Re: on WOD: [was Winners use drugs too says DEA]

November 25, 1998

Pete - the linguist Noam Chomsky makes a good point when he talks about

" self censureship. " He argues that most of us are trained to very

carefully contain our thinking within " the boundaries of thinkable

thought. " Thus, obvious and important truths and warnings get ignored -

how else, after all, can you explain the rise of Nazism and the holocaust

in Europe's most civilized nation, and fascism's success in most of the

rest of that continent? (And does not the fascist past, and imminent

fascist future, make you doubt the " superiority " of Western culture?)

Today, important and obvious truths are also being ignored. One of the

dangers of liberal scholarship is that it helps to draw the " boundaries of

thinkable thought " - " This far, but NO FURTHER! " And yet the evidence is

so compelling. One truly must self-censure not to see it. There is an

advantage to having had a troubled period in life, in being, in one way or

another, a " deviant. " An outsider, I think, has an opportunity to look on

the everyday with fresh eyes. (Of course, once outside the pale, persons

can also go dreadfully wrong.) As to Bufe, I only know the book, which I

see as serving a limiting function, and hence as inadequate.

----------

>

> To: PAULDIENER

> Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> Subject: on WOD: [was " Winners " use drugs too says

DEA]

> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:08 PM

>

> Hi

>

> I cant make my mind up abt this issue. It seems

> unanswerable I guess. What does concern me is that both

> very right-wing and very-left wing ppl are usually anti-WoD

> - when the extreme left and extreme right agree on

> something, I wonder if it's a bad idea!

>

> Re censorship, it's not censorship to ask for prudence in

> public communiucations that can be distorted, often

> unintentionally. If you have a speculation of a sensitive

> about me, then you could post me privately.

>

> AS for " fascist AA " I do thinks that OTT. Radical

> Conservative yes, but not fascist. Of course, it can be

> *promoted* by fascists and may benefit fascists too, but it

> aint the same thing.

>

> I distance myself from your comments on Chaz - I think your

> allegations of him are unfounded. I wouldn't be here if it

> weren't for Chaz, as it was thru his book that I broke away

> from XA after being recommended it by a fellow skeptical

> XA.

>

> Ironically, probably my only criticism of his book is that

> I expect what are his left-wing anarchist views are too

> prominent in it. This isnt relevant to most readers, even

> those of the left, and weakens the book.

>

> Altho it is essential to consider social factors in

> addiction, there is nothing realistically a support group

> for those in the grip of the illness can do to change

> society. In many respects western society, especilly

> european, is vastly preferable to anything on offer

> anywhere else in the world.

>

> The dispossessed (as many addicts are) have no influence,

> and hence perhaps have to have a right-wing anarchist

> philosophy to survive, at least in the short term.

>

> The evil thing abt XA is making ppl like it.

>

> Pete

>

> On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:37:55 -0600 E Diener

> wrote:

>

> > Pete - no reference to you here, but my OWN position is that people

should

> > be allowed to use whatever drug they wish, without having little

Hitlers

> > breaking in the front door. Hardly a radical policy. Even Milton

Freidman

> > and Szasz hold that view. And, by the way, remember that harm

does

> > not correlated with licit or illicit. Cigarettes are, by far, the

world's

> > biggest killer drug. Lethal reactions to misused and misprescribed

> > prescription drugs run into the hundreds of thousands each year in the

US,

> > by medical establishment estimate. Drugs can be powerful and

dangerous,

> > and folks need to take control and proceed with caution. Regarding

> > censoring what we say because there are idiots out there - do you

really

> > want to do that?

> >

> > ----------

> > >

> > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > Subject: Re: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 5:07 PM

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > Rest assured, I am NOT doing illicit drugs, nor will not.

> > >

> > > Thankyou for your kind coments, but I have a caveat.

> > >

> > > We have seen on addict-l that at least one stepper from

> > > there has joined this list, and my " propane "

> > > joke, out of context, has got blown up <g> out of all

> > > proportion. hence, please be careful abt expressing

> > > concerns like that I might be using illicit drugs on this

> > > list - the way rumor breeds like botulism in this medium,

> > > it could be a start of everyone deciding I am an active

> > > substance abuser. Rememberm the original report is itself a

> > > hoax, but I believed it!

> > >

> > > Pete

> > >

> > > On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:06:58 -0600 E Diener

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Pete - remember, pearls grow out of TROUBLED oysters. Embrace your

> > > > problems, but make them produce for you. Hell, I would rather be

> > Tennessee

> > > > , and a genius, than some clerk happily trudging along the

> > > > corporate hallways. If, to be productive and creative, you are

better

> > off

> > > > abstaining, then just abstain. No big deal. One thing I do worry

> > about

> > > > with you, though, is that you may be using licit psychotropics

without

> > > > doing all the research required. I support your right to run your

own

> > > > life. However, merely in a friendly and concerned way, I would

advise

> > you

> > > > to make sure you get all the info possible about ANY drug you

choose to

> > > > use, and then make sure that use is responsible and beneficial.

> > > > Unfortunately, the drug companies and the medical establishment are

run

> > by

> > > > piranhas, who don't have your best interest at heart. You need to

take

> > > > good care of yourself. And don't worry so much about being

eccentric.

> > > > Just make it pay. Be creative. Think free. Best regards

----------

> > > > >

> > > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > > Cc: Ken R ; 12-step-free

> > <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:50 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi

> > > > >

> > > > > This jives with something I saw on addict-l I think. there

> > > > > is evidence that some abused kids end up very anxious and

> > > > > are scared still of drugs so never touch them - but may

> > > > > have eating disorders and do poorly because of the abuse

> > > > > effects. Sadly, this fits me to a T; I was always terrified

> > > > > of addiction to almost anything, including gambling, but

> > > > > overdrank when younger and have weight problems.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pete

> > > > >

> > > > > On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:21:02 -0600 E Diener

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Big body of research on this topic already exists. Consensus:

> > > > abstainers

> > > > > > tend to be " up tight " types, less successful in college, etc

> > (measured

> > > > by

> > > > > > GPA, usually). Heavy dopers/drinkers tend to be disturbed, do

even

> > > > more

> > > > > > poorly. Moderate users of alcohol, marijuana (two substances

most

> > > > studies

> > > > > > focus upon), always show up best. Usual interpretation: people

who

> > are

> > > > > > curious and experimental with drugs and alcohol, but use

> > moderation,

> > > > > > usually are also curious and expereimental and moderate in

other

> > areas,

> > > > and

> > > > > > these traits lead to success. Anyone want references, contact

me.

> > > > > > ----------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To: 12-step-freeegroups

> > > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > > > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:02 PM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello everyone,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is an article that was posted on addict-l that you might

> > find

> > > > > > > interesting. Makes me wonder if they will ever look within

the

> > person

> > > > to

> > > > > > > explain excessive drug use rather than in the drug.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ken Ragge

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Subject: MN: DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with

drugs

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:47:34 -0700

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lines: 74

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sender: newsadmin@...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Status: U

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Newshawk: Kim Greenwood

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pubdate: Sat, 20 Sep 1997

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with drugs

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > WASHINGTON, DC--In a surprise announcement with

wide-ranging

> > > > > > > > implications for U.S. narcotics policy, Drug Enforcement

> > > > Administration

> > > > > > > > director Constantine acknowledged Monday that some

> > winners

> > > > " may

> > > > > > > > occasionally " use drugs.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Apparently, " said Constantine, addressing reporters at

Justice

> > > > > > > > Department headquarters, " contrary to the DEA's

long-standing

> > > > > > > > conviction, drug use may not be limited solely to the

domain of

> > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > It appears that some successful Americans have experimented

> > with

> > > > > > > > illegal narcotics, as well. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The announcement was the result of a comprehensive

three-year

> > DEA

> > > > study

> > > > > > > > of more than 40,000 U.S. winners, including thousands of

> > successful

> > > > > > > > business executives, doctors, lawyers, scientists and civic

> > > > leaders.

> > > > > > > > The study, originally designed by the DEA to help shed

light on

> > the

> > > > > > > > qualities shared by winners that make them resistant to

drugs,

> > > > instead

> > > > > > > > revealed that over 71 percent of winners had at one time or

> > another

> > > > > > > > experimented with controlled substances.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Constantine said that it remains unclear why winners, who

enjoy

> > > > > > > > successful, productive careers and feelings of love and

> > acceptance

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > their families, would choose to engage in drug use.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Time and time again, DEA tests have shown that no feeling

you

> > > > could

> > > > > > > > get from drugs could be better than the great feeling you

get

> > from

> > > > > > > > being a winner, " Constantine said. " Why a heart surgeon, an

> > > > architect

> > > > > > > > or a straight-A student would use drugs when his senses are

> > already

> > > > > > > > enormously heightened by the 'high' that comes from being a

> > winner

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > beyond me. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Making drug use by winners all the more puzzling,

Constantine

> > said,

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > the fact that winners are more than strong enough to resist

the

> > > > peer

> > > > > > > > pressure associated with drug use, do not need to get high

to

> > > > escape

> > > > > > > > from a terrible life, and do not associate with the sort of

> > people

> > > > most

> > > > > > > > likely to use drugs--namely, losers.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DEA scientists said it also remains unclear how drug-using

> > winners

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > managed to avoid addiction and the many well-known

destructive

> > > > > > > > side-effects of controlled substances.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Winners seem to have an unknown quality that enables them

to

> > use

> > > > drugs

> > > > > > > > and keep on winning, " DEA head researcher and narcotics

expert

> > > >

> > > > > > > > Tobin said. " It goes against everything we know about

drugs,

> > but

> > > > many

> > > > > > > > of the drug-taking winners we studied did not, in fact,

become

> > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > They did not lose control of their lives, nor did they lose

> > their

> > > > loved

> > > > > > > > ones, their jobs, their homes, or their physical or mental

> > > > well-being.

> > > > > > > > There is clearly something at work here that we still do

not

> > > > > > > > understand. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tobin cited the five-time Super Bowl champion Dallas

Cowboys as

> > a

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > example of winners who achieved greatness while engaging in

> > > > frequent

> > > > > > > > recreational drug use.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " In 1993 and 1994, the Cowboys clearly were winners,

trouncing

> > the

> > > > > > > > Buffalo Bills--a team with no drug-users on its roster,

mind

> > > > you--in

> > > > > > > > two straight Super Bowls by a combined score of 82 to 30, "

> > Tobin

> > > > said.

> > > > > > > > " It's puzzling, to say the least. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > One winner, Cupertino, CA, neurosurgeon el, a

> > devoted

> > > > > > > > family man and casual marijuana smoker, said that the DEA

> > should

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > necessarily be surprised. " I find that a little pot every

now

> > and

> > > > then

> > > > > > > > really helps me relax, " he said. " When you consider that

> > marijuana

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > less addictive and less harmful than both nicotine and

alcohol,

> > it

> > > > > > > > shouldn't be all that surprising that I, like so many of my

> > > > esteemed

> > > > > > > > and accomplished colleagues, choose to smoke up

occasionally. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As a result of the study, the DEA has been forced to change

> > many of

> > > > its

> > > > > > > > anti-drug awareness campaigns. On Tuesday, the agency

ordered

> > the

> > > > > > > > recall of more than 150,000 U.S. video arcade games

displaying

> > > > > > > > anti-drug messages, including 27,000 Mortal Kombat II and

> > N.A.R.C.

> > > > > > > > units, which will be reprogrammed with an altered on-screen

> > message

> > > > > > > > from former FBI director Sessions, " Very Few

Winners

> > Use

> > > > > > > > Drugs. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ********

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > IN DEA terms 71% = " Very Few "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > Don't lose your email when you move, change jobs, or switch

> > ISP's.

> > > > > > > Click here to get free and permanent email from NET@DDRESS!

> > > > > > > http://ads./click/156/0

> > > > > > >

November 25, 1998

The reason both the left and right oppose the war on drugs is because it is

fascist (big corporations and big government united in ruthless repression

in a time of crisis). You really would profit greatly by reading some of

the history of fascism, especially dealing with medicine as repression and

the treatment of " deviants " (including problem drinkers and drug users).

In Europe during the fascist period, the traditional right (the

" libertarian " types) were anti-nazi, and so, of course, was the left. The

pattern repeats itself with opposition to the war on drugs. Take a look at

R. 's DRUG WARRIORS AND THEIR PREY: FROM POLICE POWER TO POLICE

STATE, 1996. Tons of evidence in this very good book, and the fascist

connection is made explicitly. Consider, just for an example, " In 1985 the

US Supreme Court ruled that government agents have authority to hold a

person incommunicado without access to family or legal advice until the

person obeys the agents' order to defecate into a waste basket while they

watch, so the feces may be examined for evidence of drug law violation.

This authority exists without agents having to show probable cause for

suspecting a violation. " Does anyone really deny that this is the stuff of

fascist madness? And, of course, the drug war has come a long, long way

since 1985. And it still has a very long way to go.-----

>

> To: PAULDIENER

> Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> Subject: on WOD: [was " Winners " use drugs too says DEA]

> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:08 PM

>

> Hi

>

> I cant make my mind up abt this issue. It seems

> unanswerable I guess. What does concern me is that both

> very right-wing and very-left wing ppl are usually anti-WoD

> - when the extreme left and extreme right agree on

> something, I wonder if it's a bad idea!

>

> Re censorship, it's not censorship to ask for prudence in

> public communiucations that can be distorted, often

> unintentionally. If you have a speculation of a sensitive

> about me, then you could post me privately.

>

> AS for " fascist AA " I do thinks that OTT. Radical

> Conservative yes, but not fascist. Of course, it can be

> *promoted* by fascists and may benefit fascists too, but it

> aint the same thing.

>

> I distance myself from your comments on Chaz - I think your

> allegations of him are unfounded. I wouldn't be here if it

> weren't for Chaz, as it was thru his book that I broke away

> from XA after being recommended it by a fellow skeptical

> XA.

>

> Ironically, probably my only criticism of his book is that

> I expect what are his left-wing anarchist views are too

> prominent in it. This isnt relevant to most readers, even

> those of the left, and weakens the book.

>

> Altho it is essential to consider social factors in

> addiction, there is nothing realistically a support group

> for those in the grip of the illness can do to change

> society. In many respects western society, especilly

> european, is vastly preferable to anything on offer

> anywhere else in the world.

>

> The dispossessed (as many addicts are) have no influence,

> and hence perhaps have to have a right-wing anarchist

> philosophy to survive, at least in the short term.

>

> The evil thing abt XA is making ppl like it.

>

> Pete

>

> On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:37:55 -0600 E Diener

> wrote:

>

> > Pete - no reference to you here, but my OWN position is that people

should

> > be allowed to use whatever drug they wish, without having little

Hitlers

> > breaking in the front door. Hardly a radical policy. Even Milton

Freidman

> > and Szasz hold that view. And, by the way, remember that harm

does

> > not correlated with licit or illicit. Cigarettes are, by far, the

world's

> > biggest killer drug. Lethal reactions to misused and misprescribed

> > prescription drugs run into the hundreds of thousands each year in the

US,

> > by medical establishment estimate. Drugs can be powerful and

dangerous,

> > and folks need to take control and proceed with caution. Regarding

> > censoring what we say because there are idiots out there - do you

really

> > want to do that?

> >

> > ----------

> > >

> > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > Subject: Re: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 5:07 PM

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > Rest assured, I am NOT doing illicit drugs, nor will not.

> > >

> > > Thankyou for your kind coments, but I have a caveat.

> > >

> > > We have seen on addict-l that at least one stepper from

> > > there has joined this list, and my " propane "

> > > joke, out of context, has got blown up <g> out of all

> > > proportion. hence, please be careful abt expressing

> > > concerns like that I might be using illicit drugs on this

> > > list - the way rumor breeds like botulism in this medium,

> > > it could be a start of everyone deciding I am an active

> > > substance abuser. Rememberm the original report is itself a

> > > hoax, but I believed it!

> > >

> > > Pete

> > >

> > > On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:06:58 -0600 E Diener

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Pete - remember, pearls grow out of TROUBLED oysters. Embrace your

> > > > problems, but make them produce for you. Hell, I would rather be

> > Tennessee

> > > > , and a genius, than some clerk happily trudging along the

> > > > corporate hallways. If, to be productive and creative, you are

better

> > off

> > > > abstaining, then just abstain. No big deal. One thing I do worry

> > about

> > > > with you, though, is that you may be using licit psychotropics

without

> > > > doing all the research required. I support your right to run your

own

> > > > life. However, merely in a friendly and concerned way, I would

advise

> > you

> > > > to make sure you get all the info possible about ANY drug you

choose to

> > > > use, and then make sure that use is responsible and beneficial.

> > > > Unfortunately, the drug companies and the medical establishment are

run

> > by

> > > > piranhas, who don't have your best interest at heart. You need to

take

> > > > good care of yourself. And don't worry so much about being

eccentric.

> > > > Just make it pay. Be creative. Think free. Best regards

----------

> > > > >

> > > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > > Cc: Ken R ; 12-step-free

> > <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:50 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi

> > > > >

> > > > > This jives with something I saw on addict-l I think. there

> > > > > is evidence that some abused kids end up very anxious and

> > > > > are scared still of drugs so never touch them - but may

> > > > > have eating disorders and do poorly because of the abuse

> > > > > effects. Sadly, this fits me to a T; I was always terrified

> > > > > of addiction to almost anything, including gambling, but

> > > > > overdrank when younger and have weight problems.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pete

> > > > >

> > > > > On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:21:02 -0600 E Diener

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Big body of research on this topic already exists. Consensus:

> > > > abstainers

> > > > > > tend to be " up tight " types, less successful in college, etc

> > (measured

> > > > by

> > > > > > GPA, usually). Heavy dopers/drinkers tend to be disturbed, do

even

> > > > more

> > > > > > poorly. Moderate users of alcohol, marijuana (two substances

most

> > > > studies

> > > > > > focus upon), always show up best. Usual interpretation: people

who

> > are

> > > > > > curious and experimental with drugs and alcohol, but use

> > moderation,

> > > > > > usually are also curious and expereimental and moderate in

other

> > areas,

> > > > and

> > > > > > these traits lead to success. Anyone want references, contact

me.

> > > > > > ----------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To: 12-step-freeegroups

> > > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > > > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:02 PM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello everyone,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is an article that was posted on addict-l that you might

> > find

> > > > > > > interesting. Makes me wonder if they will ever look within

the

> > person

> > > > to

> > > > > > > explain excessive drug use rather than in the drug.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ken Ragge

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Subject: MN: DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with

drugs

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:47:34 -0700

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lines: 74

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sender: newsadmin@...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Status: U

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Newshawk: Kim Greenwood

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pubdate: Sat, 20 Sep 1997

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with drugs

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > WASHINGTON, DC--In a surprise announcement with

wide-ranging

> > > > > > > > implications for U.S. narcotics policy, Drug Enforcement

> > > > Administration

> > > > > > > > director Constantine acknowledged Monday that some

> > winners

> > > > " may

> > > > > > > > occasionally " use drugs.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Apparently, " said Constantine, addressing reporters at

Justice

> > > > > > > > Department headquarters, " contrary to the DEA's

long-standing

> > > > > > > > conviction, drug use may not be limited solely to the

domain of

> > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > It appears that some successful Americans have experimented

> > with

> > > > > > > > illegal narcotics, as well. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The announcement was the result of a comprehensive

three-year

> > DEA

> > > > study

> > > > > > > > of more than 40,000 U.S. winners, including thousands of

> > successful

> > > > > > > > business executives, doctors, lawyers, scientists and civic

> > > > leaders.

> > > > > > > > The study, originally designed by the DEA to help shed

light on

> > the

> > > > > > > > qualities shared by winners that make them resistant to

drugs,

> > > > instead

> > > > > > > > revealed that over 71 percent of winners had at one time or

> > another

> > > > > > > > experimented with controlled substances.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Constantine said that it remains unclear why winners, who

enjoy

> > > > > > > > successful, productive careers and feelings of love and

> > acceptance

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > their families, would choose to engage in drug use.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Time and time again, DEA tests have shown that no feeling

you

> > > > could

> > > > > > > > get from drugs could be better than the great feeling you

get

> > from

> > > > > > > > being a winner, " Constantine said. " Why a heart surgeon, an

> > > > architect

> > > > > > > > or a straight-A student would use drugs when his senses are

> > already

> > > > > > > > enormously heightened by the 'high' that comes from being a

> > winner

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > beyond me. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Making drug use by winners all the more puzzling,

Constantine

> > said,

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > the fact that winners are more than strong enough to resist

the

> > > > peer

> > > > > > > > pressure associated with drug use, do not need to get high

to

> > > > escape

> > > > > > > > from a terrible life, and do not associate with the sort of

> > people

> > > > most

> > > > > > > > likely to use drugs--namely, losers.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DEA scientists said it also remains unclear how drug-using

> > winners

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > managed to avoid addiction and the many well-known

destructive

> > > > > > > > side-effects of controlled substances.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " Winners seem to have an unknown quality that enables them

to

> > use

> > > > drugs

> > > > > > > > and keep on winning, " DEA head researcher and narcotics

expert

> > > >

> > > > > > > > Tobin said. " It goes against everything we know about

drugs,

> > but

> > > > many

> > > > > > > > of the drug-taking winners we studied did not, in fact,

become

> > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > They did not lose control of their lives, nor did they lose

> > their

> > > > loved

> > > > > > > > ones, their jobs, their homes, or their physical or mental

> > > > well-being.

> > > > > > > > There is clearly something at work here that we still do

not

> > > > > > > > understand. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tobin cited the five-time Super Bowl champion Dallas

Cowboys as

> > a

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > example of winners who achieved greatness while engaging in

> > > > frequent

> > > > > > > > recreational drug use.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " In 1993 and 1994, the Cowboys clearly were winners,

trouncing

> > the

> > > > > > > > Buffalo Bills--a team with no drug-users on its roster,

mind

> > > > you--in

> > > > > > > > two straight Super Bowls by a combined score of 82 to 30, "

> > Tobin

> > > > said.

> > > > > > > > " It's puzzling, to say the least. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > One winner, Cupertino, CA, neurosurgeon el, a

> > devoted

> > > > > > > > family man and casual marijuana smoker, said that the DEA

> > should

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > necessarily be surprised. " I find that a little pot every

now

> > and

> > > > then

> > > > > > > > really helps me relax, " he said. " When you consider that

> > marijuana

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > less addictive and less harmful than both nicotine and

alcohol,

> > it

> > > > > > > > shouldn't be all that surprising that I, like so many of my

> > > > esteemed

> > > > > > > > and accomplished colleagues, choose to smoke up

occasionally. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As a result of the study, the DEA has been forced to change

> > many of

> > > > its

> > > > > > > > anti-drug awareness campaigns. On Tuesday, the agency

ordered

> > the

> > > > > > > > recall of more than 150,000 U.S. video arcade games

displaying

> > > > > > > > anti-drug messages, including 27,000 Mortal Kombat II and

> > N.A.R.C.

> > > > > > > > units, which will be reprogrammed with an altered on-screen

> > message

> > > > > > > > from former FBI director Sessions, " Very Few

Winners

> > Use

> > > > > > > > Drugs. "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ********

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > IN DEA terms 71% = " Very Few "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > Don't lose your email when you move, change jobs, or switch

> > ISP's.

> > > > > > > Click here to get free and permanent email from NET@DDRESS!

> > > > > > > http://ads./click/156/0

> > > > > > >

November 26, 1998

- while being by no means blind to the injustices of western society,

I just see what is happening *at present* in the world as suggesting that

human rights are upheld more in the West than in other places.

Chomsky may be right that we self-censor (I presume that's what you mean,

rather than censure, though you might argue that censureship always

precedes censorship), but I dont see that as necessarily as a bad thing.

Self-censorship could provide resistance to 12-step or other cultism, by

refusing to countenace their silly ideas.

Pete

> Pete - the linguist Noam Chomsky makes a good point when he talks about

> " self censureship. " He argues that most of us are trained to very

> carefully contain our thinking within " the boundaries of thinkable

> thought. " Thus, obvious and important truths and warnings get ignored -

> how else, after all, can you explain the rise of Nazism and the holocaust

> in Europe's most civilized nation, and fascism's success in most of the

> rest of that continent? (And does not the fascist past, and imminent

> fascist future, make you doubt the " superiority " of Western culture?)

> Today, important and obvious truths are also being ignored. One of the

> dangers of liberal scholarship is that it helps to draw the " boundaries of

> thinkable thought " - " This far, but NO FURTHER! " And yet the evidence is

> so compelling. One truly must self-censure not to see it. There is an

> advantage to having had a troubled period in life, in being, in one way or

> another, a " deviant. " An outsider, I think, has an opportunity to look on

> the everyday with fresh eyes. (Of course, once outside the pale, persons

> can also go dreadfully wrong.) As to Bufe, I only know the book, which I

> see as serving a limiting function, and hence as inadequate.

>

> ----------

> >

> > To: PAULDIENER

> > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > Subject: on WOD: [was " Winners " use drugs too says

> DEA]

> > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:08 PM

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I cant make my mind up abt this issue. It seems

> > unanswerable I guess. What does concern me is that both

> > very right-wing and very-left wing ppl are usually anti-WoD

> > - when the extreme left and extreme right agree on

> > something, I wonder if it's a bad idea!

> >

> > Re censorship, it's not censorship to ask for prudence in

> > public communiucations that can be distorted, often

> > unintentionally. If you have a speculation of a sensitive

> > about me, then you could post me privately.

> >

> > AS for " fascist AA " I do thinks that OTT. Radical

> > Conservative yes, but not fascist. Of course, it can be

> > *promoted* by fascists and may benefit fascists too, but it

> > aint the same thing.

> >

> > I distance myself from your comments on Chaz - I think your

> > allegations of him are unfounded. I wouldn't be here if it

> > weren't for Chaz, as it was thru his book that I broke away

> > from XA after being recommended it by a fellow skeptical

> > XA.

> >

> > Ironically, probably my only criticism of his book is that

> > I expect what are his left-wing anarchist views are too

> > prominent in it. This isnt relevant to most readers, even

> > those of the left, and weakens the book.

> >

> > Altho it is essential to consider social factors in

> > addiction, there is nothing realistically a support group

> > for those in the grip of the illness can do to change

> > society. In many respects western society, especilly

> > european, is vastly preferable to anything on offer

> > anywhere else in the world.

> >

> > The dispossessed (as many addicts are) have no influence,

> > and hence perhaps have to have a right-wing anarchist

> > philosophy to survive, at least in the short term.

> >

> > The evil thing abt XA is making ppl like it.

> >

> > Pete

> >

> > On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:37:55 -0600 E Diener

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Pete - no reference to you here, but my OWN position is that people

> should

> > > be allowed to use whatever drug they wish, without having little

> Hitlers

> > > breaking in the front door. Hardly a radical policy. Even Milton

> Freidman

> > > and Szasz hold that view. And, by the way, remember that harm

> does

> > > not correlated with licit or illicit. Cigarettes are, by far, the

> world's

> > > biggest killer drug. Lethal reactions to misused and misprescribed

> > > prescription drugs run into the hundreds of thousands each year in the

> US,

> > > by medical establishment estimate. Drugs can be powerful and

> dangerous,

> > > and folks need to take control and proceed with caution. Regarding

> > > censoring what we say because there are idiots out there - do you

> really

> > > want to do that?

> > >

> > > ----------

> > > >

> > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > Subject: Re: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 5:07 PM

> > > >

> > > > Hi

> > > >

> > > > Rest assured, I am NOT doing illicit drugs, nor will not.

> > > >

> > > > Thankyou for your kind coments, but I have a caveat.

> > > >

> > > > We have seen on addict-l that at least one stepper from

> > > > there has joined this list, and my " propane "

> > > > joke, out of context, has got blown up <g> out of all

> > > > proportion. hence, please be careful abt expressing

> > > > concerns like that I might be using illicit drugs on this

> > > > list - the way rumor breeds like botulism in this medium,

> > > > it could be a start of everyone deciding I am an active

> > > > substance abuser. Rememberm the original report is itself a

> > > > hoax, but I believed it!

> > > >

> > > > Pete

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:06:58 -0600 E Diener

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Pete - remember, pearls grow out of TROUBLED oysters. Embrace your

> > > > > problems, but make them produce for you. Hell, I would rather be

> > > Tennessee

> > > > > , and a genius, than some clerk happily trudging along the

> > > > > corporate hallways. If, to be productive and creative, you are

> better

> > > off

> > > > > abstaining, then just abstain. No big deal. One thing I do worry

> > > about

> > > > > with you, though, is that you may be using licit psychotropics

> without

> > > > > doing all the research required. I support your right to run your

> own

> > > > > life. However, merely in a friendly and concerned way, I would

> advise

> > > you

> > > > > to make sure you get all the info possible about ANY drug you

> choose to

> > > > > use, and then make sure that use is responsible and beneficial.

> > > > > Unfortunately, the drug companies and the medical establishment are

> run

> > > by

> > > > > piranhas, who don't have your best interest at heart. You need to

> take

> > > > > good care of yourself. And don't worry so much about being

> eccentric.

> > > > > Just make it pay. Be creative. Think free. Best regards

> ----------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > > > Cc: Ken R ; 12-step-free

> > > <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:50 PM

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This jives with something I saw on addict-l I think. there

> > > > > > is evidence that some abused kids end up very anxious and

> > > > > > are scared still of drugs so never touch them - but may

> > > > > > have eating disorders and do poorly because of the abuse

> > > > > > effects. Sadly, this fits me to a T; I was always terrified

> > > > > > of addiction to almost anything, including gambling, but

> > > > > > overdrank when younger and have weight problems.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pete

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:21:02 -0600 E Diener

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Big body of research on this topic already exists. Consensus:

> > > > > abstainers

> > > > > > > tend to be " up tight " types, less successful in college, etc

> > > (measured

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > GPA, usually). Heavy dopers/drinkers tend to be disturbed, do

> even

> > > > > more

> > > > > > > poorly. Moderate users of alcohol, marijuana (two substances

> most

> > > > > studies

> > > > > > > focus upon), always show up best. Usual interpretation: people

> who

> > > are

> > > > > > > curious and experimental with drugs and alcohol, but use

> > > moderation,

> > > > > > > usually are also curious and expereimental and moderate in

> other

> > > areas,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > these traits lead to success. Anyone want references, contact

> me.

> > > > > > > ----------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To: 12-step-freeegroups

> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > > > > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:02 PM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hello everyone,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here is an article that was posted on addict-l that you might

> > > find

> > > > > > > > interesting. Makes me wonder if they will ever look within

> the

> > > person

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > explain excessive drug use rather than in the drug.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ken Ragge

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Subject: MN: DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with

> drugs

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:47:34 -0700

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lines: 74

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sender: newsadmin@...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Status: U

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Newshawk: Kim Greenwood

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Pubdate: Sat, 20 Sep 1997

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with drugs

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > WASHINGTON, DC--In a surprise announcement with

> wide-ranging

> > > > > > > > > implications for U.S. narcotics policy, Drug Enforcement

> > > > > Administration

> > > > > > > > > director Constantine acknowledged Monday that some

> > > winners

> > > > > " may

> > > > > > > > > occasionally " use drugs.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Apparently, " said Constantine, addressing reporters at

> Justice

> > > > > > > > > Department headquarters, " contrary to the DEA's

> long-standing

> > > > > > > > > conviction, drug use may not be limited solely to the

> domain of

> > > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > > It appears that some successful Americans have experimented

> > > with

> > > > > > > > > illegal narcotics, as well. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The announcement was the result of a comprehensive

> three-year

> > > DEA

> > > > > study

> > > > > > > > > of more than 40,000 U.S. winners, including thousands of

> > > successful

> > > > > > > > > business executives, doctors, lawyers, scientists and civic

> > > > > leaders.

> > > > > > > > > The study, originally designed by the DEA to help shed

> light on

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > qualities shared by winners that make them resistant to

> drugs,

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > revealed that over 71 percent of winners had at one time or

> > > another

> > > > > > > > > experimented with controlled substances.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Constantine said that it remains unclear why winners, who

> enjoy

> > > > > > > > > successful, productive careers and feelings of love and

> > > acceptance

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > their families, would choose to engage in drug use.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Time and time again, DEA tests have shown that no feeling

> you

> > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > get from drugs could be better than the great feeling you

> get

> > > from

> > > > > > > > > being a winner, " Constantine said. " Why a heart surgeon, an

> > > > > architect

> > > > > > > > > or a straight-A student would use drugs when his senses are

> > > already

> > > > > > > > > enormously heightened by the 'high' that comes from being a

> > > winner

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > beyond me. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Making drug use by winners all the more puzzling,

> Constantine

> > > said,

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the fact that winners are more than strong enough to resist

> the

> > > > > peer

> > > > > > > > > pressure associated with drug use, do not need to get high

> to

> > > > > escape

> > > > > > > > > from a terrible life, and do not associate with the sort of

> > > people

> > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > likely to use drugs--namely, losers.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DEA scientists said it also remains unclear how drug-using

> > > winners

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > managed to avoid addiction and the many well-known

> destructive

> > > > > > > > > side-effects of controlled substances.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Winners seem to have an unknown quality that enables them

> to

> > > use

> > > > > drugs

> > > > > > > > > and keep on winning, " DEA head researcher and narcotics

> expert

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tobin said. " It goes against everything we know about

> drugs,

> > > but

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > of the drug-taking winners we studied did not, in fact,

> become

> > > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > > They did not lose control of their lives, nor did they lose

> > > their

> > > > > loved

> > > > > > > > > ones, their jobs, their homes, or their physical or mental

> > > > > well-being.

> > > > > > > > > There is clearly something at work here that we still do

> not

> > > > > > > > > understand. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tobin cited the five-time Super Bowl champion Dallas

> Cowboys as

> > > a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > example of winners who achieved greatness while engaging in

> > > > > frequent

> > > > > > > > > recreational drug use.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " In 1993 and 1994, the Cowboys clearly were winners,

> trouncing

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > Buffalo Bills--a team with no drug-users on its roster,

> mind

> > > > > you--in

> > > > > > > > > two straight Super Bowls by a combined score of 82 to 30, "

> > > Tobin

> > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > > " It's puzzling, to say the least. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > One winner, Cupertino, CA, neurosurgeon el, a

> > > devoted

> > > > > > > > > family man and casual marijuana smoker, said that the DEA

> > > should

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > necessarily be surprised. " I find that a little pot every

> now

> > > and

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > really helps me relax, " he said. " When you consider that

> > > marijuana

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > less addictive and less harmful than both nicotine and

> alcohol,

> > > it

> > > > > > > > > shouldn't be all that surprising that I, like so many of my

> > > > > esteemed

> > > > > > > > > and accomplished colleagues, choose to smoke up

> occasionally. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As a result of the study, the DEA has been forced to change

> > > many of

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > anti-drug awareness campaigns. On Tuesday, the agency

> ordered

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > recall of more than 150,000 U.S. video arcade games

> displaying

> > > > > > > > > anti-drug messages, including 27,000 Mortal Kombat II and

> > > N.A.R.C.

> > > > > > > > > units, which will be reprogrammed with an altered on-screen

> > > message

> > > > > > > > > from former FBI director Sessions, " Very Few

> Winners

> > > Use

> > > > > > > > > Drugs. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ********

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IN DEA terms 71% = " Very Few "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > Don't lose your email when you move, change jobs, or switch

> > > ISP's.

> > > > > > > > Click here to get free and permanent email from NET@DDRESS!

> > > > > > > > http://ads./click/156/0

> > > > > > > >

November 26, 1998

-

> The reason both the left and right oppose the war on drugs is because it is

> fascist (big corporations and big government united in ruthless repression

> in a time of crisis).

I think the Right oppose the WoD because they advocate lack of restrictions

on almost anything, and some of them take a 'Darwinian' perspective that

drugs will help pacify the populace and wipe out the underclass, and that

theWoD is a waste of money which could could buy weapons or line their

pockets. The left oppose the WoD as they see it as a form of state Control

and are aware of the Draconian punishment of the poor and minorities, plus

they beleive it also a waste of money because it is ineffective, which

could be betters spent on welfare services.

I dont think the Right worry so much abt the WoD being fascist. many are

close-on being fascist themselves (the 'Darwinian' types).

I havent read too much on the rise of european fascism, but the fact that

i've read anything is better than many ppl - I also have probably taken

much above average interest in TV documentaries on the subject, of which

there have been very many recently. The UK media, especially BBC, is

generally considered to be leftist here, tho of course, Chomsky would say

that that's to give an illusion of diversity of ideas and discourse, while

the 'unthinkable' goes unchallenged.

Pete

You really would profit greatly by reading some of

> the history of fascism, especially dealing with medicine as repression and

> the treatment of " deviants " (including problem drinkers and drug users).

> In Europe during the fascist period, the traditional right (the

> " libertarian " types) were anti-nazi, and so, of course, was the left. The

> pattern repeats itself with opposition to the war on drugs. Take a look at

> R. 's DRUG WARRIORS AND THEIR PREY: FROM POLICE POWER TO POLICE

> STATE, 1996. Tons of evidence in this very good book, and the fascist

> connection is made explicitly. Consider, just for an example, " In 1985 the

> US Supreme Court ruled that government agents have authority to hold a

> person incommunicado without access to family or legal advice until the

> person obeys the agents' order to defecate into a waste basket while they

> watch, so the feces may be examined for evidence of drug law violation.

> This authority exists without agents having to show probable cause for

> suspecting a violation. " Does anyone really deny that this is the stuff of

> fascist madness? And, of course, the drug war has come a long, long way

> since 1985. And it still has a very long way to go.-----

> >

> > To: PAULDIENER

> > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > Subject: on WOD: [was " Winners " use drugs too says DEA]

> > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:08 PM

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I cant make my mind up abt this issue. It seems

> > unanswerable I guess. What does concern me is that both

> > very right-wing and very-left wing ppl are usually anti-WoD

> > - when the extreme left and extreme right agree on

> > something, I wonder if it's a bad idea!

> >

> > Re censorship, it's not censorship to ask for prudence in

> > public communiucations that can be distorted, often

> > unintentionally. If you have a speculation of a sensitive

> > about me, then you could post me privately.

> >

> > AS for " fascist AA " I do thinks that OTT. Radical

> > Conservative yes, but not fascist. Of course, it can be

> > *promoted* by fascists and may benefit fascists too, but it

> > aint the same thing.

> >

> > I distance myself from your comments on Chaz - I think your

> > allegations of him are unfounded. I wouldn't be here if it

> > weren't for Chaz, as it was thru his book that I broke away

> > from XA after being recommended it by a fellow skeptical

> > XA.

> >

> > Ironically, probably my only criticism of his book is that

> > I expect what are his left-wing anarchist views are too

> > prominent in it. This isnt relevant to most readers, even

> > those of the left, and weakens the book.

> >

> > Altho it is essential to consider social factors in

> > addiction, there is nothing realistically a support group

> > for those in the grip of the illness can do to change

> > society. In many respects western society, especilly

> > european, is vastly preferable to anything on offer

> > anywhere else in the world.

> >

> > The dispossessed (as many addicts are) have no influence,

> > and hence perhaps have to have a right-wing anarchist

> > philosophy to survive, at least in the short term.

> >

> > The evil thing abt XA is making ppl like it.

> >

> > Pete

> >

> > On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:37:55 -0600 E Diener

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Pete - no reference to you here, but my OWN position is that people

> should

> > > be allowed to use whatever drug they wish, without having little

> Hitlers

> > > breaking in the front door. Hardly a radical policy. Even Milton

> Freidman

> > > and Szasz hold that view. And, by the way, remember that harm

> does

> > > not correlated with licit or illicit. Cigarettes are, by far, the

> world's

> > > biggest killer drug. Lethal reactions to misused and misprescribed

> > > prescription drugs run into the hundreds of thousands each year in the

> US,

> > > by medical establishment estimate. Drugs can be powerful and

> dangerous,

> > > and folks need to take control and proceed with caution. Regarding

> > > censoring what we say because there are idiots out there - do you

> really

> > > want to do that?

> > >

> > > ----------

> > > >

> > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > Subject: Re: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 5:07 PM

> > > >

> > > > Hi

> > > >

> > > > Rest assured, I am NOT doing illicit drugs, nor will not.

> > > >

> > > > Thankyou for your kind coments, but I have a caveat.

> > > >

> > > > We have seen on addict-l that at least one stepper from

> > > > there has joined this list, and my " propane "

> > > > joke, out of context, has got blown up <g> out of all

> > > > proportion. hence, please be careful abt expressing

> > > > concerns like that I might be using illicit drugs on this

> > > > list - the way rumor breeds like botulism in this medium,

> > > > it could be a start of everyone deciding I am an active

> > > > substance abuser. Rememberm the original report is itself a

> > > > hoax, but I believed it!

> > > >

> > > > Pete

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:06:58 -0600 E Diener

> > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Pete - remember, pearls grow out of TROUBLED oysters. Embrace your

> > > > > problems, but make them produce for you. Hell, I would rather be

> > > Tennessee

> > > > > , and a genius, than some clerk happily trudging along the

> > > > > corporate hallways. If, to be productive and creative, you are

> better

> > > off

> > > > > abstaining, then just abstain. No big deal. One thing I do worry

> > > about

> > > > > with you, though, is that you may be using licit psychotropics

> without

> > > > > doing all the research required. I support your right to run your

> own

> > > > > life. However, merely in a friendly and concerned way, I would

> advise

> > > you

> > > > > to make sure you get all the info possible about ANY drug you

> choose to

> > > > > use, and then make sure that use is responsible and beneficial.

> > > > > Unfortunately, the drug companies and the medical establishment are

> run

> > > by

> > > > > piranhas, who don't have your best interest at heart. You need to

> take

> > > > > good care of yourself. And don't worry so much about being

> eccentric.

> > > > > Just make it pay. Be creative. Think free. Best regards

> ----------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > > > Cc: Ken R ; 12-step-free

> > > <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:50 PM

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This jives with something I saw on addict-l I think. there

> > > > > > is evidence that some abused kids end up very anxious and

> > > > > > are scared still of drugs so never touch them - but may

> > > > > > have eating disorders and do poorly because of the abuse

> > > > > > effects. Sadly, this fits me to a T; I was always terrified

> > > > > > of addiction to almost anything, including gambling, but

> > > > > > overdrank when younger and have weight problems.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Pete

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:21:02 -0600 E Diener

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Big body of research on this topic already exists. Consensus:

> > > > > abstainers

> > > > > > > tend to be " up tight " types, less successful in college, etc

> > > (measured

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > GPA, usually). Heavy dopers/drinkers tend to be disturbed, do

> even

> > > > > more

> > > > > > > poorly. Moderate users of alcohol, marijuana (two substances

> most

> > > > > studies

> > > > > > > focus upon), always show up best. Usual interpretation: people

> who

> > > are

> > > > > > > curious and experimental with drugs and alcohol, but use

> > > moderation,

> > > > > > > usually are also curious and expereimental and moderate in

> other

> > > areas,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > these traits lead to success. Anyone want references, contact

> me.

> > > > > > > ----------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To: 12-step-freeegroups

> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > > > > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:02 PM

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hello everyone,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Here is an article that was posted on addict-l that you might

> > > find

> > > > > > > > interesting. Makes me wonder if they will ever look within

> the

> > > person

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > explain excessive drug use rather than in the drug.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ken Ragge

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Subject: MN: DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with

> drugs

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:47:34 -0700

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Lines: 74

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sender: newsadmin@...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Status: U

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Newshawk: Kim Greenwood

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Pubdate: Sat, 20 Sep 1997

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with drugs

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > WASHINGTON, DC--In a surprise announcement with

> wide-ranging

> > > > > > > > > implications for U.S. narcotics policy, Drug Enforcement

> > > > > Administration

> > > > > > > > > director Constantine acknowledged Monday that some

> > > winners

> > > > > " may

> > > > > > > > > occasionally " use drugs.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Apparently, " said Constantine, addressing reporters at

> Justice

> > > > > > > > > Department headquarters, " contrary to the DEA's

> long-standing

> > > > > > > > > conviction, drug use may not be limited solely to the

> domain of

> > > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > > It appears that some successful Americans have experimented

> > > with

> > > > > > > > > illegal narcotics, as well. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The announcement was the result of a comprehensive

> three-year

> > > DEA

> > > > > study

> > > > > > > > > of more than 40,000 U.S. winners, including thousands of

> > > successful

> > > > > > > > > business executives, doctors, lawyers, scientists and civic

> > > > > leaders.

> > > > > > > > > The study, originally designed by the DEA to help shed

> light on

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > qualities shared by winners that make them resistant to

> drugs,

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > revealed that over 71 percent of winners had at one time or

> > > another

> > > > > > > > > experimented with controlled substances.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Constantine said that it remains unclear why winners, who

> enjoy

> > > > > > > > > successful, productive careers and feelings of love and

> > > acceptance

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > their families, would choose to engage in drug use.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Time and time again, DEA tests have shown that no feeling

> you

> > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > get from drugs could be better than the great feeling you

> get

> > > from

> > > > > > > > > being a winner, " Constantine said. " Why a heart surgeon, an

> > > > > architect

> > > > > > > > > or a straight-A student would use drugs when his senses are

> > > already

> > > > > > > > > enormously heightened by the 'high' that comes from being a

> > > winner

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > beyond me. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Making drug use by winners all the more puzzling,

> Constantine

> > > said,

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the fact that winners are more than strong enough to resist

> the

> > > > > peer

> > > > > > > > > pressure associated with drug use, do not need to get high

> to

> > > > > escape

> > > > > > > > > from a terrible life, and do not associate with the sort of

> > > people

> > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > likely to use drugs--namely, losers.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > DEA scientists said it also remains unclear how drug-using

> > > winners

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > managed to avoid addiction and the many well-known

> destructive

> > > > > > > > > side-effects of controlled substances.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " Winners seem to have an unknown quality that enables them

> to

> > > use

> > > > > drugs

> > > > > > > > > and keep on winning, " DEA head researcher and narcotics

> expert

> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tobin said. " It goes against everything we know about

> drugs,

> > > but

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > of the drug-taking winners we studied did not, in fact,

> become

> > > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > > They did not lose control of their lives, nor did they lose

> > > their

> > > > > loved

> > > > > > > > > ones, their jobs, their homes, or their physical or mental

> > > > > well-being.

> > > > > > > > > There is clearly something at work here that we still do

> not

> > > > > > > > > understand. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tobin cited the five-time Super Bowl champion Dallas

> Cowboys as

> > > a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > example of winners who achieved greatness while engaging in

> > > > > frequent

> > > > > > > > > recreational drug use.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " In 1993 and 1994, the Cowboys clearly were winners,

> trouncing

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > Buffalo Bills--a team with no drug-users on its roster,

> mind

> > > > > you--in

> > > > > > > > > two straight Super Bowls by a combined score of 82 to 30, "

> > > Tobin

> > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > > " It's puzzling, to say the least. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > One winner, Cupertino, CA, neurosurgeon el, a

> > > devoted

> > > > > > > > > family man and casual marijuana smoker, said that the DEA

> > > should

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > necessarily be surprised. " I find that a little pot every

> now

> > > and

> > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > really helps me relax, " he said. " When you consider that

> > > marijuana

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > less addictive and less harmful than both nicotine and

> alcohol,

> > > it

> > > > > > > > > shouldn't be all that surprising that I, like so many of my

> > > > > esteemed

> > > > > > > > > and accomplished colleagues, choose to smoke up

> occasionally. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As a result of the study, the DEA has been forced to change

> > > many of

> > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > anti-drug awareness campaigns. On Tuesday, the agency

> ordered

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > recall of more than 150,000 U.S. video arcade games

> displaying

> > > > > > > > > anti-drug messages, including 27,000 Mortal Kombat II and

> > > N.A.R.C.

> > > > > > > > > units, which will be reprogrammed with an altered on-screen

> > > message

> > > > > > > > > from former FBI director Sessions, " Very Few

> Winners

> > > Use

> > > > > > > > > Drugs. "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ********

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > IN DEA terms 71% = " Very Few "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > Don't lose your email when you move, change jobs, or switch

> > > ISP's.

> > > > > > > > Click here to get free and permanent email from NET@DDRESS!

> > > > > > > > http://ads./click/156/0

> > > > > > > >

November 26, 1998

Hitler was not elected.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----

http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 26, 1998

Please could everyone take some time to snip replies to only what is

relevant. The messages are just growing and growing in length and it

cost me here in the UK for download time and I'm getting pretty fed up

of downloading tons of stuff that I have already read and probably

recieved about 50 times already. Ok, rant over, please carry on but a

bit of consideration would be gratefully recieved :-)

--

M

Bristol

England ICQ#7099782

------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 26, 1998

Thank you for noticing my typo. It is one of the ironic twists of history

that fascism emerged where human rights actually had been traditionally

respected. Hitler, too, was popularly elected. This is what makes the

fascist cults so dangerous; the middle classes seem to YEARN for a higher

power, of one sort or another.

----------

>

> To: PAULDIENER

> Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> Subject: Re: on WOD: [was " Winners " use drugs too

says DEA]

> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 11:28 AM

>

> - while being by no means blind to the injustices of western

society,

> I just see what is happening *at present* in the world as suggesting that

> human rights are upheld more in the West than in other places.

>

> Chomsky may be right that we self-censor (I presume that's what you mean,

> rather than censure, though you might argue that censureship always

> precedes censorship), but I dont see that as necessarily as a bad thing.

> Self-censorship could provide resistance to 12-step or other cultism, by

> refusing to countenace their silly ideas.

>

> Pete

>

> On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:17:45 -0600 E Diener

wrote:

>

> > Pete - the linguist Noam Chomsky makes a good point when he talks about

> > " self censureship. " He argues that most of us are trained to very

> > carefully contain our thinking within " the boundaries of thinkable

> > thought. " Thus, obvious and important truths and warnings get ignored

-

> > how else, after all, can you explain the rise of Nazism and the

holocaust

> > in Europe's most civilized nation, and fascism's success in most of the

> > rest of that continent? (And does not the fascist past, and imminent

> > fascist future, make you doubt the " superiority " of Western culture?)

> > Today, important and obvious truths are also being ignored. One of the

> > dangers of liberal scholarship is that it helps to draw the " boundaries

of

> > thinkable thought " - " This far, but NO FURTHER! " And yet the evidence

is

> > so compelling. One truly must self-censure not to see it. There is an

> > advantage to having had a troubled period in life, in being, in one way

or

> > another, a " deviant. " An outsider, I think, has an opportunity to look

on

> > the everyday with fresh eyes. (Of course, once outside the pale,

persons

> > can also go dreadfully wrong.) As to Bufe, I only know the book, which

I

> > see as serving a limiting function, and hence as inadequate.

> >

> > ----------

> > >

> > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > Subject: on WOD: [was " Winners " use drugs too

says

> > DEA]

> > > Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 6:08 PM

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > I cant make my mind up abt this issue. It seems

> > > unanswerable I guess. What does concern me is that both

> > > very right-wing and very-left wing ppl are usually anti-WoD

> > > - when the extreme left and extreme right agree on

> > > something, I wonder if it's a bad idea!

> > >

> > > Re censorship, it's not censorship to ask for prudence in

> > > public communiucations that can be distorted, often

> > > unintentionally. If you have a speculation of a sensitive

> > > about me, then you could post me privately.

> > >

> > > AS for " fascist AA " I do thinks that OTT. Radical

> > > Conservative yes, but not fascist. Of course, it can be

> > > *promoted* by fascists and may benefit fascists too, but it

> > > aint the same thing.

> > >

> > > I distance myself from your comments on Chaz - I think your

> > > allegations of him are unfounded. I wouldn't be here if it

> > > weren't for Chaz, as it was thru his book that I broke away

> > > from XA after being recommended it by a fellow skeptical

> > > XA.

> > >

> > > Ironically, probably my only criticism of his book is that

> > > I expect what are his left-wing anarchist views are too

> > > prominent in it. This isnt relevant to most readers, even

> > > those of the left, and weakens the book.

> > >

> > > Altho it is essential to consider social factors in

> > > addiction, there is nothing realistically a support group

> > > for those in the grip of the illness can do to change

> > > society. In many respects western society, especilly

> > > european, is vastly preferable to anything on offer

> > > anywhere else in the world.

> > >

> > > The dispossessed (as many addicts are) have no influence,

> > > and hence perhaps have to have a right-wing anarchist

> > > philosophy to survive, at least in the short term.

> > >

> > > The evil thing abt XA is making ppl like it.

> > >

> > > Pete

> > >

> > > On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:37:55 -0600 E Diener

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Pete - no reference to you here, but my OWN position is that people

> > should

> > > > be allowed to use whatever drug they wish, without having little

> > Hitlers

> > > > breaking in the front door. Hardly a radical policy. Even Milton

> > Freidman

> > > > and Szasz hold that view. And, by the way, remember that

harm

> > does

> > > > not correlated with licit or illicit. Cigarettes are, by far, the

> > world's

> > > > biggest killer drug. Lethal reactions to misused and misprescribed

> > > > prescription drugs run into the hundreds of thousands each year in

the

> > US,

> > > > by medical establishment estimate. Drugs can be powerful and

> > dangerous,

> > > > and folks need to take control and proceed with caution. Regarding

> > > > censoring what we say because there are idiots out there - do you

> > really

> > > > want to do that?

> > > >

> > > > ----------

> > > > >

> > > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > > Cc: 12-step-free <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 5:07 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi

> > > > >

> > > > > Rest assured, I am NOT doing illicit drugs, nor will not.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thankyou for your kind coments, but I have a caveat.

> > > > >

> > > > > We have seen on addict-l that at least one stepper from

> > > > > there has joined this list, and my " propane "

> > > > > joke, out of context, has got blown up <g> out of all

> > > > > proportion. hence, please be careful abt expressing

> > > > > concerns like that I might be using illicit drugs on this

> > > > > list - the way rumor breeds like botulism in this medium,

> > > > > it could be a start of everyone deciding I am an active

> > > > > substance abuser. Rememberm the original report is itself a

> > > > > hoax, but I believed it!

> > > > >

> > > > > Pete

> > > > >

> > > > > On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:06:58 -0600 E Diener

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Pete - remember, pearls grow out of TROUBLED oysters. Embrace

your

> > > > > > problems, but make them produce for you. Hell, I would rather

be

> > > > Tennessee

> > > > > > , and a genius, than some clerk happily trudging along

the

> > > > > > corporate hallways. If, to be productive and creative, you are

> > better

> > > > off

> > > > > > abstaining, then just abstain. No big deal. One thing I do

worry

> > > > about

> > > > > > with you, though, is that you may be using licit psychotropics

> > without

> > > > > > doing all the research required. I support your right to run

your

> > own

> > > > > > life. However, merely in a friendly and concerned way, I would

> > advise

> > > > you

> > > > > > to make sure you get all the info possible about ANY drug you

> > choose to

> > > > > > use, and then make sure that use is responsible and beneficial.

> > > > > > Unfortunately, the drug companies and the medical establishment

are

> > run

> > > > by

> > > > > > piranhas, who don't have your best interest at heart. You need

to

> > take

> > > > > > good care of yourself. And don't worry so much about being

> > eccentric.

> > > > > > Just make it pay. Be creative. Think free. Best regards

> > ----------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To: PAULDIENER

> > > > > > > Cc: Ken R ; 12-step-free

> > > > <12-step-freeegroups>

> > > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says DEA

> > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:50 PM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This jives with something I saw on addict-l I think. there

> > > > > > > is evidence that some abused kids end up very anxious and

> > > > > > > are scared still of drugs so never touch them - but may

> > > > > > > have eating disorders and do poorly because of the abuse

> > > > > > > effects. Sadly, this fits me to a T; I was always terrified

> > > > > > > of addiction to almost anything, including gambling, but

> > > > > > > overdrank when younger and have weight problems.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Pete

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:21:02 -0600 E Diener

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Big body of research on this topic already exists.

Consensus:

> > > > > > abstainers

> > > > > > > > tend to be " up tight " types, less successful in college,

etc

> > > > (measured

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > GPA, usually). Heavy dopers/drinkers tend to be disturbed,

do

> > even

> > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > poorly. Moderate users of alcohol, marijuana (two

substances

> > most

> > > > > > studies

> > > > > > > > focus upon), always show up best. Usual interpretation:

people

> > who

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > curious and experimental with drugs and alcohol, but use

> > > > moderation,

> > > > > > > > usually are also curious and expereimental and moderate in

> > other

> > > > areas,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > these traits lead to success. Anyone want references,

contact

> > me.

> > > > > > > > ----------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To: 12-step-freeegroups

> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: " Winners " use drugs too says

DEA

> > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:02 PM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Here is an article that was posted on addict-l that you

might

> > > > find

> > > > > > > > > interesting. Makes me wonder if they will ever look

within

> > the

> > > > person

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > explain excessive drug use rather than in the drug.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ken Ragge

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Subject: MN: DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment

with

> > drugs

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:47:34 -0700

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Lines: 74

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sender: newsadmin@...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Status: U

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Newshawk: Kim Greenwood

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pubdate: Sat, 20 Sep 1997

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DEA Survey: 71% of " Winners " experiment with drugs

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > WASHINGTON, DC--In a surprise announcement with

> > wide-ranging

> > > > > > > > > > implications for U.S. narcotics policy, Drug

Enforcement

> > > > > > Administration

> > > > > > > > > > director Constantine acknowledged Monday that

some

> > > > winners

> > > > > > " may

> > > > > > > > > > occasionally " use drugs.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Apparently, " said Constantine, addressing reporters at

> > Justice

> > > > > > > > > > Department headquarters, " contrary to the DEA's

> > long-standing

> > > > > > > > > > conviction, drug use may not be limited solely to the

> > domain of

> > > > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > > > It appears that some successful Americans have

experimented

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > illegal narcotics, as well. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The announcement was the result of a comprehensive

> > three-year

> > > > DEA

> > > > > > study

> > > > > > > > > > of more than 40,000 U.S. winners, including thousands

of

> > > > successful

> > > > > > > > > > business executives, doctors, lawyers, scientists and

civic

> > > > > > leaders.

> > > > > > > > > > The study, originally designed by the DEA to help shed

> > light on

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > qualities shared by winners that make them resistant to

> > drugs,

> > > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > > > revealed that over 71 percent of winners had at one

time or

> > > > another

> > > > > > > > > > experimented with controlled substances.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Constantine said that it remains unclear why winners,

who

> > enjoy

> > > > > > > > > > successful, productive careers and feelings of love and

> > > > acceptance

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > their families, would choose to engage in drug use.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Time and time again, DEA tests have shown that no

feeling

> > you

> > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > get from drugs could be better than the great feeling

you

> > get

> > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > being a winner, " Constantine said. " Why a heart

surgeon, an

> > > > > > architect

> > > > > > > > > > or a straight-A student would use drugs when his senses

are

> > > > already

> > > > > > > > > > enormously heightened by the 'high' that comes from

being a

> > > > winner

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > beyond me. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Making drug use by winners all the more puzzling,

> > Constantine

> > > > said,

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > the fact that winners are more than strong enough to

resist

> > the

> > > > > > peer

> > > > > > > > > > pressure associated with drug use, do not need to get

high

> > to

> > > > > > escape

> > > > > > > > > > from a terrible life, and do not associate with the

sort of

> > > > people

> > > > > > most

> > > > > > > > > > likely to use drugs--namely, losers.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > DEA scientists said it also remains unclear how

drug-using

> > > > winners

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > managed to avoid addiction and the many well-known

> > destructive

> > > > > > > > > > side-effects of controlled substances.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " Winners seem to have an unknown quality that enables

them

> > to

> > > > use

> > > > > > drugs

> > > > > > > > > > and keep on winning, " DEA head researcher and narcotics

> > expert

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Tobin said. " It goes against everything we know about

> > drugs,

> > > > but

> > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > of the drug-taking winners we studied did not, in fact,

> > become

> > > > > > losers.

> > > > > > > > > > They did not lose control of their lives, nor did they

lose

> > > > their

> > > > > > loved

> > > > > > > > > > ones, their jobs, their homes, or their physical or

mental

> > > > > > well-being.

> > > > > > > > > > There is clearly something at work here that we still

do

> > not

> > > > > > > > > > understand. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Tobin cited the five-time Super Bowl champion Dallas

> > Cowboys as

> > > > a

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > example of winners who achieved greatness while

engaging in

> > > > > > frequent

> > > > > > > > > > recreational drug use.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " In 1993 and 1994, the Cowboys clearly were winners,

> > trouncing

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > Buffalo Bills--a team with no drug-users on its roster,

> > mind

> > > > > > you--in

> > > > > > > > > > two straight Super Bowls by a combined score of 82 to

30, "

> > > > Tobin

> > > > > > said.

> > > > > > > > > > " It's puzzling, to say the least. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > One winner, Cupertino, CA, neurosurgeon

el, a

> > > > devoted

> > > > > > > > > > family man and casual marijuana smoker, said that the

DEA

> > > > should

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > necessarily be surprised. " I find that a little pot

every

> > now

> > > > and

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > really helps me relax, " he said. " When you consider

that

> > > > marijuana

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > less addictive and less harmful than both nicotine and

> > alcohol,

> > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > shouldn't be all that surprising that I, like so many

of my

> > > > > > esteemed

> > > > > > > > > > and accomplished colleagues, choose to smoke up

> > occasionally. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > As a result of the study, the DEA has been forced to

change

> > > > many of

> > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > anti-drug awareness campaigns. On Tuesday, the agency

> > ordered

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > recall of more than 150,000 U.S. video arcade games

> > displaying

> > > > > > > > > > anti-drug messages, including 27,000 Mortal Kombat II

and

> > > > N.A.R.C.

> > > > > > > > > > units, which will be reprogrammed with an altered

on-screen

> > > > message

> > > > > > > > > > from former FBI director Sessions, " Very Few

> > Winners

> > > > Use

> > > > > > > > > > Drugs. "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ********

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > IN DEA terms 71% = " Very Few "

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > Don't lose your email when you move, change jobs, or

switch

> > > > ISP's.

> > > > > > > > > Click here to get free and permanent email from

NET@DDRESS!

> > > > > > > > > http://ads./click/156/0

> > > > > > > > >

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