Re: Telling nada she needs to seek help -- any experience?

[Guest guest]

In my family's case it wasn't gentle. Nada had hurled a particularly

vicious insult at my Sister, who finally had enough of it. Before

breaking off all contact with nada Sister stated that in order for

there to be even a possibility of reconciliation, nada would have to

go into therapy. It took 6 months of no contact plus weekly therapy

for nada to apologize to Sister, so they are reconciled for the time

being. (I'm taking bets on how long its going to last.)

So, in my nada's case, getting her into therapy was an ultimatum, and

Sister and I were prepared to never speak to her again if she didn't.

-Annie

>

> I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you should only

> make a decision about confronting your loved one about having BPD

> after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access to

> therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share your

stories?

>

> My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a psychiatric

> consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my stories and

> a sample selection of emails.

>

> Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I kept

> screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her that

> she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is not the

> conversation to be had, I know this.

>

> Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> therapist, etc?

>

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

OMG :0) sally, I can give it to you from the nada's mouth.

LOLOL This is what my nada wrote to me after a talk.

(Thank you for your most unprofessional diagnosis..... It's nice to

know that this carries more weight then " chronic depressive disorder " ,

which is my proper diagnosis. You know nothing of my life yet sit in

judgment now.

FYI...I was in therapy almost 5 years and am no longer in need of any

medication or any other help. I am not attacking you or your brother.

Tell me please just when you got your degree in psychiatry. I don't

know if you need help or not as I have not been around you in many

years. What you told me the last time we had a private conversation

has shown me your true colors. My perception of the situation is just

fine....you have no idea of what's gone on between your brother and I

in years... when I went home after you told me you did not want me in

your life, I was very upset..... stopped by (my brother)...his

comment was that you were evil, always had been and always would be.

His words, not mine.)

Lovely, just lovely?

Sunnyside UP!

dawn

>

> I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you should only

> make a decision about confronting your loved one about having BPD

> after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access to

> therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share your

stories?

>

> My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a psychiatric

> consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my stories and

> a sample selection of emails.

>

> Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I kept

> screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her that

> she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is not the

> conversation to be had, I know this.

>

> Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> therapist, etc?

>

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

I personally think saying " I think you have BPD and you'd better go

to therapy or else... " is a really bad idea.

When I set LC boundaries with my mother, I said, " If you are unhappy

with your relationships, you might consider talking to a professional

about them. "

Any " ultimatum " is better stated in terms of behavior, e.g., " I will

hang up when you yell, " or, " I do not want you to see my children

until I can trust that you have changed your behavior. " I know some

people here have said, " I don't want to talk to you unless you are in

therapy. " Maybe in their situation that works, but there are no

guarantees with that. They might find a therapist (like my mom did)

that they can hoodwink and won't find anything diagnosable about them.

My own personal feeling is that trying to get the BPD parent into

therapy is a codependent behavior--trying to " fix " them. Better to

present and understand therapy as their choice, imo.

kt

>

> I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you should

only

> make a decision about confronting your loved one about having BPD

> after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access to

> therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share your

stories?

>

> My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a

psychiatric

> consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my stories

and

> a sample selection of emails.

>

> Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I kept

> screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her that

> she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is not

the

> conversation to be had, I know this.

>

> Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> therapist, etc?

>

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

I would suggest NOT mentioning BPD at all, but say something

like " perhaps you could use someone to talk to other than me " .

Mine is in therapy for " Post Traumatic Stress Disorder " and her

therapist wouldn't even share a BPD diagnosis with her... one tried

and then mum refused to go back " didn't know she had it in for me " ,

etc. If she heard a BPD diagnosis from me she would absolutely flip.

It's a lot easier if they don't have to acknowledge their own

responsibility for behaviour/if they don't see your suggestion that

they go into therapy as criticism.

Perhaps that's not enough in terms of a " confrontation " though? It's

the closest I can get though.

>

> I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you should

only

> make a decision about confronting your loved one about having BPD

> after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access to

> therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share your

stories?

>

> My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a

psychiatric

> consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my stories

and

> a sample selection of emails.

>

> Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I kept

> screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her that

> she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is not

the

> conversation to be had, I know this.

>

> Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> therapist, etc?

>

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

I meant to say also that you can offer therapy as a means to help

change behavior. Like I said, I think expecting a change in behavior

much more helpful than simply asking someone to enroll in therapy.

But you can say, " If you need help understanding how to change your

behavior, a therapist might be able to offer you some suggestions. "

That way, they can't just say to themselves " I'm in therapy so that

itself should be good enough, I'm still free to act however I want, I

don't have to change anything. " Outlining specific changes in

behavior is much more helpful, imo.

kt

>

> I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you should

only

> make a decision about confronting your loved one about having BPD

> after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access to

> therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share your

stories?

>

> My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a

psychiatric

> consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my stories

and

> a sample selection of emails.

>

> Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I kept

> screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her that

> she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is not

the

> conversation to be had, I know this.

>

> Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> therapist, etc?

>

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

ally,

I don't mean to sound super negative here (which I have been feeling

lately, unfortunately) but I don't think therapy can help those who

are truly borderlines. They just can't accept any responsibility for

their actions and their targets (us) are the " ones with the problems "

Nada went to therapy after she tried to kill herself 2x (while on the

phone with me, screaming at me that she had to kill herself because I

wouldn't fix my brother's legal problems--relating to his ex, NOTHING

to do with me) and I told her I wouldn't speak to her until she went

to therapy. What a joke that was. After four months the sick thing

went to therapy and called me and said " my therapist said there is

nothing wrong with trying to commit suicide and blaming your child---

people do it all the time. My therapist said you are the one with

the problem. " Well alrighty then! Sigh.

I've (fortunately) learned that I cannot change her actions no matter

what I do. She will never, ever change. I've finally come to terms

with that. I think that is the nature of the beast with borderlines.

> >

> > I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you should

> only

> > make a decision about confronting your loved one about having BPD

> > after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access to

> > therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share your

> stories?

> >

> > My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a

> psychiatric

> > consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my stories

> and

> > a sample selection of emails.

> >

> > Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I kept

> > screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her

that

> > she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is not

> the

> > conversation to be had, I know this.

> >

> > Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> > therapist, etc?

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have had too many therapists " treating " nada that were in lala land

and believed things she had to say about her ungratefull daughter

(me) " narcisisstic " husband and wonderfull son (messed up brother)

till finally ONE therapist diagnosed her with BPD and from then on it

got even worse cause now she had an excuse for every tempertantrum

and nasty word she uttered. She claimed that we were not handling her

behavior apropriately. Therefore we were to blame that her therapy

failed.

for a Bordeline - the diagnoses became a catchall for all thier

actions. Therapy does not work for BPDs and can even make the

situation worse. Especailly if you get some star eyed shrink that

thinks things will change if eveyone else just tried a little harder

to deal with it. (yeah and they are not the ones who deal with it

24/7) The one thing it might do is give the other family members a

sense of validation that Mom is mentally ill and nothing is really

wrong with the rest of us.

My advise would be to get therapy for your own self without nadas

knowledge or interference. This is to undo the damage she did to you

and to help " train " you how to deal with life as a normal person

would.

just my two cents and then some,

M

> > >

> > > I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you

should

> > only

> > > make a decision about confronting your loved one about having

BPD

> > > after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access

to

> > > therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share

your

> > stories?

> > >

> > > My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a

> > psychiatric

> > > consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my

stories

> > and

> > > a sample selection of emails.

> > >

> > > Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I

kept

> > > screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her

> that

> > > she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is

not

> > the

> > > conversation to be had, I know this.

> > >

> > > Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> > > therapist, etc?

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm in a similar situation. My nada has been going to therapy for 6

months because Sister and I gave her an ultimatum. Sister and I were

both surprised that nada went at all, so, that was a good sign. We

have subsequently found out that nada claims that she only goes

because she is " being punished " by Sister and me.

However, Nada recently wrote a letter of apology to Sister (and me)

and now expects that its all over and done and things can get back to

normal. That's why nada phoned me anonymously; I didn't acknowledge

her apology or accept it.

Her nada-think has always been, " OK, you win, I apologize. *Now you

have to forgive me.* "

Well, I don't feel like it this time.

This has been nada's pattern my whole life. She treats us like

garbage, then if we get angry and pull away, nada sobs and contritely

apologizes and promises to not do it again.

But the remorse lasts only as long as Sister and I play the role of

her robot slaves and allow her to abuse us at will. When we again

become exasperated and hurt because her expectations are unmet and she

rains criticism and other abuse on us, we pull away again...and the

pattern repeats, on and on and on. I think in " Stop Walking On

Eggshells " this is called " hoovering " , getting sucked back in by promises.

The only difference is that this time its in writing, and nada

apologized in the presence of the therapist at a joint session with

Sister.

So, supposedly I am to have a joint session by phone with nada and the

therapist this week.

This will devastate nada, so I'm not sure I can say this to her, but

this is what I want to say:

" I'm just tired, mom. You have done this my whole life: you project

your unhappiness on me, dump all your anger and frustration on me,

then you apologize and promise to not do it again. Its one of my

earliest memories of you. I'm happy you are in therapy, I'm glad you

apologized to Sister and me, again, but I'm at the point where I guess

I simply don't believe its real. I'm just tired of worrying about how

you feel and whether you are going to react badly to any given

situation, its stressing me out to the point where I'm ill. I need

peace, mom. I can't take the drama anymore. "

That would be like dropping the atomic bomb in that therapists office.

I wonder if I'll do that or not.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I was reading Walking on Eggshells and I know it says you should

> > only

> > > make a decision about confronting your loved one about having BPD

> > > after making a " plan " with your therapist. I don't have access to

> > > therapy, so I was hoping some of you might be able to share your

> > stories?

> > >

> > > My nada is not formally diagnosed (to her knowledge) but a

> > psychiatric

> > > consult I work with has diagnosed her as such based on my stories

> > and

> > > a sample selection of emails.

> > >

> > > Last night I had a horrible dream (venting of stress) where I kept

> > > screaming at nada " You are sick! " and trying to explain to her

> that

> > > she had BPD while yelling and crying. Clearly, I know this is not

> > the

> > > conversation to be had, I know this.

> > >

> > > Did anyone else have to gently ease their nada into seeing a

> > > therapist, etc?

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> The only difference is that this time its in writing, and nada

> apologized in the presence of the therapist at a joint session with

> Sister.

>

> So, supposedly I am to have a joint session by phone with nada and

the

> therapist this week.

>

> This will devastate nada, so I'm not sure I can say this to her, but

> this is what I want to say:

> " I'm just tired, mom. You have done this my whole life: you project

> your unhappiness on me, dump all your anger and frustration on me,

> then you apologize and promise to not do it again. Its one of my

> earliest memories of you. I'm happy you are in therapy, I'm glad

you

> apologized to Sister and me, again, but I'm at the point where I

guess

> I simply don't believe its real. I'm just tired of worrying about

how

> you feel and whether you are going to react badly to any given

> situation, its stressing me out to the point where I'm ill. I need

> peace, mom. I can't take the drama anymore. "

>

> That would be like dropping the atomic bomb in that therapists

office.

> I wonder if I'll do that or not.

>

> -Annie

>

Annie-

I don't blame you for being skeptical of the apology and not being

willing to go back for more. I know someone has posted about their

Nada being like the Dementors in Harry Potter that literally suck the

life out of people. I can relate to that. There were times when the

thought of having to " deal " with Nada literally made me sick to my

stomach. I was tired of being the receptacle for her never-ending

gobstobber of negativity. There was a time in my life when she was

more negative about other people than me...but then the switch was

thrown and I was subject to a never ending barrage of " concerns. "

She felt she had the right to say anything she please because she was

my mother and she only had my best interests at heart. Right. Good

one.

I guess in some ways, it's good your mother is in therapy. However,

the prospects for true change are pretty bleak. I also loved your

mother's assertion that because she apologized you " have " to forgive

her. It just shows how much she truly doesn't get it. It's not just

about the words " I'm sorry, " it's about a pattern of abhorrent

behavior. Chances are, you have already " forgiven " your mother for

the events as I forgave my mother for the various things she did.

However, experience showed me that my mother would not change her

behavior. Consequently, although I can accept her apology for what

it is, I don't have to offer up my time and energies as a

consequence. I would rather spend my free time with people I enjoy

being around. Nada would like a " do over. " However, there is just

too much history stacked up against that prospect. I have been very

consistent in my position. As a direct result, as a consequence my

parents just recently relocated to my brother's state. I feel bad

for my brother because he knows about Nada, but he doesn't know what

it is like to live in the thick of things because he has been away

from my parents for the past 20 years save a few visits.

No matter how your mother takes whatever it is you decide to say to

her, I know you know you aren't responsible for her feelings. You

can't control those. You have every right to take care of yourself

by keeping your distance. The more I have been away from the

craziness, the more I realize just how much it had affected me and

how much better I feel that I have that distance. You have the right

to a drama-free life!

take care-

JJFan