Re: Using a narcissist as a refuge from nada- any input?

[Guest guest]

Malinda, I'm so sorry you had to endure that insane scene at your nadas!

Just wanted to say I've been where you are -- I sought refuge and escape with

another personality-disordered person, married him very young and stayed with

him for 2 decades, despite the abuse, because it felt like a safe haven from

nada!

It's not really, though -- really, you WILL find safety in youself, and with

other people who love you and treat you with respect. The alternative to

cutting these abusers out of your life ISN'T isolation and being alone... it's

filling your life with people who love, support and DON'T abuse you!

Keep posting -- so excited to hear your looking for a new apartment! Why do you

think you need a new therapist? Are you not getting enough good

support/information there?

(And by the way -- it's OKAY TO LEAVE anytime your nada starts raging in front

of you, even if she's got dye in her hair. What she's doing to you is ABUSE.

You don't have to stay.)

-S

Using a narcissist as a refuge from nada- any

input?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain on

> a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike being

> sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and my

> feelings.

>

> I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and I

> was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I dyed

> my nada's hair.

>

> It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging

> blinds -

> he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told

> him he

> was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I asked

> my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> ladder.

>

> Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks so

> unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she has

> the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't

> have to

> find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me how

> dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I

> am as

> I daughter.

>

> She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was

> to

> her.

> I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to

> have a

> bad relationship with my daughter.

>

> She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I don't

> because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> everyone in my life including her. I understood that our relationship

> had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I

> talk to

> her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I

> could do.

>

> Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to

> dye

> my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince

> for me. "

>

> I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and

> if

> she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I

> won't

> play these games anymore with her.

>

> Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the highlights.

> I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with

> nada-

> I really have been listening to what everyone says in these

> posts- I

> did not back down and I also remained calm.

>

> I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I definitely

> know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and

> emotionally

> abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me

> from my

> bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> inside of me.

>

> I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give

> up on

> me.

>

> Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in

> a sick

> way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't a

> good place for me.

>

> Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> Malinda

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Safety in myself- it such an amazing concept- and refuge in myself

is another. Thank you again for your support of my journey away from

the pain- and towards the hope and possibilities for a new life away

from the 2 abusive people.

You so understand the true emotional warfare going inside of me. I

guess part of me wants to take the express lane to this new life- and

I think maybe a new therapist will make the journey happen sooner-

but then this is not a race- it is my life.

Bless you - for responding and understanding,

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , slarsen988@... wrote:

>

> Malinda, I'm so sorry you had to endure that insane scene at your

nadas!

>

> Just wanted to say I've been where you are -- I sought refuge and

escape with another personality-disordered person, married him very

young and stayed with him for 2 decades, despite the abuse, because

it felt like a safe haven from nada!

>

> It's not really, though -- really, you WILL find safety in youself,

and with other people who love you and treat you with respect. The

alternative to cutting these abusers out of your life ISN'T isolation

and being alone... it's filling your life with people who love,

support and DON'T abuse you!

>

> Keep posting -- so excited to hear your looking for a new

apartment! Why do you think you need a new therapist? Are you not

getting enough good support/information there?

>

> (And by the way -- it's OKAY TO LEAVE anytime your nada starts

raging in front of you, even if she's got dye in her hair. What

she's doing to you is ABUSE. You don't have to stay.)

>

> -S

>

>

> Using a narcissist as a refuge from

nada- any input?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

>

> > Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain on

> > a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike being

> > sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and

my

> > feelings.

> >

> > I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and I

> > was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I

dyed

> > my nada's hair.

> >

> > It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging

> > blinds -

> > he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> > shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told

> > him he

> > was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I

asked

> > my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> > ladder.

> >

> > Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> > wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks

so

> > unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she

has

> > the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't

> > have to

> > find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me

how

> > dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I

> > am as

> > I daughter.

> >

> > She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> > and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> > blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was

> > to

> > her.

> > I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to

> > have a

> > bad relationship with my daughter.

> >

> > She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> > almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I

don't

> > because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> > everyone in my life including her. I understood that our

relationship

> > had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I

> > talk to

> > her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I

> > could do.

> >

> > Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> > I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to

> > dye

> > my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince

> > for me. "

> >

> > I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and

> > if

> > she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I

> > won't

> > play these games anymore with her.

> >

> > Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> > left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the

highlights.

> > I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with

> > nada-

> > I really have been listening to what everyone says in these

> > posts- I

> > did not back down and I also remained calm.

> >

> > I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> > cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I

definitely

> > know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and

> > emotionally

> > abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me

> > from my

> > bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> > inside of me.

> >

> > I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> > to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give

> > up on

> > me.

> >

> > Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> > need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in

> > a sick

> > way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't a

> > good place for me.

> >

> > Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> > Malinda

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Malinda,

I used to be involved with an abusive man...probably a narcissist as

it is truly all about him. I felt like a ping pong ball, not knowing

who I could trust because when I would get beaten up emotionally I

would turn to him to try to feel safe and when he would abuse me I

would turn to my mother (nada) for comfort and to try to feel safe.

Of course neither person was good for me and I eventually left him

and slowly cut my mom out of my life. I have since found others to

turn to...people that I could be safe with and who were good to me.

It has been a long road (4 years) of rebuilding my self esteem after

that abusive relationship. I am not necessarily counseling you to

leave your husband but he is not the one to turn to because he will

us your weakness and vulnerability as a control mechanism, " See? I

am the sane one to turn to. You are nothing without me. No one

would date you but me " etc etc.

I went from an abusive parent to an abusive relationship and they are

more alike then different. You have to find your support network

away from the abusers...period.

You deserve to be taken care of without a sick agenda attached.

Be well,

Dorian

> ,

>

> Safety in myself- it such an amazing concept- and refuge in myself

> is another. Thank you again for your support of my journey away from

> the pain- and towards the hope and possibilities for a new life away

> from the 2 abusive people.

>

> You so understand the true emotional warfare going inside of me. I

> guess part of me wants to take the express lane to this new life- and

> I think maybe a new therapist will make the journey happen sooner-

> but then this is not a race- it is my life.

>

> Bless you - for responding and understanding,

>

> Malinda

>

> In WTOAdultChildren1 , slarsen988@... wrote:

> >

> > Malinda, I'm so sorry you had to endure that insane scene at your

> nadas!

> >

> > Just wanted to say I've been where you are -- I sought refuge and

> escape with another personality-disordered person, married him very

> young and stayed with him for 2 decades, despite the abuse, because

> it felt like a safe haven from nada!

> >

> > It's not really, though -- really, you WILL find safety in youself,

> and with other people who love you and treat you with respect. The

> alternative to cutting these abusers out of your life ISN'T isolation

> and being alone... it's filling your life with people who love,

> support and DON'T abuse you!

> >

> > Keep posting -- so excited to hear your looking for a new

> apartment! Why do you think you need a new therapist? Are you not

> getting enough good support/information there?

> >

> > (And by the way -- it's OKAY TO LEAVE anytime your nada starts

> raging in front of you, even if she's got dye in her hair. What

> she's doing to you is ABUSE. You don't have to stay.)

> >

> > -S

> >

> >

> > Using a narcissist as a refuge from

> nada- any input?

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> >

> > > Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain on

> > > a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike being

> > > sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and

> my

> > > feelings.

> > >

> > > I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and I

> > > was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I

> dyed

> > > my nada's hair.

> > >

> > > It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging

> > > blinds -

> > > he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> > > shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told

> > > him he

> > > was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I

> asked

> > > my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> > > ladder.

> > >

> > > Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> > > wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks

> so

> > > unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she

> has

> > > the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't

> > > have to

> > > find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me

> how

> > > dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I

> > > am as

> > > I daughter.

> > >

> > > She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> > > and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> > > blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was

> > > to

> > > her.

> > > I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to

> > > have a

> > > bad relationship with my daughter.

> > >

> > > She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> > > almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I

> don't

> > > because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> > > everyone in my life including her. I understood that our

> relationship

> > > had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I

> > > talk to

> > > her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I

> > > could do.

> > >

> > > Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> > > I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to

> > > dye

> > > my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince

> > > for me. "

> > >

> > > I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and

> > > if

> > > she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I

> > > won't

> > > play these games anymore with her.

> > >

> > > Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> > > left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the

> highlights.

> > > I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with

> > > nada-

> > > I really have been listening to what everyone says in these

> > > posts- I

> > > did not back down and I also remained calm.

> > >

> > > I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> > > cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I

> definitely

> > > know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and

> > > emotionally

> > > abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me

> > > from my

> > > bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> > > inside of me.

> > >

> > > I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> > > to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give

> > > up on

> > > me.

> > >

> > > Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> > > need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in

> > > a sick

> > > way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't a

> > > good place for me.

> > >

> > > Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> > > Malinda

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm pretty sure that that's one of the major reasons I never married,

or even dated very much. I didn't want to be either one of the only

two models I was exposed to, of what an adult relationship was like,

and I thought " dominant " or " submissive " were my only two choices.

I did not want to be the passive, abused appendage of a domineering

husband (continuing my role as nada's subject) and I sure as hell did

not want to become my nada either. I couldn't stand the idea of

turning into another scary, hateful, hurtful thing like her . So, I

chose to be neither. I had no concept of how to have a normal,

healthy relationship with another person, where the two friends or the

two lovers are equal, so, I chose to be alone.

Trouble is, the older you get, the less chances there are to find a

partner, so, I hope you younger folks will have better luck than I

did, and go forth and find a mentally healthy partner for yourselves

while your choices and options are more abundant.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Malinda, I'm so sorry you had to endure that insane scene at your

> > nadas!

> > >

> > > Just wanted to say I've been where you are -- I sought refuge and

> > escape with another personality-disordered person, married him very

> > young and stayed with him for 2 decades, despite the abuse, because

> > it felt like a safe haven from nada!

> > >

> > > It's not really, though -- really, you WILL find safety in youself,

> > and with other people who love you and treat you with respect. The

> > alternative to cutting these abusers out of your life ISN'T isolation

> > and being alone... it's filling your life with people who love,

> > support and DON'T abuse you!

> > >

> > > Keep posting -- so excited to hear your looking for a new

> > apartment! Why do you think you need a new therapist? Are you not

> > getting enough good support/information there?

> > >

> > > (And by the way -- it's OKAY TO LEAVE anytime your nada starts

> > raging in front of you, even if she's got dye in her hair. What

> > she's doing to you is ABUSE. You don't have to stay.)

> > >

> > > -S

> > >

> > >

> > > Using a narcissist as a refuge from

> > nada- any input?

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > >

> > > > Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain on

> > > > a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike being

> > > > sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and

> > my

> > > > feelings.

> > > >

> > > > I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and I

> > > > was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I

> > dyed

> > > > my nada's hair.

> > > >

> > > > It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging

> > > > blinds -

> > > > he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> > > > shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told

> > > > him he

> > > > was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I

> > asked

> > > > my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> > > > ladder.

> > > >

> > > > Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> > > > wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks

> > so

> > > > unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she

> > has

> > > > the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't

> > > > have to

> > > > find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me

> > how

> > > > dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I

> > > > am as

> > > > I daughter.

> > > >

> > > > She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> > > > and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> > > > blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was

> > > > to

> > > > her.

> > > > I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to

> > > > have a

> > > > bad relationship with my daughter.

> > > >

> > > > She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> > > > almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I

> > don't

> > > > because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> > > > everyone in my life including her. I understood that our

> > relationship

> > > > had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I

> > > > talk to

> > > > her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I

> > > > could do.

> > > >

> > > > Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> > > > I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to

> > > > dye

> > > > my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince

> > > > for me. "

> > > >

> > > > I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and

> > > > if

> > > > she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I

> > > > won't

> > > > play these games anymore with her.

> > > >

> > > > Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> > > > left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the

> > highlights.

> > > > I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with

> > > > nada-

> > > > I really have been listening to what everyone says in these

> > > > posts- I

> > > > did not back down and I also remained calm.

> > > >

> > > > I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> > > > cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I

> > definitely

> > > > know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and

> > > > emotionally

> > > > abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me

> > > > from my

> > > > bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> > > > inside of me.

> > > >

> > > > I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> > > > to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give

> > > > up on

> > > > me.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> > > > need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in

> > > > a sick

> > > > way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't a

> > > > good place for me.

> > > >

> > > > Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> > > > Malinda

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I have found a good man and a healthy relationship. The trick is to

not sabatoge it because deep down I don't feel worthy. Also, what I

have started to do is that if I recognize anything that resembles my

nada's behavior in my interactions with my son or my partner, I

immediately walk away and call someone who is aware of my history and

BPD to run my view of things past them to make sure I take a deep

breathe and take responsibility for my part in the upset, which

frankly is usually my doing something to sabatoge.

Taking responsibility is a lot different from feeling like everything

is my fault. I do not beat myself up or try not to...I just see my

part, make amends, and try to do better next time. That has helped a

lot in working towards all relationships. I have been so brutally

hard on myself all of my life because I continued the nada's abuse

Now I am slowly making progress to not beat myself up when I make a

mistake. I think it is possible to have sane and healthy

relationships if we use the nada/fada's behavior of the exact thing

NOT to do as a barometer.

But I am just beginning to understand all of this, I certainly do not

have all the answers. I just believe we can set down this rock and

move on to happy lives.

Peace,

Dorian

[Guest guest]

You can hve a healthy relationship!!

 

My husbands mom is the Nada in my family. When we first met, he was convinced

that he never wanted to get married. Never wanted kids. Well I can't blame him

for the role modle he had!!

 

After we were together  for like 9 months he realized that he DID want to marry

me (YEA!) & he does want kids!! This was hard for him to come to tearms with due

to the fears he had related to his nada.

 

Well now 2 1/2 years later we are married & 'trying'!!! Yea!!

 

Everything is great with us.

 

You can over come your nada!

 

Have faith in yourself!!

 

Subject: Re: Re: Using a narcissist as a refuge from nada-

any input?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:06 PM

I have found a good man and a healthy relationship. The trick is to

not sabatoge it because deep down I don't feel worthy. Also, what I

have started to do is that if I recognize anything that resembles my

nada's behavior in my interactions with my son or my partner, I

immediately walk away and call someone who is aware of my history and

BPD to run my view of things past them to make sure I take a deep

breathe and take responsibility for my part in the upset, which

frankly is usually my doing something to sabatoge.

Taking responsibility is a lot different from feeling like everything

is my fault. I do not beat myself up or try not to...I just see my

part, make amends, and try to do better next time. That has helped a

lot in working towards all relationships. I have been so brutally

hard on myself all of my life because I continued the nada's abuse

Now I am slowly making progress to not beat myself up when I make a

mistake. I think it is possible to have sane and healthy

relationships if we use the nada/fada's behavior of the exact thing

NOT to do as a barometer.

But I am just beginning to understand all of this, I certainly do not

have all the answers. I just believe we can set down this rock and

move on to happy lives.

Peace,

Dorian

[Guest guest]

Malinda;

My situation in the past was similar to yours, where my husband (who has

multiple personality disorder along with a few other things) was a refuge

from my nada. Over the years, we eventually had our own rooms and " areas " of

the house. It worked so well that, long story short, during this last move,

we each got very small but separate apartments with just one small building

in-between. The more time I spend living alone the more I want to live

alone. It's great not having his issues in my face or have him undermine me.

I don't have to answer his calls, either. With multiple personality

disorder, there really is a bag of tricks to deal with and I've had enough.

I guess it's no surprise that my mother just loved him from day one and

urged me to marry him much sooner than I should have.

There is more to the story but I don't want to get too far off the list

topic. Suffice to say, maybe you can arrange somewhere in the house that is

yours - but with a narcissist, it has to be done in such a way that he

thinks it somehow enhances him and is to his benefit - which you probably

already know all too well, sad to say!

Flowers in Oz

----- Original Message -----

I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I definitely

know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and emotionally

abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me from my

bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

inside of me.

I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give up on

me.

Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in a sick

way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't a

good place for me.

Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

Malinda

[Guest guest]

I want to tell you to be kind and gentle to yourself and with yourself. You are

a beautiful

person, I can tell from your posts. You deserve all the kindness and gentleness

the world

has to give. I believe that you can do what is best for you. We are rooting

for you!

>

> Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain on

> a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike being

> sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and my

> feelings.

>

> I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and I

> was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I dyed

> my nada's hair.

>

> It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging blinds -

> he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told him he

> was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I asked

> my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> ladder.

>

> Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks so

> unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she has

> the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't have to

> find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me how

> dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I am as

> I daughter.

>

> She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was to

> her.

> I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to have a

> bad relationship with my daughter.

>

> She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I don't

> because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> everyone in my life including her. I understood that our relationship

> had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I talk to

> her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I could do.

>

> Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to dye

> my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince for me. "

>

> I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and if

> she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I won't

> play these games anymore with her.

>

> Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the highlights.

> I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with nada-

> I really have been listening to what everyone says in these posts- I

> did not back down and I also remained calm.

>

> I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I definitely

> know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and emotionally

> abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me from my

> bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> inside of me.

>

> I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give up on

> me.

>

> Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in a sick

> way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't a

> good place for me.

>

> Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

To ALL of YOU who responded to this post- your words of hope- love,

compassion and validation are just overwhelming to me.

You care because you can- you validate because you know the pain we

have all felt- you give hope because you know in that hope we grow

and move forward. What amazes me is how much love is shown in all of

these posts- my included- from people who were often deprived of

love- hope- compassion and validation- I carry a piece of all of you

on this board in my heart and soul.

You have given back to me so much that was lost or destroyed in my

relationship with my mother and husband- you will never know. I am

not the woman who came to this board a few years ago- and I am

finding the courage and strength to live a more authentic life for

me.

Thank you,

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " luckybluejay " <blue-

jay11@...> wrote:

>

> I want to tell you to be kind and gentle to yourself and with

yourself. You are a beautiful

> person, I can tell from your posts. You deserve all the kindness

and gentleness the world

> has to give. I believe that you can do what is best for you. We

are rooting for you!

>

> >

> > Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain

on

> > a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike

being

> > sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and

my

> > feelings.

> >

> > I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and

I

> > was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I

dyed

> > my nada's hair.

> >

> > It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging

blinds -

> > he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> > shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told

him he

> > was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I

asked

> > my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> > ladder.

> >

> > Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> > wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks

so

> > unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she

has

> > the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't

have to

> > find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me

how

> > dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I

am as

> > I daughter.

> >

> > She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> > and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> > blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was

to

> > her.

> > I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to

have a

> > bad relationship with my daughter.

> >

> > She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> > almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I

don't

> > because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> > everyone in my life including her. I understood that our

relationship

> > had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I

talk to

> > her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I

could do.

> >

> > Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> > I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to

dye

> > my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince

for me. "

> >

> > I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and

if

> > she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I

won't

> > play these games anymore with her.

> >

> > Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> > left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the

highlights.

> > I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with

nada-

> > I really have been listening to what everyone says in these

posts- I

> > did not back down and I also remained calm.

> >

> > I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> > cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I

definitely

> > know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and

emotionally

> > abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me

from my

> > bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> > inside of me.

> >

> > I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> > to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give

up on

> > me.

> >

> > Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> > need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in

a sick

> > way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't

a

> > good place for me.

> >

> > Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> > Malinda

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Malinda,

i have been reading your posts for a while now and I see so many similarities in

what you write to my own life and experiences.  And I really related to what you

wrote about maybe using one as a refuge from the other.  I think I have also

done that and learning about borderline and all of this new information has made

me aware that is exactly what I have done these past 30 years. Sometimes I think

I was looking to be rescued and could not accept that maybe my rescuer was 

exactly what I wanted to be rescued from in the first place. There is something

to be said about familiarity feeling safe, even if it may not be healthy. And

how would we have known it wasn't healthy or good for us if it was all we ever

knew.

You always offer such kind words and advice and I hope you are able to be so

kind to yourself.  I think the awareness gives us some inner strength because

now we know it isn't us and no matter what we do or say it isn't going to change

those people in our life.  We are the ONLY ones who can change .

Lorliz

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:44:41 AM

Subject: Re: Using a narcissist as a refuge from nada- any

input?

To ALL of YOU who responded to this post- your words of hope- love,

compassion and validation are just overwhelming to me.

You care because you can- you validate because you know the pain we

have all felt- you give hope because you know in that hope we grow

and move forward. What amazes me is how much love is shown in all of

these posts- my included- from people who were often deprived of

love- hope- compassion and validation- I carry a piece of all of you

on this board in my heart and soul.

You have given back to me so much that was lost or destroyed in my

relationship with my mother and husband- you will never know. I am

not the woman who came to this board a few years ago- and I am

finding the courage and strength to live a more authentic life for

me.

Thank you,

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com, " luckybluejay " <blue-

jay11@...> wrote:

>

> I want to tell you to be kind and gentle to yourself and with

yourself. You are a beautiful

> person, I can tell from your posts. You deserve all the kindness

and gentleness the world

> has to give. I believe that you can do what is best for you. We

are rooting for you!

>

> >

> > Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain

on

> > a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike

being

> > sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and

my

> > feelings.

> >

> > I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and

I

> > was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I

dyed

> > my nada's hair.

> >

> > It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging

blinds -

> > he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> > shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told

him he

> > was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I

asked

> > my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> > ladder.

> >

> > Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> > wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks

so

> > unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she

has

> > the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't

have to

> > find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me

how

> > dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I

am as

> > I daughter.

> >

> > She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> > and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> > blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was

to

> > her.

> > I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to

have a

> > bad relationship with my daughter.

> >

> > She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> > almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I

don't

> > because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> > everyone in my life including her. I understood that our

relationship

> > had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I

talk to

> > her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I

could do.

> >

> > Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> > I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to

dye

> > my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince

for me. "

> >

> > I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and

if

> > she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I

won't

> > play these games anymore with her.

> >

> > Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> > left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the

highlights.

> > I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with

nada-

> > I really have been listening to what everyone says in these

posts- I

> > did not back down and I also remained calm.

> >

> > I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> > cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I

definitely

> > know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and

emotionally

> > abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me

from my

> > bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> > inside of me.

> >

> > I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> > to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give

up on

> > me.

> >

> > Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> > need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in

a sick

> > way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't

a

> > good place for me.

> >

> > Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> > Malinda

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Malinda, I found this group only a few months ago but like you I feel

the love and support it offers. A few weeks ago I was in crises and

though I was on the edge of madness. In the past my choice in helping

myself and keeping myself safe were to go to the hospital or try and

get into a therapist office asap (not so easy in some areas, " Can you

come in a week from next Friday? " NO>>>> I need help now... and that

is what this place has give me. In less than a half hour I found

peace... I found a reality check, I found more help here than I did in

years of therapy. And it didn't cost $100 and hour...lol Thank you

all for being here, for your help and for your support.... it is

priceless!!!!! I just want to have you all over for dinner and give

you all hugs and thank each and everyone of you! I'm so sorry that we

all had to grow up the way we did, but who would have ever thought

that through all that pain and suffering we would be able to bring

peace and support to others...for if you had never had a nada you

would never be able to understand my challenges or help me make it

through the day. I make this pledge, I will do my best to help

in whatever way I can whenever I can.

With love and respect,

dawn

> > >

> > > Today was a long day, and I just don't totally get why I remain

> on

> > > a roller coaster ride with my emotions. As much as I dislike

> being

> > > sick- I enjoyed my time to reflect and just think of my life and

> my

> > > feelings.

> > >

> > > I was checking for apartments, looking for free legal advice and

> I

> > > was feeling so sure- and today I was back at work, and tonight I

> dyed

> > > my nada's hair.

> > >

> > > It happened while I was dying her hair my father was hanging

> blinds -

> > > he fell- no big deal, really. He was fine. My nada went crazy-

> > > shaking- screaming at my father- crying hysterically. She told

> him he

> > > was an a-hole, he never listens to her. The drama was so deep. I

> asked

> > > my dad if he was ok and he said he was fine- he fell off a step

> > > ladder.

> > >

> > > Then it started nada asking me why I got quiet and what was

> > > wrong with me. I told I get upset when she gets angry and speaks

> so

> > > unkindly. Of course she said that she will never change and she

> has

> > > the right to speak her mind. I told that is fine- but I don't

> have to

> > > find it acceptable. She then just like turned on me and told me

> how

> > > dare I be so judgemental with her. Then she told me how unkind I

> am as

> > > I daughter.

> > >

> > > She then told me it isn't too late- my daughter will turn on me,

> > > and be a horrible daughter too. I told I felt like I would feel

> > > blessed if my daughter was as good as a daughter to me as I was

> to

> > > her.

> > > I also said I really dislike when you tell you hope for me to

> have a

> > > bad relationship with my daughter.

> > >

> > > She started about how she is going to die soon and her life is

> > > almost over. I don't spend enough time with her. I explained - I

> don't

> > > because I am entitled to have a life and I have boundaries with

> > > everyone in my life including her. I understood that our

> relationship

> > > had changed but- I need to lead my own life. Reminding her I

> talk to

> > > her everyday- and see her 1-2 a week and that is the best I

> could do.

> > >

> > > Then she started crying and saying I just didn't understand- and

> > > I told her I probably didn't. Then she said- " You don't have to

> dye

> > > my hair again, and she could see this was a huge inconvenince

> for me. "

> > >

> > > I told her they were her words and that is not how I felt, and

> if

> > > she wanted me to stop dying her hair, then I would. I told I

> won't

> > > play these games anymore with her.

> > >

> > > Had dye not been on this woman's head, I would have probably

> > > left. There was other stuff- but this was just some of the

> highlights.

> > > I was emotionally spent when I got home. I stood my ground with

> nada-

> > > I really have been listening to what everyone says in these

> posts- I

> > > did not back down and I also remained calm.

> > >

> > > I came home to my husband who was being human tonight and my

> > > cats-who I love....and here in these moments I just fold- I

> definitely

> > > know my husband is a narcissist- no doubt- verbally and

> emotionally

> > > abusive too. This home with this man has been a refuge for me

> from my

> > > bp mother- but I can't do that anymore- I need to find my refuge

> > > inside of me.

> > >

> > > I am exhausted- so exhausted I cave and retreat

> > > to what I know- too tired to keep going, but then I know I give

> up on

> > > me.

> > >

> > > Maybe I need to get a better therapist- maybe I

> > > need to get more aggressive with these people- I just know I in

> a sick

> > > way maybe use the one as a refuge from the other- and that isn't

> a

> > > good place for me.

> > >

> > > Any advice so I get unstuck and keep moving forward...

> > > Malinda

> > >

> >

>