Re: perfectionism

[Guest guest]

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009 6:11:50 PM

Subject: Re: perfectionism

 It is also remarkable for me that I feel never happy or proud about such

achievements, the more perfect they are , the less happy I feel. That

year of my studies I actually felt guilty on top: how could I have

such high results when something so terrible had happened? Sure it

had to be true what I was almost reproached: I sure must be selfish,

cold, indifferent.

My perfectionism is waning though, and it sometimes feels liberating!

Katrina

Like you, I have never felt good about my achievments at university. How can I

with a nada? I have just started to study again, and I have absolutely no

confidence in myself - even though I got 88 and 90% in my first two assignments.

It feels as though I can nver fit in with fellow students - after seeing the

world from nadas point of vew all these years.

Recent Activity

*  19

New MembersVisit Your Group

Biz Resources

Y! Small Business

Articles, tools,

forms, and more.

Find helpful tips

for Moderators

on the Yahoo!

Groups team blog.

Everyday Wellness

on Yahoo! Groups

Find groups that will

help you stay fit.

..

Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a

look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox

[Guest guest]

My sister has OCD (another side effect of nada & fada) so her

house is scary-immaculate. She cries if her Welcome mat is off-

center. Good Lord. Thank God all I got was panic attacks &

depression. ;-)

My DH got to see the dark side of nada only once in person (but

he's gotten to hear it over the phone several times). Nada was

quite upset that I was moving permanently to NYC & when I was

at her house getting the remainder of my childhood belongings,

she threw a fit at how " messy " I'd made her house (her living room

had moving boxes in it)and " you've caused me to live in FILTH " (an

actual quote) and threw a full-fledged tantrum complete

with chest pains and shortness of breath, which miraculously

ceased when I picked up the phone and dialed 911 to say nada was

having a heart attack and could someone please send an ambulance.

(fake phone call ROFL) Then she started going off on how " ungrateful "

I was and telling my DH " you're welcome to her, she's a total bitch "

and " good luck buddy, she'll never stay faithful to you, she'll

screw everyone like her father does " and then she grabs my cat (who

she had held " hostage " for 3 months) and locks herself in her bedroom.

Leaving me & DH standing there not knowing whether to laugh or cry.

DH had to go into the bedroom and get the cat while I loaded boxes

into the car as fast as I could. She wouldn't have opened the door

for me or given me the cat. DH said he left her sobbing in the

bedroom about how she wanted to die and she had no one left and

no one loved her. I'll never forget him coming out of the house

and getting into the car with the cat in his arms. Even the cat

was looking around like " what the f***? " DH said OMG I never

imagined she was THAT bad in person and I'm like welcome to my

corner of Hell, dear.

DH brought that night up once when she was visiting here on the

annual pilgrimage. She said " I barely remember that night, I

was having a hormonal imbalance. I'm not responsible for what

happened that night. " How we wish we had kept the recording she

left on our voice mail saying she hoped our the plane we were on

the next morning would crash and burn with both of us and the

cat on it. AND THE CAT. Good God.

> > > > -- I can so relate to this!!! My nada was the same

way

> > > >but

> > > >then to add in some extra fun she would kick me out of the

> > > >kitchen or

> > > >tell me I couldn't do some other chore because it was ALL

WRONG

> > > >and

> > > >that I was a stupid idiot who couldn't figure out the most

> > > >basic task

> > > >she would then make it a point to tell everyone she knew (and

> > > >didn't

> > > >know, could be anyone she ran into) how spoiled I was because

I

> > > >didn't

> > > >do anything to help around the house. Funny how she never

> > > >mentioned

> > > >that I was told NOT to help anymore!!! I definitely have

> > > >struggled

> > > >with perfectionism and it makes me not try new things because

> > > >it has

> > > >been ingrained in me that I will fail, do it wrong, f it up,

> > > >etc etc

> > > >etc. On a positive side, my perfectionism has helped me

> > > >tremendously

> > > >in my job so I try to at least find the positive in that and

> > > >embrace

> > > >that part of it. I am working on not having to be perfect

from

> > > >the

> > > >first try at something. But I still have to consciously do

> > > >that, it's

> > > >not natural to me at all.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Katrina

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OMG. If that scene were in a movie ( " ...AND the cat! " ) it would be

funny. But I know that as its happening to you, it is infuriating and

sad and frustrating and embarrassing. I'm glad that both you and your

dh had a sense of humor about it, even while it was happening.

Nadas..

-Annie

> > > > > -- I can so relate to this!!! My nada was the same

> way

> > > > >but

> > > > >then to add in some extra fun she would kick me out of the

> > > > >kitchen or

> > > > >tell me I couldn't do some other chore because it was ALL

> WRONG

> > > > >and

> > > > >that I was a stupid idiot who couldn't figure out the most

> > > > >basic task

> > > > >she would then make it a point to tell everyone she knew (and

> > > > >didn't

> > > > >know, could be anyone she ran into) how spoiled I was because

> I

> > > > >didn't

> > > > >do anything to help around the house. Funny how she never

> > > > >mentioned

> > > > >that I was told NOT to help anymore!!! I definitely have

> > > > >struggled

> > > > >with perfectionism and it makes me not try new things because

> > > > >it has

> > > > >been ingrained in me that I will fail, do it wrong, f it up,

> > > > >etc etc

> > > > >etc. On a positive side, my perfectionism has helped me

> > > > >tremendously

> > > > >in my job so I try to at least find the positive in that and

> > > > >embrace

> > > > >that part of it. I am working on not having to be perfect

> from

> > > > >the

> > > > >first try at something. But I still have to consciously do

> > > > >that, it's

> > > > >not natural to me at all.

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Katrina

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > > > -- I can so relate to this!!! My nada was the same

> way

> > > > >but

> > > > >then to add in some extra fun she would kick me out of the

> > > > >kitchen or

> > > > >tell me I couldn't do some other chore because it was ALL

> WRONG

> > > > >and

> > > > >that I was a stupid idiot who couldn't figure out the most

> > > > >basic task

> > > > >she would then make it a point to tell everyone she knew (and

> > > > >didn't

> > > > >know, could be anyone she ran into) how spoiled I was because

> I

> > > > >didn't

> > > > >do anything to help around the house. Funny how she never

> > > > >mentioned

> > > > >that I was told NOT to help anymore!!! I definitely have

> > > > >struggled

> > > > >with perfectionism and it makes me not try new things because

> > > > >it has

> > > > >been ingrained in me that I will fail, do it wrong, f it up,

> > > > >etc etc

> > > > >etc. On a positive side, my perfectionism has helped me

> > > > >tremendously

> > > > >in my job so I try to at least find the positive in that and

> > > > >embrace

> > > > >that part of it. I am working on not having to be perfect

> from

> > > > >the

> > > > >first try at something. But I still have to consciously do

> > > > >that, it's

> > > > >not natural to me at all.

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Katrina

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

I think it's funny that she was holding your cat hostage! My mom has

grown attached to my dog and after a few manhattans will ask, " Do you

think the dog like me more than you? " To which I reply, " She's a dog.

She likes whoever is standing closest to the food. "

I think it kills her that someone, even a dog, would 'prefer' me to

her. As if life is some sort of competition. As for depression and

panic attacks, me too!

Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing that story.

[Guest guest]

>

> I have always been a perfectionist much to my own detriment.  I used

to think it was a good thing but I have learned it has interfered with

my life, my jobs, and my relationships with people.  I find if I can't

do something " perfectly " I won't attempt to do it at all.  I also have

found that when I do attempt to do something if it doesn't meet my

standards I am frustrated, angry and tend to belittle, criticize and

beat myself up with negative thoughts (I'm a loser, I can't do

anything right, I hate myself, etc.).  I believe the perfectionist in

me has kept me a prisoner of my own making, blocks my creative

instincts, keeps me from taking small risks, prevents me from seizing

opportunities and mostly has stifled my ability to really experience

and participate in life.  I work on trying

> not to be so hard on myself, giving myself pats on the back, and

being aware when I start with the negative thoughts about myself such

as I can't do ANYthing right and changing the thought to I do alot of

things right. It is work and a struggle but it's better than beating

myself down.  I've been beaten down so much most of my life somebody

has to stand up for me...why not let it be me?

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:37:17 AM

> Subject: perfectionism

>

>

>

>

> How many people here are perfectionists?

>

> <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/WTOAdultCh ildren1/message/

86877;_ylc= X3oDMTJy

> Mzk3bzhzBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE1BGdycElkAzI zNDI3NDUEZ3Jwc3B

JZAMxNzA1MDYxMjQ 4BG1zZ0lk

> Azg2ODc3BHNlYwNkbXN nBHNsawN2bXNnBHN 0aW1lAzEyMzE1Njc xODA-> Re:

Waiting to

> Exhale: Anxiety, Depression, and Waiting for the oth

>

> Posted by: " overtheborder1st "

> <mailto:overtheborder1st@ yahoo.com?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20Waiting%

20to%20Exhale%

> 3A%20%20Anxiety% 2C%20Depression% 2C%20and% 20Waiting% 20for%20the%

20oth>

> overtheborder1st@ yahoo.com <http://profiles. yahoo.com/

overtheborder1st>

> overtheborder1st

>

> Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:30 pm (PST)

>

> Hi everyone,

> I am not new to this group, been around for about a year but mostly

> just read and don't write now. I wanted everyone to know about a

> great book I have been reading and using with my therapist for months

> now. It is called Getting Through the Day strategies for Adults Hurt

> as Children and it is by J. Napier it is $16.95 but probably

> cheaper at an amazon site. I have decided to buy only from

> independent book sellers locally so pay top dollar but must say this

> one is well worth it. I have even written in it and underlined many

> things (my perfectionistic self does not usually allow this type of

> behavior insert smile here) This subject is addressed often in the

> book and I have gained so much insight. Look it up folks I place it

> in the top 2 for this subject the other being children of borderlines.

> Hang in there and hi to all the folks that have been around as long

as me.

> Namaste SueBee

>

> 1b.

>

> Randi Kreger

>

> 3120 S. Pennsylvania Ave.

>

> Milwaukee, WI 53207

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi,

Thanks for the info on the book. 

lorliz

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:20:32 AM

Subject: Re: perfectionism

>

> I have always been a perfectionist much to my own detriment.  I used

to think it was a good thing but I have learned it has interfered with

my life, my jobs, and my relationships with people.  I find if I can't

do something " perfectly " I won't attempt to do it at all.  I also have

found that when I do attempt to do something if it doesn't meet my

standards I am frustrated, angry and tend to belittle, criticize and

beat myself up with negative thoughts (I'm a loser, I can't do

anything right, I hate myself, etc.).  I believe the perfectionist in

me has kept me a prisoner of my own making, blocks my creative

instincts, keeps me from taking small risks, prevents me from seizing

opportunities and mostly has stifled my ability to really experience

and participate in life.  I work on trying

> not to be so hard on myself, giving myself pats on the back, and

being aware when I start with the negative thoughts about myself such

as I can't do ANYthing right and changing the thought to I do alot of

things right. It is work and a struggle but it's better than beating

myself down.  I've been beaten down so much most of my life somebody

has to stand up for me...why not let it be me?

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: Randi Kreger <RandiBPD@.. .>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:37:17 AM

> Subject: perfectionism

>

>

>

>

> How many people here are perfectionists?

>

> <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/WTOAdultCh ildren1/message/

86877;_ylc= X3oDMTJy

> Mzk3bzhzBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE1BGdycElkAzI zNDI3NDUEZ3Jwc3B

JZAMxNzA1MDYxMjQ 4BG1zZ0lk

> Azg2ODc3BHNlYwNkbXN nBHNsawN2bXNnBHN 0aW1lAzEyMzE1Njc xODA-> Re:

Waiting to

> Exhale: Anxiety, Depression, and Waiting for the oth

>

> Posted by: " overtheborder1st "

> <mailto:overthebord er1st@ yahoo.com?Subject= %20Re% 3A%20Waiting%

20to%20Exhale%

> 3A%20%20Anxiety% 2C%20Depression% 2C%20and% 20Waiting% 20for%20the%

20oth>

> overtheborder1st@ yahoo.com <http://profiles. yahoo.com/

overtheborder1st>

> overtheborder1st

>

> Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:30 pm (PST)

>

> Hi everyone,

> I am not new to this group, been around for about a year but mostly

> just read and don't write now. I wanted everyone to know about a

> great book I have been reading and using with my therapist for months

> now. It is called Getting Through the Day strategies for Adults Hurt

> as Children and it is by J. Napier it is $16.95 but probably

> cheaper at an amazon site. I have decided to buy only from

> independent book sellers locally so pay top dollar but must say this

> one is well worth it. I have even written in it and underlined many

> things (my perfectionistic self does not usually allow this type of

> behavior insert smile here) This subject is addressed often in the

> book and I have gained so much insight.. Look it up folks I place it

> in the top 2 for this subject the other being children of borderlines.

> Hang in there and hi to all the folks that have been around as long

as me.

> Namaste SueBee

>

> 1b.

>

> Randi Kreger

>

> 3120 S. Pennsylvania Ave.

>

> Milwaukee, WI 53207

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know what's truly weird? I honestly expect her hatefulness

toward me (and by extension my DH), but it totally infuriated

me that she wanted my cat dead. I'm sure if I brought that up

in a therapy session it would surface that I projected on the cat

my innocent child self that was never protected when I was younger.

It doesn't upset me that she wanted me to die, but it upset me

about the cat. This is the kind of warped worldview I grew up with.

> >

> > My sister has OCD (another side effect of nada & fada) so her

> > house is scary-immaculate. She cries if her Welcome mat is off-

> > center. Good Lord. Thank God all I got was panic attacks &

> > depression. ;-)

> >

> > My DH got to see the dark side of nada only once in person (but

> > he's gotten to hear it over the phone several times). Nada was

> > quite upset that I was moving permanently to NYC & when I was

> > at her house getting the remainder of my childhood belongings,

> > she threw a fit at how " messy " I'd made her house (her living room

> > had moving boxes in it)and " you've caused me to live in FILTH "

(an

> > actual quote) and threw a full-fledged tantrum complete

> > with chest pains and shortness of breath, which miraculously

> > ceased when I picked up the phone and dialed 911 to say nada was

> > having a heart attack and could someone please send an ambulance.

> > (fake phone call ROFL) Then she started going off on

how " ungrateful "

> > I was and telling my DH " you're welcome to her, she's a total

bitch "

> > and " good luck buddy, she'll never stay faithful to you, she'll

> > screw everyone like her father does " and then she grabs my cat

(who

> > she had held " hostage " for 3 months) and locks herself in her

bedroom.

> > Leaving me & DH standing there not knowing whether to laugh or

cry.

> >

> > DH had to go into the bedroom and get the cat while I loaded boxes

> > into the car as fast as I could. She wouldn't have opened the

door

> > for me or given me the cat. DH said he left her sobbing in the

> > bedroom about how she wanted to die and she had no one left and

> > no one loved her. I'll never forget him coming out of the house

> > and getting into the car with the cat in his arms. Even the cat

> > was looking around like " what the f***? " DH said OMG I never

> > imagined she was THAT bad in person and I'm like welcome to my

> > corner of Hell, dear.

> >

> > DH brought that night up once when she was visiting here on the

> > annual pilgrimage. She said " I barely remember that night, I

> > was having a hormonal imbalance. I'm not responsible for what

> > happened that night. " How we wish we had kept the recording she

> > left on our voice mail saying she hoped our the plane we were on

> > the next morning would crash and burn with both of us and the

> > cat on it. AND THE CAT. Good God.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yeah, nada does something similar. I volunteer at the ASPCA with

cats and she LOVES the show Animal Precinct on Animal Planet, so

of course she wanted to come with me to see the shelter. I should

have known better. She went through and as different fellow

volunteers & staff would say hi to me in passing, she'd practically

grab them and say " Everything knows about animals, she

learned from me! " OMG! They looked at her like she was nuts. She'd

start going on and on about how she feeds all the cats in the

neighborhood & how my cats like her better than they like me and

" they just get so excited when Grandma comes to visit " !

GRANDMA! Good Grief! LOL!

> I think it's funny that she was holding your cat hostage! My mom has

> grown attached to my dog and after a few manhattans will ask, " Do you

> think the dog like me more than you? " To which I reply, " She's a dog.

> She likes whoever is standing closest to the food. "

>

> I think it kills her that someone, even a dog, would 'prefer' me to

> her. As if life is some sort of competition. As for depression and

> panic attacks, me too!

>

> Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing that story.

>

[Guest guest]

It does not surprise me to read posts RE the nada feeling competitive

regarding their adult child's pets: seeking to make the pet prefer

nada, or seeing to wreak some revenge on their adult child by harming

their pet (or wishing harm on their pet.)

That truly disturbing behavior has come up for discussion in an

earlier thread in similar but worse context: members were relating how

their nadas would attempt some hostile passive-aggressive acts against

their grandchildren when the nadas were actually pissed off at their

adult children.

The two sides of the coin seem to be that on the one side the nadas

feel that weird competitiveness with their adult children and seek to

make their grandchildren prefer grandnada over mommy. On the other

side of the coin, when nada is thwarted/frustrated by their adult

child, nada will target the grandchildren for subtle or overt acts of

revenge.

BTW, RE an earlier post, I'm beginning to think that it would be a

great idea to always carry a recording device when visiting our nadas

so that the truly amazingly hateful, threatening, or bizarre things

that they say to us can be captured and taken with us to our therapy

sessions. Can you imagine how validating it would be to play a

30-minute non-stop verbal assault by nada to one's therapist?

Along those lines, think the world is ready for a

bpd/narcissist-themed reality TV show, like the one where child

predators are set up and captured. Or perhaps a documentary film

based on " nada cams " : lots of KOs with hidden cameras set up in their

homes, cars, or public places to record actual, real-life nada

interactions. I think what would become immediately apparent is 1.

how similar the nada behaviors are to each other, and 2. how

destructive and damaging bpd/narcissist behaviors are to their

children and grandchildren.

It totally creeps me out when I realize that my own mother has

regarded me as an enemy and a rival and an inanimate object, and has

taken pleasure from abusing me and my Sister in the guise of

" parenting " us when we were defenseless, developing children.

My type of nada should be prevented from raising children, they are

completely incapable of normal parenting.

-Annie

>

> You know what's truly weird? I honestly expect her hatefulness

> toward me (and by extension my DH), but it totally infuriated

> me that she wanted my cat dead. I'm sure if I brought that up

> in a therapy session it would surface that I projected on the cat

> my innocent child self that was never protected when I was younger.

>

> It doesn't upset me that she wanted me to die, but it upset me

> about the cat. This is the kind of warped worldview I grew up with.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I like Annie's reality show idea. Talk about raising awareness! Of

course, the nadas would claim their KOs " baited them " to get good TV,

but some get so out of pocket that the rational majority should see

through that. It would also be useful for the general public,

especially judges who handle child protection and custody issues, to

get a sense of what " mere " emotional abuse looks like and feels like

for the victim.

> >

> > You know what's truly weird? I honestly expect her hatefulness

> > toward me (and by extension my DH), but it totally infuriated

> > me that she wanted my cat dead. I'm sure if I brought that up

> > in a therapy session it would surface that I projected on the cat

> > my innocent child self that was never protected when I was

younger.

> >

> > It doesn't upset me that she wanted me to die, but it upset me

> > about the cat. This is the kind of warped worldview I grew up

with.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's very strange--I also link cats with childhood innocence. What

are the chances?

Randi Kreger

Randi @BPDCentral.com

www.BPDCentral.com

* NEW! Author, The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

Disorder: New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells

> > >

> > > My sister has OCD (another side effect of nada & fada) so her

> > > house is scary-immaculate. She cries if her Welcome mat is off-

> > > center. Good Lord. Thank God all I got was panic attacks &

> > > depression. ;-)

> > >

> > > My DH got to see the dark side of nada only once in person (but

> > > he's gotten to hear it over the phone several times). Nada was

> > > quite upset that I was moving permanently to NYC & when I was

> > > at her house getting the remainder of my childhood belongings,

> > > she threw a fit at how " messy " I'd made her house (her living

room

> > > had moving boxes in it)and " you've caused me to live in FILTH "

> (an

> > > actual quote) and threw a full-fledged tantrum complete

> > > with chest pains and shortness of breath, which miraculously

> > > ceased when I picked up the phone and dialed 911 to say nada was

> > > having a heart attack and could someone please send an

ambulance.

> > > (fake phone call ROFL) Then she started going off on

> how " ungrateful "

> > > I was and telling my DH " you're welcome to her, she's a total

> bitch "

> > > and " good luck buddy, she'll never stay faithful to you, she'll

> > > screw everyone like her father does " and then she grabs my cat

> (who

> > > she had held " hostage " for 3 months) and locks herself in her

> bedroom.

> > > Leaving me & DH standing there not knowing whether to laugh or

> cry.

> > >

> > > DH had to go into the bedroom and get the cat while I loaded

boxes

> > > into the car as fast as I could. She wouldn't have opened the

> door

> > > for me or given me the cat. DH said he left her sobbing in the

> > > bedroom about how she wanted to die and she had no one left and

> > > no one loved her. I'll never forget him coming out of the house

> > > and getting into the car with the cat in his arms. Even the cat

> > > was looking around like " what the f***? " DH said OMG I never

> > > imagined she was THAT bad in person and I'm like welcome to my

> > > corner of Hell, dear.

> > >

> > > DH brought that night up once when she was visiting here on the

> > > annual pilgrimage. She said " I barely remember that night, I

> > > was having a hormonal imbalance. I'm not responsible for what

> > > happened that night. " How we wish we had kept the recording she

> > > left on our voice mail saying she hoped our the plane we were on

> > > the next morning would crash and burn with both of us and the

> > > cat on it. AND THE CAT. Good God.

> > >

> > >

> > >

>