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Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

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I might be wrong, but aren't DFW, and Dallas Fire Department two separate

entities all together. I attended to a Mass Casualty class where the Chief of

DFW was a speaker, and let me tell you they have their Sh*t together when it

comes to dealing with these situations.

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In a message dated 5/3/00 6:48:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mreed@...

writes:

<< Interestingly, after a plane crash at DFW years ago, several passengers

*were* in fact transported by an airport bus who found the passengers

walking off the airfield. This wasn't anything that DFW DPS did, it's just

something that happened in all the chaos.

Interestingly, this is one of the calls that I'd want as many firemen as

possible around... the more adults per child (or firemen per patient), the

better. :)

Mike :D >>

Interesting. You might be interested to know that in the DFW DPS triage

plan, buses are utilized to carry the low priority " walking wounded " to the

hospital. All officers at the airport are certified in one level of EMS, be

it ECA, EMT, or Paramedic. When the bus is utilized to transport these minor

injured people, an EMS perons (s) accompanies them to the hospital. They are

not just turned over to a bus driver. This is all a part of the Mass

Casualty Incident plan.

, BS, LP

Instructor

Tyler Junior College

EMS Professions Program

As a matter of information, I will officially be retired on July 1 from the

DFW Airport Dept. of Public Safety where I worked for over 13 years.

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In a message dated 5/3/00 8:05:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ras119@...

writes:

<< This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this. Mr. ,

allow

me to respond to your response...

As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle that the

bus

hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance bay. The

front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent upwards.

Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a mechanic).

It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This is where a

calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a controlled triage

area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This may have in

fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We do know that

we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour before we

received the bus. >>

And my question is, Do you, the sender of this e-mail, have a name?

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In a message dated 5/3/00 8:21:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, snafu24m@...

writes:

<< might be wrong, but aren't DFW, and Dallas Fire Department two separate

entities all together. I attended to a Mass Casualty class where the Chief

of

DFW was a speaker, and let me tell you they have their Sh*t together when it

comes to dealing with these situations.

>>

You are entirely correct. DFW Airport is an entity of its own. They have

their own fire/police/EMS department, Dallas-Fort Worth Airport Department of

Public Safety. The only common thing about DFW and Dallas is (1)the cities

of Dallas and Ft. Worth own the airport and (2)both Dallas FD and DFW Airport

DPS utilize the Biotel medical control system located at Parkland Hospital.

And you are correct, DFW Airport does have their dookie together in handline

MCI incidents.

Retired DFW Aiport police officer, paramedic, firefighter

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I'd also like to have some " firewomen. " They could be lots of help. Don't

mean to carp about political correctness, but let's hear it for the women in

the fireservices and EMS.

Gene Gandy

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In a message dated 5/3/00 9:59:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wegandy@...

writes:

<< I'd also like to have some " firewomen. " They could be lots of help.

Don't

mean to carp about political correctness, but let's hear it for the women in

the fireservices and EMS.

Gene Gandy

>>

Here, here!! WE need more women!

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Interestingly, after a plane crash at DFW years ago, several passengers

*were* in fact transported by an airport bus who found the passengers

walking off the airfield. This wasn't anything that DFW DPS did, it's just

something that happened in all the chaos.

Interestingly, this is one of the calls that I'd want as many firemen as

possible around... the more adults per child (or firemen per patient), the

better. :)

Mike :D

re: dfd mci fiasco

> Well put Mr. Sharp. Incidents such as these are great for training. If

you

> can't manage an incident of this size with minor injuries, how would one

> expect that you can handle a severe one. DFD is probably the 2nd biggest

> department in this state, should we expect that if a 727 crashes at Love

> Field that they will have the pilot drive his damaged plane down to

Parkland

> to off load the passengers?

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:

> http://click./1/3555/4/_/4981/_/957404065/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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> In a message dated 5/3/00 8:05:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ras119@a...

> writes:

>

> << This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this.

Mr. ,

> allow

> me to respond to your response...

> As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle

that the

> bus

> hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance

bay. The

> front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent

upwards.

> Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a

mechanic).

> It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This is

where a

> calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a

controlled triage

> area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This may

have in

> fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

> As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We do

know that

> we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour

before we

> received the bus. >>

>

>

> And my question is, Do you, the sender of this e-mail, have a name?

>

===Good grief. Not purposely trying to hide anything here if that

goes towards validity of my postings.

Sincere Apologies,

Rick Sokolnicki

EMT-P

Pedi-Tech

R/M Arlington

Children's Medical Center Dallas ERC

>

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busiest ped's er? only beacuse you count " First Care " , your clinic.. and by

the way, you still hav'nt left your name,

Goodman...

>From: ras119@...

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: re: dfd mci fiasco

>Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:04:22 EDT

>

>This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this. Mr. ,

>allow

>me to respond to your response...

>As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle that the

>bus

>hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance bay. The

>front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent upwards.

>Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a mechanic).

>It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This is where a

>calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a controlled

>triage

>area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This may have in

>fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

>As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We do know that

>we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour before we

>received the bus.

>Again on the damage, one of the patients mentioned that the bus hit a car

>stopped at an intersection.

>ON the happenings at the hospital. It was a reminder that many things must

>go on in the er environment. Actual patient care is just a fraction of the

>goings on.

>As far as the justification for sending all the patients to one place. You

>will not ever convince me that that is a sane thing to do. It's never a

>good

>idea to overload any one place with patients no matter how minor the

>injuries. Having been in this circumstance a few times in the field, a

>very

>strict protocol for tracking and identification of patients has to be

>implemented here. It is also easy when you have the resources to contact

>parents to allow them to make a decision. I know that is very hard to do,

>but several parents arrived at CMC with only the knowledge that there was a

>bus wreck and that their kid was at the hospital.

>It is quite true that CMC can and did handle the problem efficiently. We

>are

>the busiest peds er in the nation for the 2nd year running with over 96

>thousand pt.s alone.

>So instead of obtaining refusals, you just send everyone to the hospital?

>That is the biggest pile of complete garbage I have ever heard. So very

>lazy. Uninjured kids should have parents notified to make a decision. End

>of story, if that is not possible, implied consent says you dump them on an

>Er somewhere. Large numbers of bills will be generated for all of this.

>Who

>is gonna pay for all of that?

>As for the bus, it was just odd for me to see. I wondered if maybe some

>unknown brake system failure had caused this wreck. Was it investigated?

>As for the patients reports, when I left the hospital at 3am this morning

>there had not been 63 DFD patient reports delivered to the ERC.

>As far as the triage comment goes, you really have no idea as too the

>numbers

>we see. Many things sit in our waiting room that aren't all that minor....

>But like I said, I wanted some input on this and expected some heated

>reactions. Lets remember that overall everything went well. We are all

>thankful that a busload of kids involved in a wreck wasn't so verymuch

>worse.

> It was also a good thing for the CMC staff to go through every now and

>then.

> They are usually frequent enough(unfortunately) that we do not actually

>ever

>have to practice this.

________________________________________________________________________

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RICK?,

Aw jeesh I was expecting some dufus medic from Dallas, But you? Et tu

brutus? I can't wait till you bring me a pt. to Cook's....

Goodman

>

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

>Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 06:45:10 CDT

>

>busiest ped's er? only beacuse you count " First Care " , your clinic.. and by

>the way, you still hav'nt left your name,

> Goodman...

>

>

> >From: ras119@...

> >Reply-To: egroups

> >To: egroups

> >Subject: re: dfd mci fiasco

> >Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:04:22 EDT

> >

> >This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this. Mr. ,

> >allow

> >me to respond to your response...

> >As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle that the

> >bus

> >hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance bay.

>The

> >front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent upwards.

> >Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a mechanic).

> >It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This is where

>a

> >calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a controlled

> >triage

> >area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This may have in

> >fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

> >As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We do know

>that

> >we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour before we

> >received the bus.

> >Again on the damage, one of the patients mentioned that the bus hit a car

> >stopped at an intersection.

> >ON the happenings at the hospital. It was a reminder that many things

>must

> >go on in the er environment. Actual patient care is just a fraction of

>the

> >goings on.

> >As far as the justification for sending all the patients to one place.

>You

> >will not ever convince me that that is a sane thing to do. It's never a

> >good

> >idea to overload any one place with patients no matter how minor the

> >injuries. Having been in this circumstance a few times in the field, a

> >very

> >strict protocol for tracking and identification of patients has to be

> >implemented here. It is also easy when you have the resources to contact

> >parents to allow them to make a decision. I know that is very hard to

>do,

> >but several parents arrived at CMC with only the knowledge that there was

>a

> >bus wreck and that their kid was at the hospital.

> >It is quite true that CMC can and did handle the problem efficiently. We

> >are

> >the busiest peds er in the nation for the 2nd year running with over 96

> >thousand pt.s alone.

> >So instead of obtaining refusals, you just send everyone to the hospital?

> >That is the biggest pile of complete garbage I have ever heard. So very

> >lazy. Uninjured kids should have parents notified to make a decision.

>End

> >of story, if that is not possible, implied consent says you dump them on

>an

> >Er somewhere. Large numbers of bills will be generated for all of this.

> >Who

> >is gonna pay for all of that?

> >As for the bus, it was just odd for me to see. I wondered if maybe some

> >unknown brake system failure had caused this wreck. Was it investigated?

> >As for the patients reports, when I left the hospital at 3am this morning

> >there had not been 63 DFD patient reports delivered to the ERC.

> >As far as the triage comment goes, you really have no idea as too the

> >numbers

> >we see. Many things sit in our waiting room that aren't all that

>minor....

> >But like I said, I wanted some input on this and expected some heated

> >reactions. Lets remember that overall everything went well. We are all

> >thankful that a busload of kids involved in a wreck wasn't so verymuch

> >worse.

> > It was also a good thing for the CMC staff to go through every now and

> >then.

> > They are usually frequent enough(unfortunately) that we do not actually

> >ever

> >have to practice this.

>

>________________________________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

>

________________________________________________________________________

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Knowing DFD yes they would. The things that DFD EMS get away with could

close most other services?

re: dfd mci fiasco

>Well put Mr. Sharp. Incidents such as these are great for training. If

you

>can't manage an incident of this size with minor injuries, how would one

>expect that you can handle a severe one. DFD is probably the 2nd biggest

>department in this state, should we expect that if a 727 crashes at Love

>Field that they will have the pilot drive his damaged plane down to

Parkland

>to off load the passengers?

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:

>http://click./1/3555/4/_/4981/_/957404065/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

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Be realistic. Traffic in Dallas is bad enough without a 727 going down the

freeway!

Jay

re: dfd mci fiasco

Well put Mr. Sharp. Incidents such as these are great for training. If you

can't manage an incident of this size with minor injuries, how would one

expect that you can handle a severe one. DFD is probably the 2nd biggest

department in this state, should we expect that if a 727 crashes at Love

Field that they will have the pilot drive his damaged plane down to Parkland

to off load the passengers?

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In a message dated Thu, 4 May 2000 10:07:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, " Dave

" writes:

<< They are indeed. Actually the biggest snafu with the first major crash at

DFW occurred because of stupidity on the part of a major Dallas hospital.

They always refused to participate in the disaster drills DFW held

regularly, unlike the Tarrant County and other Dallas hospitals. As a

result, when the you-know-what hit the fan (actually a big water tank was

what they hit), we all did our jobs as the drills had prepared us. They

loaded up most of their ER medical staff in a bus and rushed to DFW with a

police escort, arriving just as the last living patient was being airlifted

to their facility (where about half the casualties went). They were the ones

who didn't follow the plan. They were the ones who didn't credit the

paramedics with the ability to do the triage and handle the scene as we were

trained. They were the ones who left their post in a critical time. Finally,

they were the ones who blasted all the rest of us in a news interview

several days later as having messed up the response. The response went very

well, all things considered, their opinions notwithstanding, except for the

job they were supposed to do. Shows ta go ya that incompetency doesn't

always rest with the medics!

Dave

And just for your information, the team you are referring to is no longer asked

to participate in the Lifesaver Drills held every 5 years at DFW.

RAA

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Shows ta go ya that size of the service does not equate automatically with

competency.

Dave

re: dfd mci fiasco

> Well put Mr. Sharp. Incidents such as these are great for training. If

you

> can't manage an incident of this size with minor injuries, how would one

> expect that you can handle a severe one. DFD is probably the 2nd biggest

> department in this state, should we expect that if a 727 crashes at Love

> Field that they will have the pilot drive his damaged plane down to

Parkland

> to off load the passengers?

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:

> http://click./1/3555/4/_/4981/_/957404065/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

>

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They are indeed. Actually the biggest snafu with the first major crash at

DFW occurred because of stupidity on the part of a major Dallas hospital.

They always refused to participate in the disaster drills DFW held

regularly, unlike the Tarrant County and other Dallas hospitals. As a

result, when the you-know-what hit the fan (actually a big water tank was

what they hit), we all did our jobs as the drills had prepared us. They

loaded up most of their ER medical staff in a bus and rushed to DFW with a

police escort, arriving just as the last living patient was being airlifted

to their facility (where about half the casualties went). They were the ones

who didn't follow the plan. They were the ones who didn't credit the

paramedics with the ability to do the triage and handle the scene as we were

trained. They were the ones who left their post in a critical time. Finally,

they were the ones who blasted all the rest of us in a news interview

several days later as having messed up the response. The response went very

well, all things considered, their opinions notwithstanding, except for the

job they were supposed to do. Shows ta go ya that incompetency doesn't

always rest with the medics!

Dave

Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

> I might be wrong, but aren't DFW, and Dallas Fire Department two separate

> entities all together. I attended to a Mass Casualty class where the Chief

of

> DFW was a speaker, and let me tell you they have their Sh*t together when

it

> comes to dealing with these situations.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> eGroups eLerts

> It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!

> http://click./1/3863/4/_/4981/_/957410180/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

>

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Comments inline... :)

Mike :D

re: dfd mci fiasco

This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this. Mr. ,

allow

me to respond to your response...

M> Okay, but call me Mike. We're all friends here... :)

As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle that the

bus

hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance bay. The

front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent upwards.

Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a mechanic).

M> Okay, I'll accept that. :)

It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This is where a

calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a controlled triage

area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This may have in

fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

M> I'd still have to believe though, that an ER area is a more

controlled environment that's safer for the kids and staff than an

intersection where an accident had just occured.

As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We do know that

we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour before we

received the bus.

M> Sounds like efficient notification to me. Biotel, right? [Note:

No matter my views on the need for online medical control and the level of

assistance/guidance it should provide, I've always found Biotel to be an

efficient, professional system.]

Again on the damage, one of the patients mentioned that the bus hit a car

stopped at an intersection.

ON the happenings at the hospital. It was a reminder that many things must

go on in the er environment. Actual patient care is just a fraction of the

goings on.

As far as the justification for sending all the patients to one place. You

will not ever convince me that that is a sane thing to do.

M> I don't know - keeping them all together is a much, much easier

logistical concern than separating them, especially if there's not enough

school staff to track them all at different facilities and notify parents

which facility to go to. DISD doesn't have the brightest staff in all

cases.

It's never a good

idea to overload any one place with patients no matter how minor the

injuries.

M> I don't know that I'd call 60 patients of a minor/non-injured nature

with an hour's notice an overload for a facility like CMC.

Having been in this circumstance a few times in the field, a very

strict protocol for tracking and identification of patients has to be

implemented here.

M> Agreed, and in DFD, that responsiblity would fall to scene command,

most likely a Batallion Chief or Section Chief, and the EMS Duty Officer

(780 series unit).

It is also easy when you have the resources to contact

parents to allow them to make a decision.

M> I'd doubt that the resources existed. More than likely, the parents

numbers were not with each child, requiring that information to come from

the school, not the bus. Not a pretty thing. Fax machines are more

prevalent in ER's than in chief's cars... and the school could fax over each

child's emergency contact form.

I know that is very hard to do,

but several parents arrived at CMC with only the knowledge that there was a

bus wreck and that their kid was at the hospital.

M> Sounds like they got *enough* information, though the status of

their child might not have been a bad thing (minor injuries).

It is quite true that CMC can and did handle the problem efficiently. We

are

the busiest peds er in the nation for the 2nd year running with over 96

thousand pt.s alone.

So instead of obtaining refusals, you just send everyone to the hospital?

That is the biggest pile of complete garbage I have ever heard. So very

lazy. Uninjured kids should have parents notified to make a decision. End

of story, if that is not possible, implied consent says you dump them on an

Er somewhere.

M> Your last sentence hits it. If you can't get a refusal, implied

consent says a child goes. Utilizing a single facility that can in fact

handle it (an hour's notice implies that a decision to handle this case was

made, again this is probably a BioTel led decision), using that facility and

it alone minimizes the complications of tracking, notification and treatment

(that medical team can not only evaluate single injuries, but " place " them

against the group of injuries they see from the same wreck, very very

valuable).

Large numbers of bills will be generated for all of this. Who

is gonna pay for all of that?

M> Most likely, DISD will be paying. <g>

As for the bus, it was just odd for me to see. I wondered if maybe some

unknown brake system failure had caused this wreck. Was it investigated?

M> I'm absolutely certain that the bus was safe. While DISD and DISDPD

may not be the best at noticing these things, DPD isn't going to let a

wounded bus leave the scene with kids in it.

As for the patients reports, when I left the hospital at 3am this morning

there had not been 63 DFD patient reports delivered to the ERC.

M> I don't know how I'd track or respond to that one.

As far as the triage comment goes, you really have no idea as too the

numbers

we see. Many things sit in our waiting room that aren't all that minor....

M> Actually, I do. I have firsthand knolwedge. I grew up areound the

DFD system, I did a few rotations through CMC ER as an EMT Basic student at

UTSWMC, and kept familiar when I worked campus security for UTSWMC, and

still see CMC ER on occasion when I ride out with DFD.

But like I said, I wanted some input on this and expected some heated

reactions. Lets remember that overall everything went well. We are all

thankful that a busload of kids involved in a wreck wasn't so verymuch

worse.

M> Agreed. Unfortunately, school bus wrecks are pretty prevalent in a

particular school district down here... :(

It was also a good thing for the CMC staff to go through every now and

then.

They are usually frequent enough(unfortunately) that we do not actually

ever

have to practice this.

M> LOL, the way that came out was classic. I'm glad, however, that

this isn't a new occurence for the staff. Mike :)

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Yes, they are, and yes, they do. :)

Mike :)

Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

> I might be wrong, but aren't DFW, and Dallas Fire Department two separate

> entities all together. I attended to a Mass Casualty class where the Chief

of

> DFW was a speaker, and let me tell you they have their Sh*t together when

it

> comes to dealing with these situations.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> eGroups eLerts

> It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!

> http://click./1/3863/4/_/4981/_/957410180/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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Sure, but this was an accidental deal, one where the bus driver just came

across a group a patients very early on in a scene...

Generally, DFW DPS is one of the best departments in the area. Funny how

training does that.

Mike :)

Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

> In a message dated 5/3/00 6:48:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

mreed@...

> writes:

>

> << Interestingly, after a plane crash at DFW years ago, several passengers

> *were* in fact transported by an airport bus who found the passengers

> walking off the airfield. This wasn't anything that DFW DPS did, it's

just

> something that happened in all the chaos.

>

> Interestingly, this is one of the calls that I'd want as many firemen as

> possible around... the more adults per child (or firemen per patient),

the

> better. :)

>

> Mike :D >>

>

>

> Interesting. You might be interested to know that in the DFW DPS triage

> plan, buses are utilized to carry the low priority " walking wounded " to

the

> hospital. All officers at the airport are certified in one level of EMS,

be

> it ECA, EMT, or Paramedic. When the bus is utilized to transport these

minor

> injured people, an EMS perons (s) accompanies them to the hospital. They

are

> not just turned over to a bus driver. This is all a part of the Mass

> Casualty Incident plan.

>

> , BS, LP

> Instructor

> Tyler Junior College

> EMS Professions Program

>

> As a matter of information, I will officially be retired on July 1 from

the

> DFW Airport Dept. of Public Safety where I worked for over 13 years.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> eLerts

> It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!

> http://click./1/3864/4/_/4981/_/957412514/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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Thanks, Rick! We all just like to know who we're talking to! :)

Mike :D

Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

>

> > In a message dated 5/3/00 8:05:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> ras119@a...

> > writes:

> >

> > << This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this.

> Mr. ,

> > allow

> > me to respond to your response...

> > As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle

> that the

> > bus

> > hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance

> bay. The

> > front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent

> upwards.

> > Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a

> mechanic).

> > It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This is

> where a

> > calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a

> controlled triage

> > area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This may

> have in

> > fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

> > As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We do

> know that

> > we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour

> before we

> > received the bus. >>

> >

> >

> > And my question is, Do you, the sender of this e-mail, have a name?

> >

> ===Good grief. Not purposely trying to hide anything here if that

> goes towards validity of my postings.

>

> Sincere Apologies,

>

> Rick Sokolnicki

> EMT-P

> Pedi-Tech

> R/M Arlington

> Children's Medical Center Dallas ERC

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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Come on Gene, you know as well as I do that the women in the service are

just as much " firemen " as the men are... :)

Mike :)

Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

> I'd also like to have some " firewomen. " They could be lots of help.

Don't

> mean to carp about political correctness, but let's hear it for the women

in

> the fireservices and EMS.

>

> Gene Gandy

>

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> RICK?,

> >>>>Hey , What's been going on? Yes I started this whole

mess. It think it's great the amount of input I have got from this.

I'll have to post some more controversial stuff as i come across it.

Oh and by the way, if you remember, our stats at children's are

comprised of the numbers that are triaged. First care is a part of

the ERC and will see only the garbage but still falls under our

numbers. Last year first care with it's only eight beds saw more

patients than the rest of the ER!! So sit back and be lazy out there

in FTW where the nurses actually treat you like a human and a

professional and leave us and the houskeeping staff to do all the

slave labor at Children's.......

Rick Sokolnicki

EMT-P

Pedi-Tech

R/M Arlington (and we are staying in business)

Children's Medical Center Dallas ERC (prone to much natural disaster)

> Aw jeesh I was expecting some dufus medic from Dallas, But you? Et

tu

> brutus? I can't wait till you bring me a pt. to Cook's....

> Goodman

>

>

> >From: " g.r. goodman " <medstar29@h...>

> >Reply-To: egroups

> >To: egroups

> >Subject: Re: re: dfd mci fiasco

> >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 06:45:10 CDT

> >

> >busiest ped's er? only beacuse you count " First Care " , your

clinic.. and by

> >the way, you still hav'nt left your name,

> > Goodman...

> >

> >

> > >From: ras119@a...

> > >Reply-To: egroups

> > >To: egroups

> > >Subject: re: dfd mci fiasco

> > >Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:04:22 EDT

> > >

> > >This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this.

Mr. ,

> > >allow

> > >me to respond to your response...

> > >As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle

that the

> > >bus

> > >hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance

bay.

> >The

> > >front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent

upwards.

> > >Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a

mechanic).

> > >It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This

is where

> >a

> > >calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a

controlled

> > >triage

> > >area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This

may have in

> > >fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

> > >As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We

do know

> >that

> > >we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour

before we

> > >received the bus.

> > >Again on the damage, one of the patients mentioned that the bus

hit a car

> > >stopped at an intersection.

> > >ON the happenings at the hospital. It was a reminder that many

things

> >must

> > >go on in the er environment. Actual patient care is just a

fraction of

> >the

> > >goings on.

> > >As far as the justification for sending all the patients to one

place.

> >You

> > >will not ever convince me that that is a sane thing to do. It's

never a

> > >good

> > >idea to overload any one place with patients no matter how minor

the

> > >injuries. Having been in this circumstance a few times in the

field, a

> > >very

> > >strict protocol for tracking and identification of patients has

to be

> > >implemented here. It is also easy when you have the resources

to contact

> > >parents to allow them to make a decision. I know that is very

hard to

> >do,

> > >but several parents arrived at CMC with only the knowledge that

there was

> >a

> > >bus wreck and that their kid was at the hospital.

> > >It is quite true that CMC can and did handle the problem

efficiently. We

> > >are

> > >the busiest peds er in the nation for the 2nd year running with

over 96

> > >thousand pt.s alone.

> > >So instead of obtaining refusals, you just send everyone to the

hospital?

> > >That is the biggest pile of complete garbage I have ever heard.

So very

> > >lazy. Uninjured kids should have parents notified to make a

decision.

> >End

> > >of story, if that is not possible, implied consent says you dump

them on

> >an

> > >Er somewhere. Large numbers of bills will be generated for all

of this.

> > >Who

> > >is gonna pay for all of that?

> > >As for the bus, it was just odd for me to see. I wondered if

maybe some

> > >unknown brake system failure had caused this wreck. Was it

investigated?

> > >As for the patients reports, when I left the hospital at 3am

this morning

> > >there had not been 63 DFD patient reports delivered to the ERC.

> > >As far as the triage comment goes, you really have no idea as

too the

> > >numbers

> > >we see. Many things sit in our waiting room that aren't all

that

> >minor....

> > >But like I said, I wanted some input on this and expected some

heated

> > >reactions. Lets remember that overall everything went well. We

are all

> > >thankful that a busload of kids involved in a wreck wasn't so

verymuch

> > >worse.

> > > It was also a good thing for the CMC staff to go through every

now and

> > >then.

> > > They are usually frequent enough(unfortunately) that we do not

actually

> > >ever

> > >have to practice this.

> >

>

>_____________________________________________________________________

___

> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

http://www.hotmail.com

> >

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

__

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

http://www.hotmail.com

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Rick - great signature line. :)

Mike :D

re: dfd mci fiasco

> > >Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:04:22 EDT

> > >

> > >This is great. I was hoping to get some good input on this.

Mr. ,

> > >allow

> > >me to respond to your response...

> > >As for the wreck. I was not onscene and did not see the vehicle

that the

> > >bus

> > >hit. I did however see the bus as it drove into CMC's ambulance

bay.

> >The

> > >front bumper, very large and of very heavy steel was infact bent

upwards.

> > >Minimally, and most probably not of need of repair( I am not a

mechanic).

> > >It is also true that emotions can distract from injuries. This

is where

> >a

> > >calm, proficient provider can weed through the masses in a

controlled

> > >triage

> > >area, i.e., not in the bus surrounded by 60 other kids. This

may have in

> > >fact happened but is out of my realm of knowledge.

> > >As to whom was notified, also out of my area of knowledge. We

do know

> >that

> > >we (yes I am an employee at CMC) were notified almost an hour

before we

> > >received the bus.

> > >Again on the damage, one of the patients mentioned that the bus

hit a car

> > >stopped at an intersection.

> > >ON the happenings at the hospital. It was a reminder that many

things

> >must

> > >go on in the er environment. Actual patient care is just a

fraction of

> >the

> > >goings on.

> > >As far as the justification for sending all the patients to one

place.

> >You

> > >will not ever convince me that that is a sane thing to do. It's

never a

> > >good

> > >idea to overload any one place with patients no matter how minor

the

> > >injuries. Having been in this circumstance a few times in the

field, a

> > >very

> > >strict protocol for tracking and identification of patients has

to be

> > >implemented here. It is also easy when you have the resources

to contact

> > >parents to allow them to make a decision. I know that is very

hard to

> >do,

> > >but several parents arrived at CMC with only the knowledge that

there was

> >a

> > >bus wreck and that their kid was at the hospital.

> > >It is quite true that CMC can and did handle the problem

efficiently. We

> > >are

> > >the busiest peds er in the nation for the 2nd year running with

over 96

> > >thousand pt.s alone.

> > >So instead of obtaining refusals, you just send everyone to the

hospital?

> > >That is the biggest pile of complete garbage I have ever heard.

So very

> > >lazy. Uninjured kids should have parents notified to make a

decision.

> >End

> > >of story, if that is not possible, implied consent says you dump

them on

> >an

> > >Er somewhere. Large numbers of bills will be generated for all

of this.

> > >Who

> > >is gonna pay for all of that?

> > >As for the bus, it was just odd for me to see. I wondered if

maybe some

> > >unknown brake system failure had caused this wreck. Was it

investigated?

> > >As for the patients reports, when I left the hospital at 3am

this morning

> > >there had not been 63 DFD patient reports delivered to the ERC.

> > >As far as the triage comment goes, you really have no idea as

too the

> > >numbers

> > >we see. Many things sit in our waiting room that aren't all

that

> >minor....

> > >But like I said, I wanted some input on this and expected some

heated

> > >reactions. Lets remember that overall everything went well. We

are all

> > >thankful that a busload of kids involved in a wreck wasn't so

verymuch

> > >worse.

> > > It was also a good thing for the CMC staff to go through every

now and

> > >then.

> > > They are usually frequent enough(unfortunately) that we do not

actually

> > >ever

> > >have to practice this.

> >

>

>_____________________________________________________________________

___

> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

http://www.hotmail.com

> >

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

__

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

http://www.hotmail.com

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