Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009 6:11:50 PM Subject: Re: perfectionism  It is also remarkable for me that I feel never happy or proud about such achievements, the more perfect they are , the less happy I feel. That year of my studies I actually felt guilty on top: how could I have such high results when something so terrible had happened? Sure it had to be true what I was almost reproached: I sure must be selfish, cold, indifferent. My perfectionism is waning though, and it sometimes feels liberating! Katrina Like you, I have never felt good about my achievments at university. How can I with a nada? I have just started to study again, and I have absolutely no confidence in myself - even though I got 88 and 90% in my first two assignments. It feels as though I can nver fit in with fellow students - after seeing the world from nadas point of vew all these years. Recent Activity *  19 New MembersVisit Your Group Biz Resources Y! Small Business Articles, tools, forms, and more. Find helpful tips for Moderators on the Yahoo! Groups team blog. Everyday Wellness on Yahoo! Groups Find groups that will help you stay fit. .. Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 My sister has OCD (another side effect of nada & fada) so her house is scary-immaculate. She cries if her Welcome mat is off- center. Good Lord. Thank God all I got was panic attacks & depression. ;-) My DH got to see the dark side of nada only once in person (but he's gotten to hear it over the phone several times). Nada was quite upset that I was moving permanently to NYC & when I was at her house getting the remainder of my childhood belongings, she threw a fit at how " messy " I'd made her house (her living room had moving boxes in it)and " you've caused me to live in FILTH " (an actual quote) and threw a full-fledged tantrum complete with chest pains and shortness of breath, which miraculously ceased when I picked up the phone and dialed 911 to say nada was having a heart attack and could someone please send an ambulance. (fake phone call ROFL) Then she started going off on how " ungrateful " I was and telling my DH " you're welcome to her, she's a total bitch " and " good luck buddy, she'll never stay faithful to you, she'll screw everyone like her father does " and then she grabs my cat (who she had held " hostage " for 3 months) and locks herself in her bedroom. Leaving me & DH standing there not knowing whether to laugh or cry. DH had to go into the bedroom and get the cat while I loaded boxes into the car as fast as I could. She wouldn't have opened the door for me or given me the cat. DH said he left her sobbing in the bedroom about how she wanted to die and she had no one left and no one loved her. I'll never forget him coming out of the house and getting into the car with the cat in his arms. Even the cat was looking around like " what the f***? " DH said OMG I never imagined she was THAT bad in person and I'm like welcome to my corner of Hell, dear. DH brought that night up once when she was visiting here on the annual pilgrimage. She said " I barely remember that night, I was having a hormonal imbalance. I'm not responsible for what happened that night. " How we wish we had kept the recording she left on our voice mail saying she hoped our the plane we were on the next morning would crash and burn with both of us and the cat on it. AND THE CAT. Good God. > > > > -- I can so relate to this!!! My nada was the same way > > > >but > > > >then to add in some extra fun she would kick me out of the > > > >kitchen or > > > >tell me I couldn't do some other chore because it was ALL WRONG > > > >and > > > >that I was a stupid idiot who couldn't figure out the most > > > >basic task > > > >she would then make it a point to tell everyone she knew (and > > > >didn't > > > >know, could be anyone she ran into) how spoiled I was because I > > > >didn't > > > >do anything to help around the house. Funny how she never > > > >mentioned > > > >that I was told NOT to help anymore!!! I definitely have > > > >struggled > > > >with perfectionism and it makes me not try new things because > > > >it has > > > >been ingrained in me that I will fail, do it wrong, f it up, > > > >etc etc > > > >etc. On a positive side, my perfectionism has helped me > > > >tremendously > > > >in my job so I try to at least find the positive in that and > > > >embrace > > > >that part of it. I am working on not having to be perfect from > > > >the > > > >first try at something. But I still have to consciously do > > > >that, it's > > > >not natural to me at all. > > > > > > -- > > > Katrina > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 OMG. If that scene were in a movie ( " ...AND the cat! " ) it would be funny. But I know that as its happening to you, it is infuriating and sad and frustrating and embarrassing. I'm glad that both you and your dh had a sense of humor about it, even while it was happening. Nadas.. -Annie > > > > > -- I can so relate to this!!! My nada was the same > way > > > > >but > > > > >then to add in some extra fun she would kick me out of the > > > > >kitchen or > > > > >tell me I couldn't do some other chore because it was ALL > WRONG > > > > >and > > > > >that I was a stupid idiot who couldn't figure out the most > > > > >basic task > > > > >she would then make it a point to tell everyone she knew (and > > > > >didn't > > > > >know, could be anyone she ran into) how spoiled I was because > I > > > > >didn't > > > > >do anything to help around the house. Funny how she never > > > > >mentioned > > > > >that I was told NOT to help anymore!!! I definitely have > > > > >struggled > > > > >with perfectionism and it makes me not try new things because > > > > >it has > > > > >been ingrained in me that I will fail, do it wrong, f it up, > > > > >etc etc > > > > >etc. On a positive side, my perfectionism has helped me > > > > >tremendously > > > > >in my job so I try to at least find the positive in that and > > > > >embrace > > > > >that part of it. I am working on not having to be perfect > from > > > > >the > > > > >first try at something. But I still have to consciously do > > > > >that, it's > > > > >not natural to me at all. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 > > > > > -- I can so relate to this!!! My nada was the same > way > > > > >but > > > > >then to add in some extra fun she would kick me out of the > > > > >kitchen or > > > > >tell me I couldn't do some other chore because it was ALL > WRONG > > > > >and > > > > >that I was a stupid idiot who couldn't figure out the most > > > > >basic task > > > > >she would then make it a point to tell everyone she knew (and > > > > >didn't > > > > >know, could be anyone she ran into) how spoiled I was because > I > > > > >didn't > > > > >do anything to help around the house. Funny how she never > > > > >mentioned > > > > >that I was told NOT to help anymore!!! I definitely have > > > > >struggled > > > > >with perfectionism and it makes me not try new things because > > > > >it has > > > > >been ingrained in me that I will fail, do it wrong, f it up, > > > > >etc etc > > > > >etc. On a positive side, my perfectionism has helped me > > > > >tremendously > > > > >in my job so I try to at least find the positive in that and > > > > >embrace > > > > >that part of it. I am working on not having to be perfect > from > > > > >the > > > > >first try at something. But I still have to consciously do > > > > >that, it's > > > > >not natural to me at all. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Katrina > > > > > > > > > > I think it's funny that she was holding your cat hostage! My mom has grown attached to my dog and after a few manhattans will ask, " Do you think the dog like me more than you? " To which I reply, " She's a dog. She likes whoever is standing closest to the food. " I think it kills her that someone, even a dog, would 'prefer' me to her. As if life is some sort of competition. As for depression and panic attacks, me too! Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing that story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 > > I have always been a perfectionist much to my own detriment. I used to think it was a good thing but I have learned it has interfered with my life, my jobs, and my relationships with people. I find if I can't do something " perfectly " I won't attempt to do it at all. I also have found that when I do attempt to do something if it doesn't meet my standards I am frustrated, angry and tend to belittle, criticize and beat myself up with negative thoughts (I'm a loser, I can't do anything right, I hate myself, etc.). I believe the perfectionist in me has kept me a prisoner of my own making, blocks my creative instincts, keeps me from taking small risks, prevents me from seizing opportunities and mostly has stifled my ability to really experience and participate in life. I work on trying > not to be so hard on myself, giving myself pats on the back, and being aware when I start with the negative thoughts about myself such as I can't do ANYthing right and changing the thought to I do alot of things right. It is work and a struggle but it's better than beating myself down. I've been beaten down so much most of my life somebody has to stand up for me...why not let it be me? > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:37:17 AM > Subject: perfectionism > > > > > How many people here are perfectionists? > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/WTOAdultCh ildren1/message/ 86877;_ylc= X3oDMTJy > Mzk3bzhzBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE1BGdycElkAzI zNDI3NDUEZ3Jwc3B JZAMxNzA1MDYxMjQ 4BG1zZ0lk > Azg2ODc3BHNlYwNkbXN nBHNsawN2bXNnBHN 0aW1lAzEyMzE1Njc xODA-> Re: Waiting to > Exhale: Anxiety, Depression, and Waiting for the oth > > Posted by: " overtheborder1st " > <mailto:overtheborder1st@ yahoo.com?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20Waiting% 20to%20Exhale% > 3A%20%20Anxiety% 2C%20Depression% 2C%20and% 20Waiting% 20for%20the% 20oth> > overtheborder1st@ yahoo.com <http://profiles. yahoo.com/ overtheborder1st> > overtheborder1st > > Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:30 pm (PST) > > Hi everyone, > I am not new to this group, been around for about a year but mostly > just read and don't write now. I wanted everyone to know about a > great book I have been reading and using with my therapist for months > now. It is called Getting Through the Day strategies for Adults Hurt > as Children and it is by J. Napier it is $16.95 but probably > cheaper at an amazon site. I have decided to buy only from > independent book sellers locally so pay top dollar but must say this > one is well worth it. I have even written in it and underlined many > things (my perfectionistic self does not usually allow this type of > behavior insert smile here) This subject is addressed often in the > book and I have gained so much insight. Look it up folks I place it > in the top 2 for this subject the other being children of borderlines. > Hang in there and hi to all the folks that have been around as long as me. > Namaste SueBee > > 1b. > > Randi Kreger > > 3120 S. Pennsylvania Ave. > > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 hi, Thanks for the info on the book. lorliz ________________________________ To: WTOAdultChildren1 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:20:32 AM Subject: Re: perfectionism > > I have always been a perfectionist much to my own detriment. I used to think it was a good thing but I have learned it has interfered with my life, my jobs, and my relationships with people. I find if I can't do something " perfectly " I won't attempt to do it at all. I also have found that when I do attempt to do something if it doesn't meet my standards I am frustrated, angry and tend to belittle, criticize and beat myself up with negative thoughts (I'm a loser, I can't do anything right, I hate myself, etc.). I believe the perfectionist in me has kept me a prisoner of my own making, blocks my creative instincts, keeps me from taking small risks, prevents me from seizing opportunities and mostly has stifled my ability to really experience and participate in life. I work on trying > not to be so hard on myself, giving myself pats on the back, and being aware when I start with the negative thoughts about myself such as I can't do ANYthing right and changing the thought to I do alot of things right. It is work and a struggle but it's better than beating myself down. I've been beaten down so much most of my life somebody has to stand up for me...why not let it be me? > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Randi Kreger <RandiBPD@.. .> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:37:17 AM > Subject: perfectionism > > > > > How many people here are perfectionists? > > <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/WTOAdultCh ildren1/message/ 86877;_ylc= X3oDMTJy > Mzk3bzhzBF9TAzk3MzU 5NzE1BGdycElkAzI zNDI3NDUEZ3Jwc3B JZAMxNzA1MDYxMjQ 4BG1zZ0lk > Azg2ODc3BHNlYwNkbXN nBHNsawN2bXNnBHN 0aW1lAzEyMzE1Njc xODA-> Re: Waiting to > Exhale: Anxiety, Depression, and Waiting for the oth > > Posted by: " overtheborder1st " > <mailto:overthebord er1st@ yahoo.com?Subject= %20Re% 3A%20Waiting% 20to%20Exhale% > 3A%20%20Anxiety% 2C%20Depression% 2C%20and% 20Waiting% 20for%20the% 20oth> > overtheborder1st@ yahoo.com <http://profiles. yahoo.com/ overtheborder1st> > overtheborder1st > > Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:30 pm (PST) > > Hi everyone, > I am not new to this group, been around for about a year but mostly > just read and don't write now. I wanted everyone to know about a > great book I have been reading and using with my therapist for months > now. It is called Getting Through the Day strategies for Adults Hurt > as Children and it is by J. Napier it is $16.95 but probably > cheaper at an amazon site. I have decided to buy only from > independent book sellers locally so pay top dollar but must say this > one is well worth it. I have even written in it and underlined many > things (my perfectionistic self does not usually allow this type of > behavior insert smile here) This subject is addressed often in the > book and I have gained so much insight.. Look it up folks I place it > in the top 2 for this subject the other being children of borderlines. > Hang in there and hi to all the folks that have been around as long as me. > Namaste SueBee > > 1b. > > Randi Kreger > > 3120 S. Pennsylvania Ave. > > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 You know what's truly weird? I honestly expect her hatefulness toward me (and by extension my DH), but it totally infuriated me that she wanted my cat dead. I'm sure if I brought that up in a therapy session it would surface that I projected on the cat my innocent child self that was never protected when I was younger. It doesn't upset me that she wanted me to die, but it upset me about the cat. This is the kind of warped worldview I grew up with. > > > > My sister has OCD (another side effect of nada & fada) so her > > house is scary-immaculate. She cries if her Welcome mat is off- > > center. Good Lord. Thank God all I got was panic attacks & > > depression. ;-) > > > > My DH got to see the dark side of nada only once in person (but > > he's gotten to hear it over the phone several times). Nada was > > quite upset that I was moving permanently to NYC & when I was > > at her house getting the remainder of my childhood belongings, > > she threw a fit at how " messy " I'd made her house (her living room > > had moving boxes in it)and " you've caused me to live in FILTH " (an > > actual quote) and threw a full-fledged tantrum complete > > with chest pains and shortness of breath, which miraculously > > ceased when I picked up the phone and dialed 911 to say nada was > > having a heart attack and could someone please send an ambulance. > > (fake phone call ROFL) Then she started going off on how " ungrateful " > > I was and telling my DH " you're welcome to her, she's a total bitch " > > and " good luck buddy, she'll never stay faithful to you, she'll > > screw everyone like her father does " and then she grabs my cat (who > > she had held " hostage " for 3 months) and locks herself in her bedroom. > > Leaving me & DH standing there not knowing whether to laugh or cry. > > > > DH had to go into the bedroom and get the cat while I loaded boxes > > into the car as fast as I could. She wouldn't have opened the door > > for me or given me the cat. DH said he left her sobbing in the > > bedroom about how she wanted to die and she had no one left and > > no one loved her. I'll never forget him coming out of the house > > and getting into the car with the cat in his arms. Even the cat > > was looking around like " what the f***? " DH said OMG I never > > imagined she was THAT bad in person and I'm like welcome to my > > corner of Hell, dear. > > > > DH brought that night up once when she was visiting here on the > > annual pilgrimage. She said " I barely remember that night, I > > was having a hormonal imbalance. I'm not responsible for what > > happened that night. " How we wish we had kept the recording she > > left on our voice mail saying she hoped our the plane we were on > > the next morning would crash and burn with both of us and the > > cat on it. AND THE CAT. Good God. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yeah, nada does something similar. I volunteer at the ASPCA with cats and she LOVES the show Animal Precinct on Animal Planet, so of course she wanted to come with me to see the shelter. I should have known better. She went through and as different fellow volunteers & staff would say hi to me in passing, she'd practically grab them and say " Everything knows about animals, she learned from me! " OMG! They looked at her like she was nuts. She'd start going on and on about how she feeds all the cats in the neighborhood & how my cats like her better than they like me and " they just get so excited when Grandma comes to visit " ! GRANDMA! Good Grief! LOL! > I think it's funny that she was holding your cat hostage! My mom has > grown attached to my dog and after a few manhattans will ask, " Do you > think the dog like me more than you? " To which I reply, " She's a dog. > She likes whoever is standing closest to the food. " > > I think it kills her that someone, even a dog, would 'prefer' me to > her. As if life is some sort of competition. As for depression and > panic attacks, me too! > > Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing that story. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 It does not surprise me to read posts RE the nada feeling competitive regarding their adult child's pets: seeking to make the pet prefer nada, or seeing to wreak some revenge on their adult child by harming their pet (or wishing harm on their pet.) That truly disturbing behavior has come up for discussion in an earlier thread in similar but worse context: members were relating how their nadas would attempt some hostile passive-aggressive acts against their grandchildren when the nadas were actually pissed off at their adult children. The two sides of the coin seem to be that on the one side the nadas feel that weird competitiveness with their adult children and seek to make their grandchildren prefer grandnada over mommy. On the other side of the coin, when nada is thwarted/frustrated by their adult child, nada will target the grandchildren for subtle or overt acts of revenge. BTW, RE an earlier post, I'm beginning to think that it would be a great idea to always carry a recording device when visiting our nadas so that the truly amazingly hateful, threatening, or bizarre things that they say to us can be captured and taken with us to our therapy sessions. Can you imagine how validating it would be to play a 30-minute non-stop verbal assault by nada to one's therapist? Along those lines, think the world is ready for a bpd/narcissist-themed reality TV show, like the one where child predators are set up and captured. Or perhaps a documentary film based on " nada cams " : lots of KOs with hidden cameras set up in their homes, cars, or public places to record actual, real-life nada interactions. I think what would become immediately apparent is 1. how similar the nada behaviors are to each other, and 2. how destructive and damaging bpd/narcissist behaviors are to their children and grandchildren. It totally creeps me out when I realize that my own mother has regarded me as an enemy and a rival and an inanimate object, and has taken pleasure from abusing me and my Sister in the guise of " parenting " us when we were defenseless, developing children. My type of nada should be prevented from raising children, they are completely incapable of normal parenting. -Annie > > You know what's truly weird? I honestly expect her hatefulness > toward me (and by extension my DH), but it totally infuriated > me that she wanted my cat dead. I'm sure if I brought that up > in a therapy session it would surface that I projected on the cat > my innocent child self that was never protected when I was younger. > > It doesn't upset me that she wanted me to die, but it upset me > about the cat. This is the kind of warped worldview I grew up with. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I like Annie's reality show idea. Talk about raising awareness! Of course, the nadas would claim their KOs " baited them " to get good TV, but some get so out of pocket that the rational majority should see through that. It would also be useful for the general public, especially judges who handle child protection and custody issues, to get a sense of what " mere " emotional abuse looks like and feels like for the victim. > > > > You know what's truly weird? I honestly expect her hatefulness > > toward me (and by extension my DH), but it totally infuriated > > me that she wanted my cat dead. I'm sure if I brought that up > > in a therapy session it would surface that I projected on the cat > > my innocent child self that was never protected when I was younger. > > > > It doesn't upset me that she wanted me to die, but it upset me > > about the cat. This is the kind of warped worldview I grew up with. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 That's very strange--I also link cats with childhood innocence. What are the chances? Randi Kreger Randi @BPDCentral.com www.BPDCentral.com * NEW! Author, The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells > > > > > > My sister has OCD (another side effect of nada & fada) so her > > > house is scary-immaculate. She cries if her Welcome mat is off- > > > center. Good Lord. Thank God all I got was panic attacks & > > > depression. ;-) > > > > > > My DH got to see the dark side of nada only once in person (but > > > he's gotten to hear it over the phone several times). Nada was > > > quite upset that I was moving permanently to NYC & when I was > > > at her house getting the remainder of my childhood belongings, > > > she threw a fit at how " messy " I'd made her house (her living room > > > had moving boxes in it)and " you've caused me to live in FILTH " > (an > > > actual quote) and threw a full-fledged tantrum complete > > > with chest pains and shortness of breath, which miraculously > > > ceased when I picked up the phone and dialed 911 to say nada was > > > having a heart attack and could someone please send an ambulance. > > > (fake phone call ROFL) Then she started going off on > how " ungrateful " > > > I was and telling my DH " you're welcome to her, she's a total > bitch " > > > and " good luck buddy, she'll never stay faithful to you, she'll > > > screw everyone like her father does " and then she grabs my cat > (who > > > she had held " hostage " for 3 months) and locks herself in her > bedroom. > > > Leaving me & DH standing there not knowing whether to laugh or > cry. > > > > > > DH had to go into the bedroom and get the cat while I loaded boxes > > > into the car as fast as I could. She wouldn't have opened the > door > > > for me or given me the cat. DH said he left her sobbing in the > > > bedroom about how she wanted to die and she had no one left and > > > no one loved her. I'll never forget him coming out of the house > > > and getting into the car with the cat in his arms. Even the cat > > > was looking around like " what the f***? " DH said OMG I never > > > imagined she was THAT bad in person and I'm like welcome to my > > > corner of Hell, dear. > > > > > > DH brought that night up once when she was visiting here on the > > > annual pilgrimage. She said " I barely remember that night, I > > > was having a hormonal imbalance. I'm not responsible for what > > > happened that night. " How we wish we had kept the recording she > > > left on our voice mail saying she hoped our the plane we were on > > > the next morning would crash and burn with both of us and the > > > cat on it. AND THE CAT. Good God. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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