Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

[Guest guest]

I think that firing someone for having a mind of their own and speaking their

peace is no reason to fire the person. As far as having a different view other

than yours, sounds like it's your way or the highway. I don't think there is

any room for that kind of thought.

Eddie

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

> Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit. I can fire

you for just about anything except the few reasons we all know about.

>

> Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending ones thoughts

by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake.

>

> If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not have a place in

my organization.......It's hit the road jack.

>

> I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because of just

about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired Ron H. :-)

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------

> Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com

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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

[Guest guest]

No, it's not a reason to fire anyone. And if I had any thought about

changing jobs, I would definitely find out where Bob hires and fires!

That's not good management practice and makes for low employee moral. You

know, I believe that this country was founded on Freedom of Religion and

Freedom of Speech, and that right or wrong, we're able to speak our mind. I

don't recall a clause in the Constitution about having freedom of speech

" except when you're at work or speaking about your employer " .

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!

Jana

FW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

>

>

> > Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit. I

can fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all know

about.

> >

> > Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending ones

thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake.

> >

> > If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not have a

place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack.

> >

> > I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because of

just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired Ron H.

:-)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------

> > Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> > Have your say at

> > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/

> >

> > -- Check out your group's private Chat room

> > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> Have your say at

> http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953354852/

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname= & m=1

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jana,

Tony said he resigned. He never said he was fired.

Ron

Jana Jordan wrote:

No, it's not a reason to fire

anyone. And if I had any thought about

changing jobs, I would definitely find out where Bob hires and fires!

That's not good management practice and makes for low employee moral.

You

know, I believe that this country was founded on Freedom of Religion

and

Freedom of Speech, and that right or wrong, we're able to speak our

mind. I

don't recall a clause in the Constitution about having freedom of speech

"except when you're at work or speaking about your employer".

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!

Jana

FW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

>

>

> > Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit.

I

can fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all

know

about.

> >

> > Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending

ones

thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake.

> >

> > If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not

have a

place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack.

> >

> > I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because

of

just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired

Ron H.

:-)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------

> > Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> > Have your say at

> > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/

> >

> > -- Check out your group's private Chat room

> > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> Have your say at

> http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953354852/

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname= & m=1

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Jana,

It hard to know where Bob hires and fires. He doesn't

sign his post. He may not even have the authority to hire or fire anyone.

We will never know if he doesn't sign his post and position.

Ron

Jana Jordan wrote:

No, it's not a reason to fire

anyone. And if I had any thought about

changing jobs, I would definitely find out where Bob hires and fires!

That's not good management practice and makes for low employee moral.

You

know, I believe that this country was founded on Freedom of Religion

and

Freedom of Speech, and that right or wrong, we're able to speak our

mind. I

don't recall a clause in the Constitution about having freedom of speech

"except when you're at work or speaking about your employer".

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!

Jana

FW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

>

>

> > Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit.

I

can fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all

know

about.

> >

> > Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending

ones

thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake.

> >

> > If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not

have a

place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack.

> >

> > I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because

of

just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired

Ron H.

:-)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------

> > Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> > Have your say at

> > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/

> >

> > -- Check out your group's private Chat room

> > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> Have your say at

> http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953354852/

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname= & m=1

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I understand, Tony said that, but I was mostly responding to Bob's message where he said that he would fire someone for that same thing, or for having views that Bob didn't feel belonged in his organization.

But, Tony also said that they forced him to resign.

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!JanaFW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS > > > > Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit. I can fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all know about. > > > > Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending ones thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake. > > > > If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not have a place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack. > > > > I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because of just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired Ron H. :-) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey. > > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president. > > Have your say at > > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/ > > > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey. > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president. > Have your say at > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953354852/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname= & m=1 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw. FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal information! Take advantage of this offer and go to Findlaw.com now! http://click./1/1827/4/_/4981/_/953356520/ -- Check out your group's private Chat room -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

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[Guest guest]

I understand. It's the forced part that is sticky!! I urge my employee's

to use free speech everyday, and most do. Some are quite type people and

just don't have anything to say.I want to know what they think, believe,

their opinions,ect; If I don't know what bothering them, I

can't help them. At least they don't carry what's bothering them around

on the job. At the end of our staff meetings I go around the room with

each employee, and ask them to speak about anything, anyone, but speak

or hold their peace. They can say anything, and call me every four letter

word they can think of without fear from me, their employer, or other employee's.

What we say is left in the room and not a chip on our shoulder. We then

go back to work to do the best for our citizens, for which we are paid

to do. We all know we are paid to do a job, and our personal problems need

to be left elsewhere. If they have an employment problem we settle it at

the lowest level possible. About 99% of the problems are solved by a list

of supervisors in their chain of command, and never reaches me, until it's

already resolved. Although they can come talk to me, call me, ect; 24 hours

a day. I've gotten up many times after midnight to talk to employee's with

personal ,or otherwise. They know I'm always there for them, and I would

be upset if they didn't call, or come talk to me. If I can't help them,

I try to find someone that can.

Ron

Jana Jordan wrote:

I understand, Tony said that, but I was mostly responding to Bob's message

where he said that he would fire someone for that same thing, or for having

views that Bob didn't feel belonged in his organization.

But, Tony also said that they forced him to resign. Take

care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!

Jana

FW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

>

>

> > Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit.

I

can fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all

know

about.

> >

> > Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending

ones

thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake.

> >

> > If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not

have a

place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack.

> >

> > I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because

of

just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired

Ron H.

:-)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------

> > Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> > Have your say at

> > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/

> >

> > -- Check out your group's private Chat room

> > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> Have your say at

> http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953354852/

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname= & m=1

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Once again, you're right! What are people afraid of? Being fired?!!?

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!JanaFW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS > > > > Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit. I can fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all know about. > > > > Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending ones thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake. > > > > If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not have a place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack. > > > > I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because of just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired Ron H. :-) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey. > > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president. > > Have your say at > > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/ > > > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey. > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president. > Have your say at > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953354852/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname= & m=1 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw. FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal information! Take advantage of this offer and go to Findlaw.com now! http://click./1/1827/4/_/4981/_/953356520/ -- Check out your group's private Chat room -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

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[Guest guest]

What a great management technique! I have been forced to resign before, but I don't think it would have held up if taken to arbitration or court or anything. They had "laid me off" and then, when I went to pick up my last check, they demanded a letter of resignation. I gave them a letter, but it wasn't of resignation, they gave me my check without reading the letter, then followed me out the door (after reading it) threatening all sorts of stuff. I just told them to go right ahead and never heard from them again.

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!JanaFW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS > > > > Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit. I can fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all know about. > > > > Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending ones thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake. > > > > If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not have a place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack. > > > > I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because of just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired Ron H. :-) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey. > > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president. > > Have your say at > > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/ > > > > -- Check out your group's private Chat room > > -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make history and take part in the first online majority survey. > Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president. > Have your say at > http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953354852/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- /vote?listname= & m=1 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw. FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal information! Take advantage of this offer and go to Findlaw.com now! http://click./1/1827/4/_/4981/_/953356520/ -- Check out your group's private Chat room -- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

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[Guest guest]

The reason most employer's try to make you " quit " is to attempt to avoid paying into your unemployment fund. A person can only be denied unemployment benefits if they quit or are discharged for misconduct. It usually starts out as a swearing match but you have a right to an administrative hearing (no charge) and these guys have heard it all and are usually pretty aware of what's going on.

So in reality for unemployment benefits, it's better not to quit. An employer uses the threat of having a dismissal on your record as a way to get you not to file. This sometimes causes an increase in their rates.

If you have a written agreement that demands arbitration before filing a lawsuit than you may have an enforceable employment contract which they have breeched -- get a labor attorney -- after you file for unemployment!

Melody

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: -return-12026-malouf=arn.netreturns (DOT) Sat Mar 18 00:03:08 2000

Reply-To: egroups

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:08:49 -0600

To: <egroups>

Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

What a great management technique! I have been forced to resign before, but I don't think it would have held up if taken to arbitration or court or anything. They had " laid me off " and then, when I went to pick up my last check, they demanded a letter of resignation. I gave them a letter, but it wasn't of resignation, they gave me my check without reading the letter, then followed me out the door (after reading it) threatening all sorts of stuff. I just told them to go right ahead and never heard from them again.

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!

Jana

FW,TX

[Guest guest]

its true that employers can fire at will as long as not targeted to

age,race,religion, etc. And employers can disguise the facts with other

warnings and documentation and such.

For this incident, what it say about the employer??? Is their fairness

involved. If Tony was terminated for his opion and not for his performance,

then the people who made the decision have for morale character or

integrity.

So, Tony is problaby better off for it.

Also, Tony if you live in or around San , Come apply with me. I am

looking for Education Co-ordinator.

My busness email is jeajam@...

Jessie

>

>Reply-To: egroups

>To: egroups

>Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:46:31 -0800

>

>Slow down a little before running off at the mouth about a lawsuit. I can

>fire you for just about anything except the few reasons we all know about.

>

>Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending ones

>thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake.

>

>If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not have a place

>in my organization.......It's hit the road jack.

>

>I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because of just

>about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired Ron H. :-)

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------

>Super-Meta Search Engine! GoHip! http://www.gohip.com

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

>Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

>Have your say at

>http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953343993/

>

>-- Check out your group's private Chat room

>-- /ChatPage?listName= & m=1

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

You advised Tony to climb the fence to get to the " greener grass, " but the

" grass " will always have to be MOWED! Employees AND employers must follow the

rules or suffer the consequences.

[Guest guest]

Please quit you are killing me.......ROFL.......

When you risk everything and put youur name, your reputation, your livelyhood,

your families future on the line EVERYDAY, You are darn right its my way or the

highway.

If you don't like that way of thinking I suggest you gamble your paycheck every

week, buy large bottles of rolaids, learn tax codes, learn TDH rules, learn how

to retain the employees you want and weed out those you do not want. After doing

this for a few years you tell me again " I don't think there is any room for that

kind of thought.

"

------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

First I did not mean to imply that I would fire for the same reason. I do not

know the specifics. What I meant as an employer I have the right to fire for

that reason if so desired.

Tony was not *forced* to resigned. It was a choice. If he did so out of fear of

being fired that is a simple choice. If I believe in my convictions I would

fight tooth and nail and you would have to throw my but out. Sorry Tony, I do

know what you are going through right now and would not wish that on my enemies.

It comes down to being a worker or employer, If you do not like the way a

service is run.....climb that fence and find out that the grass is not greener

on the other side.

If you want to be the boss, make the sacrifice and make it happen. If it were

easy and a sure thing everyone would do it.

Signed as Bob Baca

------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Wlemtp@... wrote:

> You advised Tony to climb the fence to get to the " greener grass, " but the

> " grass " will always have to be MOWED! Employees AND employers must follow the

> rules or suffer the consequences.

Having worked in supervisory positions in several different departments I can

honestly say i am surprised by Bob's comments of " It's my way or the highway " . I

as a supervisor tried to fight for the people below me, I listened to their

gripes, concerns, and yes I even listened to their family problems etc. I think

the way to improve a company is to hear these complaints/criticisms of your

company. Companies that reprimand their employees for having a voice or having

an

opinion are kind of like a dictator that controls the newspaper and TV stations.

After a while they start to believe their own propaganda. Face it most people

work this job because they love some aspect of it and typically it isn't the pay

they love. We have to find ways to motivate employees to want to come to work

and

do a good job. One way to do that is to make them feel as if they have been

empowered to make changes in the organization that would benefit both their

career and the patients care. Please don't take this as a personal attack on Bob

as I know many supervisors that feel like Bob. I don't manage that way and never

will. I left one company because they wanted me to manage that way. If I make my

employees feel good about their job, then they will make all of us look good

including the company. People are our most valuable resource. It takes more

money

to train new employees than it does to keep the good ones. When a tough decision

is made yes eventually someone has to make it and the buck stops somewhere. When

you involve your employees in that decision making process and allow them to see

why you are making the decisions we all come out better. There are more people

filling the slots below me than there are above me. It's easier for them to make

me look bad as a group than it is for me to make the group look bad. Work with

your employees, give them a voice, and they will work until the ends of the

earth

for you.

Dwayne

Standard disclaimer these are my opinions and no one else's opinions. Who else

would want them.

__________________________________________

NetZero - Defenders of the Free World

Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at

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[Guest guest]

I don't know where you are coming from on this but in Texas you can't be denied unemployment. This is a right to work state . The only thing that will happen to the employer is that his employment insurance rate will go up a little. Take it to the bank.

Gene Deck, Lt., LP, BAASCity of Devine EMSwebmaster@...

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

What a great management technique! I have been forced to resign before, but I don't think it would have held up if taken to arbitration or court or anything. They had "laid me off" and then, when I went to pick up my last check, they demanded a letter of resignation. I gave them a letter, but it wasn't of resignation, they gave me my check without reading the letter, then followed me out the door (after reading it) threatening all sorts of stuff. I just told them to go right ahead and never heard from them again.Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!JanaFW,TX

[Guest guest]

very well said.

Eddie

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

> Wlemtp@... wrote:

>

> > You advised Tony to climb the fence to get to the " greener grass, " but the

> > " grass " will always have to be MOWED! Employees AND employers must follow

the

> > rules or suffer the consequences.

>

> Having worked in supervisory positions in several different departments I can

> honestly say i am surprised by Bob's comments of " It's my way or the highway " .

I

> as a supervisor tried to fight for the people below me, I listened to their

> gripes, concerns, and yes I even listened to their family problems etc. I

think

> the way to improve a company is to hear these complaints/criticisms of your

> company. Companies that reprimand their employees for having a voice or having

an

> opinion are kind of like a dictator that controls the newspaper and TV

stations.

> After a while they start to believe their own propaganda. Face it most people

> work this job because they love some aspect of it and typically it isn't the

pay

> they love. We have to find ways to motivate employees to want to come to work

and

> do a good job. One way to do that is to make them feel as if they have been

> empowered to make changes in the organization that would benefit both their

> career and the patients care. Please don't take this as a personal attack on

Bob

> as I know many supervisors that feel like Bob. I don't manage that way and

never

> will. I left one company because they wanted me to manage that way. If I make

my

> employees feel good about their job, then they will make all of us look good

> including the company. People are our most valuable resource. It takes more

money

> to train new employees than it does to keep the good ones. When a tough

decision

> is made yes eventually someone has to make it and the buck stops somewhere.

When

> you involve your employees in that decision making process and allow them to

see

> why you are making the decisions we all come out better. There are more people

> filling the slots below me than there are above me. It's easier for them to

make

> me look bad as a group than it is for me to make the group look bad. Work with

> your employees, give them a voice, and they will work until the ends of the

earth

> for you.

>

> Dwayne

> Standard disclaimer these are my opinions and no one else's opinions. Who else

> would want them.

>

> __________________________________________

> NetZero - Defenders of the Free World

> Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at

> http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw.

> FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal

> information! Take advantage of this offer and go to

> Findlaw.com now!

> http://click./1/1827/4/_/4981/_/953396845/

>

> eGroups.com Home: /group//

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bob,

If the Ron H your talking about is

,then that's me. If your talking about me, then what's your problem? I

don't think this list was set up for personal attacks on me or anyone else.

Since your so sharp on LAWS I hope your sharp on civil liability when making

statements about me or anyone else. So you would fire Ron H, for what?????

What does the H stand for, and where does he live??? Dancing, while I wait

for the answer to this one!!!!!

Executive Director

Washington County EMS

bob Baca wrote:

Slow down a little before running off at the mouth

about a lawsuit. I can fire you for just about anything except the few

reasons we all know about.

Speaking ones mind in a crowded room with his enemies or sending ones

thoughts by email to a ruthless group like this was a mistake.

If I find out that one of my employees has views I feel do not have

a place in my organization.......It's hit the road jack.

I have never done that but I have the right to let you go because of

just about anything. Do you know how many times I would have fired Ron

H. :-)

------------------------------------------------------------

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Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

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[Guest guest]

What are they Bob?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: -return-12062-malouf=arn.netreturns (DOT) Sat Mar 18 20:00:09 2000

Reply-To: egroups

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:03:56 -0800

To: egroups

Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

Jana,

You are severely misinformed completely. There are numerous reasons an employee who quits can draw unemployment compensation.

As a matter of fact there are more reasons they can draw it than they cannot.

[Guest guest]

Having a reputation for being a hard ass, I will comment on that. You are

correct for the most part. However that will only work if your employees have

the desire to be worthy employees (all of them). I have a great deal of respect

for the people that work for me. I truly believe that they are giving there

best. The opinion of the boss is always skewed by the fact that he/she is the

boss and the employee is the employee. Having been on both sides of that fence

in EMS, my opinion of boss has changed since I became one. Certainly not all

bosses are bad, and if the facts be known not all employees are good.

Henry

Geisen wrote:

> A good supervisor or boss doesnt have to control with fear ,he can get more

> accomplished with trust, friendship and respect from his

> subordinates.!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Geisen EMT-P

>

> Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

>

> >Wlemtp@... wrote:

> >

> >> You advised Tony to climb the fence to get to the " greener grass, " but

> the

> >> " grass " will always have to be MOWED! Employees AND employers must follow

> the

> >> rules or suffer the consequences.

> >

> >Having worked in supervisory positions in several different departments I

> can

> >honestly say i am surprised by Bob's comments of " It's my way or the

> highway " . I

> >as a supervisor tried to fight for the people below me, I listened to their

> >gripes, concerns, and yes I even listened to their family problems etc. I

> think

> >the way to improve a company is to hear these complaints/criticisms of your

> >company. Companies that reprimand their employees for having a voice or

> having an

> >opinion are kind of like a dictator that controls the newspaper and TV

> stations.

> >After a while they start to believe their own propaganda. Face it most

> people

> >work this job because they love some aspect of it and typically it isn't

> the pay

> >they love. We have to find ways to motivate employees to want to come to

> work and

> >do a good job. One way to do that is to make them feel as if they have been

> >empowered to make changes in the organization that would benefit both their

> >career and the patients care. Please don't take this as a personal attack

> on Bob

> >as I know many supervisors that feel like Bob. I don't manage that way and

> never

> >will. I left one company because they wanted me to manage that way. If I

> make my

> >employees feel good about their job, then they will make all of us look

> good

> >including the company. People are our most valuable resource. It takes more

> money

> >to train new employees than it does to keep the good ones. When a tough

> decision

> >is made yes eventually someone has to make it and the buck stops somewhere.

> When

> >you involve your employees in that decision making process and allow them

> to see

> >why you are making the decisions we all come out better. There are more

> people

> >filling the slots below me than there are above me. It's easier for them to

> make

> >me look bad as a group than it is for me to make the group look bad. Work

> with

> >your employees, give them a voice, and they will work until the ends of the

> earth

> >for you.

> >

> >Dwayne

> >Standard disclaimer these are my opinions and no one else's opinions. Who

> else

> >would want them.

> >

> >__________________________________________

> >NetZero - Defenders of the Free World

> >Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at

> >http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >Go to Findlaw.com and get your FREE FLEECE from FindLaw.

> >FindLaw is the Internet's best destination for free legal

> >information! Take advantage of this offer and go to

> >Findlaw.com now!

> >http://click./1/1827/4/_/4981/_/953396845/

> >

> >eGroups.com Home: /group//

> > - Simplifying group communications

> >

> >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> -- /docvault//?m=1

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

Oops, Jana. Not Guilty. I haven't posted anything on the subject of

employment law. That was somebody else who said they can't deny you

unemployment in the State of Texas, not me. I've been lurking on this one.

But since you've mentioned me by name, I'll come out of my cave and give you

my take on the subject. There is NO Freedom of Speech for employees in the

State of Texas.

In fact, as you say, people get denied unemployment all the time in Texas.

Texas is not " employee friendly. " It's big corporate employer friendly.

There are pockets of Texas, mostly in the Houston and " Golden Triangle " area

where unions are powerful, mostly the Oil and Chemical Workers, but most of

Texas is union unfriendly. So unless you belong to a union which has a

contract with your employer, or you have a personal contract, which nobody

but CEOs and other top managers do, you can be fired for any reason or no

reason. If you apply for unemployment, your employer can protest and often

prevent you from drawing benefits. At least make you jump through multiple

hoops to get it, usually long after you've had to take some other type of

employment to keep the kids in shoes.

Texas is an employment at will state, and your employer can fire you for the

shape or your nose or the length of your hair unless you fall into a

protected category. Those protected categories are defined mainly by federal

law, not state law. Most people don't have the money to fund a legal battle,

and few lawyers will take employment cases for a contingent fee because the

prospects of recovery are so dim and the awards so small even if you win.

All aspects of employment law favorable to the worker have been generally

decimated in Texas and over most of the rest of the country over the last 10

years. Workers Compensation " reforms " , along with so-called " Tort Reform "

have rendered most workers powerless to fight a corporate employer and win

anything significant. So much for " compassionate conservatism. " The only

compassion in Texas is for corporations. It's practically impossible in the

State of Texas now to sue a corporation and win. There used to be lawyers

who would take your case for a percentage of the award; they no longer exist,

because there are virtually no chances of significant awards.

So you keep your mouth shut, do your job, and don't complain in Texas or

you'll find yourself on the street looking for a job.

Freedom of Speech is not an issue in the workplace in Texas. You either play

the game and suck up or you're dead meat unless you can show that you fall

into a federally protected category and that your firing violated that

protection. Not easy to do, and the process is slow and cumbersome. You can

go to the EEOC if you're in a protected category and wait out the process.

You'll starve or croak before you'll win anything because even if they find

in your favor the employer can put off paying you through the appeals process

which can take years.

Criticism of your employer can and usually will get you fired without

recourse. Whistleblowers, although supposedly protected by law, almost

always end up without a job and seldom win a cent for their troubles, and if

they do it's 10 years after the fact, and they end up in the hole after legal

expenses. And generally only those whistleblowers who are connected to firms

receiving federal funds are protected.

By the way, if you're interested in these subjects, may I recommend a book

for you to read. It's called " Shrub: The Short but Happy Political Life of

W. Bush " , by Molly Ivins, available from Amazon.com for $9.95. Don't

order this book if: you're a diehard reactionary conservative, not rich,

don't have to work for a living, really think that Dubya loves the common

people, or have Alzheimer's or are in the final stages of syphillis, are mad

at Hillary for making $100,000 on cow futures in a day (it took Dubya several

months to make 14 million off of the taxpayers of Arlington from an

investment of around $600,000) or hate all Democrats. Otherwise, you may

find this an informative and enlightening portrait of our probable next

President. No comfort here for the common woman/man though. If you ain't in

the Country Club (and I don't mean Tritt's) then you ain't got a dog

in this fight. On the other hand, if you ain't a Buddhist Monk with a

million to spend, you ain't got a dog in this fight neither. Moral to the

story: Little People Don't Win, no matter who's the leader. Suits Rule, but

only when they produce profits. However, as opposed to the rest of us, they

have lives after firing. They go to other corporations and get employment

contracts with Golden Parachutes. They deserve Golden Showers, but that's

not the way things are.

They get the goldmine; we get the shaft.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

My opinions are my own.

[Guest guest]

She was talking to Gene Deck from Devine. Bob Baca also had some legal " advice " whom we have not heard from since we asked for his explanation and sources -- kind of unusual for ol' Bob to have no comments. :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<Oops, Jana. Not Guilty. I haven't posted anything on the subject of

employment law. That was somebody else who said they can't deny you . . .>

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

My opinions are my own.

[Guest guest]

hey gene, doesnt this all this sound like something you and i discussed

about two weeks ago??

by the way i will email you later to tell you what is up with that at the

moment.

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

> Oops, Jana. Not Guilty. I haven't posted anything on the subject of

> employment law. That was somebody else who said they can't deny you

> unemployment in the State of Texas, not me. I've been lurking on this

one.

> But since you've mentioned me by name, I'll come out of my cave and give

you

> my take on the subject. There is NO Freedom of Speech for employees in

the

> State of Texas.

>

> In fact, as you say, people get denied unemployment all the time in Texas.

> Texas is not " employee friendly. " It's big corporate employer friendly.

> There are pockets of Texas, mostly in the Houston and " Golden Triangle "

area

> where unions are powerful, mostly the Oil and Chemical Workers, but most

of

> Texas is union unfriendly. So unless you belong to a union which has a

> contract with your employer, or you have a personal contract, which nobody

> but CEOs and other top managers do, you can be fired for any reason or no

> reason. If you apply for unemployment, your employer can protest and

often

> prevent you from drawing benefits. At least make you jump through

multiple

> hoops to get it, usually long after you've had to take some other type of

> employment to keep the kids in shoes.

>

> Texas is an employment at will state, and your employer can fire you for

the

> shape or your nose or the length of your hair unless you fall into a

> protected category. Those protected categories are defined mainly by

federal

> law, not state law. Most people don't have the money to fund a legal

battle,

> and few lawyers will take employment cases for a contingent fee because

the

> prospects of recovery are so dim and the awards so small even if you win.

>

> All aspects of employment law favorable to the worker have been generally

> decimated in Texas and over most of the rest of the country over the last

10

> years. Workers Compensation " reforms " , along with so-called " Tort

Reform "

> have rendered most workers powerless to fight a corporate employer and win

> anything significant. So much for " compassionate conservatism. " The only

> compassion in Texas is for corporations. It's practically impossible in

the

> State of Texas now to sue a corporation and win. There used to be lawyers

> who would take your case for a percentage of the award; they no longer

exist,

> because there are virtually no chances of significant awards.

>

> So you keep your mouth shut, do your job, and don't complain in Texas or

> you'll find yourself on the street looking for a job.

>

> Freedom of Speech is not an issue in the workplace in Texas. You either

play

> the game and suck up or you're dead meat unless you can show that you fall

> into a federally protected category and that your firing violated that

> protection. Not easy to do, and the process is slow and cumbersome. You

can

> go to the EEOC if you're in a protected category and wait out the process.

> You'll starve or croak before you'll win anything because even if they

find

> in your favor the employer can put off paying you through the appeals

process

> which can take years.

>

> Criticism of your employer can and usually will get you fired without

> recourse. Whistleblowers, although supposedly protected by law, almost

> always end up without a job and seldom win a cent for their troubles, and

if

> they do it's 10 years after the fact, and they end up in the hole after

legal

> expenses. And generally only those whistleblowers who are connected to

firms

> receiving federal funds are protected.

>

> By the way, if you're interested in these subjects, may I recommend a book

> for you to read. It's called " Shrub: The Short but Happy Political Life

of

> W. Bush " , by Molly Ivins, available from Amazon.com for $9.95.

Don't

> order this book if: you're a diehard reactionary conservative, not rich,

> don't have to work for a living, really think that Dubya loves the common

> people, or have Alzheimer's or are in the final stages of syphillis, are

mad

> at Hillary for making $100,000 on cow futures in a day (it took Dubya

several

> months to make 14 million off of the taxpayers of Arlington from an

> investment of around $600,000) or hate all Democrats. Otherwise, you may

> find this an informative and enlightening portrait of our probable next

> President. No comfort here for the common woman/man though. If you ain't

in

> the Country Club (and I don't mean Tritt's) then you ain't got a

dog

> in this fight. On the other hand, if you ain't a Buddhist Monk with a

> million to spend, you ain't got a dog in this fight neither. Moral to the

> story: Little People Don't Win, no matter who's the leader. Suits Rule,

but

> only when they produce profits. However, as opposed to the rest of us,

they

> have lives after firing. They go to other corporations and get employment

> contracts with Golden Parachutes. They deserve Golden Showers, but that's

> not the way things are.

>

> They get the goldmine; we get the shaft.

>

> Gene Gandy, JD, LP

> My opinions are my own.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> Have your say at

> http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953538308/

>

> eGroups.com Home: /group//

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry Ms. Malouf,

My comment was just that, a comment. It was not legal advice. I had always been told that employees will be paid unemployment for whatever reason they are separated. This is the spiel that the unemployment people have given me. I will give more thought to my comments in the future. But, then that is what keeps this list going. Someone makes a comment and others jump on it.

#2 Deals with the "right to work state" comment. They tell me that the reason they are paid unemployment is because it is a "right to work state" and that there are no union funds to fall back on during unemployment. (Simplified Explanation)

I never questioned this -- no reason. If you want to jump my case for a comment I made, join the crowd or, you can correct the grievous error (I assume that is what you attempted to do) and we all will learn something from this feaupau. I read your return comment and thought to myself that made sense to me. I hadn't given it another thought until I saw my name in this ridiculously large type. I want to thank you for the explanation. I've enjoyed the comments on this matter. Some more than others, but now that this horse has been lashed for the last time by Mr. Gandy, et al, lets get on with the rest of the herd.

I remain,

Gene Deck, Lt., LP, BAASCity of Devine EMSwebmaster@...

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

She was talking to Gene Deck from Devine. Bob Baca also had some legal "advice" whom we have not heard from since we asked for his explanation and sources -- kind of unusual for ol' Bob to have no comments. :-)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<Oops, Jana. Not Guilty. I haven't posted anything on the subject of employment law. That was somebody else who said they can't deny you . . .> Gene Gandy, JD, LPMy opinions are my own.

[Guest guest]

Ooops, Gene, sorry, I have no idea what message you're talking about!??!

I'd really love to see a copy of that message if you still have it!? Don't

recall mentioning your name lately (other than in vain!) LOL!!! But, I'm

glad you shared your knowledge with us. And so well said, I might add. You

know for a cowboy, you sure talk perty!

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!

Jana

FW,TX

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

> Oops, Jana. Not Guilty. I haven't posted anything on the subject of

> employment law. That was somebody else who said they can't deny you

> unemployment in the State of Texas, not me. I've been lurking on this

one.

> But since you've mentioned me by name, I'll come out of my cave and give

you

> my take on the subject. There is NO Freedom of Speech for employees in

the

> State of Texas.

>

> In fact, as you say, people get denied unemployment all the time in Texas.

> Texas is not " employee friendly. " It's big corporate employer friendly.

> There are pockets of Texas, mostly in the Houston and " Golden Triangle "

area

> where unions are powerful, mostly the Oil and Chemical Workers, but most

of

> Texas is union unfriendly. So unless you belong to a union which has a

> contract with your employer, or you have a personal contract, which nobody

> but CEOs and other top managers do, you can be fired for any reason or no

> reason. If you apply for unemployment, your employer can protest and

often

> prevent you from drawing benefits. At least make you jump through

multiple

> hoops to get it, usually long after you've had to take some other type of

> employment to keep the kids in shoes.

>

> Texas is an employment at will state, and your employer can fire you for

the

> shape or your nose or the length of your hair unless you fall into a

> protected category. Those protected categories are defined mainly by

federal

> law, not state law. Most people don't have the money to fund a legal

battle,

> and few lawyers will take employment cases for a contingent fee because

the

> prospects of recovery are so dim and the awards so small even if you win.

>

> All aspects of employment law favorable to the worker have been generally

> decimated in Texas and over most of the rest of the country over the last

10

> years. Workers Compensation " reforms " , along with so-called " Tort

Reform "

> have rendered most workers powerless to fight a corporate employer and win

> anything significant. So much for " compassionate conservatism. " The only

> compassion in Texas is for corporations. It's practically impossible in

the

> State of Texas now to sue a corporation and win. There used to be lawyers

> who would take your case for a percentage of the award; they no longer

exist,

> because there are virtually no chances of significant awards.

>

> So you keep your mouth shut, do your job, and don't complain in Texas or

> you'll find yourself on the street looking for a job.

>

> Freedom of Speech is not an issue in the workplace in Texas. You either

play

> the game and suck up or you're dead meat unless you can show that you fall

> into a federally protected category and that your firing violated that

> protection. Not easy to do, and the process is slow and cumbersome. You

can

> go to the EEOC if you're in a protected category and wait out the process.

> You'll starve or croak before you'll win anything because even if they

find

> in your favor the employer can put off paying you through the appeals

process

> which can take years.

>

> Criticism of your employer can and usually will get you fired without

> recourse. Whistleblowers, although supposedly protected by law, almost

> always end up without a job and seldom win a cent for their troubles, and

if

> they do it's 10 years after the fact, and they end up in the hole after

legal

> expenses. And generally only those whistleblowers who are connected to

firms

> receiving federal funds are protected.

>

> By the way, if you're interested in these subjects, may I recommend a book

> for you to read. It's called " Shrub: The Short but Happy Political Life

of

> W. Bush " , by Molly Ivins, available from Amazon.com for $9.95.

Don't

> order this book if: you're a diehard reactionary conservative, not rich,

> don't have to work for a living, really think that Dubya loves the common

> people, or have Alzheimer's or are in the final stages of syphillis, are

mad

> at Hillary for making $100,000 on cow futures in a day (it took Dubya

several

> months to make 14 million off of the taxpayers of Arlington from an

> investment of around $600,000) or hate all Democrats. Otherwise, you may

> find this an informative and enlightening portrait of our probable next

> President. No comfort here for the common woman/man though. If you ain't

in

> the Country Club (and I don't mean Tritt's) then you ain't got a

dog

> in this fight. On the other hand, if you ain't a Buddhist Monk with a

> million to spend, you ain't got a dog in this fight neither. Moral to the

> story: Little People Don't Win, no matter who's the leader. Suits Rule,

but

> only when they produce profits. However, as opposed to the rest of us,

they

> have lives after firing. They go to other corporations and get employment

> contracts with Golden Parachutes. They deserve Golden Showers, but that's

> not the way things are.

>

> They get the goldmine; we get the shaft.

>

> Gene Gandy, JD, LP

> My opinions are my own.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make history and take part in the first online majority survey.

> Voice your opinions on american politics and the next president.

> Have your say at

> http://click./1/1873/4/_/4981/_/953538308/

>

> eGroups.com Home: /group//

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2000 20:05:53 Central Standard Time,

jordan78@... writes:

<

Ooops, Gene, sorry, I have no idea what message you're talking about!??!

I'd really love to see a copy of that message if you still have it!? Don't

recall mentioning your name lately (other than in vain!) LOL!!! But, I'm

glad you shared your knowledge with us. And so well said, I might add. You

know for a cowboy, you sure talk perty!

Take care, stay safe, and practice mercy, ya'll!!

Jana

FW,TX

I think this round of posts got all tangled up somewhere around the line. I

thought you were replying to me about a post somebody else sent which I

didn't read but which implied that unemployment compensation was a slam dunk.

I wanted to set that straight and also to strike another blow for us having a

growing, powervul, rich organization to get laws passed that we need. I

tried to offend all the politicians equally so as not to show favor. Some

didn't like that, but you know us old cowboys. We're purty down right direct

at times.

Gene Gandy

The Opinnions are my Own

Re: Freedom of Speech in EMS

> Oops, Jana. Not Guilty. I haven't posted anything on the subject of

> employment law. That was somebody else who said they can't deny you

> unemployment in the State of Texas, not me. I've been lurking on this

one.

> But since you've mentioned me by name, I'll come out of my cave and give

you

> my take on the subject. There is NO Freedom of Speech for employees in

the

> State of Texas.

>

> In fact, as you say, people get denied unemployment all the time in Texas.

> Texas is not " employee friendly. " It's big corporate employer friendly.

> There are pockets of Texas, mostly in the Houston and " Golden Triangle "

area

> where unions are powerful, mostly the Oil and Chemical Workers, but most

of

> Texas is union unfriendly. So unless you belong to a union which has a

> contract with your employer, or you have a personal contract, which nobody

> but CEOs and other top managers do, you can be fired for any reason or no

> reason. If you apply for unemployment, your employer can protest and

often

> prevent you from drawing benefits. At least make you jump through

multiple

> hoops to get it, usually long after you've had to take some other type of

> employment to keep the kids in shoes.

>

> Texas is an employment at will state, and your employer can fire you for

the

> shape or your nose or the length of your hair unless you fall into a

> protected category. Those protected categories are defined mainly by

federal

> law, not state law. Most people don't have the money to fund a legal

battle,

> and few lawyers will take employment cases for a contingent fee because

the

> prospects of recovery are so dim and the awards so small even if you win.

>

> All aspects of employment law favorable to the worker have been generally

> decimated in Texas and over most of the rest of the country over the last

10

> years. Workers Compensation " reforms " , along with so-called " Tort

Reform "

> have rendered most workers powerless to fight a corporate employer and win

> anything significant. So much for " compassionate conservatism. " The only

> compassion in Texas is for corporations. It's practically impossible in

the

> State of Texas now to sue a corporation and win. There used to be lawyers

> who would take your case for a percentage of the award; they no longer

exist,

> because there are virtually no chances of significant awards.

>

> So you keep your mouth shut, do your job, and don't complain in Texas or

> you'll find yourself on the street looking for a job.

>

> Freedom of Speech is not an issue in the workplace in Texas. You either

play

> the game and suck up or you're dead meat unless you can show that you fall

> into a federally protected category and that your firing violated that

> protection. Not easy to do, and the process is slow and cumbersome. You

can

> go to the EEOC if you're in a protected category and wait out the process.

> You'll starve or croak before you'll win anything because even if they

find

> in your favor the employer can put off paying you through the appeals

process

> which can take years.

>

> Criticism of your employer can and usually will get you fired without

> recourse. Whistleblowers, although supposedly protected by law, almost

> always end up without a job and seldom win a cent for their troubles, and

if

> they do it's 10 years after the fact, and they end up in the hole after

legal

> expenses. And generally only those whistleblowers who are connected to

firms

> receiving federal funds are protected.

>

> By the way, if you're interested in these subjects, may I recommend a book

> for you to read. It's called " Shrub: The Short but Happy Political Life

of

> W. Bush " , by Molly Ivins, available from Amazon.com for $9.95.

Don't

> order this book if: you're a diehard reactionary conservative, not rich,

> don't have to work for a living, really think that Dubya loves the common

> people, or have Alzheimer's or are in the final stages of syphillis, are

mad

> at Hillary for making $100,000 on cow futures in a day (it took Dubya

several

> months to make 14 million off of the taxpayers of Arlington from an

> investment of around $600,000) or hate all Democrats. Otherwise, you may

> find this an informative and enlightening portrait of our probable next

> President. No comfort here for the common woman/man though. If you ain't

in

> the Country Club (and I don't mean Tritt's) then you ain't got a

dog

> in this fight. On the other hand, if you ain't a Buddhist Monk with a

> million to spend, you ain't got a dog in this fight neither. Moral to the

> story: Little People Don't Win, no matter who's the leader. Suits Rule,

but

> only when they produce profits. However, as opposed to the rest of us,

they

> have lives after firing. They go to other corporations and get employment

> contracts with Golden Parachutes. They deserve Golden Showers, but that's

> not the way things are.

>

> They get the goldmine; we get the shaft.

>

> Gene Gandy, JD, LP

> My opinions are my own.

>

>