Re: I married my BPD mother

[Guest guest]

The rescuer's role is part of the drama cycle I've been learning

about this past year through therapy along w/dh. When we recognize

drama, we do a better job of not letting it escelate and can get a

better grasp on the situation so we don't burn each other. Granted

neither of us are BPs, but it helps deal w/dramatic households and

families when we are around them.

In drama charts, there's the triangulation of the bp world w/the

perpetrator, victim and rescuer roles. The bp often takes the role of

the perpetrator and justifies it by the former victim role and

sometimes plays the rescuer (which is not really someone I want

rescuing me, thank you. Leave me in the burning building!).

I first read about it in " Betrayal Bonds " but working w/our former

therapist really helped dh and I get ahold of how we escelate drama

inside our marriage and not much good comes from those situations.

Best wishes to you,

K

>

> My mom is an undiagnosed BPD. She has all the signs since as long

as I

> can remember. I have a twin brother which made splitting so much

> easier for her. I came out on the always bad end. Because of this I

> have a severe lack of self esteem. Yet, after moving far away,

managed

> to find myself. I went to therapy and was put on Paxil for

depression.

> I also saw my own flaws and worked to correct them. A work in

> progress, mind you. But aren't we all?

>

> The problem came in 2002 when I met this cute British girl at work.

> She was amazing to me at first, although there were signs that would

> flare up later.

>

> I noticed she had cuts on her arm. Several, and many of them deep. I

> asked what happened and she replied she was a rather dramatic

> teenager. I brushed it off as something I didn't quite understand,

but

> she seemed fine now.

>

> Then it happened. We got married. She got her green card and things

> soured fast. She would get angry if I was happy. Wouldn't joke

around

> like she used to. She bit me and drew blood on several occasions.

> Treated me as if I were the biggest jerk in the world when I had

done

> nothing. I found myself apologizing when SHE would act out.

>

> Our relationship seemed like I was there to be her punching bag. The

> purpose I seemed to serve was to fulfill her sick need to abuse

> someone close to her.

>

> We divorced two years ago. I have moved on and have several great

> friends although I am afraid to date. I have a serious fear of

> intimacy now and don't trust females in my life to know me in any

> significant way. Damage I need to get back into therapy to deal

with.

>

> Because of economic hardship, I moved back to my old home town

where I

> will be living in a family owned home. Renovations delay my moving

in

> and in the mean time, I stay at my parents home. It is embarrassing

> and awkward, but it has afforded me the luxury of seeing my past

> through the eyes of an adult male instead of a confused, terrorized

> little boy on the wrong end of a split.

>

> My mother behaves so bad, like a spoiled child, that my dad is at

the

> end of his rope. I can feel the tension between them. This has

> apparently been brewing for years –35 years.

>

> The problem I have is that I want to rescue my mother. I want her to

> get into therapy before she blows this marriage. But I know she will

> not. I am afraid of the storm that is coming. And it is coming. My

> father is done. I can see it in his face and hear it in his voice.

My

> mother is pathetic in her daily attempts to make interesting

> conversation with him as he ignores her and watches television

during

> meals, still stewing from the ball busting he's taken the night

before.

>

> I need to hold my tongue. I need to deal with this in another way.

And

> I hope that this message board will help me by sharing with you

all. I

> need to know I'm not alone in this, that my pain is real and that

> there are people who 'get me.' Are you out there? I'm ready to

share,

> ready to listen and most of all ready to participate in claiming my

> life back and helping others to do the same.

>

> Thanks for the opportunity to share.

>

> Scooter

>

[Guest guest]

I think bp might be genetic and the luck of the draw as you stated ,

but I also think as a parent there are certain things I can do w/my

own kids to help them out more incase they are genetically wired for

this. I do know they have mild heavy metal metabolism disorders and

that makes for learning disabilities as well as ADD and ADHD (when

the pupils are more typically dialated, there is something going on

in the brain where the person is not getting enough of something

biologically that they need- oxygen or nutrients but dialated pupils

is a major thing w/ADD and ADHD though I don't know about BPD).

For our part, we're going to a doctor that specializes in genetic

research on heavy metals and though its listed under the Autism

clinic and my kids are far from autistic, there's a strong

connection between heavy metal disorders and autism (hence we're not

doing vaccines for the time being and we may have to move out of the

city from all the mercury in the air...though the country has

environmental issues too). While I'm pretty safe in thinking I'm

not a BP, I do have wheat allergies and the more researrch I do, the

more I find that wheat is a bad thing for autistic kids as well as

kids w/heavy metal issues----it taxes the gut in processing and pulls

nutrients away from other places in the body. Naturally my bp loves

whole wheat, but now she's got this extremely rare form of cancer

that I think is connected to too many heavy metals in her body.If our

genetic testing comes back positive for heavy metal metabolism

problems, I may ask my family to do some testing too and see who does

carry the genetic markers for these heavy metals. I know dh's side

does as well and so I'm really grateful our kids don't have autism.

I just want to do as much as I can as a mom though to make sure they

also don't get these mental illness issues which may be related to

their genetic make up.

But yes, I think you're very much onto something w/saying there's a

genetic link.

K

> Me personallyst, I I believe the more recent researck h that

indicates tha

> bpd and other personality disorders are inherited; its just the luck

> of the genetic draw. You said your twin sisters don't look alike, so

> they are not identical twins, they must be fraternal twins: they

each

> received their own separate genetic inheritance. I'm betting your

> fellow " slave " sister, like you, dodged the genetic bpd bullet but

> your " helpless " sister got it.

>

> That really makes sense to me, because if being raised by a

> bpd/narcissist causes bpd/narcissism then both my Sister and I would

> be raging bpd/narcissists and we are not. Neither is my Sister's

> now-adult son. Neither was my dad, or my bpd-mom's two sisters. My

> Aunts are bewildered by their sister's/my nada's claims that they

were

> all three abused and beaten as children (!?) and I've recently

learned

> that my nada now claims that our dad used to beat her! WTF!? God,

> that is SO not true: nada was the only attacker and abuser.

>

> My Sister and I both remember dad and nada having fights all the

time,

> but they were always yelling matches. When things would get too

> intense dad would simply leave the house. Dad *never* hit us, or

nada.

> Nada is totally re-writing history to make herself the victim, when

> *she* was always the only one dishing out the abuse. Dear old dad

> never realized (or didn't care) that nada would get so worked up

that

> she would often continue the fight without him, substituting us kids

> for dad in his absence, screaming in our faces and whaling on us

with

> the belt to release her anger if we were stupid enough or unlucky

> enough to get trapped in the house with her.

>

> Of course, being raised by a mentally ill, abusive mother causes a

lot

> of major damage: life-long, severe damage, but it doesn't " give "

you a

> personality disorder. At least, that seems to be what the latest

> research is showing.

>

> I think of myself and my sister as survivors of a concentration camp

> experience, mostly. We were physically battered and emotionally

> tortured by nada's mind games:

>

> " Damned if you do, damned if you don't " : whether you confess to a

> wrongdoing or not, no matter what answer you give, you get beaten.

>

> " Interrogation " : being grilled about things you have absolutely no

> idea what the hell nada is even talking about, and if you say " I

don't

> know " or " I don't understand " you get hit.

>

> " Bait and switch " : nada appears contrite and sad, begging tearfully,

> " Come here, sweetheart, mommy loves you. " But if you believed her

and

> came close enough you got grabbed and smacked around.

>

> " Do It Again " : you have not met nada's standards in performing a

task,

> and she makes you do it over, and over, and over while she watches

you

> and calls you all kinds of stupid, and hits you, and you don't even

> understand why what you have done is wrong. Even more traumatic is

> having this happen in public and having people stare at you but do

> nothing to help.

>

> " Stop Crying, or I'll give you something to cry about " : we had to

> learn to not cry or react when we were being beaten. Flinching and

> crying made nada feel bad about herself. Not a good idea.

>

> My sister and I had to totally warp reality in order to get along

with

> and appease our insane primary care-giver. You think that doesn't

> cause a hell of a lot of permanent damage, think again.

>

> My Sister repeatedly tried to run away as a small child; I only

tried

> hiding myself a couple of times and hoped nada would go away. I

didn't

> want to run away from daddy, I just wanted " the woman " to go away.

>

> It ought to become a criminal offense to allow children to be raised

> by a personality disordered, mentally ill person.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My mom is an undiagnosed BPD. She has all the signs

since as

> > long

> > > > > > as I

> > > > > > > can remember. I have a twin brother which made splitting

> so much

> > > > > > > easier for her. I came out on the always bad end.

Because of

> > this

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > have a severe lack of self esteem. Yet, after moving far

> away,

> > > > > > managed

> > > > > > > to find myself. I went to therapy and was put on Paxil

for

> > > > > > depression.

> > > > > > > I also saw my own flaws and worked to correct them. A

work in

> > > > > > > progress, mind you. But aren't we all?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem came in 2002 when I met this cute British

girl at

> > > > > work.

> > > > > > > She was amazing to me at first, although there were

signs

> that

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > flare up later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I noticed she had cuts on her arm. Several, and many of

them

> > > > > deep. I

> > > > > > > asked what happened and she replied she was a rather

dramatic

> > > > > > > teenager. I brushed it off as something I didn't quite

> > > > > understand,

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > she seemed fine now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then it happened. We got married. She got her green

card and

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > soured fast. She would get angry if I was happy.

Wouldn't

> joke

> > > > > > around

> > > > > > > like she used to. She bit me and drew blood on several

> > occasions.

> > > > > > > Treated me as if I were the biggest jerk in the world

when I

> > had

> > > > > > done

> > > > > > > nothing. I found myself apologizing when SHE would act

out.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our relationship seemed like I was there to be her

punching

> > bag.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > purpose I seemed to serve was to fulfill her sick need

to

> abuse

> > > > > > > someone close to her.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We divorced two years ago. I have moved on and have

several

> > great

> > > > > > > friends although I am afraid to date. I have a serious

fear of

> > > > > > > intimacy now and don't trust females in my life to know

me

> > in any

> > > > > > > significant way. Damage I need to get back into therapy

to

> deal

> > > > > > with.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because of economic hardship, I moved back to my old

home

> town

> > > > > > where I

> > > > > > > will be living in a family owned home. Renovations

delay my

> > > > > moving

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > and in the mean time, I stay at my parents home. It is

> > > > > embarrassing

> > > > > > > and awkward, but it has afforded me the luxury of seeing

> my past

> > > > > > > through the eyes of an adult male instead of a

confused,

> > > > > terrorized

> > > > > > > little boy on the wrong end of a split.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My mother behaves so bad, like a spoiled child, that my

dad

> > is at

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > end of his rope. I can feel the tension between them.

This has

> > > > > > > apparently been brewing for years –35 years.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem I have is that I want to rescue my mother. I

> > want her

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > get into therapy before she blows this marriage. But I

> know she

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > not. I am afraid of the storm that is coming. And it is

> > coming. My

> > > > > > > father is done. I can see it in his face and hear it in

his

> > > > > voice.

> > > > > > My

> > > > > > > mother is pathetic in her daily attempts to make

interesting

> > > > > > > conversation with him as he ignores her and watches

> television

> > > > > > during

> > > > > > > meals, still stewing from the ball busting he's taken

the

> night

> > > > > > before.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I need to hold my tongue. I need to deal with this in

another

> > > > > way.

> > > > > > And

> > > > > > > I hope that this message board will help me by sharing

> with you

> > > > > > all. I

> > > > > > > need to know I'm not alone in this, that my pain is

real and

> > that

> > > > > > > there are people who 'get me.' Are you out there? I'm

> ready to

> > > > > > share,

> > > > > > > ready to listen and most of all ready to participate in

> > claiming

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > life back and helping others to do the same.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to share.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Scooter

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OMG. Bait & Switch.

 

This witch used to invite my wife & I to spend the weekend in her house, years

ago when I had no idea what was wrong, then she would have my fada call and say

that she is not feeling well and giving us a rain check and we cannot come that

weekend. This happened all the time till I figured out that there must be a

better way to live.

I feel like I want to piss on her and say it rains.

 

Saul

Subject: Re: I married my BPD mother

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 4:39 PM

Me personally, I believe the more recent research that indicates that

bpd and other personality disorders are inherited; its just the luck

of the genetic draw. You said your twin sisters don't look alike, so

they are not identical twins, they must be fraternal twins: they each

received their own separate genetic inheritance. I'm betting your

fellow " slave " sister, like you, dodged the genetic bpd bullet but

your " helpless " sister got it.

That really makes sense to me, because if being raised by a

bpd/narcissist causes bpd/narcissism then both my Sister and I would

be raging bpd/narcissists and we are not. Neither is my Sister's

now-adult son. Neither was my dad, or my bpd-mom's two sisters. My

Aunts are bewildered by their sister's/my nada's claims that they were

all three abused and beaten as children (!?) and I've recently learned

that my nada now claims that our dad used to beat her! WTF!? God,

that is SO not true: nada was the only attacker and abuser.

My Sister and I both remember dad and nada having fights all the time,

but they were always yelling matches. When things would get too

intense dad would simply leave the house. Dad *never* hit us, or nada.

Nada is totally re-writing history to make herself the victim, when

*she* was always the only one dishing out the abuse. Dear old dad

never realized (or didn't care) that nada would get so worked up that

she would often continue the fight without him, substituting us kids

for dad in his absence, screaming in our faces and whaling on us with

the belt to release her anger if we were stupid enough or unlucky

enough to get trapped in the house with her.

Of course, being raised by a mentally ill, abusive mother causes a lot

of major damage: life-long, severe damage, but it doesn't " give " you a

personality disorder. At least, that seems to be what the latest

research is showing.

I think of myself and my sister as survivors of a concentration camp

experience, mostly. We were physically battered and emotionally

tortured by nada's mind games:

" Damned if you do, damned if you don't " : whether you confess to a

wrongdoing or not, no matter what answer you give, you get beaten.

" Interrogation " : being grilled about things you have absolutely no

idea what the hell nada is even talking about, and if you say " I don't

know " or " I don't understand " you get hit.

" Bait and switch " : nada appears contrite and sad, begging tearfully,

" Come here, sweetheart, mommy loves you. " But if you believed her and

came close enough you got grabbed and smacked around.

" Do It Again " : you have not met nada's standards in performing a task,

and she makes you do it over, and over, and over while she watches you

and calls you all kinds of stupid, and hits you, and you don't even

understand why what you have done is wrong. Even more traumatic is

having this happen in public and having people stare at you but do

nothing to help.

" Stop Crying, or I'll give you something to cry about " : we had to

learn to not cry or react when we were being beaten. Flinching and

crying made nada feel bad about herself. Not a good idea.

My sister and I had to totally warp reality in order to get along with

and appease our insane primary care-giver. You think that doesn't

cause a hell of a lot of permanent damage, think again.

My Sister repeatedly tried to run away as a small child; I only tried

hiding myself a couple of times and hoped nada would go away. I didn't

want to run away from daddy, I just wanted " the woman " to go away.

It ought to become a criminal offense to allow children to be raised

by a personality disordered, mentally ill person.

-Annie

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My mom is an undiagnosed BPD. She has all the signs since as

> long

> > > > > as I

> > > > > > can remember. I have a twin brother which made splitting

so much

> > > > > > easier for her. I came out on the always bad end. Because of

> this

> > > > I

> > > > > > have a severe lack of self esteem. Yet, after moving far

away,

> > > > > managed

> > > > > > to find myself. I went to therapy and was put on Paxil for

> > > > > depression.

> > > > > > I also saw my own flaws and worked to correct them. A work in

> > > > > > progress, mind you. But aren't we all?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem came in 2002 when I met this cute British girl at

> > > > work.

> > > > > > She was amazing to me at first, although there were signs

that

> > > > would

> > > > > > flare up later.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I noticed she had cuts on her arm. Several, and many of them

> > > > deep. I

> > > > > > asked what happened and she replied she was a rather dramatic

> > > > > > teenager. I brushed it off as something I didn't quite

> > > > understand,

> > > > > but

> > > > > > she seemed fine now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Then it happened. We got married. She got her green card and

> > > > things

> > > > > > soured fast. She would get angry if I was happy. Wouldn't

joke

> > > > > around

> > > > > > like she used to. She bit me and drew blood on several

> occasions.

> > > > > > Treated me as if I were the biggest jerk in the world when I

> had

> > > > > done

> > > > > > nothing. I found myself apologizing when SHE would act out.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Our relationship seemed like I was there to be her punching

> bag.

> > > > The

> > > > > > purpose I seemed to serve was to fulfill her sick need to

abuse

> > > > > > someone close to her.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We divorced two years ago. I have moved on and have several

> great

> > > > > > friends although I am afraid to date. I have a serious fear of

> > > > > > intimacy now and don't trust females in my life to know me

> in any

> > > > > > significant way. Damage I need to get back into therapy to

deal

> > > > > with.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because of economic hardship, I moved back to my old home

town

> > > > > where I

> > > > > > will be living in a family owned home. Renovations delay my

> > > > moving

> > > > > in

> > > > > > and in the mean time, I stay at my parents home. It is

> > > > embarrassing

> > > > > > and awkward, but it has afforded me the luxury of seeing

my past

> > > > > > through the eyes of an adult male instead of a confused,

> > > > terrorized

> > > > > > little boy on the wrong end of a split.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My mother behaves so bad, like a spoiled child, that my dad

> is at

> > > > > the

> > > > > > end of his rope. I can feel the tension between them. This has

> > > > > > apparently been brewing for years –35 years.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem I have is that I want to rescue my mother. I

> want her

> > > > to

> > > > > > get into therapy before she blows this marriage. But I

know she

> > > > will

> > > > > > not. I am afraid of the storm that is coming. And it is

> coming. My

> > > > > > father is done. I can see it in his face and hear it in his

> > > > voice.

> > > > > My

> > > > > > mother is pathetic in her daily attempts to make interesting

> > > > > > conversation with him as he ignores her and watches

television

> > > > > during

> > > > > > meals, still stewing from the ball busting he's taken the

night

> > > > > before.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I need to hold my tongue. I need to deal with this in another

> > > > way.

> > > > > And

> > > > > > I hope that this message board will help me by sharing

with you

> > > > > all. I

> > > > > > need to know I'm not alone in this, that my pain is real and

> that

> > > > > > there are people who 'get me.' Are you out there? I'm

ready to

> > > > > share,

> > > > > > ready to listen and most of all ready to participate in

> claiming

> > > > my

> > > > > > life back and helping others to do the same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to share.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Scooter

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I rarely laugh out loud when reading emails but -- " I feel like I want

to piss on her and say it rains " made me fall out of my chair. Love it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My mom is an undiagnosed BPD. She has all the signs since as

> > long

> > > > > > as I

> > > > > > > can remember. I have a twin brother which made splitting

> so much

> > > > > > > easier for her. I came out on the always bad end. Because of

> > this

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > have a severe lack of self esteem. Yet, after moving far

> away,

> > > > > > managed

> > > > > > > to find myself. I went to therapy and was put on Paxil for

> > > > > > depression.

> > > > > > > I also saw my own flaws and worked to correct them. A

work in

> > > > > > > progress, mind you. But aren't we all?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem came in 2002 when I met this cute British

girl at

> > > > > work.

> > > > > > > She was amazing to me at first, although there were signs

> that

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > flare up later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I noticed she had cuts on her arm. Several, and many of

them

> > > > > deep. I

> > > > > > > asked what happened and she replied she was a rather

dramatic

> > > > > > > teenager. I brushed it off as something I didn't quite

> > > > > understand,

> > > > > > but

> > > > > > > she seemed fine now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Then it happened. We got married. She got her green card

and

> > > > > things

> > > > > > > soured fast. She would get angry if I was happy. Wouldn't

> joke

> > > > > > around

> > > > > > > like she used to. She bit me and drew blood on several

> > occasions.

> > > > > > > Treated me as if I were the biggest jerk in the world when I

> > had

> > > > > > done

> > > > > > > nothing. I found myself apologizing when SHE would act out.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Our relationship seemed like I was there to be her punching

> > bag.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > purpose I seemed to serve was to fulfill her sick need to

> abuse

> > > > > > > someone close to her.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We divorced two years ago. I have moved on and have several

> > great

> > > > > > > friends although I am afraid to date. I have a serious

fear of

> > > > > > > intimacy now and don't trust females in my life to know me

> > in any

> > > > > > > significant way. Damage I need to get back into therapy to

> deal

> > > > > > with.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because of economic hardship, I moved back to my old home

> town

> > > > > > where I

> > > > > > > will be living in a family owned home. Renovations delay my

> > > > > moving

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > and in the mean time, I stay at my parents home. It is

> > > > > embarrassing

> > > > > > > and awkward, but it has afforded me the luxury of seeing

> my past

> > > > > > > through the eyes of an adult male instead of a confused,

> > > > > terrorized

> > > > > > > little boy on the wrong end of a split.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My mother behaves so bad, like a spoiled child, that my dad

> > is at

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > end of his rope. I can feel the tension between them.

This has

> > > > > > > apparently been brewing for years –35 years.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem I have is that I want to rescue my mother. I

> > want her

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > get into therapy before she blows this marriage. But I

> know she

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > not. I am afraid of the storm that is coming. And it is

> > coming. My

> > > > > > > father is done. I can see it in his face and hear it in his

> > > > > voice.

> > > > > > My

> > > > > > > mother is pathetic in her daily attempts to make interesting

> > > > > > > conversation with him as he ignores her and watches

> television

> > > > > > during

> > > > > > > meals, still stewing from the ball busting he's taken the

> night

> > > > > > before.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I need to hold my tongue. I need to deal with this in

another

> > > > > way.

> > > > > > And

> > > > > > > I hope that this message board will help me by sharing

> with you

> > > > > > all. I

> > > > > > > need to know I'm not alone in this, that my pain is real and

> > that

> > > > > > > there are people who 'get me.' Are you out there? I'm

> ready to

> > > > > > share,

> > > > > > > ready to listen and most of all ready to participate in

> > claiming

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > life back and helping others to do the same.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to share.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Scooter

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Randi, on the subject of twins:

My two younger sisters are identical twins. Although one is left-

handed, has a job in sciences, and out of the 3 daughters has the most

similar personality and behaviour to nada (eg kicks a hole in the door,

most behaviourally outgoing as a child eg climbing bookcase). The

other twin is right-handed, into languages and debating, and is the

most assertive of the 3 daughters.

Nada seemed to beat and still criticises the most the twin who is most

behaviourally like herself. Criticises what she wears, argues with

her, etc. (I did the opposite of that twin -I was quiet and stayed in

my room reading books, to not attract nada's attention, and was passive

and said nothing to nada.)

I don't think any of the 3 daughters have bpd, although I am passive

and left-handed twin is more behaviourally aggressive. I think all 3

of us are kind and considerate of other people, but 2 of us at least

(me and left-handed twin) I think have the most squashed self-esteems,

and all 3 of us have a lack of friendships/relationships. All due to

having a BPD mother.

[Guest guest]

Wow, I think it would be so extremely valuable and informative if

researchers could study mental disorders in families with identical

twins, such as statistical studies on whether bpd (or other pds) occur

in both identical twins or not, and if so how frequently.

The " hard sciences " RE the study of mental disorders (as opposed to

the " soft science " of psychology/psychiatry) fascinates me now: the

genetics issue (determining which gene or gene sets are responsible

for which pds) how the brain works (live 3-D brain imaging to

literally see which parts of the brain are active or not active in

people with pds,) the effect of stress hormones on developing

children (measuring levels of stress hormones in the children of the

mentally ill vs children of the mentally healthy) etc., etc., because

I think the " hard science " fields hold the most possibility of hope

for future generations RE pre-pregnancy screenings, gene therapy, and

things like that.

-Annie

>

> Randi, on the subject of twins:

> My two younger sisters are identical twins. Although one is left-

> handed, has a job in sciences, and out of the 3 daughters has the most

> similar personality and behaviour to nada (eg kicks a hole in the door,

> most behaviourally outgoing as a child eg climbing bookcase). The

> other twin is right-handed, into languages and debating, and is the

> most assertive of the 3 daughters.

> Nada seemed to beat and still criticises the most the twin who is most

> behaviourally like herself. Criticises what she wears, argues with

> her, etc. (I did the opposite of that twin -I was quiet and stayed in

> my room reading books, to not attract nada's attention, and was passive

> and said nothing to nada.)

> I don't think any of the 3 daughters have bpd, although I am passive

> and left-handed twin is more behaviourally aggressive. I think all 3

> of us are kind and considerate of other people, but 2 of us at least

> (me and left-handed twin) I think have the most squashed self-esteems,

> and all 3 of us have a lack of friendships/relationships. All due to

> having a BPD mother.

>

[Guest guest]

I've thought about the genetic link as well, and I've come to the

conclusion, for myself, that the borderline and narcissistic

personality disorders in my family are environmental rather than

genetic. I'm not a doctor to be able to say such a thing, but this

is what " feels right " given my family situation.

My mom is probably BPD, and both of her sisters definitely are BPD.

But, their father was an abusive alcoholic/narcissist type, and from

what I know about their family, it's not surprising that they are

the way they are.

My siblings and I also have problems, but we grew up in a totally

crazy home. If I think about all the people I know and how they

would have reacted to the level of insanity that went on in our

lives, I think we're all pretty average.

People actually often tell me I'm surprisingly normal/stable, given

my parents. I think that's because I'm biochemically average.

I have definite problems, which I tend to hide from people (so they

often think I'm more stable than I am) but really I think most

people would have my problems given my situation.

I'm not some hero like Mother or Gandhi to be able to

overcome any obstacle or abuse in life. I'm just a normal person

with normal (albeit severe) issues due to an extreme situation.

That means that my problem isn't genetic, unless you count being

human as a " genetic " problem.

I think this goes for my family, too. If I ever have kids, I won't

pass BPD onto them because of genetics. However, I think I'm at

risk for passing it on just because I had no sane parenting role

models in my life, and I was trained to believe a lot of crazy

things. I don't even know where my social skills might be lacking

because I have no context for normal.

This is just my opinion about myself and my own family.

>

> I wonder about the genetic factor as well, my nada's sister and

> brother are not like her. But my uncle is definitely a hot-head,

he

> has a temper for sure but is not abusive like nada with the

> humiliation, name-calling, etc. My aunt is the nicest person you

> could meet. My grandma died when I was young but I remember her as

> being really fun and nice. She is remembered that way by all the

> family. I never saw her lose her cool and have never heard anyone

> else speak of that either. I didn't know my grandfather because he

> died before I was born. I know nothing about him other than he

died

> from cancer and that it was traumatic to my nada. As far as the

rest

> of the family, my nada's aunts, uncles, etc. I only know very

little

> and have never heard of anything that would make me think of BPD.

I

> do know that a uncle of nada's was put into an mental institution

and

> lived there his whole life. But I was told that he was actually

> mentally retarded and back in those days that is where someone

> suffering from that would go. He died before I was born also.

>

[Guest guest]

I once lived in an airstream travel trailer earning under the table

$2.00 hour and *collecting cans*. I begged, borrowed and stole

anything extra that was necessary. Anything, trust me ANYTHING is

worth not depending on Nada for an existense. It is sooo worth it to

fly on your own even if you have a broken wing.

M

> >

> > My mom is an undiagnosed BPD. She has all the signs since as long

> as I

> > can remember. I have a twin brother which made splitting so much

> > easier for her. I came out on the always bad end. Because of this

I

> > have a severe lack of self esteem. Yet, after moving far away,

> managed

> > to find myself. I went to therapy and was put on Paxil for

> depression.

> > I also saw my own flaws and worked to correct them. A work in

> > progress, mind you. But aren't we all?

> >

> > The problem came in 2002 when I met this cute British girl at

work.

> > She was amazing to me at first, although there were signs that

would

> > flare up later.

> >

> > I noticed she had cuts on her arm. Several, and many of them

deep. I

> > asked what happened and she replied she was a rather dramatic

> > teenager. I brushed it off as something I didn't quite

understand,

> but

> > she seemed fine now.

> >

> > Then it happened. We got married. She got her green card and

things

> > soured fast. She would get angry if I was happy. Wouldn't joke

> around

> > like she used to. She bit me and drew blood on several occasions.

> > Treated me as if I were the biggest jerk in the world when I had

> done

> > nothing. I found myself apologizing when SHE would act out.

> >

> > Our relationship seemed like I was there to be her punching bag.

The

> > purpose I seemed to serve was to fulfill her sick need to abuse

> > someone close to her.

> >

> > We divorced two years ago. I have moved on and have several great

> > friends although I am afraid to date. I have a serious fear of

> > intimacy now and don't trust females in my life to know me in any

> > significant way. Damage I need to get back into therapy to deal

> with.

> >

> > Because of economic hardship, I moved back to my old home town

> where I

> > will be living in a family owned home. Renovations delay my

moving

> in

> > and in the mean time, I stay at my parents home. It is

embarrassing

> > and awkward, but it has afforded me the luxury of seeing my past

> > through the eyes of an adult male instead of a confused,

terrorized

> > little boy on the wrong end of a split.

> >

> > My mother behaves so bad, like a spoiled child, that my dad is at

> the

> > end of his rope. I can feel the tension between them. This has

> > apparently been brewing for years –35 years.

> >

> > The problem I have is that I want to rescue my mother. I want her

to

> > get into therapy before she blows this marriage. But I know she

will

> > not. I am afraid of the storm that is coming. And it is coming. My

> > father is done. I can see it in his face and hear it in his

voice.

> My

> > mother is pathetic in her daily attempts to make interesting

> > conversation with him as he ignores her and watches television

> during

> > meals, still stewing from the ball busting he's taken the night

> before.

> >

> > I need to hold my tongue. I need to deal with this in another

way.

> And

> > I hope that this message board will help me by sharing with you

> all. I

> > need to know I'm not alone in this, that my pain is real and that

> > there are people who 'get me.' Are you out there? I'm ready to

> share,

> > ready to listen and most of all ready to participate in claiming

my

> > life back and helping others to do the same.

> >

> > Thanks for the opportunity to share.

> >

> > Scooter

> >

>

[Guest guest]

astridz00: You wrote - I don't even know where my social skills might

be lacking because I have no context for normal. I feel EXACTLY the

same way! And that really worries me, how can I heal and live a

healthy life when I have no idea what is even damaged.

> >

> > I wonder about the genetic factor as well, my nada's sister and

> > brother are not like her. But my uncle is definitely a hot-head,

> he

> > has a temper for sure but is not abusive like nada with the

> > humiliation, name-calling, etc. My aunt is the nicest person you

> > could meet. My grandma died when I was young but I remember her as

> > being really fun and nice. She is remembered that way by all the

> > family. I never saw her lose her cool and have never heard anyone

> > else speak of that either. I didn't know my grandfather because he

> > died before I was born. I know nothing about him other than he

> died

> > from cancer and that it was traumatic to my nada. As far as the

> rest

> > of the family, my nada's aunts, uncles, etc. I only know very

> little

> > and have never heard of anything that would make me think of BPD.

> I

> > do know that a uncle of nada's was put into an mental institution

> and

> > lived there his whole life. But I was told that he was actually

> > mentally retarded and back in those days that is where someone

> > suffering from that would go. He died before I was born also.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You can get a lot of info from self-help books, especially on parenting, and

from therapy.

And then once you are a parent, you seek help for issues as they arise -from

books,

doctors and other professionals, friends, support groups like this, etc. I'm a

very good

parent, and it's not by accident. My daughter is adopted, and I have to admit

I'm kind of

relieved not to have any chance of passing on the crazy genes to her, but I

really have

done a lot of work to get to the point of being a good parent. As for social

skills, therapy

and good friends can help a lot. Everyone is " damaged " to some extent.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " damemagnifique00 "

wrote:

>

> astridz00: You wrote - I don't even know where my social skills might

> be lacking because I have no context for normal. I feel EXACTLY the

> same way! And that really worries me, how can I heal and live a

> healthy life when I have no idea what is even damaged.

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I wonder about the genetic factor as well, my nada's sister and

> > > brother are not like her. But my uncle is definitely a hot-head,

> > he

> > > has a temper for sure but is not abusive like nada with the

> > > humiliation, name-calling, etc. My aunt is the nicest person you

> > > could meet. My grandma died when I was young but I remember her as

> > > being really fun and nice. She is remembered that way by all the

> > > family. I never saw her lose her cool and have never heard anyone

> > > else speak of that either. I didn't know my grandfather because he

> > > died before I was born. I know nothing about him other than he

> > died

> > > from cancer and that it was traumatic to my nada. As far as the

> > rest

> > > of the family, my nada's aunts, uncles, etc. I only know very

> > little

> > > and have never heard of anything that would make me think of BPD.

> > I

> > > do know that a uncle of nada's was put into an mental institution

> > and

> > > lived there his whole life. But I was told that he was actually

> > > mentally retarded and back in those days that is where someone

> > > suffering from that would go. He died before I was born also.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

true that it is not your job! us children soooo wanted to warn away

each of my mother's boyfriends and husbands, but they had their own

(unfortunate) path to follow. they wouldn't have believed us anyway.

poor things - we son't keep contact with ANY of them, thjey were so

badly burnt. cheers

> >

> > The problem I have is that I want to rescue my mother. I want her

to

> > get into therapy before she blows this marriage.

>

> Not

>

> Your

>

> Job.

>

>

> You already know that on some level. They are adults and will

either

> handle their own issues or not. Your only job is to learn to deal

> with your own. If you like, you might start by examining that

> compulsion to rescue her: where does it come from? how do you feel

> about it? what are you afraid will happen to *you* if you don't

get

> involved? etc.

> On some level, do you wish someone would come and rescue you

> instead? What if you rescued yourself?

>

> In general, people try to solve the problems we have with our

parents

> by entering into relationships with other people who resemble

them.

> One reason we on this board find ourselves in relationships with

> people who have traits consistent with personality disorders--

> particularly BPD and NPD--is that they feel familiar, but

psychology

> says that we are also trying to solve those childhood problems with

> surrogates who remind us of our parents. The trouble is, we're

> usually not aware of this and end up in a cycle of problematic

> relationships. Others have recommended books by Harville Hendrix

(I

> think " Finding the Love You Want " ? or something like that...) So

it

> is not a big surprise that you ended up with a woman who was

> trouble. I really strongly recommend you find a good therapist.

>

> You say you are moving into a family home. Times had better be

> harder than hard for you to do that. I do not recommend becoming

> dependent on your parents for any reason. If it is unavoidable,

it's

> unavoidable...but have a plan and clearly communicate with them

what

> your expectations are about the arrangement. Your mother will

> undoubtedly take this as a wonderful opportunity to manipulate you.

>

> Best of luck to you,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie - I am right there with you on this one.

I have been telling a friend of mine who is a doctor and also has a

mentally ill mother that I can't believe we aren't farther ahead in

genetic research. I know it is all tied to how we run our healthcare

and educational/research systems that it isn't moving faster but

there are many lives at stake here.

Even with physical impairments, it is difficult to dose medications &

treatments correctly because every person responds so differently.

Pair that same difficulty with few to no quantitative measurements

for those with mental impairments and it is unbelievably hit or miss

to find appropriate treatments. And someone with bpd probably isn't

a very good source to self report how treatment is going.

I have actually contemplated going on to research this more when my

kids get a little older. My OT professor at UW Madison (see below)

has researched the affects of stress and alcohol on pregnant monkeys'

infants. They are looking for causes of Sensory Integration

dysfunctions in children since it seems to be on the rise but I'm

sure are open to other results found through the research. That

would be very interesting to see if " mental illness " can be diagnosed

in monkeys.

Karin

> >

> > Randi, on the subject of twins:

> > My two younger sisters are identical twins. Although one is left-

> > handed, has a job in sciences, and out of the 3 daughters has the

most

> > similar personality and behaviour to nada (eg kicks a hole in the

door,

> > most behaviourally outgoing as a child eg climbing bookcase).

The

> > other twin is right-handed, into languages and debating, and is

the

> > most assertive of the 3 daughters.

> > Nada seemed to beat and still criticises the most the twin who is

most

> > behaviourally like herself. Criticises what she wears, argues

with

> > her, etc. (I did the opposite of that twin -I was quiet and

stayed in

> > my room reading books, to not attract nada's attention, and was

passive

> > and said nothing to nada.)

> > I don't think any of the 3 daughters have bpd, although I am

passive

> > and left-handed twin is more behaviourally aggressive. I think

all 3

> > of us are kind and considerate of other people, but 2 of us at

least

> > (me and left-handed twin) I think have the most squashed self-

esteems,

> > and all 3 of us have a lack of friendships/relationships. All

due to

> > having a BPD mother.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A study was done decades ago (I seem to remember reading about this in

a National Geographic magazine) that demonstrated what a profound

effect a lack of mother/child bonding had on infant monkeys.

One set of infant monkeys was removed from their mothers and

individually isolated. Each infant was fed and kept clean, but kept

from interaction with any living thing. I'll have to look up the

particulars/details of that study again to be sure, but I believe that

the isolated infants died. Even though they were fed, they died from

" failure to thrive " .

A second set of baby monkeys were again individually isolated, but

each was given a padded wooden " mother " that they could cling to, and

it had a baby bottle attached that they could suckle, but it was an

inanimate object and gave no interaction. These infant monkeys

lived, but they were completely insane and unable to socialize with

other monkeys when introduced into an existing group of normally

socialized young adult monkeys. The monkeys raised with the inanimate

" mother " would cower away from the other monkeys and scream in fear if

the others tried to approach them, and I believe this set of monkeys

were eventually killed by the group of normally socialized monkeys.

So, yes, more studies need to be done to re-emphasize just how

extremely crucial a factor the mother-child bond is in the normal,

healthy development of us higher-mammal types.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Randi, on the subject of twins:

> > > My two younger sisters are identical twins. Although one is left-

> > > handed, has a job in sciences, and out of the 3 daughters has the

> most

> > > similar personality and behaviour to nada (eg kicks a hole in the

> door,

> > > most behaviourally outgoing as a child eg climbing bookcase).

> The

> > > other twin is right-handed, into languages and debating, and is

> the

> > > most assertive of the 3 daughters.

> > > Nada seemed to beat and still criticises the most the twin who is

> most

> > > behaviourally like herself. Criticises what she wears, argues

> with

> > > her, etc. (I did the opposite of that twin -I was quiet and

> stayed in

> > > my room reading books, to not attract nada's attention, and was

> passive

> > > and said nothing to nada.)

> > > I don't think any of the 3 daughters have bpd, although I am

> passive

> > > and left-handed twin is more behaviourally aggressive. I think

> all 3

> > > of us are kind and considerate of other people, but 2 of us at

> least

> > > (me and left-handed twin) I think have the most squashed self-

> esteems,

> > > and all 3 of us have a lack of friendships/relationships. All

> due to

> > > having a BPD mother.

> > >

> >

>