Guest guest Posted February 8, 1999 Report Share Posted February 8, 1999 At 03:14 PM 2/8/99 -0500, you wrote: <snip> > My company is offering an out-of-court settlement on my federal >suit in which they will agree to never force anyone into a 12-step >program again in exchange for my dropping any and all present and future >legal and professional complaints against Mr. R.F. " Creep " , the EAP >manager. It's really hard for me to feel thrilled about this, though my >attorney calls it " a great victory for the Constitution. " The idea of >The Creep emerging unscathed and ready to force other people into 9 >months of phony " treatment " for a nonexistent " disease " (as long as the >mandated " self-help " meetings aren't AA) is sickening. Oh well, I guess >I should try to work on " an attitude of gratitude " as the steppers say. >I have my job, my co-workers are behind me, and in 7 years I can retire >and get the hell out of this lunatic company. >~Rita Is this a good result? The inclusion of thwe word " future " bothers me. I wonder if this doesn't leave the door open for this EAP person to behave badly/unprofessionally/illegally towards you in the future in some way and to do so without the risk risk of any action being taken by you, since you would presumably be bound by this agreement regardless of what he does in future. Joe Berenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 1999 Report Share Posted February 8, 1999 Hi, Rita, It is a good sign that your company wants to settle, but there are a couple things that I see as red flags. " Future " complaints: I hope the language is a lot tighter than this. Retaliatory moves should be excepted, also complaints that are not the subject of your current lawsuit. What if he breaks your jaw? Will you be allowed to complain? Against him personally for medical expense and pain and suffering? To the police for the assault? To his licensing board (whatever that may be) for unethical behavior? Not " forcing anyone into 12-step treatment " : Who will monitor this? How will anyone be sure that they are not? They have a contract with their present 12-step provider; is that provider a party to the lawsuit? If not, isn't the contract still valid? Are they required to contract with the lowest bidder? What if, in future, the lowest bidder is a 12-step provider? I have gotten the impression that your employer is a state agency, tho I may be wrong, but if I am right, note that state agencies are bound by numerous federal and state regulations regarding procurement, which your lawsuit probably cannot affect. As to this issue, too, note that most treatment providers will insist they are not 12-step programs, and AA will insist they have no affiliation with treatment programs (because they " have no opinion on outside issues " ). Somehow treatment providers and AA have gotten people to buy into this notion for years. This is a huge loophole, and permits the treatment provider to continue to promote AA and the 12-steps while your employer can state that they are not forcing anyone to participate in a 12-step program. Perhaps you and your lawyer have thought of all these things, and probably the settlement language is tighter than your letter suggests. But even then -- what about monetary damages for you? Surely you deserve more than a change of behavior on your employer's part, which you probably will not even be able to verify. I don't know how far you have progressed into the lawsuit, whether it is only at the complaint stage, whether there have been motions to dismiss and if so, whether those motions were denied, whether there has been discovery and if so, how much, and so forth. If your employer wants to settle, however, you have the upper hand, so wring them out. This is not a stone you are bleeding, it is a living, breathing, human institution. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > Good to hear from you, Tommy. That's great news about your appeal! >Maybe you can give the ACLU another call? You never know with them. > > , of vs. Coughlin, also had no resources. >Interestingly, although he was an avowed atheist and had no connection >to Judaism, an Amicus Curiae brief was filed for him by the American >Jewish Congress. Are you familiar with the case? >http://www.law.cornell.edu/ny/ctap/l96_0137.htm > > My company is offering an out-of-court settlement on my federal >suit in which they will agree to never force anyone into a 12-step >program again in exchange for my dropping any and all present and future >legal and professional complaints against Mr. R.F. " Creep " , the EAP >manager. It's really hard for me to feel thrilled about this, though my >attorney calls it " a great victory for the Constitution. " The idea of >The Creep emerging unscathed and ready to force other people into 9 >months of phony " treatment " for a nonexistent " disease " (as long as the >mandated " self-help " meetings aren't AA) is sickening. Oh well, I guess >I should try to work on " an attitude of gratitude " as the steppers say. >I have my job, my co-workers are behind me, and in 7 years I can retire >and get the hell out of this lunatic company. > > Fight for your pension, Tommy, you earned it. I'm behind you 100%! > >~Rita > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >One Day Science Will Create A Natural Solution For Hairloss >That day is today. HairGenesis. The world’s first naturally >derived and proven treatment for Male Pattern Hairloss. >Click Here: http://offers./click/217/0 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 1999 Report Share Posted February 9, 1999 Do they get a pre formatted diagnosis and evaluation prepared for them at some class? Your evaluation is almost identical to the one we obtained after numerous letters and finally having to cite the FOIA and forward a copy of our request to the State Commission. How can everyone be that diseased and not even notice? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 1999 Report Share Posted February 9, 1999 wrote: Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=2078 > Feedback anyone? I managed to obtain a copy of the 12 page " intake > interview " (compiled after only an hour by a nurse!) and it pretty > much enraged me and caused me to quit the program immediately. This > is what I'm planning on sending them. I only wish that it could > solve/change my permanent medical history. It's situations such as > this that have caused me to eliminate therapy from my life altogether > even though I've *many* abuse issues still unresolved. > > Thanks for reading it (if you do!), Good letter. If everyone caught up in the 12-step Insquisition wrote to Medi-care, exposing the fraud, they'd whither up for lack of funds. Think of the money that can be made for re-training all these phony rehab counselors. For that matter, can you imagine the demand for therapists who guarantee: No 12-step Inquisition? " Why aren't there more of them? As it is, you practically can't let them know you ever drank! http://www.zinezone.com/users/fransway > banshee > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 1999 Report Share Posted February 12, 1999 Here, here. The powerlessness is one of many things my husband and I find wrong with the AA thinking. A powerless society will follow into doom. Plus, even the longest AA lifer's simply unhappy " dry drunks " (please forgive the expression.) I am a wife of an alcoholic, who is totally outraged at the philosophies of both AA & Alanon. Their plan is dark, impossible, and destroys families. I joined this list to find out what others are saying. So far this is very interesting. Joy >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups > >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:16:05 -0600 >Subject: Re: a complaint letter/ any thoughts? > >Isn't the problem, , that the large corporations and the government >actively and consciously promote AA and the 12-Step method? Remember Betty >Ford? Most people who have alcohol and drug related problems might indeed >actually prefer a different kind of assistance. But if the corporations >and the government strongly desire that " addictions " be addressed via the >12-step method, the 12-step method I am afraid it is going to be. There is >a constituency out there which favors 12-step treatment for " addiction " >problems. But the most important part of that constituency is not drawn >from the population which receives the treatment. Gerald Ford, and other >Republican leaders, really pull the strings; Betty Ford is just an >innocuous figurehead. 12-step therapy is all about what some people, >mostly in powerful positions, want to do to other people, who are mostly > " powerless. " And the goal of this " treatment " is to make their > " powerlessness " complete.. > >---------- >> From: fransway29@... >> To: 12-step-freeegroups >> Subject: Re: a complaint letter/ any thoughts? >> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:08 PM >> >> wrote: >> Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=2078 >> > Feedback anyone? I managed to obtain a copy of the 12 page " intake >> > interview " (compiled after only an hour by a nurse!) and it pretty >> > much enraged me and caused me to quit the program immediately. This >> > is what I'm planning on sending them. I only wish that it could >> > solve/change my permanent medical history. It's situations such as >> > this that have caused me to eliminate therapy from my life altogether >> > even though I've *many* abuse issues still unresolved. >> > >> > Thanks for reading it (if you do!), >> >> Good letter. If everyone caught up in the 12-step Insquisition wrote to >> Medi-care, exposing the fraud, they'd whither up for lack of funds. >> >> Think of the money that can be made for >> re-training all these phony rehab counselors. For that matter, can you >> imagine the demand for therapists who guarantee: No 12-step Inquisition? " >> Why aren't there more of them? As it is, you practically can't let them >> know you ever drank! >> >> >> >> http://www.zinezone.com/users/fransway >> > banshee >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> One Day Science Will Create A Natural Solution For Hairloss >> That day is today. HairGenesis. The world’s first naturally >> derived and proven treatment for Male Pattern Hairloss. >> Click Here: http://offers./click/217/0 >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 Welcome. . . in my husband's mandatory " alcohol abuse counseling sessions " the counselor was actually encouraging the men to leave their marriages if the wives would not join ALANON and take on their belief system. . " nothing should threaten your sobriety " and they tried to convince them that their wives actually wanted them to be alcoholic so they could be in control . . . it was very sick but in reality I would rather have a husband that drinks than a warped glassy eyed AA drone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 In a message dated 2/12/99 9:22:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, joy1959@... writes: > > totally outraged at the philosophies of both AA & Alanon. Their plan is > dark, impossible, and destroys families. Amen! Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 In a message dated 2/14/99 7:52:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, MARDINOYES@... writes: > it was > very sick but in reality I would rather have a husband that drinks than a > warped glassy eyed AA drone. Amen to that one, too. You either love the guy, or you don't. In my case, I do. It's just that simple. Henders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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