Re: need some advice please

[Guest guest]

Based on what others have shared here, seems like you need to be prepared for

the likelihood that any letter to fada or conversation with him will be shared

with nada, and the possible results of that.

Is there an answer you can provide that will avoid a back and forth blame game?

Maybe, " Dad, I've just come to realize that my relationship with mom is really

unhealthy. I've tried to figure out how to fix it, and I've made lots of

attempts to fix it, but I realized that it's beyond fixing. Maybe our

personalities just clash. Whatever the reason, it seems way better for both of

us if we maintain some distance and stop trying to force a close relationship,

because it doesn't work and causes both of us a lot of grief. " [Can you tell

I've been considering a similar response for some of my FOO?]

It's a half-baked thought. What do others think?

- gethappy

>

> I realy appreciate the support this group has given me so I come to you once

again for advice.

>

> I've been NC with nada for 3 months and its been very healthy for me. My

father who is non bp but always takes nada's side called me at work asking why I

dont call anymore. I tried to be vague but he kept pushing. I told him I could

not do this at work. he said he understood and we hung up but I feel his

question hanging over my head.

>

> I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my dad over the

phone. The question is should i write a letter explaining things or should i

leave it alone. should i tell my dad about bpd? one time my husband tried to

talk to my dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame as her so

I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

it sure didn't work for me...in fact, it backfired terribly..I wasn't even

NC, but nada decided I needed to call them MORE ( I had called them once

amonth), so she and fada called ( I have been called 3X in the past 5 months

and all they've done is yell at me, saying I'm a terrible daughter, they

want more communication from me etc!!) I told fada on the phone ( with nada

listing ) that I was tired of the games she plays, and I was tired of the

nastiness she always hands out to me, and I was tired of having to put up

with her tantrums ( the last one, like usual, she threatened to kill us

all!!) fada yelled " THAT NEVER HAPPENED " to each of the things I complained

about...my fada always takes nadas side, and thinks she's the best thing

since ice cream :-( during our conversation, after he was saying that never

happened, I told him if he was honest, he would know I was speaking the

truth...

Jackie

I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my dad over the

phone. The question is should i write a letter explaining things or should

i leave it alone. should i tell my dad about bpd? one time my husband

tried to talk to my dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame

as her so I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

If I were in your situation, I would just say something to my dad using a lot of

" I " words.

Something like: " I need to take a break, a sort of " time out " from mother. I

become (stressed-out and anxious) when I talk with her and I need time to sort

out my feelings. Don't worry, you'll be contacted if there is anything

important that you need to know about us, but otherwise I hope that you and mom

will respect my need for time apart. "

No details, no justification, no additional explanations are necessary. So, no

back-and-forth; simply do not respond to any further phone calls or e-mails, and

do not let them in your home.

Such assertiveness will probably astonish your nada (bpd-mom). If she respects

your boundary, that is an encouraging sign. If it enrages her and she begins

escalating her efforts to contact you, just see that as clear evidence that she

is used to being obeyed and used to controlling you, and that is a good reason

to maintain your boundary even longer.

Its a hard thing to set boundaries, but in my opinion its worth the effort.

-Annie

>

> I realy appreciate the support this group has given me so I come to you once

again for advice.

>

> I've been NC with nada for 3 months and its been very healthy for me. My

father who is non bp but always takes nada's side called me at work asking why I

dont call anymore. I tried to be vague but he kept pushing. I told him I could

not do this at work. he said he understood and we hung up but I feel his

question hanging over my head.

>

> I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my dad over the

phone. The question is should i write a letter explaining things or should i

leave it alone. should i tell my dad about bpd? one time my husband tried to

talk to my dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame as her so

I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with gethappy. Men who stay married to BPs seem to

mostly follow the pattern of repeating whatever you tell them or

sharing anything you put in writing. It seems that the ones who

have enough guts to stand up to them, like my father, either

don't stay in the marriage, don't stay sane themselves, and/or

eventually give in and start doing what their wives want long

before their children are grown. Twenty or more years of dealing

with a spouse with BPD would take its toll on anyone. If your

father has stayed with her this long and takes her side, it

seems unlikely that he'd keep any letter you wrote to himself.

Giving him an answer that explains to some extent without

blaming your nada seems to me to be more likely to keep the

lines of communication with him open. After you see how he

reacts to that, maybe you could explain about BPD at some point,

but doing it in person if you can arrange to see him without her

seems like a better choice to me.

At 01:51 PM 04/02/2009 gethappy73 wrote:

>Based on what others have shared here, seems like you need to

>be prepared for the likelihood that any letter to fada or

>conversation with him will be shared with nada, and the

>possible results of that.

>

>Is there an answer you can provide that will avoid a back and

>forth blame game? Maybe, " Dad, I've just come to realize that

>my relationship with mom is really unhealthy. I've tried to

>figure out how to fix it, and I've made lots of attempts to fix

>it, but I realized that it's beyond fixing. Maybe our

>personalities just clash. Whatever the reason, it seems way

>better for both of us if we maintain some distance and stop

>trying to force a close relationship, because it doesn't work

>and causes both of us a lot of grief. " [Can you tell I've been

>considering a similar response for some of my FOO?]

>

>It's a half-baked thought. What do others think?

>

>- gethappy

>

>

>>I realy appreciate the support this group has given me so I

>>come to you once again for advice.

>

>> I've been NC with nada for 3 months and its been very

>> healthy for me. My father who is non bp but always takes

>> nada's side called me at work asking why I dont call

>> anymore. I tried to be vague but he kept pushing. I told

>> him I could not do this at work. he said he understood and

>> we hung up but I feel his question hanging over my head.

> >

>> I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my

>> dad over the phone. The question is should i write a letter

>> explaining things or should i leave it alone. should i tell

>> my dad about bpd? one time my husband tried to talk to my

>> dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame as

>> her so I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

wow, that is so perfect!

> >

> > I realy appreciate the support this group has given me so I come to you once

again for advice.

> >

> > I've been NC with nada for 3 months and its been very healthy for me. My

father who is non bp but always takes nada's side called me at work asking why I

dont call anymore. I tried to be vague but he kept pushing. I told him I could

not do this at work. he said he understood and we hung up but I feel his

question hanging over my head.

> >

> > I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my dad over the

phone. The question is should i write a letter explaining things or should i

leave it alone. should i tell my dad about bpd? one time my husband tried to

talk to my dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame as her so

I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

that helps a lot thank you. Should I contact him with that answer or should i

wait until he contacts me again?

> >

> > I realy appreciate the support this group has given me so I come to you once

again for advice.

> >

> > I've been NC with nada for 3 months and its been very healthy for me. My

father who is non bp but always takes nada's side called me at work asking why I

dont call anymore. I tried to be vague but he kept pushing. I told him I could

not do this at work. he said he understood and we hung up but I feel his

question hanging over my head.

> >

> > I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my dad over the

phone. The question is should i write a letter explaining things or should i

leave it alone. should i tell my dad about bpd? one time my husband tried to

talk to my dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame as her so

I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

this is exactly what I fear happenning!

>

> it sure didn't work for me...in fact, it backfired terribly..I wasn't even

> NC, but nada decided I needed to call them MORE ( I had called them once

> amonth), so she and fada called ( I have been called 3X in the past 5 months

> and all they've done is yell at me, saying I'm a terrible daughter, they

> want more communication from me etc!!) I told fada on the phone ( with nada

> listing ) that I was tired of the games she plays, and I was tired of the

> nastiness she always hands out to me, and I was tired of having to put up

> with her tantrums ( the last one, like usual, she threatened to kill us

> all!!) fada yelled " THAT NEVER HAPPENED " to each of the things I complained

> about...my fada always takes nadas side, and thinks she's the best thing

> since ice cream :-( during our conversation, after he was saying that never

> happened, I told him if he was honest, he would know I was speaking the

> truth...

>

> Jackie

>

> I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my dad over the

> phone. The question is should i write a letter explaining things or should

> i leave it alone. should i tell my dad about bpd? one time my husband

> tried to talk to my dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame

> as her so I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

>

> Thank you.

>

[Guest guest]

I also agree with Katrina, and gethappy. Make sure you frame everything

in the " I " context, that you've come to understand your relationship

with nada is unhealthy FOR YOU and you need to be apart from her for

your own well-being. He may not understand it, but ask him to respect it.

This is one aspect that makes me so sad, that BP/NPs divide families so

easily - that they keep non-BPs from enjoying what could be normal

relationships with other non-BP's in the family. Even if the non-BPs

get along and have no issues with each other, their relationship will

always be overshadowed by the dark cloud of the BP.

Suzy

Katrina wrote:

>

> I agree with gethappy. Men who stay married to BPs seem to

> mostly follow the pattern of repeating whatever you tell them or

> sharing anything you put in writing. It seems that the ones who

> have enough guts to stand up to them, like my father, either

> don't stay in the marriage, don't stay sane themselves, and/or

> eventually give in and start doing what their wives want long

> before their children are grown. Twenty or more years of dealing

> with a spouse with BPD would take its toll on anyone. If your

> father has stayed with her this long and takes her side, it

> seems unlikely that he'd keep any letter you wrote to himself.

> Giving him an answer that explains to some extent without

> blaming your nada seems to me to be more likely to keep the

> lines of communication with him open. After you see how he

> reacts to that, maybe you could explain about BPD at some point,

> but doing it in person if you can arrange to see him without her

> seems like a better choice to me.

>

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, *when* is just personal preference, I guess. If it were me, my preference

would be to wait until the next time your dad phones you.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I realy appreciate the support this group has given me so I come to you

once again for advice.

> > >

> > > I've been NC with nada for 3 months and its been very healthy for me. My

father who is non bp but always takes nada's side called me at work asking why I

dont call anymore. I tried to be vague but he kept pushing. I told him I could

not do this at work. he said he understood and we hung up but I feel his

question hanging over my head.

> > >

> > > I do not want to get in a back and forth blame game with my dad over the

phone. The question is should i write a letter explaining things or should i

leave it alone. should i tell my dad about bpd? one time my husband tried to

talk to my dad about my nada and my dad said i was as much to blame as her so

I'm not sure if talking to him would be productive.

> > >

> > > Thank you.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was VERY surprised that it happened to me !! fada, 5 years ago, came to

me and said he had a lot of regrets about standing by while nada did what

she did to us, and he never tried to stop her...so he IS aware of what she

is and what she's done/does , it was the first and last time he ever

admitted that nada wasn't normal..of course now he denies it all !! :-(

Jackie

this is exactly what I fear happenning!

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

I'm so glad your fada could admit that to you, because in my opinion, my fada is

just as guilty as nada...whether by omission or commission. My fada blended

into the furniture while nada raged at me up one side and down the

other...selfishly relieved he wasn't being targeted...he could defend his

country but not his daughter and only child!

What was your fada looking for...forgiveness so he can go to his grave having

made peace with you about enabling his abusive wife?

To the person who asked the original question...I certainly would not call to

inform nada or fada that I would be going LC/NC...that is called leading with

the chin or inviting unnecessary unmanageablility into your life. Banish that

thought...they don't deserve any reasons...knowing your reasons empowers them to

over ride them with fine sounding persuasive arguments.

I'm trying to adopt a new comeback for when I'm told I've hurt, disappointed,

mistreated, or disrespected THEM - or - that I'm guilty, rotten, ungrateful,

blameful, shameful, stupid, bad, sad, crazy, etc.

Here's my comeback " I'M SORRY YOU FEEL THAT WAY! "

This validates their feelings w/o ever acknowledging I take ownership of any

false accusation made against me. It puts the ball back in their court...saying

they are the ones with the feelings, they've adopted them by choice, but I'm not

going to grovel, apologize, or scramble to people-please.

>

> I was VERY surprised that it happened to me !! fada, 5 years ago, came to

> me and said he had a lot of regrets about standing by while nada did what

> she did to us, and he never tried to stop her...so he IS aware of what she

> is and what she's done/does , it was the first and last time he ever

> admitted that nada wasn't normal..of course now he denies it all !! :-(

>

> Jackie

>

>

> this is exactly what I fear happenning!

>

[Guest guest]

thanks, BUT...he's gone back to being her number one fan again...so that

really pissed me off..he KNOWS something's wrong with her behavior, he feels

regret for allowing her to treat us like she does, then he goes deep into

denial and nothing changes, and he's back to behaving the way he always

did...so I kind of think he's WORSE than she ( in a way) because he KNOWS

she's wrong, but still supports her doing it.. and yes, my fada was like

yours, he never tried to help us kids..I don't know what he was looking

for..

Jackie

Jackie,

I'm so glad your fada could admit that to you, because in my opinion, my

fada is just as guilty as nada...whether by omission or commission. My fada

blended into the furniture while nada raged at me up one side and down the

other...selfishly relieved he wasn't being targeted...he could defend his

country but not his daughter and only child!

What was your fada looking for...forgiveness so he can go to his grave

having made peace with you about enabling his abusive wife?

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

You must be my long lost sister! i am the only daughter and my fada, who is a

Vietnam Veteran, fought long and hard for many years overseas to protect and

defend his country. However, on the homefront, he is a complete whimp who is in

complete submission to my nada. When she rages at me, he does nothing but sit

there and take it. Then, when she is done with me, she turns to him and he STILL

doesn't defend himself. His excuse? " I just can't say anything to her. " He plays

both ends of the fence by telling me what a horrible person she is, but God only

knows what he says to my nada when she rages and splits on me and Im the devil!

The night before my wedding, I spent the night at my parent's house. My soon to

be husband was getting together with his groomsmen to discuss the limo

arrangements and timing for the photographer. Needless to say, it turned into a

little party. He called me make sure this was okay with me and assured me that

it wasn't going to last long. I thought it was fine and told him to make sure he

was at the church at a certain time so we don't bump into each other (bad

luck!!) My nada abhored this idea and raged at me all night about it. When I

finally had enough, I went into the guest room and locked the door. She opened

with a spare key she had and continued to rage at me. What was my fada doing? In

bed watching the whole thing happen.

I just remember that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the

problem. He is definitely part of the problem and just as responsible for the

behavior as she is.

AJ

>

> thanks, BUT...he's gone back to being her number one fan again...so that

> really pissed me off..he KNOWS something's wrong with her behavior, he feels

> regret for allowing her to treat us like she does, then he goes deep into

> denial and nothing changes, and he's back to behaving the way he always

> did...so I kind of think he's WORSE than she ( in a way) because he KNOWS

> she's wrong, but still supports her doing it.. and yes, my fada was like

> yours, he never tried to help us kids..I don't know what he was looking

> for..

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Jackie,

>

> I'm so glad your fada could admit that to you, because in my opinion, my

> fada is just as guilty as nada...whether by omission or commission. My fada

> blended into the furniture while nada raged at me up one side and down the

> other...selfishly relieved he wasn't being targeted...he could defend his

> country but not his daughter and only child!

>

> What was your fada looking for...forgiveness so he can go to his grave

> having made peace with you about enabling his abusive wife?

>

[Guest guest]

My dad fought in Korea but rarely fought much less stood up against nada. I can

count on one finger the amount of time she stood up to defend me. ONCE. As you

say AJ, he has been part of the problem instead of part of the solution. I'm

just as mad at him as I am at her. And Jackie, I know you are hurt that your

fada defends her and goes back into denial, but what I wouldn't give to hear

some validation come out of my fada's mouth...just once. But I never will.

My counselor told me to read " Children of the Self-Absorbed. " It arrived the

other day, I hope to find some time this weekend to start reading it.

> >

> > thanks, BUT...he's gone back to being her number one fan again...so that

> > really pissed me off..he KNOWS something's wrong with her behavior, he feels

> > regret for allowing her to treat us like she does, then he goes deep into

> > denial and nothing changes, and he's back to behaving the way he always

> > did...so I kind of think he's WORSE than she ( in a way) because he KNOWS

> > she's wrong, but still supports her doing it.. and yes, my fada was like

> > yours, he never tried to help us kids..I don't know what he was looking

> > for..

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Jackie,

> >

> > I'm so glad your fada could admit that to you, because in my opinion, my

> > fada is just as guilty as nada...whether by omission or commission. My fada

> > blended into the furniture while nada raged at me up one side and down the

> > other...selfishly relieved he wasn't being targeted...he could defend his

> > country but not his daughter and only child!

> >

> > What was your fada looking for...forgiveness so he can go to his grave

> > having made peace with you about enabling his abusive wife?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Esti,

What do you want to tell him?  Do you want to tell him anything?  Just because

he is your father and he asked you doesn't mean you have to tell him.  It is

okay to say you aren't comfortable discussing it with him or that it is between

you and your mom and if you haven't told her, then it wouldn't be right to tell

him.

You know your mom most likely put him up to it, or talked about it so much he

got distressed and decided he wanted to know why you aren't calling too. 

Anything you say will get back to her and the intention is very likely to make

you feel guilty.

Best,

Ashana

Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at

http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

Has it crossed your mind that your fada may be as disordered as your nada?

The need to remain that deep in denial comes from somewhere.

Ashana

Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Hi AJ,

I am one of 3 girls, but for some reason, *I* get the crap, and my other two

sisters do not...nada had a heartattack last oct and expected me to drop

everything and come to take care of them...I have a husband, 2 dogs, horses

other animals I have to take care of...neither of my sisters are married,

one has a dog, their kids are grown, but nada and fada think it's OK to call

me up and yell at me and tell me I'm an awful daughter because I didn't run

to her...I did set up a traveling nurse to stop by 3 times a week, but they

told her that they didn't want her coming by..I found a free transport

service to take them places until nada was strong again and didn't need

weekly visits to therapy, but they refused to use it..my fada was in the

navy during WWII..oh, and my wedding...I came SO close to eloping !! nada

took charge of everything..she controlled everything, and it was really HER

wedding not mine...the only thing I got to pick was the groom, and she would

have changed that if she could !! the flowers I picked were wrong, so she

changed them, the food I choose for the reception was wrong, so she changed

that..she picked were the reception would be, she picked everything...also

told me if I wore HER wedding dress, she would give me the money that was

left over from all the corners she was making...naturally I never got ANY

money !! and she refused to let me have the wedding dress...it's HERS not

mine !! Your fada sounds like mine...he doesn't defend his kids, he doesn't

defend himself..

Jackie

Jackie,

You must be my long lost sister! i am the only daughter and my fada, who is

a Vietnam Veteran, fought long and hard for many years overseas to protect

and defend his country. However, on the homefront, he is a complete whimp

who is in complete submission to my nada. When she rages at me, he does

nothing but sit there and take it. Then, when she is done with me, she turns

to him and he STILL doesn't defend himself. His excuse? " I just can't say

anything to her. " He plays both ends of the fence by telling me what a

horrible person she is, but God only knows what he says to my nada when she

rages and splits on me and Im the devil!

The night before my wedding, I spent the night at my parent's house. My soon

to be husband was getting together with his groomsmen to discuss the limo

arrangements and timing for the photographer. Needless to say, it turned

into a little party. He called me make sure this was okay with me and

assured me that it wasn't going to last long. I thought it was fine and told

him to make sure he was at the church at a certain time so we don't bump

into each other (bad luck!!) My nada abhored this idea and raged at me all

night about it. When I finally had enough, I went into the guest room and

locked the door. She opened with a spare key she had and continued to rage

at me. What was my fada doing? In bed watching the whole thing happen.

I just remember that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of

the problem. He is definitely part of the problem and just as responsible

for the behavior as she is.

AJ

[Guest guest]

Hi ..

I guess what upsets me is he KNOWS what she's like and has done and is

capable of doing, and CHOOSES to do nothing.. I think it was easier for me

when I thought he had no clue...but knowing he knows what she does to me,

it's like he's saying it's OK that she does this to me, him, the family,

since he never stands up for me or tries to stop her... I'll have to look

into that book :-)

Jackie

And Jackie, I know you are hurt that your fada defends her and goes back

into denial, but what I wouldn't give to hear some validation come out of my

fada's mouth...just once. But I never will.

My counselor told me to read " Children of the Self-Absorbed. " It arrived

the other day, I hope to find some time this weekend to start reading it.

[Guest guest]

A few years ago, I asked my 80 year old nada why she didn't come to my defense

when my dad was beating me. She paused and then had the audacity to say " where

was I? I don't remember any of that happening " . I cried, YOU were RIGHT THERE!

After a few minutes of us exchanging our versions of my childhood, she just shut

down. I cried for weeks and then got really angry. I realized then that my

mother was as much fault as my dad. In some ways, I understand why he raged at

me (only child). He certainly did not know she was BPD but he would have figured

something was not right with her. I really think they both had NPD. I arranged

for my nada to have a psychological test to determine if she had dementia. The

doctor asked me and my grand-daughter about my nada's behavior. My grand

daughter spoke right up and detailed the bizarre behaviors of both of her grand

parents. The doctor turned to me and asked " how did YOU turn out so normal? " All

I could say is that I never wanted to act like them! I have spent my whole adult

life trying to find out what caused them to act in such strange ways. I only

found BPD about 6 months ago and follow this site religioulsy. I hear my won

stories over and over. We have so much in common. I suspect my grown daughter

also has BPD and that's another story. I mentioned her grandnada to her while we

were visiting her last weekend. She said " mom, quit trying to diagnosed

everyone " . That was the end of that discussion!

>

> Jackie,

>

> Has it crossed your mind that your fada may be as disordered as your nada?

>

> The need to remain that deep in denial comes from somewhere.

>

> Ashana

>

>

> Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to

http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ashana,

no, I guess I haven't because when he's alone with me, he seems like such a

normal parent..until recently he, has never been mean..I'm guessing now he

has mild dementia ( he's 86) but while I was growing up, and he and I were

together , he seemed so caring and non judgmental...is suppose after being

with nada 24/7 since he retired, he may have turned into hr :-(

Jackie

Jackie,

Has it crossed your mind that your fada may be as disordered as your nada?

The need to remain that deep in denial comes from somewhere.

Ashana

[Guest guest]

,

Let us know how you like the book!

- gethappy

> > >

> > > thanks, BUT...he's gone back to being her number one fan again...so that

> > > really pissed me off..he KNOWS something's wrong with her behavior, he

feels

> > > regret for allowing her to treat us like she does, then he goes deep into

> > > denial and nothing changes, and he's back to behaving the way he always

> > > did...so I kind of think he's WORSE than she ( in a way) because he KNOWS

> > > she's wrong, but still supports her doing it.. and yes, my fada was like

> > > yours, he never tried to help us kids..I don't know what he was looking

> > > for..

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Jackie,

> > >

> > > I'm so glad your fada could admit that to you, because in my opinion, my

> > > fada is just as guilty as nada...whether by omission or commission. My

fada

> > > blended into the furniture while nada raged at me up one side and down the

> > > other...selfishly relieved he wasn't being targeted...he could defend his

> > > country but not his daughter and only child!

> > >

> > > What was your fada looking for...forgiveness so he can go to his grave

> > > having made peace with you about enabling his abusive wife?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You are so right about fadas knowing amd choosing!! I have basically been NC

with my nada for 2 years now. (Well, sometimes she remembers I exist and I get a

flurry of phone calls from her, but most of the time there are months of silence

- that's a whole other post) But I find the hardest thing to deal with by far

is the guilt my dad tries to make me feel. If it weren't for him we probably

would have been raised by wolves - seriously, my mother was too depressed or

angry to ever feed us, clothe us, wake us up in the morning, take us to school

etc. But he never stood up for me or my siblings when my nada started in on us.

I remember a few times when she would be raging at us for a long time he would

say weakly " oh, leave the kid alone " , but that was about it. This NC has made

me the bad guy, completely, despite everything.

But we had one good exchange - he finally did come to visit me this winter

after 3 years of not seeing me - and he asked me if I was going to make

arrangements to visit their home. I said no, he asked why, and I said " well,

one reason is because my mother told me never to set foot in her house again " .

He said " oh, she's your mother, you know how she talks " - and I said " I know

exactly how she talks, and i don't want to spend a week being talked to like

that " . I was pleased, it was the only time I have ever been able to react

immediately and honestly to his manipulations. Usually I spend weeks thinking

of what I might have said

S

>

>

>

> Hi ..

>

> I guess what upsets me is he KNOWS what she's like and has done and is

> capable of doing, and CHOOSES to do nothing.. I think it was easier for me

> when I thought he had no clue...but knowing he knows what she does to me,

> it's like he's saying it's OK that she does this to me, him, the family,

> since he never stands up for me or tries to stop her... I'll have to look

> into that book :-)

>

> Jackie

>

> And Jackie, I know you are hurt that your fada defends her and goes back

> into denial, but what I wouldn't give to hear some validation come out of my

> fada's mouth...just once. But I never will.

>

> My counselor told me to read " Children of the Self-Absorbed. " It arrived

> the other day, I hope to find some time this weekend to start reading it.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> But I find the hardest thing to deal with by far is the guilt my dad tries

> to make me feel.

yes, my fada has tried to make me feel guilty too..he didn't used to..and

just let me " fight it out " with nada, but now he's decided to jump in and

fight right alongside of her...

> This NC has made me the bad guy, completely, despite everything.

of course it has !! you have made it impossible for her to yell at you, to

blame you, to make you feel like a horrible person, and you aren't doing

what SHE wants you to do..shame on you !! LOL

> I said " well, one reason is because my mother told me never to set foot in

> her house again " . He said " oh, >she's your mother, you know how she

> talks " - and I said " I know exactly how she talks, and i don't want >to

> spend a week being talked to like that " .

GOOD FOR YOU !!! when my nada used to act up, and I'd get mad, fada would

say the same thing to me, then add, " you know she loves you " to try and

soften me up...one time I told him " ifshe did, she wouldn't talk to me like

that " !!

> I was pleased, it was the only time I have ever been able to react

> immediately and honestly to his >manipulations. Usually I spend weeks

> thinking of what I might have said

yeah, I always come up with great combackes, 6 hours AFTER the fact....

Jackie