Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Dave, Again you use an analogy that sums it up perfectly. With these comments I have no disagreement. I wish we could come up with a master plan that all could agree on. I think the first step is to determine from each group what they gotta have, would like to have, and what they could either take or leave. I bet if someone or some organization could get all that together, we would find that we are not that far apart. Once we found what we agreed on, we could then work on compromises to finish the project. Right now all we are doing is standing toe to toe sticking our tongues out at each other. Foo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 **just look @dallas fire.......if thats not a wake up call....i dont know what is rick > >Reply-To: egroups >To: <egroups> >Subject: Re: New Curriculum >Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:03:34 -0600 > > >Gerald: > >Now you've touched a nerve, ol' son. How many privates have prescreened a >call (I assume you mean 911)? If they have the duty to respond and they >don't respond to a 911, they are committing a crime. If they do that, they >should be reported and prosecuted. I know TDH would jump all over them. How >many fire department EMS services get on a scene, decide the patient is 911 >enough for them, and direct the patient to call a private ambulance? >Probably just as many as there are private EMS services that prescreen 911 >calls for payment possibility. I know of FD services for which that is SOP. >I don't know of any 911-responding privates for which it is true. Don't >start that " only FD and volunteer EMS services are interested in patients >over profits " crap. It won't wash. It is an emotional argument that has no >basis in fact and can be proven false by numerous case studies. Most >private >service paramedics are firm advocates for their patients, just as your >people are. Let's leave that kind of drum beating out of this if we're >going >to have a rationale argument. > >Dave > Re: New Curriculum > > > > In a message dated 02/09/2000 09:05:21 AM Central Standard Time, > > spanky_01@... writes: > > > > << Please put down the pipe and stop smoking that SH*T and > > look at the overall picture. >> > > > > Maybe you should look at what cities spend overall for other things and > > realize what paramedicine does for the citizen versus sidewalks and > > monuments. Since many people believe that property is more valuable >that > > life, it is our job to educate them. Maybe a change in management is > > necessary to educate them. We do a great job of that here with little >cost. > > Our biggest fight is that everyone tries to scare away any advancement >of > > our > > profession with the TAX word. That is why Fire Departments all over the > > nation are trying to get into the medical world. They spend billions on > > saving property and very little on saving lives. It is hard to justify. > > Especially with suppression what it is today. No one wants a highly >trained > > paramedic until they need one, but everyone want a highly trained fire > > department, even if they never need it. > > > > Andy Foote, EMTP > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950109293/ > > > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950110233/ > > > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. >http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950140130/ > >eGroups.com Home: /group// > - Simplifying group communications > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 In a message dated 2/9/00 5:00:17 PM Central Standard Time, Foofarraw@... writes: << 2) The person that owns the master aol.com account would fade some heat and cut me off. (probably OK with some) Sorry, but this is BS. I took the liberty of checking out your profile before you changed it! 3) Since I use the computer at work my employer might be involved (remember when people on the list were calling and writing other peoples employers and sending them copies of what was posted) That could be bad for job security. >> Oh yeah, I remember something about someone forwarding comments to Jay and Jack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 In a message dated 02/09/00 8:26:41 PM Central Standard Time, jordan78@... writes: << No flaming, just my opinion is that until I see a real name, your messages are deleted from now on. >> In my opinion, this is probably a good plan of action. Lack of response can say a lot. Maxine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 In a message dated 02/09/00 8:30:08 PM Central Standard Time, jordan78@... writes: << What!?! Did you think that a few put downs from you was going to send running!??!!! >> Actually, if my memory is correct, Dr. Bledsoe recently considered not participating in this group any longer and then changed his mind after receiving numerous messages asking him to stay. Maybe this is what __?__ is referring to. Maxine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Henry, Opinion noted and respected. Foo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Perhaps you are right. In a message dated 2/9/00 7:54:00 PM Central Standard Time, jordan78@... writes: << In my opinion, Foo (or whatever your name is), it is not that you offered your opinion, we accept those readily here on the list. The problem is, I think, that you offered that opinion in a demeaning manner. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Yes Maxine, that is exactly what I was referencing. And it was said with all sincerity. It seems that I have now been put in time out and that's probably best since even attempts to be nice and show respect are met with flames. Foo In a message dated 2/9/00 9:13:18 PM Central Standard Time, LPate@... writes: << Actually, if my memory is correct, Dr. Bledsoe recently considered not participating in this group any longer and then changed his mind after receiving numerous messages asking him to stay. Maybe this is what __?__ is referring to. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 And yet the question goes on as to what will become of those people who are currently Intermediates or are currently enrolled in Intermediate school. This issue must also be addressed. I would think it wouldn't be fair for them either to have to go back to a lot of school or to not have any credit given to them toward their Paramedic training. For instance, our new curriculum at TJC for Paramedic will encompass 6 semesters. We are still training Intermediates now. We must devise some sort of a bridge for them to whatever we adopt for new Intermediates and/or toward the sections of Paramedic that pertain to them. Any thoughts? Jane Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Get a life, FOO, whoever you are. Normally I do not reply to those who do not identify themselves. Anonymous letters should go directly into the cybertrashbin, which is where yours is headed as soon as I can hit this button. Gene Gandy, JD, LP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 I consider Emergency Medical Services to be one of the items that should be provided along with electricity, gas, water, streets, sewers, animal control, fire fighting and law enforcement, to name a few. Last time I looked, I paid for these services in one way or another. I pay directly for electricity, gas, phone, water and sewer. I pay taxes for law enforcement and fire protection and, yes, I'm willing to pay my share for good EMS even if it means a slight increase in taxes. For the record I pay membership of $48 per year to a private provider and consider it the bargain of all time. Most of my friends and neighbors pay that amount per month to watch sports and HBO on cable or on their dishes. What price emergency service? It is priceless when one needs it. Gene Gandy, JD, LP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Its not that we don't like the message or the messenger, we would like to know who we are talking to sense we are not in a chat room. Henry Foofarraw@... wrote: Wow,....(patting out the last of the flames) It would seem that I have gored the sacred ox. Not my intent, just offering a counter point. But I guess that that is something still not tolerated on this board but I will trudge ahead anyway. Your posts are so numerous it's going to take me some time to respond to each so it may take me several posts to respond but I appreciate the opportunity. Remember each of us has a delete key if we don't like the message/messenger. Foo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950129283/ -- Create a poll/survey for your group! -- /vote?listname= & m=1 Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Gerald: Now you've touched a nerve, ol' son. How many privates have prescreened a call (I assume you mean 911)? If they have the duty to respond and they don't respond to a 911, they are committing a crime. If they do that, they should be reported and prosecuted. I know TDH would jump all over them. How many fire department EMS services get on a scene, decide the patient is 911 enough for them, and direct the patient to call a private ambulance? Probably just as many as there are private EMS services that prescreen 911 calls for payment possibility. I know of FD services for which that is SOP. I don't know of any 911-responding privates for which it is true. Don't start that " only FD and volunteer EMS services are interested in patients over profits " crap. It won't wash. It is an emotional argument that has no basis in fact and can be proven false by numerous case studies. Most private service paramedics are firm advocates for their patients, just as your people are. Let's leave that kind of drum beating out of this if we're going to have a rationale argument. Dave Re: New Curriculum > > In a message dated 02/09/2000 09:05:21 AM Central Standard Time, > spanky_01@... writes: > > << Please put down the pipe and stop smoking that SH*T and > look at the overall picture. >> > > Maybe you should look at what cities spend overall for other things and > realize what paramedicine does for the citizen versus sidewalks and > monuments. Since many people believe that property is more valuable that > life, it is our job to educate them. Maybe a change in management is > necessary to educate them. We do a great job of that here with little cost. > Our biggest fight is that everyone tries to scare away any advancement of > our > profession with the TAX word. That is why Fire Departments all over the > nation are trying to get into the medical world. They spend billions on > saving property and very little on saving lives. It is hard to justify. > Especially with suppression what it is today. No one wants a highly trained > paramedic until they need one, but everyone want a highly trained fire > department, even if they never need it. > > Andy Foote, EMTP > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950109293/ > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950110233/ > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Yes the message is important. However, so is integrity. Since we are in America, a man should be willing to back up what he says with his good name. If you fear reprisal, you should refrain from comment until you can legally respond. Not knocking you, just my point of view. Henry Foofarraw@... wrote: > Henry, > > Since I am on a borrowed account, if I was to sign them there are a couple of > possible complications. > > 1) It would mean nothing since you would not know me. I am just another patch > in a unit. > 2) The person that owns the master aol.com account would fade some heat and > cut me off. (probably OK with some) > 3) Since I use the computer at work my employer might be involved (remember > when people on the list were calling and writing other peoples employers and > sending them copies of what was posted) That could be bad for job security. > > Anyway....isn't the important thing the message rather than the messenger. > > Foo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950137070/ > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault > -- /docvault//?m=1 Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 In a message dated 2/9/00 10:33:56 PM Central Standard Time, medic720@... writes: << Foo, My finger sure is getting tired of hitting that delete button. However, the curiosity is killing me!!! Who are you and where do you work??? , FF/LP/NREMTP >> FOO? Hmmm, sounds like Chinese food to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 , I believe you're right, there are so many people with their torches out there, that I'm almost afraid to say anything any more. That's not what this list is about. If these people were talking to the persons they are flaming in person, would they still say the same thing the same way? It's like a bunch of kids sometimes; let's be professionals, guy and gals! Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!! Jana FW,TX Re: New Curriculum > In a message dated 2/9/00 7:57:48 AM Central Standard Time, Foofarraw@... > writes: > > << Dr. Bledsoe, > > Hmmmmmmm. Interesting comments. I do wonder though if you intended to insult > every private operator in the state or if that was just an added benefit of > your comments. I believe that you are painting with an awfully broad brush > and I am offended by your portrayal of our brothers and sisters that work > for > private providers and the direct accusation that privates " operates on the > back of underpaid EMS personnel. " What a ridiculous statement to make from > someone so educated. The laws of supply and demand and perceived value > dictate salaries, and you sir know it. I and others have said it before on > this board and I have not changed my position that until the public sees EMS > as a vital function we will never receive the pay or the respect and > recognition that we deserve. Whether you like it or not, privates are here > to > stay and this kind of attack does nothing to bridge the gaps that are > currently dividing EMS. Maybe we should take your position one step further > and force all of our brother EMT/Paramedics that work for privates to wear a > big green " P " on their back so we all can stay away from them. The green of > course is for money. > > I have taken the liberty of forwarding your comments about PUM's to both > Jack > Stout and to Jay Fitch both of whom are deeply involved in the development > of > PUM's and I hope they have the time or the inclination to comment. If I > receive anything back I will post it here for all to see. If they send it to > you I would ask that you do the same. > > I will close here as it's almost shift change and I've got a truck to clean > but again, I am very disappointed that someone of your position in the EMS > community would post a note here on the list server that widens the gap > between EMS instead of closes it. I would have expected more out of a leader > in the industry such as yourself. I believe you have taken an unnecessarily > cheap shot at all of our brothers and sisters that are affiliated with the > private sector. Remember, that private sector medics buys your books and the > providers hire the students that you turn out too. > > > Foo>> > > > Isn't it a shame that someone always looks for something to " flame " anothr > person about. Isn't a shame that so many people are so thin skinned? Why is > it that people take what other people, Bledsoe and others, take out of > context. Aren't these the ones that talk about not causing division in the > troops? > > Just my thoughts, > > > > TODAY'S THOUGHT: Vision is the art of seeing things invisivle > > athan Swift > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950106838/ > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 In my opinion, Foo (or whatever your name is), it is not that you offered your opinion, we accept those readily here on the list. The problem is, I think, that you offered that opinion in a demeaning manner. We are not here to put each other down or tattle to others in EMS about something that was said here on the list; we are here to learn from each other, help each other with problems/questions, and support each other when we've had a trying day or a difficult call. We also have the courtesy to use our real names on the messages we send, even if some of us aren't able to figure out the gender all the time! LOL!!!! Have a great day! Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!! Jana FW,TX Re: New Curriculum > Wow,....(patting out the last of the flames) > > It would seem that I have gored the sacred ox. Not my intent, just offering > a counter point. But I guess that that is something still not tolerated on > this board but I will trudge ahead anyway. > > Your posts are so numerous it's going to take me some time to respond to each > so it may take me several posts to respond but I appreciate the opportunity. > Remember each of us has a delete key if we don't like the message/messenger. > > Foo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950129283/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname= & m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 It is also important to me to know where the message comes from. I was taught to never take information at face value, you have to know your source and know whether it's trustworthy among other things. Others have signed their name and then placed a disclaimer that it is not the opinion of the employer, etc. No flaming, just my opinion is that until I see a real name, your messages are deleted from now on. Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!! Jana FW,TX Re: New Curriculum > Henry, > > Since I am on a borrowed account, if I was to sign them there are a couple of > possible complications. > > 1) It would mean nothing since you would not know me. I am just another patch > in a unit. > 2) The person that owns the master aol.com account would fade some heat and > cut me off. (probably OK with some) > 3) Since I use the computer at work my employer might be involved (remember > when people on the list were calling and writing other peoples employers and > sending them copies of what was posted) That could be bad for job security. > > Anyway....isn't the important thing the message rather than the messenger. > > Foo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950137070/ > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault > -- /docvault//?m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 What!?! Did you think that a few put downs from you was going to send running!??!!! ROFL!!!!! Sorry, just couldn't resist this one. Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!! Jana FW,TX Re: New Curriculum > , > > Perhaps then I misunderstood. From your writings I gathered that the people > and the services were the focus of your aim. My point was that just as there > are good docs and bad ones, good hospitals and bad ones and good FD's and bad > ones, there are good privates and employees and well as bad and they should > not all be covered by the same blanket. > > My intent in forwarding your comments was to allow Jack and Jay to share > their perspectives of the PUM. You obviously have yours and were willing to > share it, wouldn't it be interesting to see what they had to say. I guess not > everyone agrees with hearing what they have to say, so be it. > > By the way, I'm glad to see that you decided to stay on the list. You bring > an interesting insight (or incite) to this place. > > Foo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950139371/ > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2000 Report Share Posted February 9, 2000 Foo, My finger sure is getting tired of hitting that delete button. However, the curiosity is killing me!!! Who are you and where do you work??? , FF/LP/NREMTPmedic720@... " Live your Life. Respect its Brevity. " Re: New Curriculum Dave, Again you use an analogy that sums it up perfectly. With these comments I have no disagreement. I wish we could come up with a master plan that all could agree on. I think the first step is to determine from each group what they gotta have, would like to have, and what they could either take or leave. I bet if someone or some organization could get all that together, we would find that we are not that far apart. Once we found what we agreed on, we could then work on compromises to finish the project. Right now all we are doing is standing toe to toe sticking our tongues out at each other. Foo eGroups.com Home: /group/www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2000 Report Share Posted February 10, 2000 In a message dated 2/9/2000 8:09:17 AM Central Standard Time, Foofarraw@... writes: << Foo >> I tried to ask out of the post but AOL says you are not a known member, so, I'll ask in here. Why do you work for a Private service if you are ashamed to talk about them or mention where you work? Edwin Jennings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2000 Report Share Posted February 10, 2000 i strongly agreee --- Ezemt@... wrote: > In a message dated 2/9/2000 8:09:17 AM Central > Standard Time, > Foofarraw@... writes: > > << Foo >> > I tried to ask out of the post but AOL says you are > not a known member, so, > I'll ask in here. Why do you work for a Private > service if you are ashamed to > talk about them or mention where you work? > Edwin Jennings > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops > to tablesaws. > http://click./1/664/3/_/4981/_/950240583/ > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > -- > /VoiceChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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