Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Welcome to the group! Glad to have you here. Having a spiritual crisis is very common among non-BPs. Randi Kreger Randi @BPDCentral.com www.BPDCentral.com * NEW! Author, The Essential Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells ................................................... Hi All, I am so grateful to find a group that appears to have experienced the same kinds of dysfunction..(I'm new to researching the BPD..I am convinced that my mother (and possibly grandfather) is BPD with maybe Bi-Polar thrown in for good measure). We live 1200 miles apart, and it is from this last Christmas experience that I am expecting to become the last of their (stepfather and mother) family contact. I am an only child (It appears that there a quite a few onlies out there and for me this means there are no other siblings for spreading the wonderful cheer " ). My parents drove to spend over a month in the same town from Thanksgiving (which was somewhat nice) through a couple of days after Christmas. (which was a depressing one AGAIN!) I am asking if there are others out there who have experienced the religious aspect of this. My faith has been utterly challenged. The issues with my mother run very deep. My step father is now fully on board with my mother believing she is a special messenger, has special insight, (this also spills into areas such as the JFK assasination) and so forth. This Christmas, she left my home after starting to be verbally abusive with my 15y/o daughter (who was already stressed with having to go to her dad's)..go on and on about Christmas not being Halloween (my daughter wears black, etc.) and that it is HIS birthday. (never mind the fact that Dec. 25th is not His real birthday. She decided to leave, when I told her to stop the verbal assaults, saying she wasn't going to stay where she was being insulted. During their stay (at a motel, not in my home..) I had my parents over for two social events. The second one was with another couple, and they could see that there was something a little off in the limited time they had with her. At any rate, I would appreciate others sharing their experiences. My mother switches from being obsessive about me (her security passwords are the letters of my name), many times in the mindset that we are exactly the same, to being verbally abusive (you're not listening to God and therefore I have to tell you what He's been trying to tell you)..she has demanded that I tell her how I pray and tell me what words to use, and as you all know, the stories and experiences are volumes. She did the same thing with my grandmother and it was hell on earth for her. Many tearful conversations with my elderly grandmother asking me why my mother behaved and refused to have contact with her..My mother cut off all contact with her family (my uncles, cousins and grandmother) after my uncle wrote her a letter about her religious tirades and what is was doing to their mother (my grandmother). She didn't speak to my grandmother for I think 10 years before she passed away. How painful it was when my grandmother came out of her death stupor during the four days I was there and asked why my mother did what she did and sobbed. She was in and out of this stupor and after I left didn't come into consciouseness before passing away. I was irritated when my mother wanted to know some of the details (i.e. was she in pain, etc.) I look forward to hearing from you as it will help me recover during this journey we have for whatever reason have been handed. My younger daughter is going through identity crisis' and will be getting counseling next week, and I am going to see if I can find a therapist who is familiar with BPD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Dear hanaleigecko, How unfortunate that your mother has used religion to manipulate you. Randi is right that a spiritual crisis is common for us " nons " , particularly when the BP is ultra-religious (like yours). It sounds like your mother enjoys the special attention she is able to get through her particular religious culture. Not all Christians behave the way she and your stepfather seem to. From what you have written, it sounds like your parents belong to a charismatic-type congregation. This kind of church has its origins in the beginning of last century, so historically speaking, it is relatively young and less-established. You may find greater stability and feel less manipulated by looking into a different kind of community than the kind your parents have chosen. Maybe something more liturgical? Like Episcopalian or Lutheran if you want something Protestant, or Catholic, or Orthodox if you really want something that hasn't changed in a couple thousand years. (In the interest of full disclosure I will tell you that I am now Orthodox. So I'm a little biased...anyway, if you or anyone else is ever interested in more details, email me privately so we don't annoy any un-interested others). Anyway, those are just suggestions and are not meant to offend anybody. If my mom were like yours I would wonder if God was even real or if He was just something like Santa Claus (oops, I mean SATAN Claus ;-) that she made up to manipulate me. I don't blame you a bit for feeling how you feel. When I have been in spiritual crisis, I have found it helpful to keep praying anyway. Sometimes it was as short a prayer as " I dont' know what to believe anymore but I'll still try to believe You're there. " It is okay to admit that you are having a spiritual struggle. I hope you and your daughter are both able to find help with a good therapist. I am also sad to hear about the experience you had with your grandmother passing. I wish you condolence in all things. Welcome to the board. OAdultChildren1 , " hanaleigecko " wrote: > > Welcome to the group! Glad to have you here. Having a spiritual crisis is very common among non-BPs. > > Randi Kreger > Randi @BPDCentral.com > www.BPDCentral.com > * NEW! Author, The Essential Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: > New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells > .................................................. > > > Hi All, > I am so grateful to find a group that appears to have experienced > the same kinds of dysfunction..(I'm new to researching the BPD..I am > convinced that my mother (and possibly grandfather) is BPD with maybe > Bi-Polar thrown in for good measure). We live 1200 miles apart, and > it is from this last Christmas experience that I am expecting to > become the last of their (stepfather and mother) family contact. I am > an only child (It appears that there a quite a few onlies out there > and for me this means there are no other siblings for spreading the > wonderful cheer " ). My parents drove to spend over a month in the > same town from Thanksgiving (which was somewhat nice) through a > couple of days after Christmas. (which was a depressing one AGAIN!) > > I am asking if there are others out there who have experienced the > religious aspect of this. My faith has been utterly challenged. The > issues with my mother run very deep. My step father is now fully on > board with my mother believing she is a special messenger, has > special insight, (this also spills into areas such as the JFK > assasination) and so forth. This Christmas, she left my home after > starting to be verbally abusive with my 15y/o daughter (who was > already stressed with having to go to her dad's)..go on and on about > Christmas not being Halloween (my daughter wears black, etc.) and > that it is HIS birthday. (never mind the fact that Dec. 25th is not > His real birthday. She decided to leave, when I told her to stop the > verbal assaults, saying she wasn't going to stay where she was being > insulted. > > During their stay (at a motel, not in my home..) I had my parents > over for two social events. The second one was with another couple, > and they could see that there was something a little off in the > limited time they had with her. > > At any rate, I would appreciate others sharing their experiences. My > mother switches from being obsessive about me (her security passwords > are the letters of my name), many times in the mindset that we are > exactly the same, to being verbally abusive (you're not listening to > God and therefore I have to tell you what He's been trying to tell > you)..she has demanded that I tell her how I pray and tell me what > words to use, and as you all know, the stories and experiences are > volumes. She did the same thing with my grandmother and it was hell > on earth for her. Many tearful conversations with my elderly > grandmother asking me why my mother behaved and refused to have > contact with her..My mother cut off all contact with her family (my > uncles, cousins and grandmother) after my uncle wrote her a letter > about her religious tirades and what is was doing to their mother (my > grandmother). She didn't speak to my grandmother for I think 10 years > before she passed away. How painful it was when my grandmother came > out of her death stupor during the four days I was there and asked > why my mother did what she did and sobbed. She was in and out of this > stupor and after I left didn't come into consciouseness before > passing away. I was irritated when my mother wanted to know some of > the details (i.e. was she in pain, etc.) > > I look forward to hearing from you as it will help me recover during > this journey we have for whatever reason have been handed. My younger > daughter is going through identity crisis' and will be getting > counseling next week, and I am going to see if I can find a therapist > who is familiar with BPD. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 My mom totally uses religion. It's infuriating to me at this point. I am going through a lot of anger right now. But, more specifically, mom is a fundamentalist, charismatic type Christian. She has a lot of trouble with me because I now go to an Episcopal church. She specifically told me, " It's your journey to hell. " She used to tell me all the time how evil the Episcopal church is. She also told me " No husband is worth my soul. " She said that my marriage and attendance at Episcopal church was an " evil " and " insidious " attack. She tells me, " If the truth hurts, there's nothing she can do. " She also would cry and bemoan the fact that I was going there. She quotes bible verses to me like, " In the last days perilous times will come; people will be disobedient to their parents, from such people turn away. " (I don't know the exact quote on that one, but something to that effect.) She also thinks and states fairly often that anyone who voted for Obama (which I did and she knows that I did) is going to hell. So, in a nutshell, my mom totally uses her religion to try to control me. I hate it. It angers me so much right now. I pretty much think my mom is a word I can't use on this forum. > > > > Welcome to the group! Glad to have you here. Having a spiritual > crisis is very common among non-BPs. > > > > Randi Kreger > > Randi @BPDCentral.com > > www.BPDCentral.com > > * NEW! Author, The Essential Guide to Borderline Personality > Disorder: > > New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells > > .................................................. > > > > > > Hi All, > > I am so grateful to find a group that appears to have experienced > > the same kinds of dysfunction..(I'm new to researching the BPD..I am > > convinced that my mother (and possibly grandfather) is BPD with > maybe > > Bi-Polar thrown in for good measure). We live 1200 miles apart, and > > it is from this last Christmas experience that I am expecting to > > become the last of their (stepfather and mother) family contact. I > am > > an only child (It appears that there a quite a few onlies out there > > and for me this means there are no other siblings for spreading the > > wonderful cheer " ). My parents drove to spend over a month in the > > same town from Thanksgiving (which was somewhat nice) through a > > couple of days after Christmas. (which was a depressing one AGAIN!) > > > > I am asking if there are others out there who have experienced the > > religious aspect of this. My faith has been utterly challenged. The > > issues with my mother run very deep. My step father is now fully on > > board with my mother believing she is a special messenger, has > > special insight, (this also spills into areas such as the JFK > > assasination) and so forth. This Christmas, she left my home after > > starting to be verbally abusive with my 15y/o daughter (who was > > already stressed with having to go to her dad's)..go on and on about > > Christmas not being Halloween (my daughter wears black, etc.) and > > that it is HIS birthday. (never mind the fact that Dec. 25th is not > > His real birthday. She decided to leave, when I told her to stop > the > > verbal assaults, saying she wasn't going to stay where she was being > > insulted. > > > > During their stay (at a motel, not in my home..) I had my parents > > over for two social events. The second one was with another couple, > > and they could see that there was something a little off in the > > limited time they had with her. > > > > At any rate, I would appreciate others sharing their experiences. My > > mother switches from being obsessive about me (her security > passwords > > are the letters of my name), many times in the mindset that we are > > exactly the same, to being verbally abusive (you're not listening to > > God and therefore I have to tell you what He's been trying to tell > > you)..she has demanded that I tell her how I pray and tell me what > > words to use, and as you all know, the stories and experiences are > > volumes. She did the same thing with my grandmother and it was hell > > on earth for her. Many tearful conversations with my elderly > > grandmother asking me why my mother behaved and refused to have > > contact with her..My mother cut off all contact with her family (my > > uncles, cousins and grandmother) after my uncle wrote her a letter > > about her religious tirades and what is was doing to their mother > (my > > grandmother). She didn't speak to my grandmother for I think 10 > years > > before she passed away. How painful it was when my grandmother came > > out of her death stupor during the four days I was there and asked > > why my mother did what she did and sobbed. She was in and out of > this > > stupor and after I left didn't come into consciouseness before > > passing away. I was irritated when my mother wanted to know some of > > the details (i.e. was she in pain, etc.) > > > > I look forward to hearing from you as it will help me recover during > > this journey we have for whatever reason have been handed. My > younger > > daughter is going through identity crisis' and will be getting > > counseling next week, and I am going to see if I can find a > therapist > > who is familiar with BPD. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Thank you, , Randi and Blue-Jay for responding to my post. My spiritual background is pretty deep in that I went to private schools from k-5th grade, taught sunday school when I was 14-16 y/o, very involved with women's groups, Bible studies (the ones that go to the Hebrew and Greek translations), led worship for various groups (children's, women's, retreats, congregational) and on and off for the past 25 plus years. My ex and I were site managers for three years at a Christian camp (that I still call my second home). My cousins' mother (who passed away a couple of years ago) was the same way as my own. One cousin's husband is an assistant pastor, and her mother tried to get him fired. She and my mother behaved in the same manner as what I am reading about. My mother and their mother starting communicating a few years (and always about the Lord) before she passed away (their mother and dad divorced when we were all in middle school, so it had been literally years since they had seen each other or talked. My mother cut off communication with my cousins (as I mentioned before) as she believes that she always 'had to leave Jesus on the porch'...sigh..they miss their aunt, but having experienced the same thing with their own mother, very much understand what I am going through. To be told by my mother that I am not being obedient to the Lord (even when I was doing everything " right " ) and that it is all my fault that my girls are...fill in the blank.., my responsibility, etc. (never mind that there IS another parent involved, namely their father), regarding my daughters, started to shake my faith. Actually, it really started when I was going through my divorce back in 1998, and as a single mother who has gone back to school and completed both a BS and a masters degree, buying a house on my own and successful as a woman, I'm struggling to find that balance between maintaining my mental health and a life both for my daughters (now almost 20 and 15 y/o). Anyway, I really appreciate your willingness to share your experiences. It is helping me greatly especially since my younger daughter is going through some real depression, which affects me as I struggle to find my own peaceful place.. Thank you again.. To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: blue-jay11@...: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:16:26 +0000Subject: Re: Newbie My mom totally uses religion. It's infuriating to me at this point. I am going through a lot of anger right now. But, more specifically, mom is a fundamentalist, charismatic type Christian. She has a lot of trouble with me because I now go to an Episcopal church. She specifically told me, " It's your journey to hell. " She used to tell me all the time how evil the Episcopal church is. She also told me " No husband is worth my soul. " She said that my marriage and attendance at Episcopal church was an " evil " and " insidious " attack. She tells me, " If the truth hurts, there's nothing she can do. " She also would cry and bemoan the fact that I was going there. She quotes bible verses to me like, " In the last days perilous times will come; people will be disobedient to their parents, from such people turn away. " (I don't know the exact quote on that one, but something to that effect.) She also thinks and states fairly often that anyone who voted for Obama (which I did and she knows that I did) is going to hell. So, in a nutshell, my mom totally uses her religion to try to control me. I hate it. It angers me so much right now. I pretty much think my mom is a word I can't use on this forum.> >> > Welcome to the group! Glad to have you here. Having a spiritual > crisis is very common among non-BPs.> > > > Randi Kreger> > Randi @BPDCentral.com> > www.BPDCentral.com> > * NEW! Author, The Essential Guide to Borderline Personality > Disorder:> > New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells> > ..................................................> > > > > > Hi All,> > I am so grateful to find a group that appears to have experienced> > the same kinds of dysfunction..(I'm new to researching the BPD..I am> > convinced that my mother (and possibly grandfather) is BPD with > maybe> > Bi-Polar thrown in for good measure). We live 1200 miles apart, and> > it is from this last Christmas experience that I am expecting to> > become the last of their (stepfather and mother) family contact. I > am> > an only child (It appears that there a quite a few onlies out there> > and for me this means there are no other siblings for spreading the> > wonderful cheer " ). My parents drove to spend over a month in the> > same town from Thanksgiving (which was somewhat nice) through a> > couple of days after Christmas. (which was a depressing one AGAIN!)> > > > I am asking if there are others out there who have experienced the> > religious aspect of this. My faith has been utterly challenged. The> > issues with my mother run very deep. My step father is now fully on> > board with my mother believing she is a special messenger, has> > special insight, (this also spills into areas such as the JFK> > assasination) and so forth. This Christmas, she left my home after> > starting to be verbally abusive with my 15y/o daughter (who was> > already stressed with having to go to her dad's)..go on and on about> > Christmas not being Halloween (my daughter wears black, etc.) and> > that it is HIS birthday. (never mind the fact that Dec. 25th is not> > His real birthday. She decided to leave, when I told her to stop > the> > verbal assaults, saying she wasn't going to stay where she was being> > insulted.> > > > During their stay (at a motel, not in my home..) I had my parents> > over for two social events. The second one was with another couple,> > and they could see that there was something a little off in the> > limited time they had with her.> > > > At any rate, I would appreciate others sharing their experiences. My> > mother switches from being obsessive about me (her security > passwords> > are the letters of my name), many times in the mindset that we are> > exactly the same, to being verbally abusive (you're not listening to> > God and therefore I have to tell you what He's been trying to tell> > you)..she has demanded that I tell her how I pray and tell me what> > words to use, and as you all know, the stories and experiences are> > volumes. She did the same thing with my grandmother and it was hell> > on earth for her. Many tearful conversations with my elderly> > grandmother asking me why my mother behaved and refused to have> > contact with her..My mother cut off all contact with her family (my> > uncles, cousins and grandmother) after my uncle wrote her a letter> > about her religious tirades and what is was doing to their mother > (my> > grandmother). She didn't speak to my grandmother for I think 10 > years> > before she passed away. How painful it was when my grandmother came> > out of her death stupor during the four days I was there and asked> > why my mother did what she did and sobbed. She was in and out of > this> > stupor and after I left didn't come into consciouseness before> > passing away. I was irritated when my mother wanted to know some of> > the details (i.e. was she in pain, etc.)> > > > I look forward to hearing from you as it will help me recover during> > this journey we have for whatever reason have been handed. My > younger> > daughter is going through identity crisis' and will be getting> > counseling next week, and I am going to see if I can find a > therapist> > who is familiar with BPD.> >> _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitwor\ ks_012009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Reading this has made me wonder how many of you have nadas who are very religious? My nada is extremely religious and uses that to justify her arguements all the time. I stems back to her childhood for sure and as I learn more about my nada I wonder what my grandparents were like to her. I'm sure they were BPD or at least one of them was. My grandparents were nothing but wonderful to me and my nada has a fierce devotion to them even with them both having passed on.  I grew up going to church every Sunday including Sunday School.. youth group on Wednesdays.. VBS and Bible camp in the summer. When I was in high school I went on a few mission trips and even graduated from a Christian college with a double major, one being in Bible. I have since stopped going to church, not because I don't have that faith or don't believe anymore, but because I have found my OWN faith and not the faith of my nada's. She has used her religoius background and everything on my siblings and I for YEARS. My brother was married in 1998 to a Catholic girl and that was one of the biggest family problems we have had in years. I will still remember her trying to convince me to tell my brother to stop the wedding the night before he was to be married. She even threatened to not attend the wedding, even though she did with a huge pout on her face the whole time.  The newest situation is my pending divorce. She has no care about whether I am happy and if I'm doing well. When I told her about it last June she cried. Not because I was hurting but because she didn't like the word " divorce " and that she was worried about what other people will think. And of course she will use religion in it too. Talking about how my not going to church was the reason I'm getting a divorce... how I should've been seeing the pastor that married me instead of my therapist, etc etc etc. I could go on and on about how she has used religion and anything else to pressure me into feeling guilty.  Heidi Subject: RE: Re: Newbie To: wtoadultchildren1 Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 5:06 PM Thank you, , Randi and Blue-Jay for responding to my post. My spiritual background is pretty deep in that I went to private schools from k-5th grade, taught sunday school when I was 14-16 y/o, very involved with women's groups, Bible studies (the ones that go to the Hebrew and Greek translations), led worship for various groups (children's, women's, retreats, congregational) and on and off for the past 25 plus years. My ex and I were site managers for three years at a Christian camp (that I still call my second home). My cousins' mother (who passed away a couple of years ago) was the same way as my own. One cousin's husband is an assistant pastor, and her mother tried to get him fired. She and my mother behaved in the same manner as what I am reading about. My mother and their mother starting communicating a few years (and always about the Lord) before she passed away (their mother and dad divorced when we were all in middle school, so it had been literally years since they had seen each other or talked. My mother cut off communication with my cousins (as I mentioned before) as she believes that she always 'had to leave Jesus on the porch'...sigh..they miss their aunt, but having experienced the same thing with their own mother, very much understand what I am going through. To be told by my mother that I am not being obedient to the Lord (even when I was doing everything " right " ) and that it is all my fault that my girls are...fill in the blank.., my responsibility, etc. (never mind that there IS another parent involved, namely their father), regarding my daughters, started to shake my faith. Actually, it really started when I was going through my divorce back in 1998, and as a single mother who has gone back to school and completed both a BS and a masters degree, buying a house on my own and successful as a woman, I'm struggling to find that balance between maintaining my mental health and a life both for my daughters (now almost 20 and 15 y/o). Anyway, I really appreciate your willingness to share your experiences. It is helping me greatly especially since my younger daughter is going through some real depression, which affects me as I struggle to find my own peaceful place.. Thank you again.. To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: blue-jay11@...: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:16:26 +0000Subject: Re: Newbie My mom totally uses religion. It's infuriating to me at this point. I am going through a lot of anger right now. But, more specifically, mom is a fundamentalist, charismatic type Christian. She has a lot of trouble with me because I now go to an Episcopal church. She specifically told me, " It's your journey to hell. " She used to tell me all the time how evil the Episcopal church is. She also told me " No husband is worth my soul. " She said that my marriage and attendance at Episcopal church was an " evil " and " insidious " attack. She tells me, " If the truth hurts, there's nothing she can do. " She also would cry and bemoan the fact that I was going there. She quotes bible verses to me like, " In the last days perilous times will come; people will be disobedient to their parents, from such people turn away. " (I don't know the exact quote on that one, but something to that effect.) She also thinks and states fairly often that anyone who voted for Obama (which I did and she knows that I did) is going to hell. So, in a nutshell, my mom totally uses her religion to try to control me. I hate it. It angers me so much right now. I pretty much think my mom is a word I can't use on this forum.> >> > Welcome to the group! Glad to have you here. Having a spiritual > crisis is very common among non-BPs.> > > > Randi Kreger> > Randi @BPDCentral.com> > www.BPDCentral.com> > * NEW! Author, The Essential Guide to Borderline Personality > Disorder:> > New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells> > ..................................................> > > > > > Hi All,> > I am so grateful to find a group that appears to have experienced> > the same kinds of dysfunction..(I'm new to researching the BPD..I am> > convinced that my mother (and possibly grandfather) is BPD with > maybe> > Bi-Polar thrown in for good measure). We live 1200 miles apart, and> > it is from this last Christmas experience that I am expecting to> > become the last of their (stepfather and mother) family contact. I > am> > an only child (It appears that there a quite a few onlies out there> > and for me this means there are no other siblings for spreading the> > wonderful cheer " ). My parents drove to spend over a month in the> > same town from Thanksgiving (which was somewhat nice) through a> > couple of days after Christmas. (which was a depressing one AGAIN!)> > > > I am asking if there are others out there who have experienced the> > religious aspect of this. My faith has been utterly challenged. The> > issues with my mother run very deep. My step father is now fully on> > board with my mother believing she is a special messenger, has> > special insight, (this also spills into areas such as the JFK> > assasination) and so forth. This Christmas, she left my home after> > starting to be verbally abusive with my 15y/o daughter (who was> > already stressed with having to go to her dad's)..go on and on about> > Christmas not being Halloween (my daughter wears black, etc.) and> > that it is HIS birthday. (never mind the fact that Dec. 25th is not> > His real birthday. She decided to leave, when I told her to stop > the> > verbal assaults, saying she wasn't going to stay where she was being> > insulted.> > > > During their stay (at a motel, not in my home..) I had my parents> > over for two social events. The second one was with another couple,> > and they could see that there was something a little off in the> > limited time they had with her.> > > > At any rate, I would appreciate others sharing their experiences. My> > mother switches from being obsessive about me (her security > passwords> > are the letters of my name), many times in the mindset that we are> > exactly the same, to being verbally abusive (you're not listening to> > God and therefore I have to tell you what He's been trying to tell> > you)..she has demanded that I tell her how I pray and tell me what> > words to use, and as you all know, the stories and experiences are> > volumes. She did the same thing with my grandmother and it was hell> > on earth for her. Many tearful conversations with my elderly> > grandmother asking me why my mother behaved and refused to have> > contact with her..My mother cut off all contact with her family (my> > uncles, cousins and grandmother) after my uncle wrote her a letter> > about her religious tirades and what is was doing to their mother > (my> > grandmother). She didn't speak to my grandmother for I think 10 > years> > before she passed away. How painful it was when my grandmother came> > out of her death stupor during the four days I was there and asked> > why my mother did what she did and sobbed. She was in and out of > this> > stupor and after I left didn't come into consciouseness before> > passing away. I was irritated when my mother wanted to know some of> > the details (i.e. was she in pain, etc.)> > > > I look forward to hearing from you as it will help me recover during> > this journey we have for whatever reason have been handed. My > younger> > daughter is going through identity crisis' and will be getting> > counseling next week, and I am going to see if I can find a > therapist> > who is familiar with BPD.> >> _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitwor\ ks_012009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Heidi, Im sorry to hear that you are going through a divorce. No matter the reason, it is a difficult season. Because I started to open up to my mother during that time when I started the process of divorcing, she became what she perceived as the 'rescuer'..although, I have to admit, there were pivotal points she made that resonated with me at the time. Then, it was when she would tell me how she wished I had of stayed until i got through college, or something so that I wouldnt' have to 'suffer so much'..that I started to evaluate just how 'helpful' she really was. She started to change her words telling me she never encouraged me to get a divorce, etc. It was then that I started to see more concrete examples of something not being quite right. My parents do not belong to any church (there are always reasons, usually because of my mother's view she is a prophet, messenger, etc. and we all know how long the attention would last), even though my step father felt he needed the fellowship of others. (again, though, we know how the isolation from others works). Her 'best friends' are those who she may have called and gotten to know via long distance (a secretary for some lawyer, politician, pastor, etc.). Her 'lady friends' fit right into her beliefs, and of course, she would NEVER treat any of them the way she has treated her family..I can't tell you how many hours she has spent gossiping about people I have never met. My significant other and I have been living together for over a year, and she only met him this past holiday season, yet, there were a couple of times that she actually said " He is just like me..I know how he thinks.. " to which I replied " you have never even talked with him nor have seen a picture of him..how can you even think you know him or you are just like him " . I just don't get it...how do you communicate with people like this? I have hung up on her a number of times and she at least will leave me alone until something happens like the Virginia Tech shootings. She called me (Im in the Pacific Northwest) and said she just needed to know I was okay, asking if we were all right..Im on the opposite side of the country at another university! Im saddened that my stepfather, who until recently I thought was fairly level headed, is also believing her when it comes to being 'special'. I had hoped to have a hard conversation about what i have been observing, but after this past year and visit, I know that this won't be possible until she becomes incapacitated in some manner (I expect a phone call that she has had a stroke because of how out of control she gets with her anger). Anyway, I find some comfort in hearing others who have not lost their inner faith, but are struggling with all that they had believed and stood on. Thanks, Heidi for sharing..I know the pain of divorce all too well and wish you well! > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > From: heidithejoy@... > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:31:15 -0800 > Subject: RE: Re: Newbie > > Reading this has made me wonder how many of you have nadas who are very religious? My nada is extremely religious and uses that to justify her arguements all the time. I stems back to her childhood for sure and as I learn more about my nada I wonder what my grandparents were like to her. I'm sure they were BPD or at least one of them was. My grandparents were nothing but wonderful to me and my nada has a fierce devotion to them even with them both having passed on. > > I grew up going to church every Sunday including Sunday School.. youth group on Wednesdays.. VBS and Bible camp in the summer. When I was in high school I went on a few mission trips and even graduated from a Christian college with a double major, one being in Bible. I have since stopped going to church, not because I don't have that faith or don't believe anymore, but because I have found my OWN faith and not the faith of my nada's. She has used her religoius background and everything on my siblings and I for YEARS. My brother was married in 1998 to a Catholic girl and that was one of the biggest family problems we have had in years. I will still remember her trying to convince me to tell my brother to stop the wedding the night before he was to be married. She even threatened to not attend the wedding, even though she did with a huge pout on her face the whole time. > > The newest situation is my pending divorce. She has no care about whether I am happy and if I'm doing well. When I told her about it last June she cried. Not because I was hurting but because she didn't like the word " divorce " and that she was worried about what other people will think. And of course she will use religion in it too. Talking about how my not going to church was the reason I'm getting a divorce... how I should've been seeing the pastor that married me instead of my therapist, etc etc etc. I could go on and on about how she has used religion and anything else to pressure me into feeling guilty. > > Heidi > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: Newbie > To: wtoadultchildren1 > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 5:06 PM > > Thank you, , Randi and Blue-Jay for responding to my post. My spiritual > background is pretty deep in that I went to private schools from k-5th grade, > taught sunday school when I was 14-16 y/o, very involved with women's > groups, Bible studies (the ones that go to the Hebrew and Greek translations), > led worship for various groups (children's, women's, retreats, > congregational) and on and off for the past 25 plus years. My ex and I were site > managers for three years at a Christian camp (that I still call my second home). > My cousins' mother (who passed away a couple of years ago) was the same way > as my own. One cousin's husband is an assistant pastor, and her mother tried > to get him fired. She and my mother behaved in the same manner as what I am > reading about. My mother and their mother starting communicating a few years > (and always about the Lord) before she passed away (their mother and dad > divorced when we were all in middle school, so it had been literally years since > they had seen each other or talked. My mother cut off communication with my > cousins (as I mentioned before) as she believes that she always 'had to > leave Jesus on the porch'...sigh..they miss their aunt, but having > experienced the same thing with their own mother, very much understand what I am > going through. > > To be told by my mother that I am not being obedient to the Lord (even when I > was doing everything " right " ) and that it is all my fault that my > girls are...fill in the blank.., my responsibility, etc. (never mind that there > IS another parent involved, namely their father), regarding my daughters, > started to shake my faith. Actually, it really started when I was going through > my divorce back in 1998, and as a single mother who has gone back to school and > completed both a BS and a masters degree, buying a house on my own and > successful as a woman, I'm struggling to find that balance between > maintaining my mental health and a life both for my daughters (now almost 20 and > 15 y/o). > > Anyway, I really appreciate your willingness to share your experiences. It is > helping me greatly especially since my younger daughter is going through some > real depression, which affects me as I struggle to find my own peaceful place.. > > Thank you again.. > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: blue-jay11@...: Sun, 11 > Jan 2009 05:16:26 +0000Subject: Re: Newbie > > > > My mom totally uses religion. It's infuriating to me at this point. I am > going through a lot of anger right now. But, more specifically, mom is a > fundamentalist, charismatic type Christian. She has a lot of trouble with me > because I now go to an Episcopal church. She specifically told me, > " It's your journey to hell. " She used to tell me all the time how > evil the Episcopal church is. She also told me " No husband is worth my > soul. " She said that my marriage and attendance at Episcopal church was an > " evil " and " insidious " attack. She tells me, " If the > truth hurts, there's nothing she can do. " She also would cry and bemoan > the fact that I was going there. She quotes bible verses to me like, " In > the last days perilous times will come; people will be disobedient to their > parents, from such people turn away. " (I don't know the exact quote on > that one, but something to that effect.) She also thinks and states fairly often > that anyone who voted for Obama (which I did and she knows that I did) is going > to hell. So, in a nutshell, my mom totally uses her religion to try to control > me. I hate it. It angers me so much right now. I pretty much think my mom is a > word I can't use on this forum.> >> > Welcome to the group! Glad > to have you here. Having a spiritual > crisis is very common among > non-BPs.> > > > Randi Kreger> > Randi @BPDCentral.com> > > www.BPDCentral.com> > * NEW! Author, The Essential Guide to Borderline > Personality > Disorder:> > New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on > Eggshells> > ..................................................> > > > > > > Hi All,> > I am so grateful to find a group that > appears to have experienced> > the same kinds of dysfunction..(I'm new > to researching the BPD..I am> > convinced that my mother (and possibly > grandfather) is BPD with > maybe> > Bi-Polar thrown in for good > measure). We live 1200 miles apart, and> > it is from this last Christmas > experience that I am expecting to> > become the last of their (stepfather > and mother) family contact. I > am> > an only child (It appears that > there a quite a few onlies out there> > and for me this means there are no > other siblings for spreading the> > wonderful cheer " ). My parents > drove to spend over a month in the> > same town from Thanksgiving (which > was somewhat nice) through a> > couple of days after Christmas. (which was > a depressing one AGAIN!)> > > > I am asking if there are others out > there who have experienced the> > religious aspect of this. My faith has > been utterly challenged. The> > issues with my mother run very deep. My > step father is now fully on> > board with my mother believing she is a > special messenger, has> > special insight, (this also spills into areas > such as the JFK> > assasination) and so forth. This Christmas, she left my > home after> > starting to be verbally abusive with my 15y/o daughter (who > was> > already stressed with having to go to her dad's)..go on and on > about> > Christmas not being Halloween (my daughter wears black, etc.) > and> > that it is HIS birthday. (never mind the fact that Dec. 25th is > not> > His real birthday. She decided to leave, when I told her to stop > > the> > verbal assaults, saying she wasn't going to stay where she > was being> > insulted.> > > > During their stay (at a motel, > not in my home..) I had my parents> > over for two social events. The > second one was with another couple,> > and they could see that there was > something a little off in the> > limited time they had with her.> > > > > At any rate, I would appreciate others sharing their experiences. > My> > mother switches from being obsessive about me (her security > > passwords> > are the letters of my name), many times in the mindset that > we are> > exactly the same, to being verbally abusive (you're not > listening to> > God and therefore I have to tell you what He's been > trying to tell> > you)..she has demanded that I tell her how I pray and > tell me what> > words to use, and as you all know, the stories and > experiences are> > volumes. She did the same thing with my grandmother and > it was hell> > on earth for her. Many tearful conversations with my > elderly> > grandmother asking me why my mother behaved and refused to > have> > contact with her..My mother cut off all contact with her family > (my> > uncles, cousins and grandmother) after my uncle wrote her a > letter> > about her religious tirades and what is was doing to their > mother > (my> > grandmother). She didn't speak to my grandmother > for I think 10 > years> > before she passed away. How painful it was > when my grandmother came> > out of her death stupor during the four days I > was there and asked> > why my mother did what she did and sobbed. She was > in and out of > this> > stupor and after I left didn't come into > consciouseness before> > passing away. I was irritated when my mother > wanted to know some of> > the details (i.e. was she in pain, etc.)> > > > > I look forward to hearing from you as it will help me recover > during> > this journey we have for whatever reason have been handed. My > > younger> > daughter is going through identity crisis' and will be > getting> > counseling next week, and I am going to see if I can find a > > therapist> > who is familiar with BPD.> >> > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitwor\ ks_012009 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I can relate to your post where you describe how your nada rewrote the past (she did/didn't advise you to divorce) how her closest friends are actually long distance acquaintances, and how she gossips negatively about her church friends while being sweet to their faces. I sometimes would get the feeling (when I spent more than a day or two visiting my nada) that something wasn't right, that she wasn't fully there with me, somehow. Perhaps she was dissociating; maybe that's what that looks like to an observer. I don't know which is more painful: watching nada try to be nice to me and ask about things she has no real interest in, forcing herself to try and pay attention as I talk with her, being struck by how fake the smiles and perkiness are.... or having her be " real " with me, watching her take the mask off, and seeing the seething, repressed, unquenchable anger and bottomless well of hurt boil out. And my nada does that " I never said that, that never happened " stuff, and the negative-talk. Negative gossip, negative stories, negative events. It makes me want to carry a recording device with me when I'm around her and play back what she says, as proof. She probably doesn't realize how very depressing it is to be around her. -Annie > >> > Welcome to the group! Glad > > to have you here. Having a spiritual > crisis is very common among > > non-BPs.> > > > Randi Kreger> > Randi @BPDCentral.com> > > > www.BPDCentral.com> > * NEW! Author, The Essential Guide to Borderline > > Personality > Disorder:> > New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on > > Eggshells> > ..................................................> > > > > > > > Hi All,> > I am so grateful to find a group that > > appears to have experienced> > the same kinds of dysfunction..(I'm new > > to researching the BPD..I am> > convinced that my mother (and possibly > > grandfather) is BPD with > maybe> > Bi-Polar thrown in for good > > measure). We live 1200 miles apart, and> > it is from this last Christmas > > experience that I am expecting to> > become the last of their (stepfather > > and mother) family contact. I > am> > an only child (It appears that > > there a quite a few onlies out there> > and for me this means there are no > > other siblings for spreading the> > wonderful cheer " ). My parents > > drove to spend over a month in the> > same town from Thanksgiving (which > > was somewhat nice) through a> > couple of days after Christmas. (which was > > a depressing one AGAIN!)> > > > I am asking if there are others out > > there who have experienced the> > religious aspect of this. My faith has > > been utterly challenged. The> > issues with my mother run very deep. My > > step father is now fully on> > board with my mother believing she is a > > special messenger, has> > special insight, (this also spills into areas > > such as the JFK> > assasination) and so forth. This Christmas, she left my > > home after> > starting to be verbally abusive with my 15y/o daughter (who > > was> > already stressed with having to go to her dad's)..go on and on > > about> > Christmas not being Halloween (my daughter wears black, etc.) > > and> > that it is HIS birthday. (never mind the fact that Dec. 25th is > > not> > His real birthday. She decided to leave, when I told her to stop > > > the> > verbal assaults, saying she wasn't going to stay where she > > was being> > insulted.> > > > During their stay (at a motel, > > not in my home..) I had my parents> > over for two social events. The > > second one was with another couple,> > and they could see that there was > > something a little off in the> > limited time they had with her.> > > > > > At any rate, I would appreciate others sharing their experiences. > > My> > mother switches from being obsessive about me (her security > > > passwords> > are the letters of my name), many times in the mindset that > > we are> > exactly the same, to being verbally abusive (you're not > > listening to> > God and therefore I have to tell you what He's been > > trying to tell> > you)..she has demanded that I tell her how I pray and > > tell me what> > words to use, and as you all know, the stories and > > experiences are> > volumes. She did the same thing with my grandmother and > > it was hell> > on earth for her. Many tearful conversations with my > > elderly> > grandmother asking me why my mother behaved and refused to > > have> > contact with her..My mother cut off all contact with her family > > (my> > uncles, cousins and grandmother) after my uncle wrote her a > > letter> > about her religious tirades and what is was doing to their > > mother > (my> > grandmother). She didn't speak to my grandmother > > for I think 10 > years> > before she passed away. How painful it was > > when my grandmother came> > out of her death stupor during the four days I > > was there and asked> > why my mother did what she did and sobbed. She was > > in and out of > this> > stupor and after I left didn't come into > > consciouseness before> > passing away. I was irritated when my mother > > wanted to know some of> > the details (i.e. was she in pain, etc.)> > > > > > I look forward to hearing from you as it will help me recover > > during> > this journey we have for whatever reason have been handed. My > > > younger> > daughter is going through identity crisis' and will be > > getting> > counseling next week, and I am going to see if I can find a > > > therapist> > who is familiar with BPD.> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitwor\ ks_012009 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hi K G Oh yes, religion can definitely be a weapon of choice for nadas/fadas. I am not an only child and I can imagine how hard that is to not spread the pain around. On a positive about that though is it makes triangulation harder for bpds. My dad is a pastor. I never witnessed my nada being a spiritually in touch person but she definitely uses bible verses to make her arguments. I find she is particularly adept at using her congregation for spreading her smear campaigns around town or whatever her agenda for the week is. I have found it helpful to keep looking at her use of religion the same as someone who uses a car unsafely. Cars by themselves are not bad but cars used unsafely can be potentially deadly. I see religion in nada's hands just like this. It helps me to still be able to draw in my spirituality and faith for strength without having negative feeling about it because of nada. Welcome and we are glad you are here! Karin/patinage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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