Re: Re:

[Guest guest]

Hi, Carol here. I think you might like the approach which Rational Recovery

takes to making a covenant to abstinence. As I've said RR is a friend to

religion of any sort but sees the danger in AA conversions as that leaves

people confused and afraid. God liberates and helps those who help

themselves so it is logical that he wouldn't mind people taking control of

themselves with a return to traditional values. Take a look at

Http://www.rational.org or go to my friend's website for an interesting

view of the literature of non-disease thinking at the

Http://www.BCRecovernet.org

Take Care,

Enjoy,

Carol

10:26 PM 2/26/99 -0600, you wrote:

>Tommy,

>

>You asked:

>

>>What are your grounds for asking such a question to " other " ?

>

>I could ask, what are your grounds for asking the question above, but I

>won't because I really do not understand your question.

>

>Did I do something wrong by asking a question to Joe? I am not immune to

>making mistakes, especially when I am in a new situation as I am on this

>list.

>

>Joe didn't mind my asking. Did it bother you? Tell me what I am doing

>wrong and I will try to improve.

>

>The Chaplain

>Enjoy God's presence face-to-face.

>Read GOD 101 at

>http://www.christian-community.org

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Internet FileZone: Always FREE!

>Instantly store & access your valuable PC files on the net,

>from any Web browser.

>SIGN UP NOW - http://offers./click/235/0

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:00 AM 4/30/99 +0100, you wrote:

>Hello to this list.

>

>I have been lurking since February. The reason I have

>not posted any messages before now is that I came out on another, similar

>list, said who I was and mentioned my feelings about AA, and what I thought

>about alcoholism. I was immediately shot down and

>informed that alcoholism was a (genetic) disease - and this in an anti-AA

>list - and was eventually removed by the moderator.

>

>The main reason I am posting now is that my attitudes to AA are changing

>fast and I want to share this with this group as its thinking has been very

>important to me over the last few months.

>

>Like Joe, I come from Edinburgh, where I got sober and now live. After

>university I moved to France and spent 28 years there, until my life

>collapsed around me and I reverted to the place I came from - I think in

>order to discover and placate my roots.

>

>I owe my life and my health to AA.

You may owe your life from someone who just happened to be in AA. Good

people can be anywhere. Even down in the skids. Or across the fence or at

the church or in an educational class. What is AA that saved you? How?

I was one of those alcoholics that was

>deeply unhappy in childhood and who took to alcohol in late adolescence,

>subsequently

>following a 'classic' progression to a complete rock bottom - where I had

>lost my mind and was quite irrational - and rebirth experience. This was in

>July 1997.

Were you an alcoholic in childhood?

Where did you learn this progression to " bottom " ?

>So far so good. Subsequently, I went to 6-10 meetings a week and got a lot

>out of them, progressively recovering and learning about myself.

What did you learn about yourself in AA? No tease, I'm open.

After 6

>months I got depressed as I felt I had to choose between, on the one hand

>believing impossible

>things, quoted by people who obviously didn't understand them or the

>objections to them. and thereby recovering, and on the other respecting my

>reason and

>contradicting nearly everyone in a circle of kind and otherwise helpful

>friends -

>basically the only ones I had. Having come into AA to recover my reason, I

>didn't particularly want to throw it away.

>

>I resolved the situation by learning more effective use of metaphor thus

>freeing myself to follow my intuition, which took me to ACOA.

Did you always think the answers to life were outside of you?

It's so much in our society. Maybe cause there is so little neighbourhood

community. So people look for the answers in other people's eyes. Many

people do.And it isn't that great that the answers don't cause it would be

easier than looking in the mirror and saying Hell, damn, I am responsible.

They aren't any more aware about me than me. They can't be. They've got

them to look after and into.Sometimes thats a bummer.

This helped me

>a lot. I then progressed to a therapist whom I still see and who is helping

>me handle buried memories that had been traumatic to me, and which I place

>at the root of the personality disorder I had, and which I recognise as a

>dissociative disorder or a form of NPD.

If you get a good therapists then yes you will feel validated and

bolstered. Many don't get good ones. The sleeping ones, the catatonic ones,

the clock watchers, those who won't reveal themselves at all. The Alice

book " Thou Shalt Not Be Aware. " is a good one for processing

disempowerment through childhood abuse.

>Every time I tried to cut down on m,meetings I found I needed the emotional

>support so I kept the meetings up, and I attribute my fast-lane recovery to

>my doting this.

I think that the good place for people who seek emotional involvement would

be a women's group, church group, but not a group which supports

powerlessness.

And with your innovative mind and intelligence you would use them there.

> But I was always innovative and iconoclastic, which

>intrigued some and irritated others.

Matters came to a head when some old

>guy told me that you could be too intelligent for the program but never too

>stupid; I pointed out that the only logical conclusion you could draw

>from that was that the program was bullshit. Obviously I was too young in

>recovery to understand.

>

>During this whole period I have watched younger friends taken over by 'new

>AA' (the cult version), which is a good deal more appealing than the smelly

>old men so common in Edinburgh AA but also a good deal more dangerous, and I

>have

>watched them being progressively brainwashed. From being a person whose

>ideas and

>empathy aided their understanding of themselves I have become (while

>remaining still a good friend) a person whose recovery is inexplicable as it

>contradicts the rules, and who moreover doesn't do the steps.

>

>I can't do the steps as they are religious; they are not even spiritual as

>they lead one back in to the steps rather than out to a new awareness, and

Well put!

>in any case I think they are just a tool for controlling unruly or

>frustrated impulses. They promise me serenity, which I already have, and

>spiritual awakening, which I also have.

>

>I needed another source of support and so set up a freethinking discussion

>group with a friend, who has recently left AA, started drinking and then

>decided to stop because he wanted to stop, Targeting AA and non-AA persons

>alike. Many people are interested, and the meetings we have had have been

>very interesting. My young cult friends just don't understand. Suddenly,

>about 6 weeks ago, I developed a feeling of great irritation when in

>meetings, and this feeling has got progressively worse. With much

>difficulty I stopped going so regularly, and felt relieved

>when I gave my time to some other pursuit (e.g. wasting it or working)

>instead. I still

>go to AA, particularly as I open 2 meetings, but I speak my mind exactly as

>I think.

This will pass too. You will stop tilting at windmills sometime.

People say I have become much clearer; but they attribute this to

>my 'head clearing', whereas I attribute it to my having made the decision to

>have confidence in my reasoning

Yeah!!!

and thus not try and fit logic into

>AA-speak. It is actually impossible.

>

>I value my AA friends and am very grateful for what AA has given me - 2

What did they give you? A place to go to. If you had choice from that place

or one without slogan and misconstrued logic would you have chosen that?

>years ago I was

>not expected to live very long - but I just cannot take the meetings,

>listening to all these people taking elaborate steps to stay in the same

>place or turning into some kind of christion heretic. I am living out in the

>world now and have just been given a job (humble but interesting); I have

>good personal contact with real people now, as I no longer people-please or

>second-guess them, at least not chronically.

>Reading this list daily reminds me that I am not a minority of one, but a

>normal person with an enquiring mind. But with the initiative I have been

>taking I am periodically beset by irrational guilt feelings -

Read: How to Argue and Win Everytime by the buckskin lawyer Gerry Spence.

He did the Silkwood trial and has never lost a case. He says the

heart zone will lead us along and gives his legal reasons why this is so.

Also Your Perfect Right. Assertiveness training. And of course Feeling Good

so you recognize the irrational thoughts and replace them with rational.

It's work, a skill and practice but my how you spell relief.

Take Care,

Fear not my inquistive mind. I have not been to a 12 step. So, enjoying

your input and my questions are really questions.

>echoes of an abusive childhood - which is precisely the kind of thing that I

>am trying to avoid. And my new group meets only once a week, whereas I spend

>7 days a week plotting away in the land of the blind.

What does this mean? Are you in the dark? Do you work underground?

>

>Hence my post.

>Graham

>

>

Curiously and caring,

Carol >

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>@Backup - #1 Online Backup Service Free for 30 days

>INSTALL now and win a Palm Pilot V!

>http://clickhere./click/137

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Graham:

The 'story' you write below, is my story within AA. AA also saved my life.

I really got hooked for about 2 years until I realized that to accept the "

God " that AA wanted me to, would be like me growing a third leg. I

became more and more vocal about the difference between Spirituality

and God. All I ever got was negative feed back. I began feeling guilty

for being 'different'. This guilt was enhanced by how my AA friends

started to respond to me, when I again began to Think.... The guilt both

provoked and reinforced by AA eventually partially responsible for a slip.

My slip was one evening of drinking... I went back to AA really feeling like

a mass murder. People stopped talking to me and that lead to a slip a

month.

I finally realized that, to an extent, I had been brain washed into the AA

philosophy and the guilt provoking nature of AA's program was in part,

making me slip...

I finally walked away about 2 or 4 months ago.... I found SOS and this

list. I now see that I am not unique and feel I am among friends, have no

criteria that I can fail, and am a bit scared.

Buddy, if you need a friend, so do I ( Don't we all!!)

Email any time... I have walked in your shoes

Jay

> Hello to this list.

>

> I have been lurking since February. The reason I have

> not posted any messages before now is that I came out on another, similar

> list, said who I was and mentioned my feelings about AA, and what I

> thought about alcoholism. I was immediately shot down and informed that

> alcoholism was a (genetic) disease - and this in an anti-AA list - and was

> eventually removed by the moderator.

>

> The main reason I am posting now is that my attitudes to AA are changing

> fast and I want to share this with this group as its thinking has been

> very important to me over the last few months.

>

> Like Joe, I come from Edinburgh, where I got sober and now live. After

> university I moved to France and spent 28 years there, until my life

> collapsed around me and I reverted to the place I came from - I think in

> order to discover and placate my roots.

>

> I owe my life and my health to AA. I was one of those alcoholics that was

> deeply unhappy in childhood and who took to alcohol in late adolescence,

> subsequently following a 'classic' progression to a complete rock bottom -

> where I had lost my mind and was quite irrational - and rebirth

> experience. This was in July 1997.

>

> So far so good. Subsequently, I went to 6-10 meetings a week and got a lot

> out of them, progressively recovering and learning about myself. After 6

> months I got depressed as I felt I had to choose between, on the one hand

> believing impossible things, quoted by people who obviously didn't

> understand them or the objections to them. and thereby recovering, and on

> the other respecting my reason and contradicting nearly everyone in a

> circle of kind and otherwise helpful friends - basically the only ones I

> had. Having come into AA to recover my reason, I didn't particularly want

> to throw it away.

>

> I resolved the situation by learning more effective use of metaphor thus

> freeing myself to follow my intuition, which took me to ACOA. This helped

> me a lot. I then progressed to a therapist whom I still see and who is

> helping me handle buried memories that had been traumatic to me, and which

> I place at the root of the personality disorder I had, and which I

> recognise as a dissociative disorder or a form of NPD.

>

> Every time I tried to cut down on m,meetings I found I needed the

> emotional support so I kept the meetings up, and I attribute my fast-lane

> recovery to my doting this. But I was always innovative and iconoclastic,

> which intrigued some and irritated others. Matters came to a head when

> some old guy told me that you could be too intelligent for the program but

> never too stupid; I pointed out that the only logical conclusion you could

> draw from that was that the program was bullshit. Obviously I was too

> young in recovery to understand.

>

> During this whole period I have watched younger friends taken over by 'new

> AA' (the cult version), which is a good deal more appealing than the

> smelly old men so common in Edinburgh AA but also a good deal more

> dangerous, and I have watched them being progressively brainwashed. From

> being a person whose ideas and empathy aided their understanding of

> themselves I have become (while remaining still a good friend) a person

> whose recovery is inexplicable as it contradicts the rules, and who

> moreover doesn't do the steps.

>

> I can't do the steps as they are religious; they are not even spiritual as

> they lead one back in to the steps rather than out to a new awareness, and

> in any case I think they are just a tool for controlling unruly or

> frustrated impulses. They promise me serenity, which I already have, and

> spiritual awakening, which I also have.

>

> I needed another source of support and so set up a freethinking discussion

> group with a friend, who has recently left AA, started drinking and then

> decided to stop because he wanted to stop, Targeting AA and non-AA

> persons alike. Many people are interested, and the meetings we have had

> have been very interesting. My young cult friends just don't understand.

> Suddenly, about 6 weeks ago, I developed a feeling of great irritation

> when in meetings, and this feeling has got progressively worse. With much

> difficulty I stopped going so regularly, and felt relieved when I gave my

> time to some other pursuit (e.g. wasting it or working) instead. I still

> go to AA, particularly as I open 2 meetings, but I speak my mind exactly

> as I think. People say I have become much clearer; but they attribute this

> to my 'head clearing', whereas I attribute it to my having made the

> decision to have confidence in my reasoning and thus not try and fit logic

> into AA-speak. It is actually impossible.

>

> I value my AA friends and am very grateful for what AA has given me - 2

> years ago I was not expected to live very long - but I just cannot take

> the meetings, listening to all these people taking elaborate steps to stay

> in the same place or turning into some kind of christion heretic. I am

> living out in the world now and have just been given a job (humble but

> interesting); I have good personal contact with real people now, as I no

> longer people-please or second-guess them, at least not chronically.

>

> Reading this list daily reminds me that I am not a minority of one, but a

> normal person with an enquiring mind. But with the initiative I have been

> taking I am periodically beset by irrational guilt feelings - themselves

> echoes of an abusive childhood - which is precisely the kind of thing that

> I am trying to avoid. And my new group meets only once a week, whereas I

> spend 7 days a week plotting away in the land of the blind.

>

> Hence my post.

> Graham

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> @Backup - #1 Online Backup Service Free for 30 days INSTALL now and win a

> Palm Pilot V! http://clickhere./click/137

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I am so sorry to hear that you are having a rough time right now. In

the state I live in, each region or town/city has what is known as a

community action program. This program helps parents w/ living

arrangement issues if they are facing eviction or involved in a

dangerous domestic situation. The parent must locate the potential

apartment and it must meet the organization's standards, but they pay

the landlord the first month's rent and security deposit. You do not

have to pay this back. They also will move quickly, inside of a couple

of weeks. You have to produce a lot of paperwork (former tax forms,

birth certificates, pay stubs, social security cards, etc), but it's

worth it. Coming up w/ the first month's rent and a security is

usually a hurdle for most people so this group really helps a lot of

women in need. I personally know a few people who have benefitted from

it. In my state the offices are located where you would find a WIC or

head start program. Maybe you should check around in your area and see

if you can get help. Last year while my dh was still in school full

time we fell behind in the elec and gas bills, and we received heating

assistance grants and an electric grant from the organization. It

might be worth checking in to. Good luck - I will be thinking about

you!

Tara

" tracy copley " wrote:

original article:/group/ectopicpregnancy/?start=5

44

> Thanks to everyone!!! I have had about all the bad luck I can handle

right

> now. Krista knows what is going on. I will fill the rest of you in.

> My boyfriend and I have been evicted from our apartment. We have

until the

> 31st of this month to move. So far, we have one apartment

possibility.

> This is the second time this year I have been thrown out of an

apartment.

> The first one was in July and I had lived there for 4 years. My

husband and

> I split up and I had no way to pay the rent.

> My two kids and I have lived with my boyfriend since then. We are

living in

> a one bedroom apartment. And it wasn't until recently that the owner

of the

> place found out. The landlord knew about us being here, but I guess

she

> failed to tell the owner. He made it very clear that we are to be

gone by

> the 31st.

> Then last night we had a severe thunderstorm. And it knocked out

half of

> the electic in our apartment. I guess we blew a fuse or breaker. I

have

> called the owner of this place and the electric company. Neither of

them

> have gotten back to us. It is really weird. Just two walls don't

have any

> power running through them. Our bathroom has an overhead light that

doesn't

> work now...so I had to take a lamp into the bathroom just so I could

see to

> bathe my kids.!!

> We are hoping for better luck. It can start anytime now!

> Thanks for listening,

>

>

>

> >From: KCHERUB@...

> >Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

> >To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

> >Subject: Re: Re:

> >Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:19:23 EDT

> >MIME-Version: 1.0

> >From ectopicpregnancy-return-534-rebel76 Thu Oct 14 21:21:06 1999

> >Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id

> >MHotMailB9CFF6340083D82197BACF8A299236A4118; Thu Oct 14 21:20:43 1999

> >X-eGroups-Return:

> >ectopicpregnancy-return-534-rebel76=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

> >Received: from [10.1.2.1] by ml. with NNFMP; 15 Oct 1999

> >05:19:41 -0000

> >Mailing-List: contact ectopicpregnancy-owneregroups

> >X-Mailing-List: ectopicpregnancyegroups

> >X-URL: /list/ectopicpregnancy/

> >Received: (listserv 1.262); by m5; 15 Oct 1999 04:19:40 -0000

> >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ectopicpregnancyegroups

> >Received: (qmail 14849 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 04:19:38

-0000

> >Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.4) by qg. with

SMTP;

> >15 Oct 1999 04:19:38 -0000

> >Received: from KCHERUB@... by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.)

id

> >aKSTa02563 (4011) for <ectopicpregnancyegroups>; Fri, 15 Oct

1999

> >00:19:23 -0400 (EDT)

> >Message-ID:

> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26

> >

> >,

> >

> >I know what you are going through, sweetie. If you feel that you

can talk

> >about it on the list, please do. I want us to be friends, and that

> >involves

> >all the crappy things that happen to us above and beyond our losses!

> >

> >Take care,

> >Krista

> >

[Guest guest]

Remember that I am here, we all are, if you need to talk. you don't even

have to say anything, sometimes it helps to just go on about nothing at all.

We do seem to be concentrating on ttc. alot at the moment, but we still all

share our losses, and the memory never really goes away. don't feel like you

can't talk about your feelings, that is what we are here for. If we carry on

too much about what we are all planning, then just give us a 'virtual kick'

and we will stop.

Just never forget that we care about you. Stay in bed! sometimes that is the

best thing you can do for yourself. You are allowed to indulge at times like

this.

take care

sonja

>

>Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>Subject: Re:

>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:00:45 EDT

>

>Krista,

>I have just been having a lot of bad luck lately. Everything is piling up

>on me. I just haven't been myself lately. I have found that I am dreading

>getting up in the morning. If I could stay in bed all day, your believe I

>would.

>Hugs,

>

>

>Mommy to (1993), (1996) and Angel Baby Brett

>Madeline (1998).

>Icq (Ectopic Angels)49021113 Yahoo!Messenger Aleigha76

>In Loving Memory Of Brett Madeline Copley

>http://www.angelfire.com/bc/babybrett

>Creator of Ectopic Angels

>http://www.angelfire.com/bc/ectopicangels/angels.html

>

>

>>From: KCHERUB@...

>>Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>Subject: Re: My picture!

>>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:12:01 EDT

>>MIME-Version: 1.0

>>From ectopicpregnancy-return-526-rebel76 Thu Oct 14 20:52:49 1999

>>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id

>>MHotMailB9CFE663017AD820F3E9CF8A29927ABF113; Thu Oct 14 20:52:39 1999

>>X-eGroups-Return:

>>ectopicpregnancy-return-526-rebel76=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

>>Received: from [10.1.2.1] by ml. with NNFMP; 15 Oct 1999

>>04:12:09 -0000

>>Mailing-List: contact ectopicpregnancy-owneregroups

>>X-Mailing-List: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>X-URL: /list/ectopicpregnancy/

>>Received: (listserv 1.262); by m5; 15 Oct 1999 03:12:08 -0000

>>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>Received: (qmail 3858 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 03:12:05 -0000

>>Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.65) by qg. with

>>SMTP;

>>15 Oct 1999 03:12:05 -0000

>>Received: from KCHERUB@... by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id

>>aUEMa29648 (4410) for <ectopicpregnancyegroups>; Thu, 14 Oct 1999

>>23:12:02 -0400 (EDT)

>>Message-ID:

>>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26

>>

>>,

>>

>>Don't apologize for not being ready to TTC again. The list is not only

>>about

>>subsequent pregnancies. It just happens that the most frequent posters

>>are

>>in that stage now!

>>

>>The list IS for talking about the sadness that you have. Maybe we can

>>help?

>>

>>Take care,

>>Krista

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Think you're ready for Dreamcast? Get all the news, previews and

>>prices at CNET.com. It’s your source for the latest and greatest

>>in gaming! http://clickhere./click/1157

>>

>>

>>eGroups.com home: /group/ectopicpregnancy

>> - Simplifying group communications

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>______________________________________________________

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news,

>reviews and prices! http://clickhere./click/1159

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/ectopicpregnancy

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks to you too Sonja!

Hugs,

>

>Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>Subject: Re: Re:

>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:39:27 SAST

>MIME-Version: 1.0

>From ectopicpregnancy-return-549-rebel76 Fri Oct 15 04:45:42 1999

>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id

>MHotMailB9D05E9A0175D820F3D1CF8A29925E8B10; Fri Oct 15 04:45:04 1999

>X-eGroups-Return:

>ectopicpregnancy-return-549-rebel76=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

>Received: from [10.1.2.1] by ml. with NNFMP; 15 Oct 1999

>12:39:30 -0000

>Mailing-List: contact ectopicpregnancy-owneregroups

>X-Mailing-List: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>X-URL: /list/ectopicpregnancy/

>Received: (listserv 1.262); by m5; 15 Oct 1999 11:39:30 -0000

>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ectopicpregnancyegroups

>Received: (qmail 30685 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 11:39:29 -0000

>Received: from law2-f252.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (216.32.181.252) by

>qh. with SMTP; 15 Oct 1999 11:39:29 -0000

>Received: (qmail 35017 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 1999 11:39:28 -0000

>Message-ID:

>Received: from 196.34.250.6 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 1999

>04:39:27 PDT

>X-Originating-IP: [196.34.250.6]

>

>

>

>Remember that I am here, we all are, if you need to talk. you don't even

>have to say anything, sometimes it helps to just go on about nothing at

>all.

>We do seem to be concentrating on ttc. alot at the moment, but we still all

>share our losses, and the memory never really goes away. don't feel like

>you

>can't talk about your feelings, that is what we are here for. If we carry

>on

>too much about what we are all planning, then just give us a 'virtual kick'

>and we will stop.

>Just never forget that we care about you. Stay in bed! sometimes that is

>the

>best thing you can do for yourself. You are allowed to indulge at times

>like

>this.

>

>take care

>sonja

>

>

>>

>>Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>Subject: Re:

>>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:00:45 EDT

>>

>>Krista,

>>I have just been having a lot of bad luck lately. Everything is piling up

>>on me. I just haven't been myself lately. I have found that I am

>>dreading

>>getting up in the morning. If I could stay in bed all day, your believe I

>>would.

>>Hugs,

>>

>>

>>Mommy to (1993), (1996) and Angel Baby Brett

>>Madeline (1998).

>>Icq (Ectopic Angels)49021113 Yahoo!Messenger Aleigha76

>>In Loving Memory Of Brett Madeline Copley

>>http://www.angelfire.com/bc/babybrett

>>Creator of Ectopic Angels

>>http://www.angelfire.com/bc/ectopicangels/angels.html

>>

>>

>>>From: KCHERUB@...

>>>Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>>To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>>Subject: Re: My picture!

>>>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:12:01 EDT

>>>MIME-Version: 1.0

>>>From ectopicpregnancy-return-526-rebel76 Thu Oct 14 20:52:49 1999

>>>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id

>>>MHotMailB9CFE663017AD820F3E9CF8A29927ABF113; Thu Oct 14 20:52:39 1999

>>>X-eGroups-Return:

>>>ectopicpregnancy-return-526-rebel76=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

>>>Received: from [10.1.2.1] by ml. with NNFMP; 15 Oct 1999

>>>04:12:09 -0000

>>>Mailing-List: contact ectopicpregnancy-owneregroups

>>>X-Mailing-List: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>>X-URL: /list/ectopicpregnancy/

>>>Received: (listserv 1.262); by m5; 15 Oct 1999 03:12:08 -0000

>>>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ectopicpregnancyegroups

>>>Received: (qmail 3858 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 03:12:05 -0000

>>>Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.65) by qg. with

>>>SMTP;

>>>15 Oct 1999 03:12:05 -0000

>>>Received: from KCHERUB@... by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id

>>>aUEMa29648 (4410) for <ectopicpregnancyegroups>; Thu, 14 Oct 1999

>>>23:12:02 -0400 (EDT)

>>>Message-ID:

>>>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26

>>>

>>>,

>>>

>>>Don't apologize for not being ready to TTC again. The list is not only

>>>about

>>>subsequent pregnancies. It just happens that the most frequent posters

>>>are

>>>in that stage now!

>>>

>>>The list IS for talking about the sadness that you have. Maybe we can

>>>help?

>>>

>>>Take care,

>>>Krista

>>>

>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>Think you're ready for Dreamcast? Get all the news, previews and

>>>prices at CNET.com. It’s your source for the latest and greatest

>>>in gaming! http://clickhere./click/1157

>>>

>>>

>>>eGroups.com home: /group/ectopicpregnancy

>>> - Simplifying group communications

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>______________________________________________________

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on

>>more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news,

>>reviews and prices! http://clickhere./click/1159

>>

>>

>>eGroups.com home: /group/ectopicpregnancy

>> - Simplifying group communications

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>______________________________________________________

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on

>more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news,

>reviews and prices! http://clickhere./click/1159

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/ectopicpregnancy

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Tara,

As it just so happens, I have found an program much like you mentioned! It

is called PCR. They are supposed to help us with both the deposit and first

month's rent. I hope that it goes through. We have to have both of those

amounts paid by Oct. 22 or we will loose the apartment. Please keep us in

your prayers. I am sure we will need it!

Hugs to all,

>From: ride7108@...

>Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>To: ectopicpregnancyeGroups

>Subject: Re: Re:

>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:53:48 -0700

>MIME-Version: 1.0

>From ectopicpregnancy-return-553-rebel76 Fri Oct 15 06:06:59 1999

>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id

>MHotMailB9D0716C0065D820F3E7CF8A299274786; Fri Oct 15 06:05:33 1999

>X-eGroups-Return:

>ectopicpregnancy-return-553-rebel76=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

>Received: from [10.1.2.1] by ml. with NNFMP; 15 Oct 1999

>13:58:17 -0000

>Mailing-List: contact ectopicpregnancy-owneregroups

>X-Mailing-List: ectopicpregnancyegroups

>X-URL: /list/ectopicpregnancy/

>Received: (listserv 1.262); by m5; 15 Oct 1999 12:58:17 -0000

>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ectopicpregnancyeGroups

>Received: (qmail 137 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 12:58:11 -0000

>Received: from mu. (207.138.41.151) by qg. with SMTP;

>15 Oct 1999 12:58:11 -0000

>X-eGroups-Return: ride7108@...

>Received: from [10.1.2.7] by mu. with NNFMP; 15 Oct 1999

>13:57:31 -0000

>Message-ID: <7u784s$nrc9eGroups>

>In-Reply-To:

>User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.77

>X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

>

>,

>

>I am so sorry to hear that you are having a rough time right now. In

>the state I live in, each region or town/city has what is known as a

>community action program. This program helps parents w/ living

>arrangement issues if they are facing eviction or involved in a

>dangerous domestic situation. The parent must locate the potential

>apartment and it must meet the organization's standards, but they pay

>the landlord the first month's rent and security deposit. You do not

>have to pay this back. They also will move quickly, inside of a couple

>of weeks. You have to produce a lot of paperwork (former tax forms,

>birth certificates, pay stubs, social security cards, etc), but it's

>worth it. Coming up w/ the first month's rent and a security is

>usually a hurdle for most people so this group really helps a lot of

>women in need. I personally know a few people who have benefitted from

>it. In my state the offices are located where you would find a WIC or

>head start program. Maybe you should check around in your area and see

>if you can get help. Last year while my dh was still in school full

>time we fell behind in the elec and gas bills, and we received heating

>assistance grants and an electric grant from the organization. It

>might be worth checking in to. Good luck - I will be thinking about

>you!

>

>Tara

>

> " tracy copley " wrote:

>original article:/group/ectopicpregnancy/?start=5

>44

> > Thanks to everyone!!! I have had about all the bad luck I can handle

>right

> > now. Krista knows what is going on. I will fill the rest of you in.

> > My boyfriend and I have been evicted from our apartment. We have

>until the

> > 31st of this month to move. So far, we have one apartment

>possibility.

> > This is the second time this year I have been thrown out of an

>apartment.

> > The first one was in July and I had lived there for 4 years. My

>husband and

> > I split up and I had no way to pay the rent.

> > My two kids and I have lived with my boyfriend since then. We are

>living in

> > a one bedroom apartment. And it wasn't until recently that the owner

>of the

> > place found out. The landlord knew about us being here, but I guess

>she

> > failed to tell the owner. He made it very clear that we are to be

>gone by

> > the 31st.

> > Then last night we had a severe thunderstorm. And it knocked out

>half of

> > the electic in our apartment. I guess we blew a fuse or breaker. I

>have

> > called the owner of this place and the electric company. Neither of

>them

> > have gotten back to us. It is really weird. Just two walls don't

>have any

> > power running through them. Our bathroom has an overhead light that

>doesn't

> > work now...so I had to take a lamp into the bathroom just so I could

>see to

> > bathe my kids.!!

> > We are hoping for better luck. It can start anytime now!

> > Thanks for listening,

> >

> >

> >

> > >From: KCHERUB@...

> > >Reply-To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

> > >To: ectopicpregnancyegroups

> > >Subject: Re: Re:

> > >Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:19:23 EDT

> > >MIME-Version: 1.0

> > >From ectopicpregnancy-return-534-rebel76 Thu Oct 14 21:21:06 1999

> > >Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id

> > >MHotMailB9CFF6340083D82197BACF8A299236A4118; Thu Oct 14 21:20:43 1999

> > >X-eGroups-Return:

> > >ectopicpregnancy-return-534-rebel76=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

> > >Received: from [10.1.2.1] by ml. with NNFMP; 15 Oct 1999

> > >05:19:41 -0000

> > >Mailing-List: contact ectopicpregnancy-owneregroups

> > >X-Mailing-List: ectopicpregnancyegroups

> > >X-URL: /list/ectopicpregnancy/

> > >Received: (listserv 1.262); by m5; 15 Oct 1999 04:19:40 -0000

> > >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-ectopicpregnancyegroups

> > >Received: (qmail 14849 invoked from network); 15 Oct 1999 04:19:38

>-0000

> > >Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.4) by qg. with

>SMTP;

> > >15 Oct 1999 04:19:38 -0000

> > >Received: from KCHERUB@... by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.)

>id

> > >aKSTa02563 (4011) for <ectopicpregnancyegroups>; Fri, 15 Oct

>1999

> > >00:19:23 -0400 (EDT)

> > >Message-ID:

> > >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26

> > >

> > >,

> > >

> > >I know what you are going through, sweetie. If you feel that you

>can talk

> > >about it on the list, please do. I want us to be friends, and that

> > >involves

> > >all the crappy things that happen to us above and beyond our losses!

> > >

> > >Take care,

> > >Krista

> > >

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>In the market for computer hardware or software? Compare prices on

>more that 100,000 products at CNET.com. Get all the latest news,

>reviews and prices! http://clickhere./click/1159

>

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/ectopicpregnancy

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hey guys...

I already responded to (in private e-mail) on this question, and here

is what I wrote:

NO. Do not try insemination, if anything. The problem is the tube, not the

sperm getting to the egg. Since all fertilization takes place in the

fallopian tube, the problem is what happens after fertilization. Your OB/GYN

was wrong. In my opinion, it would probably increase your chances of an

ectopic. The chance of fertilization would be greater, since the sperm is

right there (near the opening of the tube). In natural fertilization, some

or all of the sperm might not make it that far.

Just so you all would know my opinion!

Take care,

Krista

[Guest guest]

Hi!

I was having trouble for a while conceiving after my second miscarriage.

After being on Clomed (due to anovulation) my RE suggested AI. Just to get

me pregnant. I wasn't into it at first, but my insurance covered it and was

eager to conceive. I did it once and it didn't work. I don't think that it

has any bearing on EP at all. What does everyone else think?

Take Care,

[Guest guest]

,

Ok got you! Were you given some progesterone to take towards the end of taking

the Premarin? I take it that your hysteroscopy was just to see the status of

your uterus and not surgery right? I am a little confused because on your

profile you say that type of surgery is N/K and then you talk about a

hysteroscopy. Am just wondering why they gave you premarin in the first place if

no surgery?

Poly

Re:

-Hi Poly

Yes I was on Provera and now on Premarin. The hospital put me on

Provera for one month before they diagnosed me with Ahermans.

Yes I am gonna ask my doctor about referring me to Dr Magos when I

see her in just over two weeks time.

Thank you for the article about Viagra.

Love -- In Ashermansegroups, " Poly Spyrou " <kyrpoly@l...>

wrote:

> ,

> I just would like to clear something. You say you are on Premarin

now and before that you were on Provera??? Is that right everybody or

should it be the other way round?

>

> Regarding Viagra, have a look at this site:

http://www.medscape.com/reuters/prof/2000/03/03.31/cl03310c.html

>

> I guess the surgery that will be available to you will be pretty

much like the rest of us. Some with the balloon, others just hormones

and others none of these. As with Interceed, it seems that only Dr

Berger is using this at the moment as far as we know. I am hoping

that Dr Magos (Royal Free Hospital, UK) and Dr Berger will contact

each other to discuss this possible method. Who knows, we may be

helping doctors find a better cure for us. Remember they don't know

that much about this syndrome because there seems to be so few of us,

but if we help them in return they will help us!!

>

> Why don't you suggest to your doctor to contact Dr Magos with

regards to further surgery. Can't they send you there?

>

> Poly

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/12/00 3:15:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mdmfoo@...

writes:

<< This is in response to the baclofen pump questions. >>

Thank you. You answered all my questions. Jeanne Ann

[Guest guest]

> on the MRI which showed 'gliosis or edema in the corticospinal

tract' . In

> conjunction with my physica >>

, what is that? It was my understanding that nothing showed on any tests

and that PLS was a diagnosis of exclusion. I had 3 MRI's with normal

results. The only abnormal result was from a " spect " scan and it showed

" diminished uptake from the thalamus gland. " My neuro's words were, " we have

no idea what that means. Never seen it before. " Any ideas? Thanks for any

info. Jeanne Ann

[Guest guest]

Rita,no cracks,but you know what I'm thinking????

[Guest guest]

Jeanne Ann, my MRI 4 of them, showed nothing. There again, I keep

saying, some of these doctor's don't have a clue as to what the heck is

going on in our heads. If I have the time, when I go to MD next week, I

want to discuss this with Dr. Floeter. I have already talked about it

with my neurologist, but I want to see what this gal has to say. Either

I will forget, or won't understand!! No cracks C.

Rita

*************************************

Some people succeed in spite of their handicap. Others succeed because

of them.

[Guest guest]

Rita,when it comes to you,I only think nice thoughts,or didn't you know that?

.

[Guest guest]

C, no I don't know what your thinking, do I dare ask " tell me? "

Rita

*************************************

Some people succeed in spite of their handicap. Others succeed because

of them.

[Guest guest]

Good question - I don't exactly know myself except that bruising is sometimes

(loosely?) described as a form of edema (or oedema). Basically the bottom line

is that somethin' ain't right in there and nobody knows what to do about it. I

must admit that I sometimes wonder whether the fact that something clearly

showed

as abnormal (obvious even to my wife and I) on my first MRI when my symptoms

were

relatively minor yet most others diagnosed with PLS or ALS have normal MRI's,

means that I have something other than PLS.

Something else I meant to add was that the MRI also showed no evidence of any

demylenation, yet I have sometimes seen reference to demylenation in relation to

PLS.

The general attitude of the medical fraternity seems to be that it's either PLS

or some other form of motor neurone disease and basically we can't do anything

for it anyway. The fact that these changes or degeneration occur in the

corticospinal tract seems to be the clincher as from things I have read that is

the primary area that degeneration is expected to occur in PLS.

As a matter of interest the medical dictionary gives the following definitions:

Gliosis: The production of a dense fibrous network of neuroglia. Neuroglia are

described as specialised cells that surround neurons, providing mechanical and

physical support and electrical insulation between neurons.

Edema (oedema): The presence of abnormally large amounts of fluid in the

intercellular tissue spaces of the body.

I'm not really much the wiser for that! 8-)

jeanneannneff@... wrote:

> > on the MRI which showed 'gliosis or edema in the corticospinal

> tract' . In

> > conjunction with my physica >>

>

> , what is that? It was my understanding that nothing showed on any tests

> and that PLS was a diagnosis of exclusion. I had 3 MRI's with normal

> results. The only abnormal result was from a " spect " scan and it showed

> " diminished uptake from the thalamus gland. " My neuro's words were, " we have

> no idea what that means. Never seen it before. " Any ideas? Thanks for any

> info. Jeanne Ann

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Huge Shoe Selection at Zappos.com

> (small sizes also available)

> http://click./1/7062/14/_/532384/_/964387303/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

.

,-._|\ Covington

/ Oz \

\_,--.x/

v

[Guest guest]

:

Thanks for the info (I didn't understand 99% of it). Wish I could, but

I am just a grandma who walks and talks funny. All I know is what I

have read and been told, there is no way of diagnosing PLS, other than

elimination and autopsy findings.

I guess that is what you were trying to tell me, thanks for your effort.

Rita

*************************************

Some people succeed in spite of their handicap. Others succeed because

of them.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Poly, I am on a high dose at least I think it's high, I take 5mg's a day, so I am worried as you were and I am going to keep on calling and make a real nuisance of myself till he talks to me!

Re: re:

,

After my hysteroscopy in June I bled for about a week. Then it gradually stopped and 18 days after surgery, I started to bleed again. Till this day I still don't know if that was a period. I was concerned as you are about bleeding and so I contacted my doctor. I was on 1.25mg of Premarin and I too thought that while on that I shouldn't be bleeding but my doctor said that because it was a low dose, it shouldn't suppress my ovarian cycle breaking through despite the medication. Alternatively he said, the bleeding could be part of the healing process. What dose are you on?

Hope that helps. In any case, I would definitely keep calling until you get to talk to him.

Poly

[Guest guest]

,

After my hysteroscopy in June I bled for about a week. Then it gradually stopped and 18 days after surgery, I started to bleed again. Till this day I still don't know if that was a period. I was concerned as you are about bleeding and so I contacted my doctor. I was on 1.25mg of Premarin and I too thought that while on that I shouldn't be bleeding but my doctor said that because it was a low dose, it shouldn't suppress my ovarian cycle breaking through despite the medication. Alternatively he said, the bleeding could be part of the healing process. What dose are you on?

Hope that helps. In any case, I would definitely keep calling until you get to talk to him.

Poly

[Guest guest]

hi julie

maltese are a small breed 7 to 10lbs all white with straight hair, we have two

Rocky 5 years old & Cosmo 3 years old, we're also currently lookin after my

in-laws dog, so we have a full house!

i also wanted to let you know that after my 1st hystro/lap i bled for about 10

days

with cramping and felt very sore (my dr. used an IUD for 30 days) i was also

concerned and he said that he removed alot of scar tissue and it was normal

he said to be concerned only if i bleed very heavy and have a fever.

haze

julie leisz wrote:

>

> Hi Hazel, maltese is a smaller breed isn't? I just love dogs also, my

> husband thinks we started raising pups because of our inability to have

> another baby, he is probably right, but for whatever reason, I do love it

> and I hate to see them go when they are old enough, I cry my eyes out every

> time. The waiting stinks! I'm also waiting for my doctor to call me back, I

> called him because I am pretty worried that I am still bleeding, I don't

> think I should be bleeding at all, I'm taking premarin, doesn't that

> suppress bleeding? So I'm worried that it's coming from somewhere that it

> shouldn't be, like my cervix.

> Talk to you all later. Love,

> re:

>

> >

> >

> > wow julie .....puppies now that's something to look forward to!

> > i have two maltese dogs and am a BIG dog lover. hope all goes well

> > with the delivery, and i am glad your feeling better today!

> > haze

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Good Morning Everyone, well I think I feel a little better today,

> > but it could be that I took a pain pill at about 3:30am and it might

> > not be worn off yet. I am seeing my doc. again tomorrow, I hope

> > nothing is wrong, I'm starting to think that there might be, I'm

> > bleeding pretty good too, since they took the balloon out, I think my

> > cervix may have tore some, it's just a thought. It was not the same

> > doc. that got smacked in the face with the balloon as the one that

> > caused my ashermans, unfortunatally, I have not seen that doc. for a

> > long time, I don't even think he should even be practicing medicine.

> > > I just want to get through the day, but it's going to be a hectic

> > day, my dog is in labor and this is her first litter of pups so I

> > have

> > to watch her pretty close. We raise labrador retrievers, we have not

> > had a litter of pups for quite a while, I hope I remember everything,

> > but the Vet is just a phone call away so everything should be fine, I

> > actually can't wait, I love puppies!!

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

: So, if you posted this already I'm sorry I missed it, but

did you go on to have a 'normal' period over the weekend, or

was it a scant and short one? I'll be interested in hearing

what happened as I was pregnant with my daughter and

actually had a very short 2-day period just after conceiving her

and thought I wasn't pregnant but was.....

Gwen

Re: Question about implantation and lining...

>

>Thanks for the information...

>

>I did just get off the phone with the nurse and she said that if my

>period didn't seem 'normal' (too sparse or short), to go ahead and

>come in for the blood test. She didn't really know much about the

>hpts, other than to say that I shouldn't beat myself up for taking

>it. She said that she's sure she would so the same! (made me feel

>better, at least). Anyhow, I do think it was a false + and that I

>will probably have a normal period this weekend (yeah).

>

>Thanks again for posting - at least I know that it does happen!

>

>Take care,

>

>

>

>

>> > > Hi , it is possible to have a positive pregnancy test even

>if

>> > the embryo

>> > > has not implanted properly, it has happened to me 8 times!! As

>> soon

>> > as I get

>> > > a positive result, I always go to my clinic to get a blood HCG

>> > test, then

>> > > they don't think I'm nuts, I always early miscarry usually week

>5

>> > or 6, I

>> > > had surgery 3 weeks ago in the hope that my lining will allow a

>> good

>> > > implantation the next time I conceive. That is my biggest

>problem

>> > right now,

>> > > my RE says that the embryo can't implant because my lining is

>so

>> > thin. I

>> > > would tell your doctor asap.

>> > > Question about implantation and lining...

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > >

>> > > > I have a question about lining and implantation. I am 12

>days

>> > post

>> > > > iui and went a little crazy a few days ago and decided to

>> test. I

>> > > > took a confirm test and 'thought' I saw something, but to get

>a

>> > > > better look, I took it out of the case. There was clearly

>some

>> > very,

>> > > > very faint shading around the hcg side of the strip. So, I

>> took

>> > the

>> > > > test again yesterday (at 11 dpiui) and same result.

>> > > > Well, this morning my temp dropped back to just above

>coverline

>> > and

>> > > > I'm pretty sure AF is on her way...so what happened? Did I

>> just

>> > not

>> > > > read the test right? These tests aren't supposed to have an

>> > > > evaporation line and I did read the test within minutes of

>> taking

>> > it.

>> > > >

>> > > > So, I'm thinking that it might be possible to have conceived,

>> but

>> > not

>> > > > (completely) implanted? If my lining isn't thick enough,

>could

>> > that

>> > > > happen?

>> > > >

>> > > > I think I'll definitely ask my RE about this before trying iui

>> > > > again. I also realize that the chances from iui are still

>only

>> > 20-

>> > > > 25%, but I was thrown off by that stupid test that I

>foolishly

>> > took.

>> > > >

>> > > > Anyhow, if AF doesn't arrive and my temp is still above

>> coverline

>> > (no

>> > > > matter how slightly), I'll probably go in for my scheduled

>> blood

>> > test

>> > > > tomorrow am...otherwise, I REALLY hope AF arrives tonight.

>> > > > Otherwise, we may lose our chance of trying iui next month

>> > because of

>> > > > travel.

>> > > >

>> > > > As always, thanks for listening,

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >

[Guest guest]

Here's how to change your settings. Go to www. and click on the Asherman's Group.

When you get to the Asherman's page, go to the right side of the screen to the " membership " section.

When you click on that you will be given a menu of options for how you receive your mail. You can

choose digest or some other format. I hope this helps!

Gwen

changing setttings

Hello Everyone

Sorry I have not had a chance to read all my emails yet so I cant comment on anything that has been happening.

Does anyone know how to change the settings back on how I receive my emails. Poly changed them to Daily Digest whilst I was away for me and I am not too sure how to change it back.

Hope that you can help

[Guest guest]

Good for you, .. I'm not only crossing all my fingers.. but all my shiny leg hairs too!

Go give hubby a hug for all of us and tell him how very very proud we are of him!!!

Topper ()

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:19:41 -0500 (Central Standard Time) "" writes:

hi, well i did something - at the time i wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not but i figured nothing i was saying was getting thrrough so i forwarded our letters to hubby ---- nothing was said but the next day he was like a new man - i know what you are thinking - same as me - how long will it last before he starts back......forr noww i'll take every day i can get. i'm getting hugs and kisses with nothing expected in return - he is actually talking to me and even about being sick and asked am i trying to get better and how long will it take and of course i said i wish i knew this myself and said i'm just trying to hang in there and take it day by day and he said he would hang in there with me for as long as it took even though its hard on him doing EVERYTHING - which he is. so maybe the letters worked in more ways than one. keep fingers crossed for me.

visit our website

www.geocities.com/tanyarn96/countryside.html

www.poncetihomes.com

-- Re: Re:

We're glad that you're here, too, !!

*shy smile*

Topper ()

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 23:22:25 -0500 (Central Standard Time) "" writes:

I really want to thank all of you for the support - i don't know what i would do without you - i'm so glad i found this group.

visit our website

www.geocities.com/tanyarn96/countryside.html

www.poncetihomes.com