Re: Sexual function not inportant to Docs??

[Guest guest]

Hi

I remember a mangement video being played to us.

The story went that this man had reached the height of his career, not only was he top man of a company but he fulfilled a life time ambition of flying his own jet. Flying his jet he was looking forward to a slap up meal and being home with his wife.

Suddenly a fault developed and they had to parachute out of the plane in the middle of the desert. His next and underlying need and wish was a drink of water!

I presume our man would be picked up and his needs would return to the worries of a rich man.

What this undelines is our priorities change with time. If we decide on radical treatment and recover, our wishes return to what we had before. This is not always appreciated by the medics who can offer much to help us.

Sexual function not inportant to Docs??

I am wondering if the medical community feels that sexual function is simple not an important issue to men or if I am misreading this one. As I talked to my doctor and the other doctors, both pre-op and post-op, I got the impression that I should be thankful the cancer is gone and not be concerned about sexual function. And yes, I am thrilled the cancer is gone. However those drives and desires certainly have not gone, and hopefully I will return to functioning in the not to distant future.Am I alone in this thinking, or has somehow the medical profession just decided that bedroom play is not necessary for most men, particularly if they have a prostate issue? I am interested in hearing others thoughts on this issue.

[Guest guest]

After Dave's surgery I emailed the surgeon and asking questions about ED, if we should try Viagra, etc. His reply was for me to get my mind off of sex and allow Dave to heal. At that moment I was glad that I was in Indiana and he in Florida... safer for him!

Honestly, I think he was a top notch LRP surgeon but I wasn't too happy with his response.

Shirely

DaveAge 52 - good health8/06 - PSA 27. Biopsy - Prostate CancerGleason 4 + 3 = 79/06 - Laprascopic Radical Prostatectomy w/some of both nerve bundles sparedGleaseon 5 + 3 = 8pT3a negative marginsNov. '06 - PSA 0.0

[Guest guest]

I think the answer to your question is not

that any conscious decision has been made to ignore the side effects of

treatment. I think it is more simple – the doctor is trained to ‘cure’

disease in a way he knows best. For surgeons this is surgery., so he

recommends surgery, operates and, as you say “…the cancer is gone….”

So he has done what he set out to do and

wonders why you should complain.

The hairy old joke about the announcement

by the surgeon at the conclusion of an operation is still true “The

operation was a success: however the patient died.”

All the best

Terry Herbert

in Melbourne

Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age

54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason 3+3=6: No treatment. June '04: TURP. Feb '07

PSA 30.4

My site is at www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

It is a

tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn’t know, and the less

a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything. Joyce

Carey

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of soaring1954

Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2007 11:11

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Sexual function not inportant to Docs??

I am wondering if the medical community feels that

sexual function is

simple not an important issue to men or if I am misreading this one. As

I talked to my doctor and the other doctors, both pre-op and post-op, I

got the impression that I should be thankful the cancer is gone and not

be concerned about sexual function. And yes, I am thrilled the cancer

is gone. However those drives and desires certainly have not gone, and

hopefully I will return to functioning in the not to distant future.

Am I alone in this thinking, or has somehow the medical profession just

decided that bedroom play is not necessary for most men, particularly

if they have a prostate issue? I am interested in hearing others

thoughts on this issue.

[Guest guest]

We saw two doctors who seemed to think it was important. Both are

fairly young. Doctor #1 has the aids at his office so you don't have

to pick them up other places and Doctor #2 stressed that you want to

try to preserve the sexual function.

>

> I am wondering if the medical community feels that sexual function

is

> simple not an important issue to men or if I am misreading this

one. As

> I talked to my doctor and the other doctors, both pre-op and post-

op, I

> got the impression that I should be thankful the cancer is gone and

not

> be concerned about sexual function. And yes, I am thrilled the

cancer

> is gone. However those drives and desires certainly have not gone,

and

> hopefully I will return to functioning in the not to distant future.

>

> Am I alone in this thinking, or has somehow the medical profession

just

> decided that bedroom play is not necessary for most men,

particularly

> if they have a prostate issue? I am interested in hearing others

> thoughts on this issue.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Soaring: Here are a few of my thoughts......I don't know about

the general medical community, but I think that perhaps experienced

urologists, especially, have heard just about every sad tale known to

man when it comes to sexual function. I think they realize it is an

important issue, but not as important as treating the cancer.

And when it comes down to it, the doctor is very likely not going to

be present in the bedroom to see the results of whatever he/she

prescribes for sexual function problems. So, they have to rely on

what they are told by us men about it and perhaps the story does get

a little 'old' to all the docs who have to listen to us. I am not

trying to defend what we can easily perceive as a lack of interest -

the doctor who treated me for my prostate cancer (surgery) was always

ready to prescribe medicine for me (trimix, Viagra, Levitra) when I

asked, but never ONCE since I had the surgery did he specifically ask

about my sexual function. He NEVER gave me any encouragement that

perhaps the one nerve bundle he " tried to save " (his words) might

actually at some point enable me to once again have an

erection.....didn't happen. Had I not brought up the topic, I doubt

he would EVER have asked about any sexual issues.

Saying the entire " medical community " paints a broad brush regarding

our bedroom play and in my case, the " medical community " has been -

primarily my interaction with a small number of doctors. Their

seeming disinterest perhaps reflects attitudes of our society in

general: sexual talk (and sometimes sex altogether) is something to

be avoided and people who want to discuss sexual issues may

have " something wrong with them. " And since many of us are single,

then in the view of many we have no need for sex anyway because we

are not married. It's kinda like the military " don't ask, don't

tell " policy regarding homosexuality - people just really don't want

to know about or hear our lamentations. They know we have

difficulties, but *please* keep them to yourselves.

You are certainly not alone in wondering if anyone, especially our

doctors, really care about our sexual function. I hope others share

their thoughts/experiences.

[Guest guest]

From what I gather I believe docs do what we hire them for...to fix the cancer. They, and we, ask them to do this first of all. A better question is to ask " how can you (the doc) make my life better" Docs like a good cure rate as it makes their careers look better. It attracts CUSTOMERS (they are businessmen as well as doctors, we are customers as well as patients) The whole dilemma here is to choose what is the best thing individually. That means the definition of what is best is left to the person with the disease. We are all adults with much life experience. We have been taught to believe in what modern science has to offer, and it offers a great deal. What the docs know nothing about is us as individual human beings...our wants, our hopes and wishes, etc. No matter how good they may be they can never understand each individual . We must weigh those life quality

decisions ourselves. Therein lies the dilemma for both the docs and us. Even the best of intentions can b\e misconstrued or misinterpreted. We are all on our own. soaring1954 wrote: I am wondering if the medical community feels that sexual function is simple not an important issue to men or if I am misreading this one. As I talked to my doctor and the other doctors, both pre-op and post-op, I got the impression that I should be thankful the cancer is

gone and not be concerned about sexual function. And yes, I am thrilled the cancer is gone. However those drives and desires certainly have not gone, and hopefully I will return to functioning in the not to distant future. Am I alone in this thinking, or has somehow the medical profession just decided that bedroom play is not necessary for most men, particularly if they have a prostate issue? I am interested in hearing others thoughts on this issue.

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[Guest guest]

Before surgery my doctor gave me and the wife a very frank outline of

what to expect in this area. After surgery he was actually more

concerned about it than I was it seemed. I suspect he was grading

himself on the operation? His pre-surgery assessment was pretty darn

accurate as it turns out. Give it time, it's been over a year for me

and things are just now getting somewhat normal, thank goodness. The

Viagra may have speeded up the process - if I could have tolerated the

side affects - I'd recommend it or something similiar for you starting

pretty early if possible.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Some time in the future, they will be able to cure prostate cancer and allow

the man to still have a good sex life. I strongly believe that some time in the

future no one will ever have to undergo surgery for prostate cancer. I believe

that some time in the future they will be able to treat prostate cancer much

like they treat breast cancer with a lumpectomy. If part of the prostate

is left, he may be able to have an ejaculation, however even small.

The whole idea of sex is to be able to deposit a few of those little guys

in that wonderful spot from which we all spring. Even though she may be

on the pill or past menopause, still we would like to leave that little gift.

I really miss not having an ejaculate. I can still have an orgasm, but it takes

a lot more stimulation. Some men claim that it doesn't matter, but to me it

does matter.

Dr. Onik and some others are now doing partial freezes or cryotherapy

on selected patients. He does as many as 50 biopsy sticks in order to map

the prostate. If it appears that part of it is clear, then he tries treat only the

part that has cancer. This would be similar to a breast cancer lumpectomy.

Brachytherapy can do something similar. If the cancer can be located, then

seed implants can be placed so that the cancer cells are treated. Some men

are able to have a small ejaculate after seed implants. I heard of one man

who was even able to father a child after seed implants.

High Intensity Focused Ultrasound may be one of the better therapies. However

it is still fairly new and we don't have any long term data on it.

One other very, very important item-do you really need to have therapy? Many

of the low PSA, and Gleason 3+3 or lower, may not need therapy. Perhaps

just Watchful Waiting or Active Surveillance is all that is needed. Remember

that the PSA will ordinarily correlate fairly closely to the cancer activity. Also

remember that the PSA is not perfect, but it is still the best test we have for

any cancer.

If you doctor does not seem to care about your sex life or Erectile Dysfunction

then perhaps you should look for one who does care.

I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author ofA Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for FREE at: http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/Read new edition for FREE at http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

I am wondering if the medical community feels that sexual function is simple not an important issue to men or if I am misreading this one. As I talked to my doctor and the other doctors, both pre-op and post-op, I got the impression that I should be thankful the cancer is gone and not be concerned about sexual function. And yes, I am thrilled the cancer is gone. However those drives and desires certainly have not gone, and hopefully I will return to functioning in the not to distant future.Am I alone in this thinking, or has somehow the medical profession just decided that bedroom play is not necessary for most men, particularly if they have a prostate issue? I am interested in hearing others thoughts on this issue.

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

I think you have figured it out accurately. Physicians in general,

and surgeons in particular, believe that the total loss of a man's sexual

abilities and pleasure is a small price to pay for treatment, which may

or may not be curative, for a potentially deadly disease.

After all, it isn't their sex life, it's the patient's.... and they're

only doing the best they can with far too little knowledge of the

disorder. If they could be more effective, they would be. And

if they could have fewer side effects with the same effectiveness, they

would.

Let's face it. It's our problem, not theirs. Doctors have

limits, and in prostate cancer, it shows. If all the " maybes "

were removed (they won't be) and you could be offered the straightforward

choice -- erectile dysfunction or death --

what would be your choice?

======================================================

At 07:11 PM 3/17/2007, soaring1954 wrote:

Am I alone in this thinking, or

has somehow the medical profession just

decided that bedroom play is not necessary for most men, particularly

if they have a prostate issue? I am interested in hearing others

thoughts on this issue.

I

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think you are avoiding the main point. So many doctors push surgery.

I freely admit that I am biased against surgery. I had surgery, but I

believe that there are several other therapies which do not cause as

much of a sexual dysfunction. I really, really do miss my prostate.

I wish I had it to do over.

I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author ofA Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for FREE at: http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/Read new edition for FREE at http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

I think you have figured it out accurately. Physicians in general, and surgeons in particular, believe that the total loss of a man's sexual abilities and pleasure is a small price to pay for treatment, which may or may not be curative, for a potentially deadly disease. After all, it isn't their sex life, it's the patient's.... and they're only doing the best they can with far too little knowledge of the disorder. If they could be more effective, they would be. And if they could have fewer side effects with the same effectiveness, they would. Let's face it. It's our problem, not theirs. Doctors have limits, and in prostate cancer, it shows. If all the "maybes" were removed (they won't be) and you could be offered the straightforward choice -- erectile dysfunction or death --what would be your choice? ======================================================At 07:11 PM 3/17/2007, soaring1954 wrote:

Am I alone in this thinking, or has somehow the medical profession just decided that bedroom play is not necessary for most men, particularly if they have a prostate issue? I am interested in hearing others thoughts on this issue.

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

, in my case my doctor did not " push " surgery on me. I was also a

candidate for radiation and my doctor explained that option to me. I

chose surgery because I thought that was the best chance I had of

totally ridding my body of the cancer that had been identified.

I agree with you - the resulting sexual difficulty is not a problem

that I blame on a doctor but a consequence of dealing with cancer. I

wish the doctor had shown more interest in this consequence, but I do

not blame him for the choice I made.