Re: I feel guilty for lying, but I had to.

[Guest guest]

Oh, and I also forgot to mention that nada told my sis that I

probably didn't see her text messages because my husband deleted

them before I saw them.

She thinks my husband is the devil reincarnate. She has accused him

SEVERAL times of brainwashing me.

Thought that was an interesting tidbit.

~Sara Jo

>

> I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much

she

> loves me.

> She did the same thing at Christmas.

> I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> them.

> I feel awful about it.

> But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

justify

> that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> recieved them.

>

> Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

deserve

> her trust.

>

> Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

kids

> don't treat me the way they should! "

>

> She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> sent me.

> I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish

me

> a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

called

> me instead of texting me.

>

> I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she

found

> out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to

send

> her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> daughter I am.

>

> So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because she

> wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

>

> Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live life

> on MY TERMS now.

>

> But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> suffering because of my need to protect herself.

>

> What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have

had

> an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

>

> I am considering changing my phone number.

>

> I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

truth?

>

> Thanks,

> Sara Jo

>

[Guest guest]

Is it possible to have a relationship with your sister in which you

do not talk about your mother?

If the two of you can agree not to bring up who sent whom a text

message and who has called whom and who has not called whom back and

why (I'm exhausted just writing that!), then you will not have to

worry about lying to her.

I personally do not recommend lying. It shows that you are still

afraid. Telling the truth or saying that you do not want to discuss

something give you power.

What is going on here is called triangulation. The way to end it is

to say, " Thanks for your concern, Sis. I would rather you didn't ask

me about my contact with Mom or hers with me. In the future, let's

just talk about you and me, okay? "

>

> I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much she

> loves me.

> She did the same thing at Christmas.

> I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> them.

> I feel awful about it.

> But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to justify

> that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> recieved them.

>

> Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

deserve

> her trust.

>

> Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

kids

> don't treat me the way they should! "

>

> She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> sent me.

> I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish

me

> a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

called

> me instead of texting me.

>

> I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she found

> out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to send

> her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> daughter I am.

>

> So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because she

> wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

>

> Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live life

> on MY TERMS now.

>

> But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> suffering because of my need to protect herself.

>

> What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have

had

> an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

>

> I am considering changing my phone number.

>

> I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

truth?

>

> Thanks,

> Sara Jo

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I don't think that would go down too well.

I don't mind talking about mom, really. I just don't want to talk to

mom myself. Make sense?

You are right, lying is bad. And I'm not lying because I am afraid,

I'm lying because I'm EXHAUSTED. I am tired of constantly feeling

like I have to justify myself. No one makes me feel that way but me.

But at the same time, it just seemed so easy to say " I didn't get

any messages " .It was just EASIER that way.

But it would be outside of my character to tell my sis " I don't want

to talk about mom with you anymore " , and she will know something is

up. It would be strange because it isn't like me.

Maybe I should just come out and tell her the truth.

~Sara Jo.

> >

> > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

happy

> > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much

she

> > loves me.

> > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> > them.

> > I feel awful about it.

> > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

justify

> > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> > recieved them.

> >

> > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> deserve

> > her trust.

> >

> > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at.

NADA

> > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient)

and

> > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you

guys

> > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

> kids

> > don't treat me the way they should! "

> >

> > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages

she

> > sent me.

> > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to

wish

> me

> > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

> called

> > me instead of texting me.

> >

> > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she

found

> > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me

an

> > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to

send

> > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> > daughter I am.

> >

> > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because

she

> > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> >

> > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live

life

> > on MY TERMS now.

> >

> > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> >

> > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

would

> > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have

> had

> > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> >

> > I am considering changing my phone number.

> >

> > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

> truth?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Sara Jo

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So you are using your husband? That does not sound like a good idea.

Often, the non-BP parent " sacrifices " the children in order to keep

the BP's wrath away from him. You have just done the same thing to

your husband. You are (understandably) trying to avoid the wrath of

your mother and the rejection you fear from your sister by throwing

someone else under the bus. I don't think it matters that your

mother already hates him. You are helping make her case, and that is

not good for your relationship with your husband.

kt

> >

> > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much

> she

> > loves me.

> > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> > them.

> > I feel awful about it.

> > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> justify

> > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> > recieved them.

> >

> > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> deserve

> > her trust.

> >

> > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

> kids

> > don't treat me the way they should! "

> >

> > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> > sent me.

> > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish

> me

> > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

> called

> > me instead of texting me.

> >

> > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she

> found

> > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to

> send

> > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> > daughter I am.

> >

> > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because

she

> > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> >

> > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live

life

> > on MY TERMS now.

> >

> > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> >

> > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have

> had

> > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> >

> > I am considering changing my phone number.

> >

> > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

> truth?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Sara Jo

> >

>

[Guest guest]

NO, I am NOT using my husband.

I haven't said anything to anyone. I haven't spoken to my NADA in

MONTHS. My nada just told my sis " I bet jeremy deleted the messages

so sara wouldn't see them!!! " . NADA is always accusing my husband of

doing crazy things, like brainwashing me, etc.

I don't give her reason to think those things, she thinks them on

her own because he was a threat to her.

So no, I do not use my husband or anyone else to get through my

issues with NADA.

~Sara Jo

> > >

> > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

happy

> > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how

much

> > she

> > > loves me.

> > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my

sis

> > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

text

> > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never

got

> > > them.

> > > I feel awful about it.

> > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> > justify

> > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> > > recieved them.

> > >

> > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> > deserve

> > > her trust.

> > >

> > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was

so

> > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at.

NADA

> > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient)

and

> > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you

guys

> > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I

always

> > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this!

My

> > kids

> > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > >

> > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages

she

> > > sent me.

> > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to

wish

> > me

> > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

> > called

> > > me instead of texting me.

> > >

> > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she

> > found

> > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me

an

> > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to

> > send

> > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a

shitty

> > > daughter I am.

> > >

> > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because

> she

> > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > >

> > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live

> life

> > > on MY TERMS now.

> > >

> > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > >

> > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

would

> > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would

have

> > had

> > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> > >

> > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > >

> > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

> > truth?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Sara Jo

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

SaraJo, you don't have to justify yourself. You are right. But

obviously avoiding the truth has not worked for you yet so far. If

you don't want to feel pressed to justify yourself, I think you need

to set boundaries that tell people so.

You say stopping the triangulation " isn't like you. " Do you want to

continue behavior that hurts you, or do you want to change it? It is

entirely up to you. It sounds like you are incredibly worried about

what your sister thinks of you.

kt

- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " Sara Jo "

wrote:

>

> Well, I don't think that would go down too well.

>

> I don't mind talking about mom, really. I just don't want to talk

to

> mom myself. Make sense?

>

> You are right, lying is bad. And I'm not lying because I am

afraid,

> I'm lying because I'm EXHAUSTED. I am tired of constantly feeling

> like I have to justify myself. No one makes me feel that way but

me.

> But at the same time, it just seemed so easy to say " I didn't get

> any messages " .It was just EASIER that way.

>

> But it would be outside of my character to tell my sis " I don't

want

> to talk about mom with you anymore " , and she will know something is

> up. It would be strange because it isn't like me.

>

> Maybe I should just come out and tell her the truth.

>

> ~Sara Jo.

>

>

> > >

> > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

> happy

> > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much

> she

> > > loves me.

> > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my

sis

> > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

text

> > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> > > them.

> > > I feel awful about it.

> > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> justify

> > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> > > recieved them.

> > >

> > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> > deserve

> > > her trust.

> > >

> > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at.

> NADA

> > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient)

> and

> > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you

> guys

> > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I

always

> > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

> > kids

> > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > >

> > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages

> she

> > > sent me.

> > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to

> wish

> > me

> > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

> > called

> > > me instead of texting me.

> > >

> > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she

> found

> > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me

> an

> > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to

> send

> > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a

shitty

> > > daughter I am.

> > >

> > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because

> she

> > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > >

> > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live

> life

> > > on MY TERMS now.

> > >

> > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > >

> > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

> would

> > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would

have

> > had

> > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> > >

> > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > >

> > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

> > truth?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Sara Jo

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I apologize, I misread your message. I thought it said you had told

her that he deleted them, not that she came up with that idea.

Sorry, SaraJo!

kt

> > > >

> > > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

> happy

> > > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how

> much

> > > she

> > > > loves me.

> > > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my

> sis

> > > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

> text

> > > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never

> got

> > > > them.

> > > > I feel awful about it.

> > > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> > > justify

> > > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I

never

> > > > recieved them.

> > > >

> > > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> > > deserve

> > > > her trust.

> > > >

> > > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was

> so

> > > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA

was

> > > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at.

> NADA

> > > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient)

> and

> > > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she

started

> > > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you

> guys

> > > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I

> always

> > > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this!

> My

> > > kids

> > > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > > >

> > > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages

> she

> > > > sent me.

> > > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to

> wish

> > > me

> > > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

> > > called

> > > > me instead of texting me.

> > > >

> > > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she

> > > found

> > > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent

me

> an

> > > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me

to

> > > send

> > > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a

> shitty

> > > > daughter I am.

> > > >

> > > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's

because

> > she

> > > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > > >

> > > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live

> > life

> > > > on MY TERMS now.

> > > >

> > > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she

is

> > > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > > >

> > > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

> would

> > > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would

> have

> > > had

> > > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> > > >

> > > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > > >

> > > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

> > > truth?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Sara Jo

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Is what I'm doing really considered " triangulation " ?

The thing is, I am for once, avoiding conflict and avoiding BS.

In the past, I answered to my NADA's every beck and call.

Now I am not.

And you know what? MAybe I shouldn't feel guilty lying to my sister.

She wouldn't think twice about lying to me.

I guess I'm just feeling weird about it because I've never done

something like this before.

Kt, you said " Do you want to

> continue behavior that hurts you, or do you want to change it? " .

I'm not doing anything that is hurting me. I did something

completely differnt. I lied to save myself a little grief. So maybe

I felt a tinge of guilt when I did it.

I guess no matter how I say it, it was wrong. Because now I am

catching myself justifying myself here on this board.

Tell you all what though. I'm not telling the truth about it. But I

will think twice before I do it again. And hopefully my NADA will

get the hint and stop sending me text messages.

You know, I told my father, who is DEAF, that texting is not an

acceptable way to communicate with me and told him that if he wants

he can email me, call me via ttdy, or send me a letter.

Why should it be different with NADA? If she really wanted to tell

me she loves me after not speaking to me for over a year, she can do

better than a text message, I think. What do you all think?

~Sara Jo

> > > >

> > > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

> > happy

> > > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how

much

> > she

> > > > loves me.

> > > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my

> sis

> > > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

> text

> > > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never

got

> > > > them.

> > > > I feel awful about it.

> > > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> > justify

> > > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I

never

> > > > recieved them.

> > > >

> > > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> > > deserve

> > > > her trust.

> > > >

> > > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was

so

> > > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA

was

> > > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at.

> > NADA

> > > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis

patient)

> > and

> > > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she

started

> > > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you

> > guys

> > > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I

> always

> > > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this!

My

> > > kids

> > > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > > >

> > > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text

messages

> > she

> > > > sent me.

> > > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to

> > wish

> > > me

> > > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would

have

> > > called

> > > > me instead of texting me.

> > > >

> > > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when

she

> > found

> > > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent

me

> > an

> > > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me

to

> > send

> > > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a

> shitty

> > > > daughter I am.

> > > >

> > > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's

because

> > she

> > > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > > >

> > > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I

live

> > life

> > > > on MY TERMS now.

> > > >

> > > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she

is

> > > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > > >

> > > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

> > would

> > > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would

> have

> > > had

> > > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> > > >

> > > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > > >

> > > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis

the

> > > truth?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Sara Jo

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

SaraJo, I can so understand you. I've often been in the same

situation, and sometimes still am. It is like you say in the subject

of this thread: you feel guilty for lying, but you had to. YOU HAD

TO, to protect yourself. I am a person who carries honesty as a high

value, and everybody who knows me, knows that. I have been however

forced, mainly in the past, to lie to nada. Because she does not act

in ways that would permit another behavior. Because I was sometimes

exhausted. Because I really really wanted to go on that date and she

really really would not give me permission. Because also now, it is

sometimes just easier to tell her that I did not hear a phone call,

instead of saying that I heard it and hesitated whether or not to

take the call; or I tell her that I forgot my phone in the office

where in reality I just want to have a nada-less evening, for

whatever reason. Because I am exhausted from dealing with her,

because I have a special evening planned with my husband, because

we're going out with friends and I just want to have fun without

disturbances, without wailing on the phone. Does it make me a bad

person? I don't think so. It certainly makes me a nicer and sunnier

person to the people I am with. Since our nada's had such different

moral standards from ours while we were growing up, I have stopped to

feel all too guilty about this sort of lies to her. I would not do it

to anyone else, and my husband f.ex. knows this; but sometimes, yes,

I do ly to my mother. When I am in an especially bad mood, I

sarcastically think: " well you taught me to lie. You taught me not to

tell anyone about what was going on in the house. You taught me to

have pretextts without flinching: o I bumped into the door, oh yes, I

bruise easily; o I guess the bell must not have worked yesterday. So

this is what you get. You (nada) beat the crap out of me when a lie

was discovered but at the same time you taught us this, under the

pretext of " discretion " . How honest is that? "

It is a protection. And maybe indeed a sign that we are still somehow

afraid, or that she can still get at us. But this is normal,

considering our experiences and a lifetime of abuse. Maybe this will

pass; I don't know; but for now, I would say to myself, and would

like to say to you: don't fret about it... You are so strong, in all

your mails I feel this strength and the immense progress you're

making, don't let FOG gnaw at you too much...

To my sister I would not lie, at worst play the ignorant or forgetful

one...

I hope this helped, and I hope that you don't feel guilt out of

proportion -- your nada has more to feel guilty about...

Katrina

> > > > >

> > > > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

> > > happy

> > > > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how

> much

> > > she

> > > > > loves me.

> > > > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when

my

> > sis

> > > > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

> > text

> > > > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never

> got

> > > > > them.

> > > > > I feel awful about it.

> > > > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to

those

> > > > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> > > justify

> > > > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I

> never

> > > > > recieved them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I

don't

> > > > deserve

> > > > > her trust.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call

was

> so

> > > > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA

> was

> > > > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed

at.

> > > NADA

> > > > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis

> patient)

> > > and

> > > > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she

> started

> > > > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when

you

> > > guys

> > > > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I

> > always

> > > > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than

this!

> My

> > > > kids

> > > > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > > > >

> > > > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text

> messages

> > > she

> > > > > sent me.

> > > > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted

to

> > > wish

> > > > me

> > > > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would

> have

> > > > called

> > > > > me instead of texting me.

> > > > >

> > > > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when

> she

> > > found

> > > > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent

> me

> > > an

> > > > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me

> to

> > > send

> > > > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a

> > shitty

> > > > > daughter I am.

> > > > >

> > > > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's

> because

> > > she

> > > > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I

> live

> > > life

> > > > > on MY TERMS now.

> > > > >

> > > > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she

> is

> > > > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > > > >

> > > > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

> > > would

> > > > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would

> > have

> > > > had

> > > > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned

text.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > > > >

> > > > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis

> the

> > > > truth?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Sara Jo

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Katrina. I really appreciate your words. Thank you for

understanding.

~Sara Jo

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling

me

> > > > happy

> > > > > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and

how

> > much

> > > > she

> > > > > > loves me.

> > > > > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > > > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even

when

> my

> > > sis

> > > > > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent

you a

> > > text

> > > > > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I

never

> > got

> > > > > > them.

> > > > > > I feel awful about it.

> > > > > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to

> those

> > > > > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having

to

> > > > justify

> > > > > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I

> > never

> > > > > > recieved them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I

> don't

> > > > > deserve

> > > > > > her trust.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call

> was

> > so

> > > > > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said

NADA

> > was

> > > > > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed

> at.

> > > > NADA

> > > > > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis

> > patient)

> > > > and

> > > > > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she

> > started

> > > > > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when

> you

> > > > guys

> > > > > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed!

I

> > > always

> > > > > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than

> this!

> > My

> > > > > kids

> > > > > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text

> > messages

> > > > she

> > > > > > sent me.

> > > > > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA

wanted

> to

> > > > wish

> > > > > me

> > > > > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would

> > have

> > > > > called

> > > > > > me instead of texting me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and

when

> > she

> > > > found

> > > > > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she

sent

> > me

> > > > an

> > > > > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want

me

> > to

> > > > send

> > > > > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what

a

> > > shitty

> > > > > > daughter I am.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's

> > because

> > > > she

> > > > > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I

> > live

> > > > life

> > > > > > on MY TERMS now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like

she

> > is

> > > > > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my

bday

> > > > would

> > > > > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I

would

> > > have

> > > > > had

> > > > > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned

> text.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell

sis

> > the

> > > > > truth?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > Sara Jo

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sara Jo,

We all must do what works for us- in order for us to not only

survive these crazy situations- but eventually thrive and grow.

So- what is going to work best for you- and in there lies your

answer. As for your sister- you loyalty has to be to you and you only.

For now what works for me, may not work for anyone else- but the

only person I need to justify that to is- me.

I so know this isn't easy- but neither was the pain and the

heartache, that brought you to this point in your life.

Listen to your gut instinct- and follow it. That is my new

radar- because it never lets me down.

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " Sara Jo "

wrote:

>

> I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much she

> loves me.

> She did the same thing at Christmas.

> I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> them.

> I feel awful about it.

> But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to justify

> that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> recieved them.

>

> Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

deserve

> her trust.

>

> Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

kids

> don't treat me the way they should! "

>

> She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> sent me.

> I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish

me

> a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

called

> me instead of texting me.

>

> I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she found

> out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to send

> her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> daughter I am.

>

> So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because she

> wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

>

> Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live life

> on MY TERMS now.

>

> But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> suffering because of my need to protect herself.

>

> What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have

had

> an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

>

> I am considering changing my phone number.

>

> I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

truth?

>

> Thanks,

> Sara Jo

>

[Guest guest]

Sara Jo,

In many ways your situation seems a lot like mine, and I wish you all the best

of luck in

dealing with everything with which you deal. Here's my two cents, and of course

take it or

leave it.

You mention that you used to be at your nada's beck and call--as did I. I think

it is a

great step that you are breaking that cycle and not responding to everything

that she

sends or requests. I think it is ok to lie to your sister if you feel like you

need to protect

yourself.

And, I also think that when you feel ready after you've had some time to get

stronger and

stronger and more and more sure of yourself it might be an idea to tell your own

truth to

sister. Whether that is telling her you don't want to discuss the contact

between you and

mom, or whether that is tell sister more of your truth--about how you were

treated by

nada and how you need your own boundaries, your own space, and your own

personhood.

The thing that I think is one of the most important things on this journey is

our own

validation of our self. The truth is that you are not required or expected to

hurt yourself

to help others. That means that if you don't want to answer a text or the phone

or

whatever, you don't have to. It is up to you. You are doing what is best for

you. That is

healthy. It is beautiful. You can own that--you don't have to explain or

justify it to

anyone. I guess what I am trying to say is that as you get even stronger (and

you've

already shown a tremendous amount of strength) you might find yourself being

even more

clear with sister and nada. You might find yourself telling people your

perspective.

If sister gets angry or whatever--that is her deal. You haven't done anything

to make her

angry. Her anger is her issue. Her response to the truth is her issue. You

are in control of

you and she is in control of her.

My sister and I are close, and when things got bad between my nada and me I

worried

about my relationship with sister. I knew she was getting an earful from nada,

and I

wanted to tell her my " side. " I also knew she wanted to know what was up. In

the end,

though, I thought it was more healthy for me if I didn't include sister in on

any of it. I

thought it would damage our relationship. So I ended up telling her that my

self and my

marriage are my top priorities and that I would do what I needed to do to

protect those.

Then I told her that I didn't want to discuss anything about my relationship

with mom with

her. I thought she would be upset, but she took it really well. I think we

have a better

relationship becuase of it. It seems healthy to me, and I like that. Anyway, I

say all that

just to say that maybe it will go better than you expect with sister.

Keep up the good work, Sara Jo. It seems from your post that you are getting so

strong.

You aren't at your nadas beck and call anymore. That feels good! And, you are

so clear in

who you are. That's hard work! You are doing it; you are making it!

> >

> > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much she

> > loves me.

> > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> > them.

> > I feel awful about it.

> > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to justify

> > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> > recieved them.

> >

> > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> deserve

> > her trust.

> >

> > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

> kids

> > don't treat me the way they should! "

> >

> > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> > sent me.

> > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish

> me

> > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

> called

> > me instead of texting me.

> >

> > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she found

> > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to send

> > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> > daughter I am.

> >

> > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because she

> > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> >

> > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live life

> > on MY TERMS now.

> >

> > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> >

> > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have

> had

> > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> >

> > I am considering changing my phone number.

> >

> > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

> truth?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Sara Jo

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> So you are using your husband? That does not sound like a good idea.

>

> Often, the non-BP parent " sacrifices " the children in order to keep

> the BP's wrath away from him. You have just done the same thing to

> your husband. You are (understandably) trying to avoid the wrath of

> your mother and the rejection you fear from your sister by throwing

> someone else under the bus. I don't think it matters that your

> mother already hates him. You are helping make her case, and that is

> not good for your relationship with your husband.

>

>

> kt

>

My husband would do anything and everything to keep nada away from

me,...WITH my full and complete agreement. I think acusing her of

throwing her husband under the bus is harsh.

[Guest guest]

Sara Jo,

I think, under the circumstances, you did the right thing. I don't

advocate lying but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils. For the

longest time, my younger sister was in a position where I had to lie

to protect her,...and I did. In the end it saved her a boatload of

heartache and playing the role of human wishbone. I would never wish

what nada did to me on her,...ever. And I'd lie to protect her. I'd

do it all again without reservation. No question.

Today my sister and I are closer than ever because she we have both

walked the road out of Oz. She has come to grips with all this

insanity and instead of battling each other we are a united front. I

refuse to let nada harm my sister or her family and she feels the

same way about me and mine. And our husbands willingly intercede to

protect ALL of us.

Let go of the guilt, dear one,...right or wrong, you did what you

thought was best and out of love for your sister.

Mercy

>

> I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much she

> loves me.

> She did the same thing at Christmas.

> I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> them.

> I feel awful about it.

[Guest guest]

The last thing I will say on the subject is that everyone has a right

to his own opinion. I have apologized for my mis-reading of one of

SJ's posts.

It is clear that more than one of you disagrees with me. That is

fine. But I will continue to say what I think, and not just what

someone wants to hear.

> >

> > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much

she

> > loves me.

> > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> > them.

> > I feel awful about it.

>

[Guest guest]

I think this is a great point! It IS outside of your character to

step away from the drama and say you're not playing anymore. It is

outside of the character of all of us, as that is how our nadas raised us.

Think of it this way: What you've been doing hasn't been working.

Maybe it's time to stretch yourself a bit, do something out of

character. Change the behavior, change the results. This is

something we all need to consider for ourselves.

For instance, I used to cower when my mother got upset, and do

whatever it took to talk her down (even when I was 36!!!) Now I just

walk away.

>

> Well, I don't think that would go down too well.

>

> I don't mind talking about mom, really. I just don't want to talk to

> mom myself. Make sense?

>

> You are right, lying is bad. And I'm not lying because I am afraid,

> I'm lying because I'm EXHAUSTED. I am tired of constantly feeling

> like I have to justify myself. No one makes me feel that way but me.

> But at the same time, it just seemed so easy to say " I didn't get

> any messages " .It was just EASIER that way.

>

> But it would be outside of my character to tell my sis " I don't want

> to talk about mom with you anymore " , and she will know something is

> up. It would be strange because it isn't like me.

>

> Maybe I should just come out and tell her the truth.

>

> ~Sara Jo.

>

[Guest guest]

KT,

No worries, thanks for your apology, I wasn't clear when I was

writing about my husband. No hard feelings from me.

your advice and insight is ALWAYS appreciated. And I'm not just

looking for people to tell me what I want to hear. I want to hear

what others think and what has worked for them.

I look forward to your posts and responses in the future.

Thanks, Sara Jo

> > >

> > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

happy

> > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how

much

> she

> > > loves me.

> > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my

sis

> > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

text

> > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never

got

> > > them.

> > > I feel awful about it.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---

Sara Jo,

I think your mom puts you in a no-win situation with her mixed messages. There

is no

winning. You might TRY explaining triangulation to your sister. And just that

if you're not

communicating with mom directly, you don't intend to communicate indirectly

either. She

may not understand it, as it doesn't sound like sis has embarked on the journey

of

understanding BP and trying to figure her way out of it (or thru it or

whatever). I think

that, and please don't take this wrong, but given your young age, you are doing

amazingly

well. I know that when I was your age, I would never have been able to deal

with nada

without " taking the bait " .

Unfortunately, this is a no-win situation. Your nada will never be satisfied,

and will also

change the rules and give mixed messages. Try to focus on yourself and your new

life.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " ktelewis " wrote:

>

> SaraJo, you don't have to justify yourself. You are right. But

> obviously avoiding the truth has not worked for you yet so far. If

> you don't want to feel pressed to justify yourself, I think you need

> to set boundaries that tell people so.

>

> You say stopping the triangulation " isn't like you. " Do you want to

> continue behavior that hurts you, or do you want to change it? It is

> entirely up to you. It sounds like you are incredibly worried about

> what your sister thinks of you.

>

> kt

> - In WTOAdultChildren1 , " Sara Jo " <SaraJo@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Well, I don't think that would go down too well.

> >

> > I don't mind talking about mom, really. I just don't want to talk

> to

> > mom myself. Make sense?

> >

> > You are right, lying is bad. And I'm not lying because I am

> afraid,

> > I'm lying because I'm EXHAUSTED. I am tired of constantly feeling

> > like I have to justify myself. No one makes me feel that way but

> me.

> > But at the same time, it just seemed so easy to say " I didn't get

> > any messages " .It was just EASIER that way.

> >

> > But it would be outside of my character to tell my sis " I don't

> want

> > to talk about mom with you anymore " , and she will know something is

> > up. It would be strange because it isn't like me.

> >

> > Maybe I should just come out and tell her the truth.

> >

> > ~Sara Jo.

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

> > happy

> > > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much

> > she

> > > > loves me.

> > > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my

> sis

> > > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

> text

> > > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> > > > them.

> > > > I feel awful about it.

> > > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> > > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> > justify

> > > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> > > > recieved them.

> > > >

> > > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

> > > deserve

> > > > her trust.

> > > >

> > > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> > > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> > > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at.

> > NADA

> > > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient)

> > and

> > > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> > > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you

> > guys

> > > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I

> always

> > > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

> > > kids

> > > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > > >

> > > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages

> > she

> > > > sent me.

> > > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to

> > wish

> > > me

> > > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

> > > called

> > > > me instead of texting me.

> > > >

> > > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she

> > found

> > > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me

> > an

> > > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to

> > send

> > > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a

> shitty

> > > > daughter I am.

> > > >

> > > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because

> > she

> > > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > > >

> > > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live

> > life

> > > > on MY TERMS now.

> > > >

> > > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> > > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > > >

> > > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

> > would

> > > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would

> have

> > > had

> > > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

> > > >

> > > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > > >

> > > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

> > > truth?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Sara Jo

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara Jo,

Me personally, I don't feel the least bit guilty about lying to my

nada to save both her and myself a lot of grief over nothing. My nada

would get completely bent out of shape if I told her, " I'm coming for

a visit, but I'm spending 3 days just with my Sister. Then I'm coming

to see you for 3 days. " Nada would have gone ballistic, and my three

days with her would have been pure hell.

So I tell nada only, " I'm coming to see you for 3 days. " And she is

none the wiser. Sister and I cooked that up so we could have some

peace. My Sister and I are a team: we both recognize that we were

both abused badly as kids, and are not going to tolerate nada's

continual emotional abuse any more.

And, me personally, I say that you and your husband are a team. You

are " one " , united, and you are there to help each other. Its not

about " using " him, its about teamwork with your spouse so that your

nada can't work any wedge between you and pit you against each other.

You are there to protect him, and he is there to protect you. If you

need his help to combat your nada, let him know. He is there for you,

I'm sure. By the same token, if your nada is hurting your husband by

trying to smear him, telling lies about him, you need to do the

protecting. *You* must stand up to your nada and give her the verbal

equivalent of a body slam: " You have crossed the line, mother. You

have said horrible, untrue things about my husband to other people,

and I will not stand for that. You are forbidden to contact me or my

family until you apologize to my husband in front of the people you

have told the lies to. Is that clear? I will not tolerate your

disrespect to my husband or me. "

I'm currently in somewhat of the same dilemma. My nada has been

telling her sister, my Auntie the Younger, about my (now deceased)

dad. Nada claims he beat her, and that is something my dad never did

the whole time I lived at home, and all the decades after I left home

I never, ever saw any bruises. I never saw dad do anything but leave

the house over their endless arguments. Dad never hit Sister or me,

either. I am seething with anger that nada would falsely accuse dad,

who now can't defend himself, but if I confront nada about it I would

be betraying Auntie the Younger's confidence. I have to wait and

think what would be the best thing to do.

Go for that " body-slam " , I think it will have good results.

-Annie

>

> I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much she

> loves me.

> She did the same thing at Christmas.

> I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> them.

> I feel awful about it.

> But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to justify

> that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> recieved them.

>

> Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't deserve

> her trust.

>

> Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My kids

> don't treat me the way they should! "

>

> She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> sent me.

> I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish me

> a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have called

> me instead of texting me.

>

> I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she found

> out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to send

> her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> daughter I am.

>

> So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because she

> wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

>

> Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live life

> on MY TERMS now.

>

> But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> suffering because of my need to protect herself.

>

> What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have had

> an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

>

> I am considering changing my phone number.

>

> I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the truth?

>

> Thanks,

> Sara Jo

>

[Guest guest]

Let technology (and all it's failures) be your friend here.

1) You were 100% right to 'smell a trap.'

2) It's OK to not let it all out in the open sometimes.

3) My therapist (when I was toying with this very same issue in July)

said, " I don't normally advocate lying to people... HOWEVER... in

this case, with your " Nada " , only harm can come from telling her the

truth... she'll weaponize it down the road. " It was at that point

that I realized the truth with Nada is always going to be on a 'case

by case' basis. I think this applies here too.

4) The history of your relationship with your sister has been spotty

lately. Don't feel that you have to tell HER the truth when she can

a) weaponize it or be caught in the middle. What Sis doesn't know

can't hurt YOU!

Lynnette

>

> I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much she

> loves me.

> She did the same thing at Christmas.

> I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> them.

> I feel awful about it.

> But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to justify

> that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> recieved them.

>

> Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't

deserve

> her trust.

>

> Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My

kids

> don't treat me the way they should! "

>

> She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> sent me.

> I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish

me

> a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have

called

> me instead of texting me.

>

> I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she found

> out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to send

> her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> daughter I am.

>

> So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because she

> wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

>

> Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live life

> on MY TERMS now.

>

> But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> suffering because of my need to protect herself.

>

> What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have

had

> an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

>

> I am considering changing my phone number.

>

> I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the

truth?

>

> Thanks,

> Sara Jo

>

[Guest guest]

SaraJo,

Most nadas are master triangulators. Especially when you reduce or

cut off contact, then they talk to others in the family about the

situation and try to keep the lines of communication open through the

family, and keep you hooked into their drama through these third

parties. Then you get the family members telling you, " Well, I'm not

sure what's going on with you and [nada], and I've only heard her

end, of course, but I hope you all can work things out and forgive

one another. She sure is upset that you're not getting along. "

[This after she popped into my little one's preschool and went on a

tirade, tried to cause problems for me at work, tried to interfere

with my adoption, and wrote a nasty gram to my boyfriend about how

terrible I am. Ugh.]

I understand what you're saying about feeling uncomfortable about

telling sis you'd rather not talk about nada. There are three cousins

I've wanted to call and catch up with for a few weeks, but I haven't

because I don't know how (or I'm not ready) to deliver that simple

message that I don't want to talk about grandnada, and I expect there

will be news from grandnada on their ends. Us grandkids (esp. one

cousin, who's like a sis to my only child self) have always talked

about her - she and her dramas are supposed to the be center of our

universes, after all (rolling eyes).

I don't know that there is good in telling other family what's going

on - those who are so conditioned to be loyal to nada/fada will no

doubt just pass the message along to her that you think she's

mentally ill, and we all know what will happen from there in most

cases. I did talk to my mom about my suspicion that her mom has BPD

(and passed along copies of UBM and SWOE), because despite all of her

issues, my mom has managed to keep my confidences and not share them

with grandma. There is a risk that she'll get mad at her mom and

come out with, " You know what, [gethappy]'s right, you clearly do

have borderline personality disorder. " But I guess that was a risk I

was willing to take.

My T says that part of becoming an individuated person is not feeling

like you have to explain or justify your adult decisions to your

family members, and not perpetuating these triangulated

relationships. The individuated response would be to tell other

family, " Our relationship is important to me. I love you too much to

put you in the position of feeling like you have to choose sides

between [nada] and I, or like you have to be a messenger or go-

between here. So I think it would be better if we agree that we

won't talk about [nada]. "

I think my T is right, that most family members would feel really

relieved after hearing that message. But a month or two after he

proposed that option, it's still not something I've done. Then

again, my family relationships have been this way for 35 years - I've

got a lot to unlearn, and it's not going to happen overnight, or even

in the space of six to eight months.

- gethappy

> > > > >

> > > > > I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me

> > > happy

> > > > > birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how

> much

> > > she

> > > > > loves me.

> > > > > She did the same thing at Christmas.

> > > > > I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when

my

> > sis

> > > > > asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a

> > text

> > > > > message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never

> got

> > > > > them.

> > > > > I feel awful about it.

> > > > > But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to

those

> > > > > messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to

> > > justify

> > > > > that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I

> never

> > > > > recieved them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I

don't

> > > > deserve

> > > > > her trust.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call

was

> so

> > > > > weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA

> was

> > > > > hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed

at.

> > > NADA

> > > > > was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis

> patient)

> > > and

> > > > > laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she

> started

> > > > > crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when

you

> > > guys

> > > > > were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I

> > always

> > > > > bought you things! And I should be treated better than

this!

> My

> > > > kids

> > > > > don't treat me the way they should! "

> > > > >

> > > > > She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text

> messages

> > > she

> > > > > sent me.

> > > > > I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted

to

> > > wish

> > > > me

> > > > > a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would

> have

> > > > called

> > > > > me instead of texting me.

> > > > >

> > > > > I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when

> she

> > > found

> > > > > out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent

> me

> > > an

> > > > > evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me

> to

> > > send

> > > > > her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a

> > shitty

> > > > > daughter I am.

> > > > >

> > > > > So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's

> because

> > > she

> > > > > wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I

> live

> > > life

> > > > > on MY TERMS now.

> > > > >

> > > > > But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she

> is

> > > > > suffering because of my need to protect herself.

> > > > >

> > > > > What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday

> > > would

> > > > > have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would

> > have

> > > > had

> > > > > an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned

text.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am considering changing my phone number.

> > > > >

> > > > > I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis

> the

> > > > truth?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Sara Jo

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

To me lying feels very strange, and even when I have to lie in situations such

as yours I am extremely conscious.

 

I think the fear is that we will become liars which of course we don't want..

 

But the reality is that as adults we are enough mature to differentiate when it

is and isn't right to lie. You will get used to exercising digression.

 

If I were you I would lie my way out of all the drama. You will still remain an

honest person in all other ares of life.

 

Saul

Subject: Re: I feel guilty for lying, but I had to.

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 1:15 PM

I think this is a great point! It IS outside of your character to

step away from the drama and say you're not playing anymore. It is

outside of the character of all of us, as that is how our nadas raised us.

Think of it this way: What you've been doing hasn't been working.

Maybe it's time to stretch yourself a bit, do something out of

character. Change the behavior, change the results. This is

something we all need to consider for ourselves.

For instance, I used to cower when my mother got upset, and do

whatever it took to talk her down (even when I was 36!!!) Now I just

walk away.

>

> Well, I don't think that would go down too well.

>

> I don't mind talking about mom, really. I just don't want to talk to

> mom myself. Make sense?

>

> You are right, lying is bad. And I'm not lying because I am afraid,

> I'm lying because I'm EXHAUSTED. I am tired of constantly feeling

> like I have to justify myself. No one makes me feel that way but me.

> But at the same time, it just seemed so easy to say " I didn't get

> any messages " .It was just EASIER that way.

>

> But it would be outside of my character to tell my sis " I don't want

> to talk about mom with you anymore " , and she will know something is

> up. It would be strange because it isn't like me.

>

> Maybe I should just come out and tell her the truth.

>

> ~Sara Jo.

>

[Guest guest]

I can understand the guilt for lying to your sister and I also

understand why you did it. Of course honesty is the best policy but

that's hard if you are not ready to start a sh*t storm. I say in the

future when you get asked something that you dont want to answer you

can say, " Why do you ask? " Let the other person squirm to answer you

and then you can decide if you want to answer or not. If you don't

then say " I don't want to talk about that " and leave it at that. I

think you are right on the money to question why your nada would text

you after a year of NC, it's just shows that she has not changed AT

ALL. You can see right through it, maybe your sister can't. I think

that you did the right thing not falling for the trap.

>

> I recieved a text message yesterday from my NADA telling me happy

> birthday and she hopes that I have a BEAUTIFUL day and how much she

> loves me.

> She did the same thing at Christmas.

> I pretended that I never recieved the messages. Even when my sis

> asked me about them. She would say " mom said she sent you a text

> message... " and I lied both times and told her that I never got

> them.

> I feel awful about it.

> But I knew to protect myself I didn't need to reply to those

> messages. They were traps. And I didn't feel like having to justify

> that to anyone, not even my sister, so I lied and said I never

> recieved them.

>

> Is this ok? My sister trusts me, and now I feel like I don't deserve

> her trust.

>

> Nada called my sis last night. Apparently the phone call was so

> weird that my sis called me to tell me about it. Said NADA was

> hysterical. Laughing at things that shouldn't be laughed at. NADA

> was laughing about her illnesses (she is a cirrhosis patient) and

> laughing about other weird stuff. Then my sis said she started

> crying. NADA said stuff like " I gave you everything when you guys

> were kids! I gave you everything you wanted and needed! I always

> bought you things! And I should be treated better than this! My kids

> don't treat me the way they should! "

>

> She was just going nuts. And she brought up the text messages she

> sent me.

> I just told sis that I never got them, and if NADA wanted to wish me

> a merry Christmas and a happy birthday so bad, she would have called

> me instead of texting me.

>

> I tried to contact mom a little before christmas and when she found

> out that I was trying to find her mailing address, she sent me an

> evil email filled with hatred about how she doesn't want me to send

> her ANYTHING in the mail, and went on and on about what a shitty

> daughter I am.

>

> So why would I welcome a text message after that? It's because she

> wants contact with me on HER terms and not mine.

>

> Well, i put up with HER TERMS for 23 years of my life. I live life

> on MY TERMS now.

>

> But I still feel bad about lying to my sis. I feel like she is

> suffering because of my need to protect herself.

>

> What else was I supposed to do? Did NADA think that my bday would

> have been better only if I heard from her? In fact, I would have had

> an even BETTER day if I didn't have to see that damned text.

>

> I am considering changing my phone number.

>

> I need some advice or support here. DO I need to tell sis the truth?

>

> Thanks,

> Sara Jo

>