a drunk and abusive man, well, take your own >inventory dammit. And get to a meeting. Now if that isn't perverted, I'm an >astronaut. > >Joe Berenbaum > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Recipes, relationships. Horoscopes, health. >Fashion, fitness. If it's about women, it's at HomeArts.com. >http://offers./click/212/0 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 At 12:05 AM 2/18/99 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/17/99 6:27:46 PM Central Standard Time, joe- >b@... writes: > ><< Al-Anon has the same program as AA. The Al-Anon philosophy is AA philosophy > taken to its next logical developmental step- ie all the > responsibility-shrugging and self-blaming >> > >Actually, I thought they were about realizing that the problems are NOT their >fault. One of their slogans is " I didn't cause it. " The al-anons that I've >known learned to set boundaries, assert themselves, etc. Seems healthier than >AA in some ways. Here's a question you might like to consider- why do Al-Anons go to meetings for years? Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 1999 Report Share Posted February 18, 1999 Yes, and can we have some reference material to go with that? Hmm, sounds like a hamburger order but if you do have anything then please. Thanks, Carol At 06:41 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Im curious, can someone here explain to about Alanon, what their belief >system is, how are simialar or diffrent to A.A.? What do they tell thier >memebers do to in regards to friends or family who are alcoholics? Do >they use sponsors same way A.A. does? Is thier message one of powerless >and turning over of will? have any of you had direect experince at one >of their meetings? >-Dave > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Searching for the man of your dreams? >The job of your dreams? Stop dreaming >and go to HomeArts.com for horoscopes, >LoveScopes or CareerScopes. http://offers./click/212/1 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 1999 Report Share Posted February 18, 1999 Oooo, eeiry! It reminds me of Naked Lunch-surreal. Carol At 12:41 AM 2/18/99 +0000, you wrote: >I used to live literally just round the corner from Al-Anon's UK office- >their " GSO " I suppose. I once had occasion to visit their office to pick up >a copy of one of their books- this was during my " eclectic " phase. Inside >was a large hall with many desks. At each desk was an almost identical >grey-haired woman in her sixties or therabouts. Those with who I made eye >contact had a purposeful gleam in their eyes which I would identify as the >Gleam of Service. I remember this from Doing Service when I was " active " in >NA. My recollection is that every single woman, and I there were several of >them, wore a floral print dress. Maybe it was only a majority rather than >all of them wearing them though- but it gives an overall feel for the thing >I think. > >Joe Berenbaum > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Recipes, relationships. Horoscopes, health. >Fashion, fitness. If it's about women, it's at HomeArts.com. >http://offers./click/212/0 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 1999 Report Share Posted February 18, 1999 I went to a few and I only heard what I wanted to hear but what I remember is that I was told I was powerless over the " alcoholic " I did not cause them to drink and I couldn't stop them from drinking. That sounded good to me because I was tired so I started having a life of my own, when the car was parked in the middle of the yard I told my neighbors 'yea he was out drinking again' when he couldn't go to work I didn't call in for him and basically life went on around him and without him. . .eventually he left, by then the kids and I didn't even notice. But important note: drinking was just a small part of his problem. . . he is still a bastard 'sober' and 'born again' ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 1999 Report Share Posted February 18, 1999 That explains all those flowered dresses I don't remember buying. . . must be a Stepford Wife thing. . . I am glad I didn't stay in those rooms too long ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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