Re: Addiction Hardiness effect demonstrated?

[Guest guest]

Hi Cool Brit

Great, informative post! I've been thinking alot about how to look at

addiction. I don't feel as though I have a disease.

But lets face it--I have come to the point where its very uncomfortable for

me to attempts moderate drinking. The last time I tried, (several years

ago) I noticed that if I had a beer, I would feel pretty good for about 30

minutes. Later, I felt weak, wanting more alcohol or sweets, and have

trouble sleeping that night. It would pretty much ruin the whole day.

Most other people who have a drink or two don't have that immediate

loss of tolerance and uncomfortable withdrawel. Am I more sensitive to

the action of alochol in my system? Or is my system more sensitive to

alcohol? Why? Because of genes? Or damage done by years of

excessive drinking? ( I do not come from a stock of moderated drinkers.

Such is not in the culture in my family)

Of course, I reject the notion that I have a disease that also causes

character defects or a foul personality.

But I have to admit, I do seem have a condition that is not typical in

others.

Any thoughts from others? I'd like to hear from not only those who are

abstinent, but those who have learned to drink moderately? Have you

had the physical problems with it that I've described? Were they overcome?

What about those who are abstinent? What reasons do you

have?

By the way, Pete, do I have permission to post your letter on arf12s?

Sincerely,

----------

From: Cool Briton

Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 2:48 PM

To: Academic & Scholarly discussion of addiction related topics.

Cc: 12-step-free@...

Subject: " Addiction Hardiness " effect demonstrated?

Hi All

You may remember in a post I wrote to addict-l I suggested

that it is more appropriate to consider ppl with a genetic

resistance to addiction as " Alcohol/Drug Hardy " rather than

ppl with a susceptibility as having " Addictive Disease " .

I was happy to see something reported recently from I

believe the US that supports my idea. It was a report on

the genetics of nicotine addiction.

Apparently there is a gene which controls production of an

enzyme that breaks down nicotine. In abt 20% of

non-smokers it is defective, but in only 10% of smokers.

Ppl with the defective gene take longer to eliminate

nicotine from their system. The result is that smoking

produces higher nicotine levels and hence deters the person

from smoking more often. also, as elimination is slower,

withdrawal is less acute and less craving is felt when the

person stops smoking - hence they are less likely to get

addicted.

This is a fine example as predicted by my " Addiciton

Hardiness " theory. It is the *non-addicts* who possess the

defective gene. In other words, in the absence of

nicotine, having an " addictive nature " - at least in regard

to nicotine - is arguably the natural, healthier state.

I believe similar factors apply to alcohol and possibly

other drugs. what association with genetics showed by

alcoholism is not a result of a " genetic disease of

alcoholism " but the fact that over thousands of years of

alcohol use, especially the last 500 or so of distilled

spirits, there has been an evolutionary pressure to

" alcohol hardiness " that most ppl have inherited, but some

not. however, this lack of hardiness is no justification

whatsoever for considering them " diseased " . if anything,

alcohol-hardy ppl are the ones " diseased " - they have had

to make a metabolic compromise in an alcohol using

environment. The distinction is important because all the

horse manure abt " alcoholic/addict personality " etc is

completely nailed from a genetic perspective - there is no

reason at all for suggesting these ppl have anything wrong

with them genetically.

Pete

----------------------

Cool Briton

PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST:

http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

_____________________

" Every great scientist is part B.F. Skinner and part P.T. Barnum "

- Bart Simpson's science teacher

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[Guest guest]

>Any thoughts from others? I'd like to hear from not only those who are

>abstinent, but those who have learned to drink moderately? Have you

>had the physical problems with it that I've described? Were they overcome?

>What about those who are abstinent? What reasons do you

>have?

>

>

I have found that after only one drink I have what I can only describe

as an allergic reation. My nasal passages start to close, my heart races

and I begin to feel agitated. If I carry on drinking I break out in a

rash and feel as if my joints are swelling. For me it's not worth it, I

don't have any *pleasant* sensations so whats the point. I have come to

accept that infact I am allergic to the stuff and if I choose to ignore

these warning signs then one of these days I might just go into

anafalactic(sp) shock. It doesn't add anything good to my life so I've

accepted that I will probably be abstinant for the rest of my life. This

was a horrendous thought when I was still going to meetings because of

the knowledge that I would be going to these boring, depressing meetings

for ever more. Since deciding to leave AA, a life time of abstinance no

longer seems such a big deal :-)

I had a phone call from an AA friend this morning and I knew immediatly

from the tone of her voice that it wasn't just a chat! I still haven't

told my home group that I have left yet because one of the members is

dealing with our bankrupcy and I have to keep him sweet. I have been

using the chronic pain in my hips as my excuse!! Well, I got a real

talking to. Not a concerned " Didn't see you at the meeting, are you ok? "

What I got was a telling off, she told me that pain was no excuse and

that I should just bring a cushion to sit on and on top of that it was

Tony's (the guy doing the bankrupcy) 12th birthday share etc etc etc and

on and on. Felt like a child being told off for missing a practice

meeting or something!!! I don't need this kind of treatment and the

sooner I can tell them I'm off the better!

--

M

Bristol

England ICQ#7099782

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[Guest guest]

At 02:17 PM 7/11/98 +0100, wrote:

>using the chronic pain in my hips as my excuse!! Well, I got a real

>talking to. Not a concerned " Didn't see you at the meeting, are you ok? "

>What I got was a telling off, she told me that pain was no excuse and

>that I should just bring a cushion to sit on and on top of that it was

>Tony's (the guy doing the bankrupcy) 12th birthday share etc etc etc and

>on and on. Felt like a child being told off for missing a practice

>meeting or something!!! I don't need this kind of treatment and the

>sooner I can tell them I'm off the better!

Actually, this is part of the culture of 12 Step that I didn't like either.

One is constantly guilt tripped when stepping outside the approved box.

It is as if people in 12 Step can't be friends with others unless they

approve of their actions. They were great friends while I was : " working

the program " according to their standards and backed off if I was not. The

first few times I left 12 Steps--not with purpose, but simply faded--one of

the main reasons I didn't go back was because of the guilt trips I'd

get....while I was still abstinent, had accomplished much during the time,

and the only " wrong " I had committed was not to show my face at meetings.

Eventually, when I did some inner work to quit having to need their

approval, I went back with my head up. Then, after another two years, I

*really* saw the " cult:-think " environment for what it was, and left

altogether, this time with no guilt, remorse or anything. Anyone who

calls, I simply tell them that I will no longer subject myself to that cult

culture. However, they have quit calling, and so many are so caught up in

it, they don't even see it for what it is. Funny, how after I left (over a

year ago) they no longer call. One person evern wrote me a letter to tell

me now that I was no longer doing " anything " (per 12 Step) for my recovery,

he could not remain friends with me....and I had known him since I was a

kid! This kind of thing has hurt.

Only one friend has remained after 12-Step, even thought I was close to

many others over the 15+ years I was there. It only helps me to realize

how very exclusive and " brainwashing " and cultish they are. Anyone who

does not follow their " approved " program is deemed to be a danger to their

recovery and cast off. We are not welcome in the flock unless we follow

the rules.

BTW, I knew I had made a lot of progress when I no longer needed to explain

or defend myself to any of them.

Maimu

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[Guest guest]

At 14:17 11/07/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Actually, this is part of the culture of 12 Step that I didn't like either.

> One is constantly guilt tripped when stepping outside the approved box.

>It is as if people in 12 Step can't be friends with others unless they

>approve of their actions. They were great friends while I was : " working

>the program " according to their standards and backed off if I was not. The

>first few times I left 12 Steps--not with purpose, but simply faded--one of

>the main reasons I didn't go back was because of the guilt trips I'd

>get....while I was still abstinent, had accomplished much during the time,

>and the only " wrong " I had committed was not to show my face at meetings.

> Eventually, when I did some inner work to quit having to need their

>approval, I went back with my head up. Then, after another two years, I

>*really* saw the " cult:-think " environment for what it was, and left

>altogether, this time with no guilt, remorse or anything. Anyone who

>calls, I simply tell them that I will no longer subject myself to that cult

>culture. However, they have quit calling, and so many are so caught up in

>it, they don't even see it for what it is. Funny, how after I left (over a

>year ago) they no longer call. One person evern wrote me a letter to tell

>me now that I was no longer doing " anything " (per 12 Step) for my recovery,

>he could not remain friends with me....and I had known him since I was a

>kid! This kind of thing has hurt.

>Only one friend has remained after 12-Step, even thought I was close to

>many others over the 15+ years I was there. It only helps me to realize

>how very exclusive and " brainwashing " and cultish they are. Anyone who

>does not follow their " approved " program is deemed to be a danger to their

>recovery and cast off. We are not welcome in the flock unless we follow

>the rules.

>BTW, I knew I had made a lot of progress when I no longer needed to explain

>or defend myself to any of them.

>Maimu

Maimu! Possibly you won't remember me- I was on the same NA email list as

you a couple of years ago, just before I realised I didn't want to remain

an NA member. And just so you know- you were about the only person who made

any sense to me at all on that list. We were talking about NA's

limitations, and getting a certain amount of flack from the Grateful and

Godly contingent, mostly around the cenntral theme of " how dare you think

for yourelf anyway " .

Around that time I found the organisation known as SMART Recovery and it

has its own list (to whihc I have been subscribed ever since), and I got a

lot of new up to date scientifically-based information about addiction and

recovery from there, which confirmed for me my new thinking about it all.

Anyway, I just thought I would say " hi " . And welcome, of course!

Joe Berenbaum

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[Guest guest]

Hi

I'm not suggesting that there arent ppl better off

abstaining rather than trying to moderate. nobody has to

drink alcohol if they dont want to, unlike the need to eat

food (unfortunately). if you feel better, healthier and

happier not drinking at all, then go ahead and dont drink!

I accept there may be ppl who are not " addiction hardy " and

may have an " allergy " to alcohol. certainly chronic heavy

drinking might create this condition in someone, especially

temporarily. my point is that imho there is no

justification for considering this an endogenous disease

present at birth - and need have no other psychological

aspects whatsoever. By all means send my post to arf.

Pete

On Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:49:36 -0700 Jack Keilman

wrote:

> Hi Cool Brit

>

> Great, informative post! I've been thinking alot about how to look at

> addiction. I don't feel as though I have a disease.

>

> But lets face it--I have come to the point where its very uncomfortable for

> me to attempts moderate drinking. The last time I tried, (several years

> ago) I noticed that if I had a beer, I would feel pretty good for about 30

> minutes. Later, I felt weak, wanting more alcohol or sweets, and have

> trouble sleeping that night. It would pretty much ruin the whole day.

> Most other people who have a drink or two don't have that immediate

> loss of tolerance and uncomfortable withdrawel. Am I more sensitive to

> the action of alochol in my system? Or is my system more sensitive to

> alcohol? Why? Because of genes? Or damage done by years of

> excessive drinking? ( I do not come from a stock of moderated drinkers.

> Such is not in the culture in my family)

>

> Of course, I reject the notion that I have a disease that also causes

> character defects or a foul personality.

>

> But I have to admit, I do seem have a condition that is not typical in

> others.

>

> Any thoughts from others? I'd like to hear from not only those who are

> abstinent, but those who have learned to drink moderately? Have you

> had the physical problems with it that I've described? Were they overcome?

What about those who are abstinent? What reasons do you

> have?

>

> By the way, Pete, do I have permission to post your letter on arf12s?

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

>

> ----------

> From: Cool Briton

> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 2:48 PM

> To: Academic & Scholarly discussion of addiction related topics.

> Cc: 12-step-free@...

> Subject: " Addiction Hardiness " effect demonstrated?

>

> Hi All

>

> You may remember in a post I wrote to addict-l I suggested

> that it is more appropriate to consider ppl with a genetic

> resistance to addiction as " Alcohol/Drug Hardy " rather than

> ppl with a susceptibility as having " Addictive Disease " .

>

> I was happy to see something reported recently from I

> believe the US that supports my idea. It was a report on

> the genetics of nicotine addiction.

>

> Apparently there is a gene which controls production of an

> enzyme that breaks down nicotine. In abt 20% of

> non-smokers it is defective, but in only 10% of smokers.

> Ppl with the defective gene take longer to eliminate

> nicotine from their system. The result is that smoking

> produces higher nicotine levels and hence deters the person

> from smoking more often. also, as elimination is slower,

> withdrawal is less acute and less craving is felt when the

> person stops smoking - hence they are less likely to get

> addicted.

>

> This is a fine example as predicted by my " Addiciton

> Hardiness " theory. It is the *non-addicts* who possess the

> defective gene. In other words, in the absence of

> nicotine, having an " addictive nature " - at least in regard

> to nicotine - is arguably the natural, healthier state.

>

> I believe similar factors apply to alcohol and possibly

> other drugs. what association with genetics showed by

> alcoholism is not a result of a " genetic disease of

> alcoholism " but the fact that over thousands of years of

> alcohol use, especially the last 500 or so of distilled

> spirits, there has been an evolutionary pressure to

> " alcohol hardiness " that most ppl have inherited, but some

> not. however, this lack of hardiness is no justification

> whatsoever for considering them " diseased " . if anything,

> alcohol-hardy ppl are the ones " diseased " - they have had

> to make a metabolic compromise in an alcohol using

> environment. The distinction is important because all the

> horse manure abt " alcoholic/addict personality " etc is

> completely nailed from a genetic perspective - there is no

> reason at all for suggesting these ppl have anything wrong

> with them genetically.

>

> Pete

> ----------------------

> Cool Briton

>

> PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST:

> http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

> _____________________

> " Every great scientist is part B.F. Skinner and part P.T. Barnum "

> - Bart Simpson's science teacher

>

>

>

> ----

> Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/12-step-free/

> To unsubscribe, email to 12-step-free-unsubscribe@...

> To subscribe, email to 12-step-free-subscribe@...

> --

> Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com !

>

>

Pete

----------------------

Cool Briton

PERSONALITY-DISORDERS LIST:

http://rdz.acor.org/athenaeum/lists.phtml?personality-disorders

_____________________

" Every great scientist is part B.F. Skinner and part P.T. Barnum "

- Bart Simpson's science teacher

----

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