Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 Ah, sweet Kayleigh. So many, many things are going to be news to you. (The WSJ is good, tho. The rich want to know the facts; they save the propaganda for the working slobs. Just be careful not to read the editorials.) Here is a reference on Friedman's opposition to the WOD, which he violently opposes (so does Bill Buckley). M. Friedman, " The Drug War as a Socialist Enterprise, " [yeah, Milton, NATIONAL socialist], Keynote address, Fifth International Conference on Drug Policy Reform, Washington DC, Nov 16, 1991. For your convenience, I found it on-line for you at www. usperspectives.org. Or just search for " friedman+drugs " and a whole raft of stuff by him on the topic will come up on your browser. Ain't technology great! (And do argue with me re Hitler and elections and all; boy, have I got the facts now, ma'am) ciao ---------- To: 12-step-freeegroups; 12-step-freeegroups Subject: Re: other Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:48 PM References? I guess the pro-WOD WSJ, which I read every day (more confirmation of that flag on my porch) wouldn't mention any anti-WOD views of their idol Milton Friedman, but if he is against the WOD it's news to me, and good news at that. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ..... But today, the 12-Step Movement is really the OG reborn, and the War >On Drugs is a government-orchestrated mass effort at repression and mind >control. Anyway, that is how a 'laissez faire' type like Milton Friedman >describes it.---------- >> From: Pupship@... >> To: 12-step-freeegroups >> Subject: Re: other >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:59 PM >> >> In a message dated 2/10/99 12:38:40 PM Central Standard Time, >> PAULDIENER@... writes: >> >> << - AA uses all the typical cultic techniques of attraction. >But >> there is an additional reason its particular " program " is successful. >The >> AA program is a totalitarian design. America is moving rapidly in a >> totalitarian direction. Hence, many who adopt the totalitarian >worldview >> of AA will find that, in contemporary America, " It works! " >> >> >> How is it a " totalitarian design, " and how is America moving in a >totalitarian >> direction? The fact that one person or another who was close to the >beginning >> of AA endorsed fascism doesn't make it so. It may lend itself easily to >> totalitarian thinking, but why couldn't it just as easily lend itself to >the >> laissez-faire? >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> One day scientists will discover a natural >> solution for hair loss. That day is here .... >> Hair Genesis http://offers./click/224/0 >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 Hi Kayleigh One of the best erudite criticisms of then anti-WoD position pointed out that both ppl on the Far Right and the Far Left are opposed to the WoD; when political extremes agree on something, it might be a sign it's a bad idea. I am aware of course, that many much more central ppl also oppose the WoD, so perhaps we have an across the board consensus?? Pete > References? I guess the pro-WOD WSJ, which I read every day (more confirmation of that flag on my porch) wouldn't mention any anti-WOD views of their idol Milton Friedman, but if he is against the WOD it's news to me, and good news at that. > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > > .... > > But today, the 12-Step Movement is really the OG reborn, and the War > >On Drugs is a government-orchestrated mass effort at repression and mind > >control. Anyway, that is how a 'laissez faire' type like Milton Friedman > >describes it.---------- > >> From: Pupship@... > >> To: 12-step-freeegroups > >> Subject: Re: other > >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:59 PM > >> > >> In a message dated 2/10/99 12:38:40 PM Central Standard Time, > >> PAULDIENER@... writes: > >> > >> << - AA uses all the typical cultic techniques of attraction. > >But > >> there is an additional reason its particular " program " is successful. > >The > >> AA program is a totalitarian design. America is moving rapidly in a > >> totalitarian direction. Hence, many who adopt the totalitarian > >worldview > >> of AA will find that, in contemporary America, " It works! " >> > >> > >> How is it a " totalitarian design, " and how is America moving in a > >totalitarian > >> direction? The fact that one person or another who was close to the > >beginning > >> of AA endorsed fascism doesn't make it so. It may lend itself easily to > >> totalitarian thinking, but why couldn't it just as easily lend itself to > >the > >> laissez-faire? > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> One day scientists will discover a natural > >> solution for hair loss. That day is here .... > >> Hair Genesis http://offers./click/224/0 > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 WHat is " WOD " ? In a message dated 2/17/99 1:53:09 AM Central Standard Time, PAULDIENER@... writes: << Ah, sweet Kayleigh. So many, many things are going to be news to you. (The WSJ is good, tho. The rich want to know the facts; they save the propaganda for the working slobs. Just be careful not to read the editorials.) Here is a reference on Friedman's opposition to the WOD, which he violently opposes (so does Bill Buckley). M. Friedman, " The Drug War as a Socialist Enterprise, " [yeah, Milton, NATIONAL socialist], Keynote address, Fifth International Conference on Drug Policy Reform, Washington DC, Nov 16, 1991. For your convenience, I found it on-line for you at www. usperspectives.org. Or just search for " friedman+drugs " and a whole raft of stuff by him on the topic will come up on your browser. Ain't technology great! (And do argue with me re Hitler and elections and all; boy, have I got the facts now, ma'am) ciao >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 In a message dated 2/17/99 4:46:20 PM Central Standard Time, tgperkins@... writes: << Milton Friedman is definently anti-WOD. In my opinion, the best anti-WOD book on the market is " Our Right to Drugs: The Case for a Free Market " by Szasz. Friedman is quoted on the dust jacket. He praises Szasz's book calling it " a profound and subtle analysis. " However, in the book Szasz criticizes Friedman's pro treatment position. Szasz knows treatment is a fakery. >> OH. " War on drugs. " I see. And " OG " is Oxford Group. And WSJ is Wall Street Journal, which I knew almost immediately. Next thing you know I'll be asking what POJ stands for! LOL ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 Nothing. I just made it up. (heeheehee...) In a message dated 2/17/99 6:17:57 PM Central Standard Time, awatt04@... writes: << What's POJ?! > > OH. " War on drugs. " I see. And " OG " is Oxford Group. And WSJ is Wall Street > Journal, which I knew almost immediately. Next thing you know I'll be asking > what POJ stands for! LOL >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 1999 Report Share Posted February 17, 1999 What's POJ?! > > OH. " War on drugs. " I see. And " OG " is Oxford Group. And WSJ is Wall Street > Journal, which I knew almost immediately. Next thing you know I'll be asking > what POJ stands for! LOL ---------- Pete Watts My childhood sent me Lemons: So I made Limerance PERSONALITY-DISORDERS SUPPORT LIST: http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 1999 Report Share Posted February 18, 1999 Hi, We gots an article of Friedman on our site at Http://www.BCRecovernet.org along with some by Canadians who are WOD ceasation oriented. Carol At 02:43 PM 2/17/99 PST, you wrote: >Kayleigh, > >Milton Friedman is definently anti-WOD. In my opinion, the best >anti-WOD book on the market is " Our Right to Drugs: The Case for a Free >Market " by Szasz. Friedman is quoted on the dust jacket. He >praises Szasz's book calling it " a profound and subtle analysis. " >However, in the book Szasz criticizes Friedman's pro treatment position. >Szasz knows treatment is a fakery. > >Tommy > > >>From 12-step-free-return-2014-tgperkins Tue Feb 16 21:49:59 1999 >>Received: from [209.185.96.154] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id >MHotMailB893A2CC58394D1017081D1B9609A0677134; Tue Feb 16 21:49:59 1999 >>Received: from [127.0.0.1] by md. with NNFMP; 17 Feb 1999 >05:47:55 -0000 >>Mailing-List: contact 12-step-free-owneregroups >>X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >>X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-12-step-freeegroups >>Received: (qmail 17824 invoked by uid 7770); 17 Feb 1999 05:48:32 -0000 >>Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (209.1.236.44) >> by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 1999 05:48:32 -0000 >>Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by my-dejanews.com; Tue Feb 16 >21:48:11 1999 >>To: 12-step-freeegroups, 12-step-freeegroups >>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:48:11 -0000 >> >>Message-ID: >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Cc: >>X-Sent-Mail: off >>X-Mailer: MailCity Service >>X-Sender-Ip: 199.178.136.84 >>Organization: Deja News Mail (http://www.my-dejanews.com:80) >>Subject: Re: other >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>References? I guess the pro-WOD WSJ, which I read every day (more >confirmation of that flag on my porch) wouldn't mention any anti-WOD >views of their idol Milton Friedman, but if he is against the WOD it's >news to me, and good news at that. >>--- >>Kayleigh >> >> Zz >> zZ >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >> >> >> >> >> >>.... >> >>But today, the 12-Step Movement is really the OG reborn, and the War >>>On Drugs is a government-orchestrated mass effort at repression and >mind >>>control. Anyway, that is how a 'laissez faire' type like Milton >Friedman >>>describes it.---------- >>>> From: Pupship@... >>>> To: 12-step-freeegroups >>>> Subject: Re: other >>>> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:59 PM >>>> >>>> In a message dated 2/10/99 12:38:40 PM Central Standard Time, >>>> PAULDIENER@... writes: >>>> >>>> << - AA uses all the typical cultic techniques of >attraction. >>>But >>>> there is an additional reason its particular " program " is >successful. >>>The >>>> AA program is a totalitarian design. America is moving rapidly in >a >>>> totalitarian direction. Hence, many who adopt the totalitarian >>>worldview >>>> of AA will find that, in contemporary America, " It works! " >> >>>> >>>> How is it a " totalitarian design, " and how is America moving in a >>>totalitarian >>>> direction? The fact that one person or another who was close to the >>>beginning >>>> of AA endorsed fascism doesn't make it so. It may lend itself easily >to >>>> totalitarian thinking, but why couldn't it just as easily lend >itself to >>>the >>>> laissez-faire? >>>> >>>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> One day scientists will discover a natural >>>> solution for hair loss. That day is here .... >>>> Hair Genesis http://offers./click/224/0 >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 1999 Report Share Posted February 18, 1999 wrote: Original Article: /list/12-step-free/?start=2560 > Hi, We gots an article of Friedman on our site at > Http://www.BCRecovernet.org along with some by Canadians who are WOD > ceasation oriented. Carol > Hey Carol, I'm up working in Prince Rupert until Monday Feb 22 AM then back to town. I'm working on a fact sheet about ASAM, the local ASAM members and their ethics policy and of course the complaints dept., how to flie and who to file it with. Peele is also doing some stuff on it for me. I'm also working on some stuff about EAP accreditation to be put up on the site. 's said he's out of town fro a few days. If you want to e-mail me I'm at pilot05@... but only until early Monday morning. Has been to any meetings lately? I'd still be interested on her use of RR as an alternative to AA to gain custody. Keep plugging the site!! Lawrie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 1999 Report Share Posted February 19, 1999 It'd be interesting to know what you mean by far right and far left, so that we had some baselines, and perhaps could determine whether we agree on what those positions are. I'm honestly not aware of centrists who think the WOD is a bad idea. In retrospect, it shouldn't surprise me that a far right economist is against the WOD. I don't even know what my position on these things are, in terms of right and left, I only know that I am against the WOD. As I read today somewhere, before drugs were illegal, we had no drug problems. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Hi Kayleigh > >One of the best erudite criticisms of then anti-WoD position pointed out th= >at=20 >both ppl on the Far Right and the Far Left are opposed to the WoD; when=20 >political extremes agree on something, it might be a sign it's a bad idea. = >I am=20 >aware of course, that many much more central ppl also oppose the WoD, so=20 >perhaps we have an across the board consensus?? > >Pete > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:48:11 -0000 Kayleigh S w= >rote: > >> References? I guess the pro-WOD WSJ, which I read every day (more confir= >mation of that flag on my porch) wouldn't mention any anti-WOD views of the= >ir idol Milton Friedman, but if he is against the WOD it's news to me, and = >good news at that. >> --- >> Kayleigh >>=20 >> Zz >> zZ >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> >>=20 >> .... >>=20 >> But today, the 12-Step Movement is really the OG reborn, and the War >> >On Drugs is a government-orchestrated mass effort at repression and mind >> >control. Anyway, that is how a 'laissez faire' type like Milton Friedma= >n >> >describes it.---------- >> >> From: Pupship@... >> >> To: 12-step-freeegroups >> >> Subject: Re: other >> >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:59 PM >> >>=20 >> >> In a message dated 2/10/99 12:38:40 PM Central Standard Time, >> >> PAULDIENER@... writes: >> >>=20 >> >> << - AA uses all the typical cultic techniques of attraction.= >=20 >> >But >> >> there is an additional reason its particular " program " is successful.= >=20 >> >The >> >> AA program is a totalitarian design. America is moving rapidly in a >> >> totalitarian direction. Hence, many who adopt the totalitarian >> >worldview >> >> of AA will find that, in contemporary America, " It works! " >> >> >>=20 >> >> How is it a " totalitarian design, " and how is America moving in a >> >totalitarian >> >> direction? The fact that one person or another who was close to the >> >beginning >> >> of AA endorsed fascism doesn't make it so. It may lend itself easily t= >o >> >> totalitarian thinking, but why couldn't it just as easily lend itself = >to >> >the >> >> laissez-faire? >> >>=20 >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= >-- >> >> One day scientists will discover a natural >> >> solution for hair loss. That day is here .... >> >> Hair Genesis http://offers./click/224/0 >> >>=20 >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 1999 Report Share Posted February 19, 1999 Can you tell me why Friedman is anti-WOD and pro-treatment? --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Kayleigh, > >Milton Friedman is definently anti-WOD. In my opinion, the best >anti-WOD book on the market is " Our Right to Drugs: The Case for a Free >Market " by Szasz. Friedman is quoted on the dust jacket. He >praises Szasz's book calling it " a profound and subtle analysis. " >However, in the book Szasz criticizes Friedman's pro treatment position. >Szasz knows treatment is a fakery. > >Tommy > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 1999 Report Share Posted February 20, 1999 Kayleigh S wrote: > > It'd be interesting to know what you mean by far right and far left, so that we had some baselines, and perhaps could determine whether we agree on what those positions are. I'm honestly not aware of centrists who think the WOD is a bad idea. > > In retrospect, it shouldn't surprise me that a far right economist is against the WOD. Me again, Sorry to interrupt, but Milton Friedman is vehemently opposed to the WOD, as he is opposed to any interference with the forces of the free market. Tina B. I don't even know what my position on these things are, in terms of right and left, I only know that I am against the WOD. As I read today somewhere, before drugs were illegal, we had no drug problems. > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > >Hi Kayleigh > > > >One of the best erudite criticisms of then anti-WoD position pointed out th= > >at=20 > >both ppl on the Far Right and the Far Left are opposed to the WoD; when=20 > >political extremes agree on something, it might be a sign it's a bad idea. = > >I am=20 > >aware of course, that many much more central ppl also oppose the WoD, so=20 > >perhaps we have an across the board consensus?? > > > >Pete > > > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:48:11 -0000 Kayleigh S w= > >rote: > > > >> References? I guess the pro-WOD WSJ, which I read every day (more confir= > >mation of that flag on my porch) wouldn't mention any anti-WOD views of the= > >ir idol Milton Friedman, but if he is against the WOD it's news to me, and = > >good news at that. > >> --- > >> Kayleigh > >>=20 > >> Zz > >> zZ > >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ > >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> > >>=20 > >> .... > >>=20 > >> But today, the 12-Step Movement is really the OG reborn, and the War > >> >On Drugs is a government-orchestrated mass effort at repression and mind > >> >control. Anyway, that is how a 'laissez faire' type like Milton Friedma= > >n > >> >describes it.---------- > >> >> From: Pupship@... > >> >> To: 12-step-freeegroups > >> >> Subject: Re: other > >> >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:59 PM > >> >>=20 > >> >> In a message dated 2/10/99 12:38:40 PM Central Standard Time, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 1999 Report Share Posted February 22, 1999 I endorse laissez-faire (though not " at all costs, " it would require a long careful process to reach total laissez-faire in a civilized manner, though it would in the long run be best for everybody) but object to being called " right wing, " because of the narrow and pejorative nature of the term. I am far from racist, opposite of " totalitarian, " and certainly not a sociopath. Not that I was offended, I just feel talkative at the moment. Anyway, I guess that makes me an anti-WOD Laissez-Faerie. A 12-step disgruntled Laissez-Fonzi. A mouth- to-mouth Laissez-Football. A papparazi Laissez-FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF In a message dated 2/22/99 11:15:25 PM Central Standard Time, kayleighs@my- dejanews.com writes: << In light of your explanation, I guess I am an anti-WoD centrist. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Hello Kayleigh > >very briefly, I would say there are two kinds of Far Left, communist and >anarchist. There are also two kinds of Far Right - laissez faire capitalism >and totalitarianism, (which can be both capitalist or communist) - hence >these terms are often ambiguous. > >Extreme right-wing groups in the US can be separatist both racially and from >the Federal government - hence they may not seem totalitarian, but in fact >would very likely be totalitarian within their own community and endorse the >WoD. > >I'm not too aware of many centrists who are anti-WoD myself, but I >postulated some because I didnt wnat to suggest that anti-WoD listmembers >are all political extremists of one stripe or another! >Pete > >On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 03:39:32 -0000 Kayleigh S >wrote: > >> It'd be interesting to know what you mean by far right and far left, so >that we had some baselines, and perhaps could determine whether we agree on >what those positions are. I'm honestly not aware of centrists who think the >WOD is a bad idea. > > In retrospect, it shouldn't surprise me that a far >right economist is against the WOD. I don't even know what my position on >these things are, in terms of right and left, I only know that I am against >the WOD. As I read today somewhere, before drugs were illegal, we had no >drug problems. > --- > Kayleigh > >> Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ >;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >> > > > >> >Hi Kayleigh > > > >One of the best erudite criticisms of then anti-WoD >position pointed out th= > >at=20 > >both ppl on the Far Right and the Far >Left are opposed to the WoD; when=20 > >political extremes agree on >something, it might be a sign it's a bad idea. = > >I am=20 > >aware of >course, that many much more central ppl also oppose the WoD, so=20 > >>perhaps we have an across the board consensus?? > > > >Pete >> > > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:48:11 -0000 Kayleigh S > w= > >rote: > > > >> References? I guess the >pro-WOD WSJ, which I read every day (more confir= > >mation of that flag on >my porch) wouldn't mention any anti-WOD views of the= > >ir idol Milton >Friedman, but if he is against the WOD it's news to me, and = > >good news >at that. > >> --- > >> Kayleigh >> >>=20 > >> Zz > >> zZ > >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > >> >'---''(_/--' `-'\_) > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 >> >> > >>=20 > >> .... > >>>=20 > >> But today, the 12-Step Movement is really the OG reborn, and the >War > >> >On Drugs is a government-orchestrated mass effort at repression >and mind > >> >control. Anyway, that is how a 'laissez faire' type like >Milton Friedma= > >n > >> >describes it.---------- > >> >> From: >Pupship@... > >> >> To: 12-step-freeegroups > >> >> Subject: > Re: other > >> >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:59 >PM > >> >>=20 > >> >> In a message dated 2/10/99 12:38:40 PM Central >Standard Time, > >> >> PAULDIENER@... writes: > >> >>=20 > >> >> << > - AA uses all the typical cultic techniques of attraction.= > >=20 > >>> >But > >> >> there is an additional reason its particular " program " is >successful.= > >=20 > >> >The > >> >> AA program is a totalitarian design. >America is moving rapidly in a > >> >> totalitarian direction. Hence, many >who adopt the totalitarian > >> >worldview > >> >> of AA will find that, in >contemporary America, " It works! " >> > >> >>=20 > >> >> How is it a > " totalitarian design, " and how is America moving in a > >> >totalitarian > >>> >> direction? The fact that one person or another who was close to the > >>> >beginning > >> >> of AA endorsed fascism doesn't make it so. It may lend >itself easily t= > >o > >> >> totalitarian thinking, but why couldn't it >just as easily lend itself = > >to > >> >the > >> >> laissez-faire? >> >> >>=20 > >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------= > >>-- > >> >> One day scientists will discover a natural > >> >> solution for >hair loss. That day is here .... > >> >> Hair Genesis >http://offers./click/224/0 > >> >>=20 > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 1999 Report Share Posted February 22, 1999 In light of your explanation, I guess I am an anti-WoD centrist. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Hello Kayleigh > >very briefly, I would say there are two kinds of Far Left, communist and >anarchist. There are also two kinds of Far Right - laissez faire capitalism >and totalitarianism, (which can be both capitalist or communist) - hence >these terms are often ambiguous. > >Extreme right-wing groups in the US can be separatist both racially and from >the Federal government - hence they may not seem totalitarian, but in fact >would very likely be totalitarian within their own community and endorse the >WoD. > >I'm not too aware of many centrists who are anti-WoD myself, but I >postulated some because I didnt wnat to suggest that anti-WoD listmembers >are all political extremists of one stripe or another! >Pete > >On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 03:39:32 -0000 Kayleigh S >wrote: > >> It'd be interesting to know what you mean by far right and far left, so >that we had some baselines, and perhaps could determine whether we agree on >what those positions are. I'm honestly not aware of centrists who think the >WOD is a bad idea. > > In retrospect, it shouldn't surprise me that a far >right economist is against the WOD. I don't even know what my position on >these things are, in terms of right and left, I only know that I am against >the WOD. As I read today somewhere, before drugs were illegal, we had no >drug problems. > --- > Kayleigh > >> Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ >;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >> > > > >> >Hi Kayleigh > > > >One of the best erudite criticisms of then anti-WoD >position pointed out th= > >at=20 > >both ppl on the Far Right and the Far >Left are opposed to the WoD; when=20 > >political extremes agree on >something, it might be a sign it's a bad idea. = > >I am=20 > >aware of >course, that many much more central ppl also oppose the WoD, so=20 > >>perhaps we have an across the board consensus?? > > > >Pete >> > > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:48:11 -0000 Kayleigh S > w= > >rote: > > > >> References? I guess the >pro-WOD WSJ, which I read every day (more confir= > >mation of that flag on >my porch) wouldn't mention any anti-WOD views of the= > >ir idol Milton >Friedman, but if he is against the WOD it's news to me, and = > >good news >at that. > >> --- > >> Kayleigh >> >>=20 > >> Zz > >> zZ > >> |\ z _,,,---,,_ >> >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > >> >'---''(_/--' `-'\_) > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 >> >> > >>=20 > >> .... > >>>=20 > >> But today, the 12-Step Movement is really the OG reborn, and the >War > >> >On Drugs is a government-orchestrated mass effort at repression >and mind > >> >control. Anyway, that is how a 'laissez faire' type like >Milton Friedma= > >n > >> >describes it.---------- > >> >> From: >Pupship@... > >> >> To: 12-step-freeegroups > >> >> Subject: > Re: other > >> >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:59 >PM > >> >>=20 > >> >> In a message dated 2/10/99 12:38:40 PM Central >Standard Time, > >> >> PAULDIENER@... writes: > >> >>=20 > >> >> << > - AA uses all the typical cultic techniques of attraction.= > >=20 > >>> >But > >> >> there is an additional reason its particular " program " is >successful.= > >=20 > >> >The > >> >> AA program is a totalitarian design. >America is moving rapidly in a > >> >> totalitarian direction. Hence, many >who adopt the totalitarian > >> >worldview > >> >> of AA will find that, in >contemporary America, " It works! " >> > >> >>=20 > >> >> How is it a > " totalitarian design, " and how is America moving in a > >> >totalitarian > >>> >> direction? The fact that one person or another who was close to the > >>> >beginning > >> >> of AA endorsed fascism doesn't make it so. It may lend >itself easily t= > >o > >> >> totalitarian thinking, but why couldn't it >just as easily lend itself = > >to > >> >the > >> >> laissez-faire? >> >> >>=20 > >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------= > >>-- > >> >> One day scientists will discover a natural > >> >> solution for >hair loss. That day is here .... > >> >> Hair Genesis >http://offers./click/224/0 > >> >>=20 > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 1999 Report Share Posted February 25, 1999 Kayleigh, I,m not sure what is going on here. Your message dated Feb. 20 just popped up on my list today, Feb. 26. There are other things that I,m curious about, such as reading messages that reference messages I.ve never seen. If anyone has addressed any question to me please send again. I don't know why Friedman or anyone else except myself believes what they believe. I do know that many of the critics of the war on drugs are pro treatment, and that is a bit scarey to me. In about another week or so I am going to post " The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment " by C.S. . It is remarkably brilliant considering it was written almost exactly 50 years ago. Szasz quoted from it in " The Theology of Medicine " , and Breggin quoted from it in " Toxic Psychiatry " , but he cites the wrong date. died in 1963 on the same day President Kennedy died. For those of you who are not familiar with , he was the character whom Anthoy Hopkins portrayed in the movie " Shadowlands. " The article can be found in a book called " God in the Dock " which is a collection of essays by . This is the article from which " The new Nero will approach us with the silky manners of a doctor " comes. I can't get to a computer every day but honestly I didn't get your message until today. Tommy >From 12-step-free-return-2145-tgperkins=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Fri Feb 19 20:12:13 1999 >Received: from [127.0.0.1] by md. with NNFMP; 20 Feb 1999 04:10:24 -0000 >Mailing-List: contact 12-step-free-owneregroups >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >X-Duplicate: Duplicate >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-12-step-freeegroups >Received: (qmail 27208 invoked by uid 7770); 20 Feb 1999 04:06:41 -0000 >Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (209.1.236.44) > by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 04:06:41 -0000 >Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by my-dejanews.com; Fri Feb 19 20:06:18 1999 >To: 12-step-freeegroups, 12-step-freeegroups >Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:06:19 -0000 > >Message-ID: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Cc: >X-Sent-Mail: off >X-Mailer: MailCity Service >X-Sender-Ip: 199.178.136.105 >Organization: Deja News Mail (http://www.my-dejanews.com:80) >Subject: Re: other >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Can you tell me why Friedman is anti-WOD and pro-treatment? >--- >Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > >>Kayleigh, >> >>Milton Friedman is definently anti-WOD. In my opinion, the best >>anti-WOD book on the market is " Our Right to Drugs: The Case for a Free >>Market " by Szasz. Friedman is quoted on the dust jacket. He >>praises Szasz's book calling it " a profound and subtle analysis. " >>However, in the book Szasz criticizes Friedman's pro treatment position. >>Szasz knows treatment is a fakery. >> >>Tommy >> >> > > > >-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Recipes, relationships. Horoscopes, health. >Fashion, fitness. If it's about women, it's at HomeArts.com. >http://offers./click/212/0 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 1999 Report Share Posted February 25, 1999 Kayleigh, I,m not sure what is going on here. Your message dated Feb. 20 just popped up on my list today, Feb. 26. There are other things that I,m curious about, such as reading messages that reference messages I.ve never seen. If anyone has addressed any question to me please send again. I don't know why Friedman or anyone else except myself believes what they believe. I do know that many of the critics of the war on drugs are pro treatment, and that is a bit scarey to me. In about another week or so I am going to post " The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment " by C.S. . It is remarkably brilliant considering it was written almost exactly 50 years ago. Szasz quoted from it in " The Theology of Medicine " , and Breggin quoted from it in " Toxic Psychiatry " , but he cites the wrong date. died in 1963 on the same day President Kennedy died. For those of you who are not familiar with , he was the character whom Anthoy Hopkins portrayed in the movie " Shadowlands. " The article can be found in a book called " God in the Dock " which is a collection of essays by . This is the article from which " The new Nero will approach us with the silky manners of a doctor " comes. I can't get to a computer every day but honestly I didn't get your message until today. Tommy >From 12-step-free-return-2145-tgperkins=hotmail.comreturns (DOT) Fri Feb 19 20:12:13 1999 >Received: from [127.0.0.1] by md. with NNFMP; 20 Feb 1999 04:10:24 -0000 >Mailing-List: contact 12-step-free-owneregroups >X-Mailing-List: 12-step-freeegroups >X-URL: /list/12-step-free/ >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >X-Duplicate: Duplicate >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-12-step-freeegroups >Received: (qmail 27208 invoked by uid 7770); 20 Feb 1999 04:06:41 -0000 >Received: from mcfs.whowhere.com (209.1.236.44) > by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 04:06:41 -0000 >Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by my-dejanews.com; Fri Feb 19 20:06:18 1999 >To: 12-step-freeegroups, 12-step-freeegroups >Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:06:19 -0000 > >Message-ID: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Cc: >X-Sent-Mail: off >X-Mailer: MailCity Service >X-Sender-Ip: 199.178.136.105 >Organization: Deja News Mail (http://www.my-dejanews.com:80) >Subject: Re: other >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Can you tell me why Friedman is anti-WOD and pro-treatment? >--- >Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > >>Kayleigh, >> >>Milton Friedman is definently anti-WOD. In my opinion, the best >>anti-WOD book on the market is " Our Right to Drugs: The Case for a Free >>Market " by Szasz. Friedman is quoted on the dust jacket. He >>praises Szasz's book calling it " a profound and subtle analysis. " >>However, in the book Szasz criticizes Friedman's pro treatment position. >>Szasz knows treatment is a fakery. >> >>Tommy >> >> > > > >-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Recipes, relationships. Horoscopes, health. >Fashion, fitness. If it's about women, it's at HomeArts.com. >http://offers./click/212/0 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 1999 Report Share Posted February 26, 1999 In a message dated 2/26/99 9:00:12 AM Central Standard Time, tgperkins@... writes: << died in 1963 on the same day President Kennedy died.>>> I didn't know that. << For those of you who are not familiar with , he was the character whom Anthoy Hopkins portrayed in the movie " Shadowlands. " >> Didn't know that, either. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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