Re: surgery update

June 9, 2000

Marcie,

Sorry to hear your news. I know actually what you mean about people not

understanding what is going on inside you. It is not the type of condition

that is easily describes and as we all know, unless you've been through it,

you can NEVER understand it! Even the doctors don't fully understand it.

How else could we be misdiagnosed so often?

Try your best to move forward and try to find some comfort in the fact that

you did everything you could to " fix " this thing called Ashermans and maybe

now you can feel some relief that the surgeries are over. Whatever life

brings you, I wish you happiness and fulfillment.

Celeste Devine

June 9, 2000

Hi Marcie this is O. I am so sorry to hear about your surgery

today. The same thing happened to me the doctor punctured a hole in my

uterus. I didn't find out until I went to Toronto to have surgery the

doctor in Ottawa didn't have the decency to tell me. Pretty sad eh? When

the doctor told me about it I was just as shocked as he was, because of

the hole he could not finish the surgery. When he went in and explored

he could not believe how badly damaged my uterus was. He says he has

never seen a uterus that badly damaged before and he is a specialist in

this field. It is pretty scary to think that one doctor can mess you up

so badly, we put all our trust in these doctors.

I know exactly what you are saying when people don't understand what we

are going through. like I said before unless you have gone through it

you have know idea what it is like.

I ended up getting pregnant about 2 months after the doctor performed

the surgery but because the uterus was so damaged I could not carry the

baby full term and ended up having a miscarriage at 3 months. i then had

to have a hysterectomy because the doctor said that there was no way he

could do a D & C because there was nothing there for him to scrape. My

sister in law said that she would carry a child for us if that is what

we wanted but I need to get over my hysterectomy first before I can

think about it.

It is natural to feel sorry for yourself don't feel bad about that.

Sometimes we need to do that, it is not being selfish we just have to

think about ourselves once in awhile. Nobody else understands what we

are going through so we have to feel sorry for ourselves. I too count my

blessings everyday that I have my son. When i had my hysterectomy it was

so hard cause I was so depressed , everybody kept telling me at least

you have one child and I would say yes I know and I am thankful for him,

but at the same time I was very angry and hurt, I just kept thinking

somebody else did this to me I didn't do it. Boy did I ever feel sorry

for myself then. Any ways enough about me I just wanted to say good luck

and I hope everything works out for you. Maybe you should try the

procedure again you never know. when is your son going to be three?

mine is going to be three August 1. Good Luck and take care.

Love O

Marcie Ross wrote:

> Hello all,

>

> (I had my first hysteroscopy/laparoscopy today)

> Well I did not have a successful surgery. They had given me plenty of

> general anesthesia for the surgery she had planned, and she had looked

> around with the hysteroscope and laparoscope, but as soon as she tried

> to start removing the adhesions the uterus wall was so weak and

> fragile she just punctured thru the uterine wall so she had to stop

> the procedure. So It was quite brief. She took some pictures and

> could see the scarring was full thickness in areas. The uterus looks

> bicorticate because the major scarring is right in the middle, so it

> would be difficult for a baby to reach full term. She said we could

> try the procedure again in 6 weeks or so or consider other options,

> like ttc, adoption, or surrogusy. She didn't think another procedure

> would work any better than today's did, but maybe it would. She said

> pg would be very high risk, with risk of mc needing DandC then we'd be

> back where we started. As you all know The biggest risk is called

> placenta acreta (grows into the uterine very high risk and potentially

> dangerous to my health. I would have to really devote my life to the

> pg, and round up alot of support to help with Gabe. ?Maybe i should

> wait til he's older like in school (he's almost 3 now ) ? I am so

> thankful I have him , I guess I must count my blessings but it is more

> natural for me to feel sorry for myself!! Sigh....

>

> Physically, I can't believe how fine I feel. The belly feels tender

> probably due to the gas they put in for the procedure. I wasn't

> nauseated at all (the nurse said I was given something before I woke

> up). Now everyone's going to be asking how it went, I should just

> copy the above paragraph to hand out! Do you gals feel like people

> can't quite grasp the severity of Ashermans, and they look at you like

> you're making it all up? I get that feeling a lot.

>

> Well I hope you're all doing well and have a nice weekend, ok!

>

> Love,

> Marcie

> mommy to age 2 3/4, Sophie and Isabelle twins b/d at 23 weeks

> in 10/99.....developed ashermans after their retained placenta

>

June 10, 2000

Marcie, I'm deeply sorry, deeply.

" Much worse " is death, I believe. Is that what she meant? A mommy is more

important to Gabe than a sibling. I'm sorry. Please make sure you don't risk

your life.

After my failed surgery, when people called to ask how it went, I kept hearing

my husband telling people on the phone it was " fine " . I wanted to wring his

neck, it was NOT FINE! So yes, people don't grasp the severity of Ashermans.

They can't see your heart bleeding on the ground because the desire to parent is

so variable and so personal. We understand Marcie. We are all so sorry.

Love,

Jane

surgery update

Hello all,

(I had my first hysteroscopy/laparoscopy today)

Well I did not have a successful surgery. They had given me plenty of general

anesthesia for the surgery she had planned, and she had looked around with the

hysteroscope and laparoscope, but as soon as she tried to start removing the

adhesions the uterus wall was so weak and fragile she just punctured thru the

uterine wall so she had to stop the procedure. So It was quite brief. She took

some pictures and could see the scarring was full thickness in areas. The uterus

looks bicorticate because the major scarring is right in the middle, so it would

be difficult for a baby to reach full term. She said we could try the procedure

again in 6 weeks or so or consider other options, like ttc, adoption, or

surrogusy. She didn't think another procedure would work any better than today's

did, but maybe it would. She said pg would be very high risk, with risk of mc

needing DandC then we'd be back where we started. As you all know The biggest

risk is called pla! centa acreta (grows into the uterine wall and sometimes into

the peritoneal area/bowels) which could lead to hemmoraging, hysterectomy, or

" much worse. " ??????? What could be worse!!!! She is very caring but did not

want to paint a rosy picture but she said there is a slim chance of a viable

pregnancy. (Prior to ashermans I already had incompetent cervix and preterm

labor complications related to pg). Since she didn't do anything to the lining

I don't have the balloon catheter or hormones. I can't believe I'm not freaking

out, I'm sure it will all sink in later. She did offer a RE consult, but like

she said all they focus on is getting pg which is not really our problem but

maybe they would have some more insight. Also she said they do more of the

surrogucy thing. I have a 2 week post op appt., when we can further discuss

options. At this point surrogucy seems rather extreme at this point, but maybe

i'd change my mind. & ! nbsp; My gut feeling is to try again for pregnancy knowing

it is very high risk and potentially dangerous to my health. I would have to

really devote my life to the pg, and round up alot of support to help with Gabe.

?Maybe i should wait til he's older like in school (he's almost 3 now ) ? I am

so thankful I have him , I guess I must count my blessings but it is more

natural for me to feel sorry for myself!! Sigh....

Physically, I can't believe how fine I feel. The belly feels tender probably

due to the gas they put in for the procedure. I wasn't nauseated at all (the

nurse said I was given something before I woke up). Now everyone's going to be

asking how it went, I should just copy the above paragraph to hand out! Do you

gals feel like people can't quite grasp the severity of Ashermans, and they look

at you like you're making it all up? I get that feeling a lot.

Well I hope you're all doing well and have a nice weekend, ok!

Love,

Marcie

mommy to age 2 3/4, Sophie and Isabelle twins b/d at 23 weeks in

10/99.....developed ashermans after their retained placenta

June 10, 2000

Marcie,

I join everyone else when I say that I'm so sorry for what has happened at

your appointment. It always seems to be a sad moment when someone else on

this site has had a negative or unsuccessful response to surgery. I hope

you are doing okay and my thoughts are with you.

Debbie

At 05:22 PM 6/9/00 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello all,

>

>(I had my first hysteroscopy/laparoscopy today)

>Well I did not have a successful surgery. They had given me plenty of

general anesthesia for the surgery she had planned, and she had looked

around with the hysteroscope and laparoscope, but as soon as she tried to

start removing the adhesions the uterus wall was so weak and fragile she

just punctured thru the uterine wall so she had to stop the procedure. So

It was quite brief. She took some pictures and could see the scarring was

full thickness in areas. The uterus looks bicorticate because the major

scarring is right in the middle, so it would be difficult for a baby to

reach full term. She said we could try the procedure again in 6 weeks or so

or consider other options, like ttc, adoption, or surrogusy. She didn't

think another procedure would work any better than today's did, but maybe

it would. She said pg would be very high risk, with risk of mc needing

DandC then we'd be back where we started. As you all know The biggest risk

is called placenta acreta (grows into the uterine wall and sometimes into

the peritoneal area/bowels) which could lead to hemmoraging, hysterectomy,

or " much worse. " ??????? What could be worse!!!! She is very caring but

did not want to paint a rosy picture but she said there is a slim chance of

a viable pregnancy. (Prior to ashermans I already had incompetent cervix

and preterm labor complications related to pg). Since she didn't do

anything to the lining I don't have the balloon catheter or hormones. I

can't believe I'm not freaking out, I'm sure it will all sink in later.

She did offer a RE consult, but like she said all they focus on is getting

pg which is not really our problem but maybe they would have some more

insight. Also she said they do more of the surrogucy thing. I have a 2

week post op appt., when we can further discuss options. At this point

surrogucy seems rather extreme at this point, but maybe i'd change my mind.

My gut feeling is to try again for pregnancy knowing it is very high risk

and potentially dangerous to my health. I would have to really

>Physically, I can't believe how fine I feel. The belly feels tender

probably due to the gas they put in for the procedure. I wasn't nauseated

at all (the nurse said I was given something before I woke up). Now

everyone's going to be asking how it went, I should just copy the above

paragraph to hand out! Do you gals feel like people can't quite grasp the

severity of Ashermans, and they look at you like you're making it all up?

I get that feeling a lot.

>

>Well I hope you're all doing well and have a nice weekend, ok!

>

>Love,

>Marcie

>mommy to age 2 3/4, Sophie and Isabelle twins b/d at 23 weeks in

10/99.....developed ashermans after their retained placenta

>

June 10, 2000

O,

I may sound really ignorant, but when you have a hysterectomy - is it only

the uterus that is removed? I am so sorry for what happened to you too.

How are you doing with things at the moment? It wasn't too long ago that

you had your hysterectomy was it? Just a few months or so? I hope you are

doing better physically but also psychologicallly. Take care.

Debbie

At 10:51 PM 6/9/00 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi Marcie this is O. I am so sorry to hear about your surgery

>today. The same thing happened to me the doctor punctured a hole in my

>uterus. I didn't find out until I went to Toronto to have surgery the

>doctor in Ottawa didn't have the decency to tell me. Pretty sad eh? When

>the doctor told me about it I was just as shocked as he was, because of

>the hole he could not finish the surgery. When he went in and explored

>he could not believe how badly damaged my uterus was. He says he has

>never seen a uterus that badly damaged before and he is a specialist in

>this field. It is pretty scary to think that one doctor can mess you up

>so badly, we put all our trust in these doctors.

>

>I know exactly what you are saying when people don't understand what we

>are going through. like I said before unless you have gone through it

>you have know idea what it is like.

>

>I ended up getting pregnant about 2 months after the doctor performed

>the surgery but because the uterus was so damaged I could not carry the

>baby full term and ended up having a miscarriage at 3 months. i then had

>to have a hysterectomy because the doctor said that there was no way he

>could do a D & C because there was nothing there for him to scrape. My

>sister in law said that she would carry a child for us if that is what

>we wanted but I need to get over my hysterectomy first before I can

>think about it.

>

>It is natural to feel sorry for yourself don't feel bad about that.

>Sometimes we need to do that, it is not being selfish we just have to

>think about ourselves once in awhile. Nobody else understands what we

>are going through so we have to feel sorry for ourselves. I too count my

>blessings everyday that I have my son. When i had my hysterectomy it was

>so hard cause I was so depressed , everybody kept telling me at least

>you have one child and I would say yes I know and I am thankful for him,

>but at the same time I was very angry and hurt, I just kept thinking

>somebody else did this to me I didn't do it. Boy did I ever feel sorry

>for myself then. Any ways enough about me I just wanted to say good luck

>and I hope everything works out for you. Maybe you should try the

>procedure again you never know. when is your son going to be three?

>mine is going to be three August 1. Good Luck and take care.

>

>Love O

>

>Marcie Ross wrote:

>

>> Hello all,

>>

>> (I had my first hysteroscopy/laparoscopy today)

>> Well I did not have a successful surgery. They had given me plenty of

>> general anesthesia for the surgery she had planned, and she had looked

>> around with the hysteroscope and laparoscope, but as soon as she tried

>> to start removing the adhesions the uterus wall was so weak and

>> fragile she just punctured thru the uterine wall so she had to stop

>> the procedure. So It was quite brief. She took some pictures and

>> could see the scarring was full thickness in areas. The uterus looks

>> bicorticate because the major scarring is right in the middle, so it

>> would be difficult for a baby to reach full term. She said we could

>> try the procedure again in 6 weeks or so or consider other options,

>> like ttc, adoption, or surrogusy. She didn't think another procedure

>> would work any better than today's did, but maybe it would. She said

>> pg would be very high risk, with risk of mc needing DandC then we'd be

>> back where we started. As you all know The biggest risk is called

>> placenta acreta (grows into the uterine very high risk and potentially

>> dangerous to my health. I would have to really devote my life to the

>> pg, and round up alot of support to help with Gabe. ?Maybe i should

>> wait til he's older like in school (he's almost 3 now ) ? I am so

>> thankful I have him , I guess I must count my blessings but it is more

>> natural for me to feel sorry for myself!! Sigh....

>>

>> Physically, I can't believe how fine I feel. The belly feels tender

>> probably due to the gas they put in for the procedure. I wasn't

>> nauseated at all (the nurse said I was given something before I woke

>> up). Now everyone's going to be asking how it went, I should just

>> copy the above paragraph to hand out! Do you gals feel like people

>> can't quite grasp the severity of Ashermans, and they look at you like

>> you're making it all up? I get that feeling a lot.

>>

>> Well I hope you're all doing well and have a nice weekend, ok!

>>

>> Love,

>> Marcie

>> mommy to age 2 3/4, Sophie and Isabelle twins b/d at 23 weeks

>> in 10/99.....developed ashermans after their retained placenta

>>

June 10, 2000

Marcie,

You and I have been through similar losses, first our twins and then our

fertility through Ashermans. I have to say that I am sorry that your surgery

was unsuccessful. This was your first hysteroscopy and the news that you got was

the same I got for my first too. Sometimes I feel that I am trying for the

impossible but the urge to have a baby takes control of me, so much so that it

took us 13 years to get to the stage of having twins, but just before we had

time to enjoy them, they were taken away from us. Looking back this last year, I

realise how lucky I was to discover pregnancy and everything that goes with it.

That was last year, this year I am faced with infertility and probably never to

be able to have a biological child to hold in my arms.

Whatever you decide about the future, know that we are here to listen because we

ARE the only people who can really and truly understand what you are going

through. I have given up on people who pretent they understand. Unless you have

lived the problem, you never seem to understand.

Poly

June 10, 2000

Hi Debbie, thank you for your kind words, I appreciate it very much.

When I had my hysterectomy they removed the uterus and the cervix, my

ovaries were fine so they did not have to remove them. I had my

hysterectomy March 3, 2000, so it hasn't been very long. I am still

having a hard time with it, I am very angry about the whole thing. I

went to see my family doctor the other day and I told her that it

doesn't seem real that it feels like a dream, she said it is because I

am in denial. I feel like I am going to wake up and ecerything will be

ok. My doctor has put me on antidepressents because I am having such a

hard time. I guess in time it will be better, I just have to kinda wait

it out. I dont want to sound like I am being a baby about this whole

thing but it is very hard to handle sometimes. Like I said before,

before I had my hysterectomy there was still hope that my Ashermans

could be fixed but know it is gone. I have nothing to hope for anymore.

Physically it took me almost two months to recover, I still have a

little bit of pain but not as much it gets better everyday. Now I have

to work on the psychological part. Anyways I just want to say thank you

again and take care.

O

driessen wrote:

> O,

>

> I may sound really ignorant, but when you have a hysterectomy - is it

> only

> the uterus that is removed? I am so sorry for what happened to you

> too.

> How are you doing with things at the moment? It wasn't too long ago

> that

> you had your hysterectomy was it? Just a few months or so? I hope

> you are

> doing better physically but also psychologicallly. Take care.

>

> Debbie

>

> At 10:51 PM 6/9/00 -0400, you wrote:

> >Hi Marcie this is O. I am so sorry to hear about your surgery

> >today. The same thing happened to me the doctor punctured a hole in

> my

> >uterus. I didn't find out until I went to Toronto to have surgery the

>

> >doctor in Ottawa didn't have the decency to tell me. Pretty sad eh?

> When

> >the doctor told me about it I was just as shocked as he was, because

> of

> >the hole he could not finish the surgery. When he went in and

> explored

> >he could not believe how badly damaged my uterus was. He says he has

> >never seen a uterus that badly damaged before and he is a specialist

> in

> >this field. It is pretty scary to think that one doctor can mess you

> up

> >so badly, we put all our trust in these doctors.

> >

> >I know exactly what you are saying when people don't understand what

> we

> >are going through. like I said before unless you have gone through it

>

> >you have know idea what it is like.

> >

> >I ended up getting pregnant about 2 months after the doctor performed

>

> >the surgery but because the uterus was so damaged I could not carry

> the

> >baby full term and ended up having a miscarriage at 3 months. i then

> had

> >to have a hysterectomy because the doctor said that there was no way

> he

> >could do a D & C because there was nothing there for him to scrape. My

> >sister in law said that she would carry a child for us if that is

> what

> >we wanted but I need to get over my hysterectomy first before I can

> >think about it.

> >

> >It is natural to feel sorry for yourself don't feel bad about that.

> >Sometimes we need to do that, it is not being selfish we just have to

>

> >think about ourselves once in awhile. Nobody else understands what we

>

> >are going through so we have to feel sorry for ourselves. I too count

> my

> >blessings everyday that I have my son. When i had my hysterectomy it

> was

> >so hard cause I was so depressed , everybody kept telling me at least

>

> >you have one child and I would say yes I know and I am thankful for

> him,

> >but at the same time I was very angry and hurt, I just kept thinking

> >somebody else did this to me I didn't do it. Boy did I ever feel

> sorry

> >for myself then. Any ways enough about me I just wanted to say good

> luck

> >and I hope everything works out for you. Maybe you should try the

> >procedure again you never know. when is your son going to be three?

> >mine is going to be three August 1. Good Luck and take care.

> >

> >Love O

> >

> >Marcie Ross wrote:

> >

> >> Hello all,

> >>

> >> (I had my first hysteroscopy/laparoscopy today)

> >> Well I did not have a successful surgery. They had given me plenty

> of

> >> general anesthesia for the surgery she had planned, and she had

> looked

> >> around with the hysteroscope and laparoscope, but as soon as she

> tried

> >> to start removing the adhesions the uterus wall was so weak and

> >> fragile she just punctured thru the uterine wall so she had to stop

>

> >> the procedure. So It was quite brief. She took some pictures and

> >> could see the scarring was full thickness in areas. The uterus

> looks

> >> bicorticate because the major scarring is right in the middle, so

> it

> >> would be difficult for a baby to reach full term. She said we could

>

> >> try the procedure again in 6 weeks or so or consider other options,

>

> >> like ttc, adoption, or surrogusy. She didn't think another

> procedure

> >> would work any better than today's did, but maybe it would. She

> said

> >> pg would be very high risk, with risk of mc needing DandC then we'd

> be

> >> back where we started. As you all know The biggest risk is called

> >> placenta acreta (grows into the uterine very high risk and

> potentially

> >> dangerous to my health. I would have to really devote my life to

> the

> >> pg, and round up alot of support to help with Gabe. ?Maybe i

> should

> >> wait til he's older like in school (he's almost 3 now ) ? I am so

> >> thankful I have him , I guess I must count my blessings but it is

> more

> >> natural for me to feel sorry for myself!! Sigh....

> >>

> >> Physically, I can't believe how fine I feel. The belly feels

> tender

> >> probably due to the gas they put in for the procedure. I wasn't

> >> nauseated at all (the nurse said I was given something before I

> woke

> >> up). Now everyone's going to be asking how it went, I should just

> >> copy the above paragraph to hand out! Do you gals feel like people

>

> >> can't quite grasp the severity of Ashermans, and they look at you

> like

> >> you're making it all up? I get that feeling a lot.

> >>

> >> Well I hope you're all doing well and have a nice weekend, ok!

> >>

> >> Love,

> >> Marcie

> >> mommy to age 2 3/4, Sophie and Isabelle twins b/d at 23

> weeks

> >> in 10/99.....developed ashermans after their retained placenta

> >>

June 12, 2000

,

Oh, you are not being a baby!!!! This is one of those really really hard things

that happen in life that test us and test our marriages, friendships, etc.

There is a book that I found helpful and comforting. It's called " When Bad

Things Happen To Good People " by Harold S. Kushner. Maybe it would help you?

Sincerely,