Re: Proposed New Paramedic Curriculum

[Guest guest]

Just a thought here.

Many people in EMS make an affordable living now. Licensure is suppose to

be a career elevation for those who want to make a long and prosperous

career. But there are only so many positions available to fully utilized

LP's if the majority of medics became licensed. (Don't you think?)

If it takes several years to become LP's and you double or triple the length

of the course and end up being a field medic for years, it could mess with

your mind as being a waste, maybe?.

Also, their are many paramedics in southern counties of texas who do not

count on income from that certification for a living, but do it out of care

and commitment to their community. Their are many counties currently who

only run BLS with ECA's and EMT-B's and cannot attract people to spent 12-17

months out of their lives to complete a paramedic course and not receive

compensation to meet their financial obligations. Don't you think doubling

or tripling the amount of hours for the paramedic course will eventually

effect other counties who can barely staff an ALS or MICU unit to join those

counties without?

It is very enjoyable to live in a community where EMS and Transport services

thrive and support a good size work force for many EMS personnel. But of

what benefit can it serve to the smaller communities that can not generate

the income needed or offer incentives to get J.Q. Public interested in

serving their community as a paramedic?

I would welcome certified paramedics trained at the current standards to

treat me in case of illness or injury in these smaller counties if available

and I would have to be happy to be helped by ECA's if that is all their is

because these people surely don't do it for the pay.

Jessie

>From: R645@...

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: Nurses

>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:33:04 EST

>

>To the Discussion Group,

>

>I believe that we, the EMS profession, should start in our own group with

>improving our profession. I do not want to be a nurse. That is why I have

>spent 25 years in prehospital care. I started in the industry in 1975. I

>completed paramedic school in 1980. I received my AAS in Paramedicine in

>1983. I worked to get the license so I could be recognized as a

> " professional. "

>

>Now we are arguing about raising the minimum hours from 400 to 1200, with a

>compromise of 700. If we want to sit at the table and be an equal, let's

>have an education process like the other professions. We are our own worst

>enemy. That is, we are the people that want to sit back and complain about

>low pay and not being respected, yet want to lessen the national standard.

>

>Unfortunately, we cannot protect people from themselves.

>

>Randy E. FF/LP

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>If you took Podimin™, Redux®, or the combination " Fen-Phen, "

>visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice package

>explaining your rights under the class settlement.

>http://click./1/833/3/_/4981/_/951438791/

>

>-- Check out your group's private Chat room

>-- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the information about the proposed hour changes in the paramedic

curriculum. The course I attended 10 years ago was about 650 hours to

include the clinicals and the better courses around town were a little more.

If the finale rules outcome is as you say, then their might be little

change.

But, there is still a problem of paramedic shortages around texas. There

needs to be an effort to give these people in those communities a chance to

have a higher level of service available. More than just the opportunity of

a free tuition to those willing to give of themselves. Whats the answer???

Also, I did not mean to exclude any counties in north texas where the

population is small in numbers. I'm sure there are many counties all over

this state with this problems. I am just a bit more familiar with the one

in south texas.

And what do I believe is a decent wage? Enough to pay the rent, buy food

for my family of 5, gas to get me where i need to be, honor my God, and a

little to save and a little to spend. If you cant live within the wages you

earn, you really need to find a better employer.

(Whether its at ABC Ambulance or a Fortune 500 company.) Its been my

experience that what most people get(not all), is pretty much in proportion

with what they put in.

Jessie

>

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: Re: Proposed New Paramedic Curriculum

>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:04:40 -0600

>

>Hello All,

>

>Myth #1

>

>Don't confuse the issue of the new curricula with Licensed Paramedics. The

>new

>curricula will still only breed certified paramedics. By completing the new

>curricula you do not automatically become a licensed paramedic.

>

>Myth #2

>

>The new curricula will force everyone to go to 1200 hour paramedic courses.

>It

>is projected that if you teach a average student the new curricula that it

>should last around 1200 hours. However, it is also projected that the

>minimum #

>of hours is around 650. Essentially, what this means is: Those that are

>currently teaching a 400 hour minimum paramedic course( don't want them

>working

>on me) will only have to increase their minimum by 250 hours. Many are

>teaching

>well above the minimum at this time. Most courses should only reasonably

>have to

>increase their course length around 250 more hours than they are currently

>teaching. I do believe that some will increase more than that. I don't

>think

>that anyone really knows what it will take to teach the new curricula until

>the

>first course has been taught in Texas.

>

>Myth #3

>

>Texas will continue to be respected in the nations EMS community if we do

>not

>adopt the new curricula.

>

>Myth #4

>

>You don't have to be educated to deliver pre hospital healthcare in Texas.

>

>What am I in favor of doing?

>

> I am in favor of moving forward with the new DOT curricula. Set the

>minimum

>at 650 or 700 whatever the current thinking is it could possibly be taught

>in. I

>am also against the pass fail exam. (Directly opposite of my vote on the

>EMS

>committee) I am in favor of supporting the Medical Directors ability to

>administer their own exam for their respective departments if that is what

>they

>want to do. I would hope that they would be able to develop an exam that

>would

>test competency. The current exam does not.

>

>

>Henry Barber

>

>jessie davis wrote:

>

> > Just a thought here.

> >

> > Many people in EMS make an affordable living now. Licensure is suppose

>to

> > be a career elevation for those who want to make a long and prosperous

> > career. But there are only so many positions available to fully utilized

> > LP's if the majority of medics became licensed. (Don't you think?)

> >

> > If it takes several years to become LP's and you double or triple the

>length

> > of the course and end up being a field medic for years, it could mess

>with

> > your mind as being a waste, maybe?.

> >

> > Also, their are many paramedics in southern counties of texas who do not

> > count on income from that certification for a living, but do it out of

>care

> > and commitment to their community. Their are many counties currently

>who

> > only run BLS with ECA's and EMT-B's and cannot attract people to spent

>12-17

> > months out of their lives to complete a paramedic course and not receive

> > compensation to meet their financial obligations. Don't you think

>doubling

> > or tripling the amount of hours for the paramedic course will eventually

> > effect other counties who can barely staff an ALS or MICU unit to join

>those

> > counties without?

> >

> > It is very enjoyable to live in a community where EMS and Transport

>services

> > thrive and support a good size work force for many EMS personnel. But

>of

> > what benefit can it serve to the smaller communities that can not

>generate

> > the income needed or offer incentives to get J.Q. Public interested in

> > serving their community as a paramedic?

> >

> > I would welcome certified paramedics trained at the current standards to

> > treat me in case of illness or injury in these smaller counties if

>available

> > and I would have to be happy to be helped by ECA's if that is all their

>is

> > because these people surely don't do it for the pay.

> >

> > Jessie

> >

> > >From: R645@...

> > >Reply-To: egroups

> > >To: egroups

> > >Subject: Nurses

> > >Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:33:04 EST

> > >

> > >To the Discussion Group,

> > >

> > >I believe that we, the EMS profession, should start in our own group

>with

> > >improving our profession. I do not want to be a nurse. That is why I

>have

> > >spent 25 years in prehospital care. I started in the industry in 1975.

> I

> > >completed paramedic school in 1980. I received my AAS in Paramedicine

>in

> > >1983. I worked to get the license so I could be recognized as a

> > > " professional. "

> > >

> > >Now we are arguing about raising the minimum hours from 400 to 1200,

>with a

> > >compromise of 700. If we want to sit at the table and be an equal,

>let's

> > >have an education process like the other professions. We are our own

>worst

> > >enemy. That is, we are the people that want to sit back and complain

>about

> > >low pay and not being respected, yet want to lessen the national

>standard.

> > >

> > >Unfortunately, we cannot protect people from themselves.

> > >

> > >Randy E. FF/LP

> > >

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > >If you took Podimin™, Redux®, or the combination " Fen-Phen, "

> > >visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice package

> > >explaining your rights under the class settlement.

> > >http://click./1/833/3/_/4981/_/951438791/

> > >

> > >-- Check out your group's private Chat room

> > >-- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

> > >

> > >

> >

> > ______________________________________________________

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw.

> > FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal

> > information! Take advantage of this offer and go to

> > Findlaw.com now!

> > http://click./1/1827/3/_/4981/_/951441431/

> >

> > -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

> > -- /cal?listname= & m=1

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw.

>FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal

>information! Take advantage of this offer and go to

>Findlaw.com now!

>http://click./1/1827/3/_/4981/_/951444222/

>

>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!

>-- /vote?listname= & m=1

>

><< hbarber.vcf >>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Very well said Mr.

[Guest guest]

Please define what you believe to be an affordable living?

J. Tischler

FF/EMT-P/PO

[Guest guest]

The one thing that I would like all of you to take a very close look at is

how the clinicals are done, such as ER for instance, as paramedics we go in

there and start a few IV's and may be if your very lucky a tube or two. Next

CCU,, a student looks at a few cardiac monitors and maybe see a code, Well

slam me if you will, but i think about 90% of the clinicals should be done

out it the field in the back of an Ambulance instead of in an emergency room

where most of the time the nurses and doctors think you are just there to

bother them,, I am all for the New Paramedic Curriculum, but I am not for

clinicals that don't teach a new EMT any thing,,

Just my Opinion,,,,,,,,Jim

[Guest guest]

i totally agree with doing more clinicals in the field. most of the nurses

let you get a few vitals, pulse ox, and maybe a iv if they like you, and what

is that teaching us?? i honestly learned about 5% of anything i would call

what i would use in the field, and alot about changing beds and ivs..

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

Myth #1

Don't confuse the issue of the new curricula with Licensed Paramedics.

The new curricula will still only breed certified paramedics. By completing

the new curricula you do not automatically become a licensed paramedic.

Myth #2

The new curricula will force everyone to go to 1200 hour paramedic courses.

It is projected that if you teach a average student the new curricula that

it should last around 1200 hours. However, it is also projected that the

minimum # of hours is around 650. Essentially, what this means is: Those

that are currently teaching a 400 hour minimum paramedic course( don't

want them working on me) will only have to increase their minimum by 250

hours. Many are teaching well above the minimum at this time. Most courses

should only reasonably have to increase their course length around 250

more hours than they are currently teaching. I do believe that some will

increase more than that. I don't think that anyone really knows what it

will take to teach the new curricula until the first course has been taught

in Texas.

Myth #3

Texas will continue to be respected in the nations EMS community if

we do not adopt the new curricula.

Myth #4

You don't have to be educated to deliver pre hospital healthcare in

Texas.

What am I in favor of doing?

I am in favor of moving forward with the new DOT

curricula. Set the minimum at 650 or 700 whatever the current thinking

is it could possibly be taught in. I am also against the pass fail exam.

(Directly opposite of my vote on the EMS committee) I am in favor of supporting

the Medical Directors ability to administer their own exam for their respective

departments if that is what they want to do. I would hope that they would

be able to develop an exam that would test competency. The current exam

does not.

Henry Barber

jessie davis wrote:

Just a thought here.

Many people in EMS make an affordable living now. Licensure is

suppose to

be a career elevation for those who want to make a long and prosperous

career. But there are only so many positions available to fully utilized

LP's if the majority of medics became licensed. (Don't you think?)

If it takes several years to become LP's and you double or triple the

length

of the course and end up being a field medic for years, it could mess

with

your mind as being a waste, maybe?.

Also, their are many paramedics in southern counties of texas who do

not

count on income from that certification for a living, but do it out

of care

and commitment to their community. Their are many counties currently

who

only run BLS with ECA's and EMT-B's and cannot attract people to spent

12-17

months out of their lives to complete a paramedic course and not receive

compensation to meet their financial obligations. Don't you think

doubling

or tripling the amount of hours for the paramedic course will eventually

effect other counties who can barely staff an ALS or MICU unit to join

those

counties without?

It is very enjoyable to live in a community where EMS and Transport

services

thrive and support a good size work force for many EMS personnel.

But of

what benefit can it serve to the smaller communities that can not generate

the income needed or offer incentives to get J.Q. Public interested

in

serving their community as a paramedic?

I would welcome certified paramedics trained at the current standards

to

treat me in case of illness or injury in these smaller counties if

available

and I would have to be happy to be helped by ECA's if that is all their

is

because these people surely don't do it for the pay.

Jessie

>From: R645@...

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: Nurses

>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:33:04 EST

>

>To the Discussion Group,

>

>I believe that we, the EMS profession, should start in our own group

with

>improving our profession. I do not want to be a nurse.

That is why I have

>spent 25 years in prehospital care. I started in the industry

in 1975. I

>completed paramedic school in 1980. I received my AAS in Paramedicine

in

>1983. I worked to get the license so I could be recognized as

a

>"professional."

>

>Now we are arguing about raising the minimum hours from 400 to 1200,

with a

>compromise of 700. If we want to sit at the table and be an

equal, let's

>have an education process like the other professions. We are

our own worst

>enemy. That is, we are the people that want to sit back and

complain about

>low pay and not being respected, yet want to lessen the national standard.

>

>Unfortunately, we cannot protect people from themselves.

>

>Randy E. FF/LP

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>If you took Podimin™, Redux®, or the combination "Fen-Phen,"

>visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice package

>explaining your rights under the class settlement.

>http://click./1/833/3/_/4981/_/951438791/

>

>-- Check out your group's private Chat room

>-- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

>

>

______________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw.

FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal

information! Take advantage of this offer and go to

Findlaw.com now!

http://click./1/1827/3/_/4981/_/951441431/

-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

-- /cal?listname= & m=1

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

Steve:

I can't help but agree with you. As for the crossroads thing, I don't know

if you were referring to me or to Jessie about that. I reached that

crossroads many years ago and decided to remain in EMS and make a long-term

career with it. As a result, I've had experience with just about every

aspect of EMS operations, with the exception perhaps of tactical EMS. I'm

very satisfied with the financial aspects of my current EMS-related job, but

I've never forgotten how hard the road was and how many times we could have

done more or better were it not for idiots with social myopia. I have

enough non-EMS experience on my resume, and degrees to back it up, that I

could walk away from this tomorrow and do quite nicely for myself.

My concern with all this is not about my personal stake. I'm concerned for

the medics who are being asked to do a job that gets harder and harder for

which they DO need a better type of education and training than I and my

contemporaries were provided. I know they will never get the pay they

deserve as practicing medics and the opportunities they deserve without it.

I'm also concerned for the citizens in a lot of areas of our state, whose

interests are not being represented by TDH and their local EMS services and

who don't know any better until tradgedy strikes. They deserve better than

they are getting, or at least deserve the chance to be fully aware of what

they are getting and decide if its is good enough. I guess also, to a small

degree, I don't want to see all we worked for and pushed to achieve dumbed

down and allowed to deteriorate. There was a lot of blood, sweat, and

beers...., uh, I mean tears, that went into this thing we call EMS in Texas.

Be safe, Steve

Dave

Re: Proposed New Paramedic Curriculum

>>>>> snip-ola<<<

> You, by your posting to this listserver, are clearly at a crossroads. You

> will never be rich, nor will you ever change the world by wearing a red

> patch. You will be rewarded financially by what the market will bear, and

> spiritually by taking each victory as it comes, and taking it for what

it's

> worth.

>

>>>>snip-aroony<<<<<

> I said before that you are at a crossroads. You have to decide if you can

> live on warm fuzzies like the example I have given, or if you have to make

> the bucks. If you are truly driven by the ideal of service, the

> opportunities to be of service are present in every call we run. You just

> have to be able, in your mind, to turn those little things that you can do

> to make those disasterous situations we walk into every day into the

> currency or our trade- the satisfaction of being there to make a

difference

> in the lives of those few people we see each day.

>

> I challenge you to see each call as an opportunity to not only be a

bad-ass

> medic who can convert Moses, but as a medic who can take compassion for

> those who remain, and for those who persist. If you came to this field

> really to serve that community, there is no better, or for that matter,

more

> rewarding place to be.

>

> J. Pike, EMT-P

>

> P. S. By the way, if there's a shortage in paramedics, the law of supply

and

> demand takes over. The more rare we are, the more valuable we are.