Re: changing on a dime....

[Guest guest]

Well, being raised by a bpd mother (or do both your parents have pds?)

has some pretty devastating effects on a child's sense of their own

individuality. Our personal boudaries/self-hood, were violated

repeatedly (if not constantly) throughout our developmental years and

into adulthood by a mentally ill person who had no boundaries herself.

So you as the sane child of an insane mother had to warp reality and

allow mommy to treat you any way she wanted to, any time she felt like

it whether you understood why, or not.

We had to adapt to insanity to survive.

(That's why I harp so annoyingly and incessantly on that note: if you

have small children please think twice, and think again, about

exposing them to insanity. My nada was sweet as pie to Sister and me

half the time, and the other half she was mean and crazy. Just the

fact that we had to adapt to her insane mood swings was damaging, let

alone the other abuse. Why do that to your child, why allow their

little minds to be bewildered, scared and warped by an insane person?)

That hyper-bonding that (some of) our nadas did to us screwed us up

pretty well, made us super-adaptive to whoever we happen to be with at

the moment. It took me years to realize that in some ways, I didn't

really know who *I* am, what I wanted, what I liked, etc.

In my case, a good example of how warped my perception was: my best

friend from childhood, whom I remained in contact with until a few

years ago, is a raging narcissist. I was used to the demanding,

bullying, critical, totally self-centered, mean, falsely jolly

behavior; it was my " normal. " (An example of former best friend's

level of insanity: when I finally broke off our friendship, she began

harassing me on the Internet. Its still going on... for 4 years now.)

On some level I realized that that's the kind of man I felt attracted

to, as well, and it scared the crap out of me. Some part of my brain

recognized that that's exactly who I'd wind up married to: a male

version of my nada, and the part of my brain still able to process the

idea of self-preservation didn't want that. It was thoroughly

intergrated into *my* personality that love=absorbtion (I didn't exist

as an individual anymore) and love=abuse.

It takes time to re-parent ourselves. I feel much more individuated

now, I have several friends whose company I enjoy, and its good to

realize that I don't feel " absorbed " or abused by any of them. I'm

not overly-close with any of them, either, I think that's not healthy

to become overly-attached to any one person.

Who knows, I may even find a nice guy some day, too.

-Annie

>

> I am first glad to say that my 'rents are on their way to

Antarctica. Given

> that I am in the Northeast US, that seems far enough away for me.

> I'm having some issues with myself - I keep feeling like people can

change

> the way that they feel about me at any moment. I have one friend

who I used

> to see a lot, but don't seem to hear from as much. (as in see them

every

> weekend, but only seen them once this year) Rationally I don't think it

> makes sense to the rest of the world, but as a KO, it does. I feel bad,

> like I've done something to chase these people away. My friend is

pregnant,

> so I guess that would change things, and I'm working hard on my end

to plan

> her surprise baby shower. Now this friend can be sometimes selfish and

> since I am rarely selfish, it is frustrating to me - and pregnancy

seems to

> have brought it more. Maybe she is sensing that in me and doesn't

want to

> be around me? I don't know, but I really hate feeling abandoned.

Right now

> I feel abandoned and that it is all my fault - I said the wrong

thing, did

> the wrong thing... I don't know.... but I do know it feels awful.

>

> Sometimes I think I could exist better in a world that was just only me.

> I'm good with myself until I get around other people, and then all

of that

> comfort and sense of self seems to evaporate in the haze of other

people's

> needs.

>

>

>

> Shari

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just want to say I can relate to this a lot. I don't know the answer. I

think one of my biggest challenges is to discover how to feel like I

belong. I have always felt a little alienated from other people. I

struggle with feeling left out a lot. I don't know if I am actually being

left out or if I am somehow doing it to myself. It does feel safer to be

alone. It feels confusing trying to navigate relationships. I feel like

there is a rulebook I never got a copy of!

> I am first glad to say that my 'rents are on their way to Antarctica.

> Given

> that I am in the Northeast US, that seems far enough away for me.

> I'm having some issues with myself - I keep feeling like people can change

> the way that they feel about me at any moment. I have one friend who I used

> to see a lot, but don't seem to hear from as much. (as in see them every

> weekend, but only seen them once this year) Rationally I don't think it

> makes sense to the rest of the world, but as a KO, it does. I feel bad,

> like I've done something to chase these people away. My friend is pregnant,

> so I guess that would change things, and I'm working hard on my end to plan

> her surprise baby shower. Now this friend can be sometimes selfish and

> since I am rarely selfish, it is frustrating to me - and pregnancy seems to

> have brought it more. Maybe she is sensing that in me and doesn't want to

> be around me? I don't know, but I really hate feeling abandoned. Right now

> I feel abandoned and that it is all my fault - I said the wrong thing, did

> the wrong thing... I don't know.... but I do know it feels awful.

>

> Sometimes I think I could exist better in a world that was just only me.

> I'm good with myself until I get around other people, and then all of that

> comfort and sense of self seems to evaporate in the haze of other people's

> needs.

>

> Shari

>

>

[Guest guest]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YOU WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best quote of the month: " It was thoroughly

intergrated into *my* personality that love=absorbtion (I didn't exist

as an individual anymore) and love=abuse. "

I have always been what anyone around me wanted. I was so

without " me " that I was a good " them " to anyone...

You can only imagine the abuse that brought on... and all I thought

was, 'well, if I was a BETTER 'them', this wouldn't happen...

therefore I DESERVE it... "

Oh wow.

Not anymore.

I'm me. I exist. I've existed all along. I may dance with joy, I

may cry tears of frustration and fear and longing... but these are my

emotions worthy of the reactions I choose to have... not because

someone wants to make me jump to fill their needs.

I don't believe Nada knew what she was starting (and how she

contributes to it to this day) but, none-the-less, the ball started

under her jurisdiction... and ends under mine.

Lynnette

> >

> > I am first glad to say that my 'rents are on their way to

> Antarctica. Given

> > that I am in the Northeast US, that seems far enough away for me.

> > I'm having some issues with myself - I keep feeling like people

can

> change

> > the way that they feel about me at any moment. I have one friend

> who I used

> > to see a lot, but don't seem to hear from as much. (as in see

them

> every

> > weekend, but only seen them once this year) Rationally I don't

think it

> > makes sense to the rest of the world, but as a KO, it does. I

feel bad,

> > like I've done something to chase these people away. My friend is

> pregnant,

> > so I guess that would change things, and I'm working hard on my

end

> to plan

> > her surprise baby shower. Now this friend can be sometimes

selfish and

> > since I am rarely selfish, it is frustrating to me - and pregnancy

> seems to

> > have brought it more. Maybe she is sensing that in me and doesn't

> want to

> > be around me? I don't know, but I really hate feeling abandoned.

> Right now

> > I feel abandoned and that it is all my fault - I said the wrong

> thing, did

> > the wrong thing... I don't know.... but I do know it feels awful.

> >

> > Sometimes I think I could exist better in a world that was just

only me.

> > I'm good with myself until I get around other people, and then

all

> of that

> > comfort and sense of self seems to evaporate in the haze of other

> people's

> > needs.

> >

> >

> >

> > Shari

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> I feel like

> there is a rulebook I never got a copy of!

>

Wow - that is really how it goes. I wonder if we could come up with a list

of common KO thoughts and provide a better interpretation? I don't know, a

rule book for us.

I'm trying to remember that at one point I decided that any friend who

doesn't let me be me is just a user. I have friends I like and who feel

comfortable with me - and who I can disagree with without drama. I don't

wonder what they think of me, I know they love me. I guess I have to trust

my own judgement.

[Guest guest]

Funny you mention a rulebook that you never got. My therapist and I

have been working on compiling a list of 'rules of engagement'... but

for Nada/me but also for me/others. As you well know... it sucks to

be left out at sea without a way to find land...

Here are some brief thoughts:

1. It's NORMAL & HEALTHY for me to want to be stable.

2. I'm worthy of finding that land.

3. Emotions/feelings I have won't kill me. They're ONLY

emotions/feelings.

4. No one can hurt me anymore that I can't survive.

5. That little girl that got left at sea can be saved, by me.

You get the idea...

Lynnette

>

> > I feel like

> > there is a rulebook I never got a copy of!

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Wow - that is really how it goes. I wonder if we could come up

with a list

> of common KO thoughts and provide a better interpretation? I don't

know, a

> rule book for us.

>

> I'm trying to remember that at one point I decided that any friend

who

> doesn't let me be me is just a user. I have friends I like and who

feel

> comfortable with me - and who I can disagree with without drama. I

don't

> wonder what they think of me, I know they love me. I guess I have

to trust

> my own judgement.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Super!

Would you add these to The Rulebook thread I started?

Lynnette

> > >

> > > > I feel like

> > > > there is a rulebook I never got a copy of!

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Wow - that is really how it goes. I wonder if we could come up

> > with a list

> > > of common KO thoughts and provide a better interpretation? I

don't

> > know, a

> > > rule book for us.

> > >

> > > I'm trying to remember that at one point I decided that any

friend

> > who

> > > doesn't let me be me is just a user. I have friends I like and

who

> > feel

> > > comfortable with me - and who I can disagree with without

drama. I

> > don't

> > > wonder what they think of me, I know they love me. I guess I

have

> > to trust

> > > my own judgement.

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Shari Lynn - I posted the other day about 'my fleas' and how I daily

recognize things in myself that are a product of nada. This " I keep

feeling like people can change the way that they feel about me at any

moment. "

is yet another. I do feel exactly this way, and I never really

thought there was anything wrong with it! It's a lot of pressure to

constantly feel like you might do or say the wrong thing at any

moment.

I also feel like I don't really 'get the rules' of friendships and am

often an outsider looking in. Perhaps all of us KO, can move to the

same town somewhere and become friends/neighbors with each other

I came home from an uncomfortable group situation the other day and

played with my daugthers (3yrs & 1 1/2 yrs). It was so enjoyable to

be in my babies company after feeling so left out in this other

situation. They love me so much just as myself.

-

>

> I am first glad to say that my 'rents are on their way to

Antarctica. Given

> that I am in the Northeast US, that seems far enough away for me.

> I'm having some issues with myself - I keep feeling like people can

change

> the way that they feel about me at any moment. I have one friend

who I used

> to see a lot, but don't seem to hear from as much. (as in see them

every

> weekend, but only seen them once this year) Rationally I don't

think it

> makes sense to the rest of the world, but as a KO, it does. I feel

bad,

> like I've done something to chase these people away. My friend is

pregnant,

> so I guess that would change things, and I'm working hard on my end

to plan

> her surprise baby shower. Now this friend can be sometimes selfish

and

> since I am rarely selfish, it is frustrating to me - and pregnancy

seems to

> have brought it more. Maybe she is sensing that in me and doesn't

want to

> be around me? I don't know, but I really hate feeling abandoned.

Right now

> I feel abandoned and that it is all my fault - I said the wrong

thing, did

> the wrong thing... I don't know.... but I do know it feels awful.

>

> Sometimes I think I could exist better in a world that was just

only me.

> I'm good with myself until I get around other people, and then all

of that

> comfort and sense of self seems to evaporate in the haze of other

people's

> needs.

>

>

>

> Shari

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I have one friend who I used

> to see a lot, but don't seem to hear from as much. (as in see them

every

> weekend, but only seen them once this year) Rationally I don't

think it

> makes sense to the rest of the world, but as a KO, it does. I feel

bad,

> like I've done something to chase these people away. My friend is

pregnant,

> so I guess that would change things, and I'm working hard on my end

to plan

> her surprise baby shower. Now this friend can be sometimes selfish

and

> since I am rarely selfish, it is frustrating to me - and pregnancy

seems to

> have brought it more. Maybe she is sensing that in me and doesn't

want to

> be around me? I don't know, but I really hate feeling abandoned.

Right now

> I feel abandoned and that it is all my fault - I said the wrong

thing, did

> the wrong thing... I don't know.... but I do know it feels awful.

>

Shari-

Funny you would post about a " sometimes " selfish pregnant friend. I

have a friend who had twins almost two years ago. While she was

pregnant, I helped her with everything from cleaning her closets,

house, etc. and I also gave her a baby shower. When the twins were

born, I visited her in the hospital several times on my lunch hour

(she had an extended stay because she had a c-section and

complications). When she came home, I continued to help as much as I

could. But then one Saturday, after listening to her complain for

HOURS while cleaning her house and I mean FOUR hours of non-stop

complaining, I left her house completely and totally exhausted

wondering what exactly I was getting out of this friendship. She

didn't want to solve any problems, she just wanted to complain. She

didn't want to step up and be responsible for the children SHE chose

to have and figure out how to make it work, she expected her friends

and family to indefinitely continue a high level of support because

she had twins. I totally get that twins aren't easy. But it's not

easy having two kids consecutively either. When my oldest was three

years old and my youngest was three months old, I moved to Germany.

I didn't have a friend there until I made one. Not a single family

member for support save my husband. It never occurred to me to spend

much time feeling sorry for myself. I was too busy with my children

and trying to learn another language to spend time on a pity party!

So I made a decision to step back my support of my friend. I have a

family of my own and I work full time. My " friend " apparently felt I

hadn't done enough in the way of support. I felt bad at first and

actually quite angry. But then I realized I had set myself up for

this. I am co-dependent by nature. I have a knack for finding needy

people. I am not unwilling to have a friendship with her, but I

won't be her slave either.

That situation made me take a look at my friendships in general and

ask myself which relationships were out of balance. I have some

great friends who would drop everything on a dime if I needed help.

But then I had some of those who might better be described as needy

leeches. Suffice to say, I spend much less time with the leeches

now.

It does feel lousy when you feel like a relationship/friendship is

not going well and as KO's, it's easy for us to feel abandoned. I

would just tell you to examine the relationship carefully. Your

friend I am sure, is going through a lot just being pregnant. But as

you describe her as being sometimes selfish, I would almost guess

whatever happened has absolutely nothing to do with you.

take care-

[Guest guest]

>

> I AM angry.

> This woman was my friend. Sometimes she was inconsiderate and a

total PITA,

> but I had learned to deal with it and not absorb it. I felt close

enough to

> her to confide in her about my dad and my depression.... and she

supported

> me for the first time I told my dad NO. This was over the summer!!

> ...So it isn't me. And I am trying. and I am certainly doing

enough (I'm

> planning her surprise shower!)

>

> Blaming myself first and asking questions later is getting kinda

old.

>

Shari Lynn-

Your comment " Sometimes she was inconsiderate and a total PITA, but I

had learned to deal with it and not absorb it " just stuck out to me.

It sounds like what we all try to do with our BPD parents. I can

understand your frustration...she was someone you confided in and

there are few people who " get " what this whole BPD thing is about.

It's disappointing to think we've found someone we can confide in

only to discover their support was fleeting. All I can say is that I

was at the same place you were...angry and tired of giving without

receiving anything in return. It isn't surprising KO's find

themselves in this position...it's what we learned from our parents.

Getting angry is a valid response to the situation. But don't beat

yourself up too much...it's a live and learn sort of situation.

take care-