RE: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

[Guest guest]

Hi Rita,

If a prostate gland is removed, there

should be no measurable PSA. Where there is a measurable PSA it means that the

disease escaped the gland before the surgery, as you knew anyway from your previous

posting and as predicted by your father’s diagnostic numbers.

The radiotherapy is suggested in cases like

this because, if the disease has not metastasized to remote parts of the body

but is merely in the prostate bed, the radiation may be effective in dealing

with these escaped cells.

The ADT (Androgen Deprivation Therapy) –

what you refer to as hormone – is given to deal with a metastasized disease,

but generally speaking this therapy cannot cure the disease, merely manage it –

often for many years.

So what the doctors are suggesting is that

they zap any diseased cells that may be close to where the gland was but at the

same time deal with any that have spread further.

All the best,

Terry

Herbert in Melbourne, Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age

54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason 3+3=6: No treatment. February '07 PSA 30.4

My site is at www.yananow.net

As a

physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard

to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data: Dr

“Snuffy” Myers.

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Rita

Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2007

12:35 PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

My father just got his PSA result (done one month

after RP) = 1.2 .

The doc is really disappointed. He says it should have been = 0 .

What does this mean ??? He's now telling my dad he has to do

radiotherapy + hormono (Casodex 50mg/day for 1 month + Zoladex 10.8

mg/3 months for 3 years minimum). HOLY COW !!! I don't understand

WHY he suggests the radio (please read last update below).

Rita.

>

> Well, we got the results post RP (prostate + lymph node analysed)

> and we're pretty disappointed but not surprised :

>

> My father's Gleason was upgraded to a 9 (instead of an 8). The

> urologist analysed a lymph node (ganglion) and he found micro-mets

> in the sample. You guys/gals were right : The cancer has escaped

the

> prostate (but it didn't show up on any tests : bone scan, taco,

> etc.) ... Too small.

>

> The urologist said it's the first time in 25 years he's seen

> this ... I find that hard to believe. He wants to consult the

other

> urologist to see what should be our next BEST step (either

external

> radiation, hormonotherapy, etc.).

>

> I really need your imput ...

>

> What do you all think ? If there are micro-mets in a lymph node,

> there's a chance that there may be some more elsewhere. The doc is

> telling us that hormonotherapy has a lot of side effects (what are

> they?) and of course I don't trust external radiation at this

point

> because I'm afraid there are mets elsewhere. What else should we

be

> looking at ? He's only 63 years old. Do you all think his life is

in

> danger ? I'm thinking that hormonotherapy is probably the best

thing

> considering the situation.

>

>

> Rita xxx.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rita,

So sorry about your dad. By all means, he should see a good oncologist

who specializes in prostate cancer. Where do you live? Dr. Bob Liebowitz

in Los Angeles has had some very good success by placing his patients

on complete hormone ablation for one year, the let them go off therapy,

except for Proscar or Avodart maintenance. The PSA is closely monitored

and if it rises, then go back on treatment. This is called Intermittent therapy.

It seems to work well for many men.

I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author ofA Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for FREE at: http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/Read new edition for FREE at http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

My father just got his PSA result (done one month after RP) = 1.2 . The doc is really disappointed. He says it should have been = 0 . What does this mean ??? He's now telling my dad he has to do radiotherapy + hormono (Casodex 50mg/day for 1 month + Zoladex 10.8 mg/3 months for 3 years minimum). HOLY COW !!! I don't understand WHY he suggests the radio (please read last update below).Rita.

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rita,

An oncologist usually specializes in cancer therapy using drugs and chemo.

Urologists are often surgeons who specialize in diseases of the kidneys,

bladder and urine systems- However, many of them do practice giving

drugs and chemotherapy.

I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author ofA Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for FREE at: http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/Read new edition for FREE at http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

In Quebec. What's the difference between oncologist and urologist ?Rita.

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Can ADT cure some people ? Do some cancer cells die after ADT ?

Rita.

> >

> > Well, we got the results post RP (prostate + lymph node analysed)

> > and we're pretty disappointed but not surprised :

> >

> > My father's Gleason was upgraded to a 9 (instead of an 8). The

> > urologist analysed a lymph node (ganglion) and he found micro-

mets

> > in the sample. You guys/gals were right : The cancer has escaped

> the

> > prostate (but it didn't show up on any tests : bone scan, taco,

> > etc.) ... Too small.

> >

> > The urologist said it's the first time in 25 years he's seen

> > this ... I find that hard to believe. He wants to consult the

> other

> > urologist to see what should be our next BEST step (either

> external

> > radiation, hormonotherapy, etc.).

> >

> > I really need your imput ...

> >

> > What do you all think ? If there are micro-mets in a lymph node,

> > there's a chance that there may be some more elsewhere. The doc

is

> > telling us that hormonotherapy has a lot of side effects (what

are

> > they?) and of course I don't trust external radiation at this

> point

> > because I'm afraid there are mets elsewhere. What else should we

> be

> > looking at ? He's only 63 years old. Do you all think his life is

> in

> > danger ? I'm thinking that hormonotherapy is probably the best

> thing

> > considering the situation.

> >

> >

> > Rita xxx.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In Quebec. What's the difference between oncologist and urologist ?

Rita.

>

>

>

> Hi Rita,

>

> So sorry about your dad. By all means, he should see a good

oncologist

> who specializes in prostate cancer. Where do you live? Dr. Bob

Liebowitz

> in Los Angeles has had some very good success by placing his

patients

> on complete hormone ablation for one year, the let them go off

therapy,

> except for Proscar or Avodart maintenance. The PSA is closely

monitored

> and if it rises, then go back on treatment. This is called

Intermittent

> therapy.

> It seems to work well for many men.

>

>

>

> I wish you all the best

>

> Aubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author of

> A Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book

> for FREE at:

_http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/_

> (http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/)

> Read new edition for FREE at

> _http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htm_

(http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htm)

> Dr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

>

>

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 2/21/2007 8:40:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> rditanna@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> My father just got his PSA result (done one month after RP) = 1.2 .

> The doc is really disappointed. He says it should have been = 0 .

> What does this mean ??? He's now telling my dad he has to do

> radiotherapy + hormono (Casodex 50mg/day for 1 month + Zoladex

10.8

> mg/3 months for 3 years minimum). HOLY COW !!! I don't understand

> WHY he suggests the radio (please read last update below).

>

> Rita.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

[Guest guest]

Rita - No, at least based on what I know, have read etc over the last two years.ADT simply cuts off the supply of testosterone via the testicles. Testosterone in the 'vehicle'PSA uses to circulate throughout the blood system. In theory, ADT only lowers the PSA byhelping lessen the number PSA cells in the blood system. By doing so it can help shrink the tumorsin the metastasized areas. This can work for years, in some cases. EmersonFaith-Love-Hope-Winwww.flhw.org"the Big C" Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS Can ADT cure some people ? Do some cancer cells die after ADT ? Rita. > > > > Well, we got the results post RP (prostate + lymph node analysed) > > and we're pretty disappointed but not surprised : > > > > My father's Gleason was upgraded to a 9 (instead of an 8). The > > urologist analysed a lymph node (ganglion) and he found micro- mets > > in the sample. You guys/gals were right : The cancer has escaped > the > > prostate (but it didn't show up on any tests : bone scan, taco, > > etc.) ... Too small. > > > >

The urologist said it's the first time in 25 years he's seen > > this ... I find that hard to believe. He wants to consult the > other > > urologist to see what should be our next BEST step (either > external > > radiation, hormonotherapy, etc.). > > > > I really need your imput ... > > > > What do you all think ? If there are micro-mets in a lymph node, > > there's a chance that there may be some more elsewhere. The doc is > > telling us that hormonotherapy has a lot of side effects (what are > > they?) and of course I don't trust external radiation at this > point > > because I'm afraid there are mets elsewhere. What else should we > be > > looking at ? He's only 63 years old. Do you all think his life is > in > > danger ? I'm thinking that hormonotherapy is probably the best

> thing > > considering the situation. > > > > > > Rita xxx. > > >

[Guest guest]

Oncologists

are physicians who study, diagnose, and treat cancerous tumors. They practice

in hospitals and medical centers, university hospitals, and research

organizations. To become certified as an oncologist, a candidate must first

graduate from an accredited medical school before entering into training as a

specialist (e.g., internist, pediatrician) and subspecialist (e.g., medical

oncologist, pediatric oncologist-hematologist). There are several oncology

specialties and subspecialties:

Gynecological

oncology: The American Board of

Obstetrics and Gynecology (ABOG) examines and certifies obstetricians and

gynecologists who choose to acquire additional education and training to

subspecialize in the diagnosis and treatment of cancers of the female

reproductive organs (e.g., cervical cancer, breast cancer). See gynecologic

oncologist for more information.

Medical

oncology: The American Board of

Internal Medicine (ABIM) examines and certifies internists who choose to

acquire additional education and training to subspecialize in medical

oncology, the use of medical and chemotherapeutic treatments of cancer.

Medical

oncology and hematology: The American Board of

Internal Medicine (ABIM) examines and certifies internists who choose to

acquire additional education and training in the dual subspecialty of

medical oncology and hematology (the treatment of malignancies of the

blood and blood-forming tissues).

Pediatric

oncology and hematology: The American Board of

Pediatrics (ABP) examines and certifies pediatricians who choose to

acquire additional education and training to subspecialize in the

diagnosis and treatment of cancers in children (e.g., leukemia).

Radiation

oncology: The American Board of

Radiology (ABR) examines and certifies radiation oncologists, who

specialize in radiation treatment of cancers.

Surgical

oncology: The American Board of

Surgery (ABS) examines and certifies surgeons who are trained in several

types of surgical treatments, including biopsy, tumor staging, and tumor

resection (removal).

http://www.oncologychannel.com/oncologist.shtml

Unfortunately we do not have, that I know

of, certification for urological oncologists but they are known within the

community as individuals who specialize or treat a large number of prostate

cancer patients.’That means they are more likely to be aware of newer

cutting edge treatments.

A

urologist is a physician who has specialized knowledge and skill regarding

problems of the male and female urinary tract and the male reproductive organs.

Because of the variety of clinical problems encountered, knowledge of internal

medicine, pediatrics, gynecology, and other specialties is required of the

urologist. Urology is classified as a surgical subspecialty. A urologist with

advanced qualifications in surgery may be a fellow of the American College

of Surgeons (FACS).

Specialties Within Urology

The

American Urological Association has identified eight subspecialty areas:

Pediatric urology

Urologic oncology

Renal transplantation

Male infertility

Urinary tract stones

Female urology

Neurourology

Erectile dysfunction (impotence)

http://www.urologychannel.com/urologist.shtml

The

short answer is that the urologists are normally the specialists in localized

disease although they also may treat more advanced disease while oncologists emphasize

more advanced disease. Ideally everyone should work with a team of physicians

from the beginning, a urologist, oncologist, radiation oncologist. When you

talk to someone with a different focus you will be more likely get a broader

idea of how to treat the disease.

Kathy

Meade

From:

ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Rita

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007

9:11 AM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

In Quebec.

What's the difference between oncologist and urologist ?

Rita.

>

>

>

> Hi Rita,

>

> So sorry about your dad. By all means, he should see a good

oncologist

> who specializes in prostate cancer. Where do you live? Dr. Bob

Liebowitz

> in Los Angeles

has had some very good success by placing his

patients

> on complete hormone ablation for one year, the let them go off

therapy,

> except for Proscar or Avodart maintenance. The PSA is closely

monitored

> and if it rises, then go back on treatment. This is called

Intermittent

> therapy.

> It seems to work well for many men.

>

>

>

> I wish you all the best

>

> Aubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author of

> A Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book

> for FREE at:

_http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/_

> (http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/)

> Read new edition for FREE at

> _http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htm_

(http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htm)

> Dr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

>

>

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 2/21/2007 8:40:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> rditanna@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> My father just got his PSA result (done one month after RP) = 1.2 .

> The doc is really disappointed. He says it should have been = 0 .

> What does this mean ??? He's now telling my dad he has to do

> radiotherapy + hormono (Casodex 50mg/day for 1 month + Zoladex

10.8

> mg/3 months for 3 years minimum). HOLY COW !!! I don't understand

> WHY he suggests the radio (please read last update below).

>

> Rita.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR>

AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

[Guest guest]

Rita,

There have been no studies that show that

hormones do cure men and the medical community considers it palliative care but

I had one doctor say that there are some men who live man years with hormone

therapy and in fact may be taken off hormones and do not have a recurrence. It

is not true with most men though unfortunately.

I do not like the word “cure”.

Cancer is a disease that may come back even after years of no symptoms or signs

of growth. It can just quietly hide in the body so patients need to be closely monitored.

Kathy

From:

ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Emerson

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007

9:50 AM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

Rita - No, at least based on what I

know, have read etc over the last two years.

ADT simply cuts off the supply of testosterone via the testicles.

Testosterone in the 'vehicle'

PSA uses to circulate throughout the blood system. In theory, ADT only

lowers the PSA by

helping lessen the number PSA cells in the blood system. By doing so it

can help shrink the tumors

in the metastasized areas. This can work for years, in some cases.

Emerson

Faith-Love-Hope-Win

www.flhw.org

" the Big C "

Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

Can ADT cure some people ? Do some cancer cells die after ADT ?

Rita.

[Guest guest]

Rita

The oncologist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncology

The Urologist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urology

"il faut d'abord durer." Hemingway

Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

In Quebec. What's the difference between oncologist and urologist ?Rita.>> > > Hi Rita,> > So sorry about your dad. By all means, he should see a good oncologist> who specializes in prostate cancer. Where do you live? Dr. Bob Liebowitz> in Los Angeles has had some very good success by placing his patients> on complete hormone ablation for one year, the let them go off therapy,> except for Proscar or Avodart maintenance. The PSA is closely monitored> and if it rises, then go back on treatment. This is called Intermittent > therapy.> It seems to work well for many men.> > > > I wish you all the best> > Aubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author of> A Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book > for FREE at: _http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/_ > (http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/) > Read new edition for FREE at > _http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htm_ (http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htm) > Dr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision> > > > > > > > > > > > My father just got his PSA result (done one month after RP) = 1.2 . > The doc is really disappointed. He says it should have been = 0 . > What does this mean ??? He's now telling my dad he has to do > radiotherapy + hormono (Casodex 50mg/day for 1 month + Zoladex 10.8 > mg/3 months for 3 years minimum). HOLY COW !!! I don't understand > WHY he suggests the radio (please read last update below).> > Rita.> > > > > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com.>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

The answer you gave is not quite right. Prostate Cancer cells must have

testosterone in order to live. It is like a food for them. Incidentally, breast

cancer cells also must have estrogen in order to survive.

In some cases, the cancer cells may evolve to the point where they can

survive without the hormones. In that case we have to resort to chemotherapy

or some of the other therapies.

Cancer cells also must have a good blood supply in order to grow. So

they produce a substance which causes the body to grow new blood

vessels just to feed them. This is called angiogenesis. There are several

anti-angiogenesis drugs which are being tested. These drugs will help

to counteract the cancer substance which causes the body to build new

blood vessels.

I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.) Author ofA Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for FREE at: http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrim/Read new edition for FREE at http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/capilgr.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

Rita - No, at least based on what I know, have read etc over the last two years.ADT simply cuts off the supply of testosterone via the testicles. Testosterone in the 'vehicle'PSA uses to circulate throughout the blood system. In theory, ADT only lowers the PSA byhelping lessen the number PSA cells in the blood system. By doing so it can help shrink the tumorsin the metastasized areas. This can work for years, in some cases.

EmersonFaith-Love-Hope-Winwww.flhw.org"the Big C"

Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

Can ADT cure some people ? Do some cancer cells die after ADT ?Rita.

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

Rita,

As Kathy says, in unusual cases, a very

few men do not have a recurrence after stopping ADT (Androgen Deprivation

Therapy). One such man is Doug Adam whose story is here http://www.yananow.net/Mentors/DougA.htm

Although he was a young man when he was diagnosed in 1991, he had a Gleason

Score of 5+5=10 – as high as you can get. He had surgery, radiotherapy

and hormone therapy. In his latest update of his story he says:

<snip>

After stopping all treatment in 19th August 1998, my PSA is still less than 0.1

ng/ml and I am in good nick apart from increasingly creaky bones! I was

diagnosed in 1991 so after 15 years, that is a great result and I pray it

continues! <snip>

There are no guarantees in this life –

certainly not as far as prostate cancer is concerned, but stories like Doug’s

show that there is often life after diagnosis. I am sure we all hope that your

father’s results will be as good as Doug’s.

All the best,

Terry

Herbert in Melbourne, Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age

54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason 3+3=6: No treatment. February '07 PSA 30.4

My site is at www.yananow.net

As a

physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard

to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data: Dr

“Snuffy” Myers.

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Kathy Meade

Sent: Friday, 23 February 2007

2:08 AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: RE: Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

Rita,

There have been no studies that show that hormones do cure men and

the medical community considers it palliative care but I had one doctor say

that there are some men who live man years with hormone therapy and in fact may

be taken off hormones and do not have a recurrence. It is not true with most

men though unfortunately.

I do not like the word “cure”. Cancer is a disease that

may come back even after years of no symptoms or signs of growth. It can just

quietly hide in the body so patients need to be closely monitored.

Kathy

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Emerson

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007

9:50 AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re: Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

Rita - No,

at least based on what I know, have read etc over the last two years.

ADT simply cuts off the supply of testosterone via the testicles. Testosterone

in the 'vehicle'

PSA uses to circulate throughout the blood system. In theory, ADT only

lowers the PSA by

helping lessen the number PSA cells in the blood system. By doing so it

can help shrink the tumors

in the metastasized areas. This can work for years, in some cases.

Emerson

Faith-Love-Hope-Win

www.flhw.org

" the Big C "

----- Original

Message ----

From: Rita <rditannaglobetrotter (DOT) net>

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:08:07 AM

Subject:

Re: Post RP Update #2 - BAD NEWS

Can ADT

cure some people ? Do some cancer cells die after ADT ?

Rita.