Re: 911:: Cell Phones and 9-1-1

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/2003 12:36:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

mjwallach@... writes:

> Consumer Reports has an interesting article, " Will your cell phone reach

> 911? "

>

>

Hi all, the other day it started to snow lightly and it was covering an

already light ice on the highways. Making driving xtremely dangerous. But,

of course, like only less than 50% of the motorists have any clue how to

drive in inclement weather. While coming back from a job, I noticed a 50

car pileup . I tried to dial 911 from my cell phone and it rang and rang and

rang. No answer. I guess this 911 was overwhelmed . Then I tried to call the

police in a local town, but my verizon phone wouldn't allow outgoing calls.

I guess Verizon wireless system was overwhelmed,too

Now what would happen in a real emergency if you couldn't get 911 . I

understand that there exists an override code that when you dial it before

your outgoing phone number, you will be able to get thru. But I understand

only those who are like first responders, have that code. Can anyone verify

this, and has anyone else ever called 911 and got no answer. I live in

northern NJ

Thanks

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 10:48:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,

wsblevins@... writes:

> There would be a lot less annoyances in the comctr for one.

>

>

Now that is a dumb answer. 911 was set up explicitly to handle emergency

calls. With terrorism rampant, the need for 911 to function is imperative.

Many times I as an emergency locksmith get what might be called annyoying

calls, but we strive to be polite and help the public.

That my friend is your function - to serve You need an attitude adjustment.

The above was meant as constructive criticism. I know things get crazy in

dispatch,

but if you can't handle it. There is always the door.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 11:38:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,

kc8fcw@... writes:

> Hold on there, Mr BPLocsmith, that was a little public service humor by ws.

> Something that the average member of the public will never

> understand. But blasting him with the response you did was uncalled for.

> Unless you have walked in

> the shoes dont complain about the road. Have you ever worked as a public

> safety employee? Just

> my thoughts and I hope I am not overreacting

>

Hi all, my thoughts were meant as constructive criticism. Before being a

'smith, I worked for the NYCPD,MTS, patrol. That definitely is pubic service.

Secondly, as an emergency locksmith, I deal with the public all the

time.Again public service.

No, I have never worked in 911 dispatch. I can imagine it gets hectic there.

But either you are understaffed , or the workers are not working

efficiently.

Bottom line, there is no reason why when a civilian dials 911, for

thirty-forty times, someone does not answer the phone. 911 was conceived for

emergency calls. The fact that once in a while a non emergency call come in

is not relevant . The one 911 call that is not answered may well make the

difference between life and death. When I road patrol, and we got a 13 or

something similar we would always respond forthwith. And yes many of the

emergency calls were bogus. But we responded to each call. The same for

911. Each and every call should and must be answered.

Just my thoughts.

When I get a call with a baby locked in a car, I respond forthwith. Sometimes

the call is phony. But it is my job as an emergency locksmith to respond.

I love my job. I love helping people. Hopefully you all can say the same

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 1:03:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dsptchmom@... writes:

> Actually Bill's was a good answer because you see, most calls to 9-1-1 are

> FAR from being an emergency. I really don't see where you can compare

> being a locksmith to being an emergency dispatcher.

>

>

Hi all, my ex who happens to be a 911 dispatcher called me landline and gave

me heck. That nite, the 911 system just became overloaded. Everyone, says

she, was doing their job. It's just an inherent flaw in my area's 911

system, which ,obviously, needs to be rectified, with $$$$$$

I apologize to you all out there who I know do the best you can. With more

needed $$$, enters politics. Another story.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

>Now what would happen in a real emergency if you couldn't get 911 .

There would be a lot less annoyances in the comctr for one.

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[Guest guest]

<<>Now what would happen in a real emergency if you couldn't get 911 .

There would be a lot less annoyances in the comctr for one.>>

Don't hold back, tell us what you really think.........................thanks

for the chuckle!

[Guest guest]

>

>Reply-To: 911console

>To: <911console >

>Subject: RE: 911:: Cell Phones and 9-1-1

>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:12:41 -0800

>

><<>Now what would happen in a real emergency if you couldn't get 911 .

>

>

>There would be a lot less annoyances in the comctr for one.>>

>

>

>

>Don't hold back, tell us what you really

>think.........................thanks for the chuckle!

You're welcome.

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[Guest guest]

BPLocsmith@... blessed us with his pearls of wisdom by scribing the

following:

>Many times I as an emergency locksmith get what might be called >annyoying

You sure do.

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[Guest guest]

>

>Reply-To: 911console

>To: <911console >

>Subject: Re: 911:: Cell Phones and 9-1-1

>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:37:07 -0500

>Have you ever worked as a public

>safety employee? Just

Al, my guess is probably not and if he does it has been for a very short

time. Just consider the source and don't get too upset. I certainly don't

get my undies in a wad over it.

Bill

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[Guest guest]

>Bottom line, there is no reason why when a civilian dials 911, for

thirty-forty times,<

Ah but yes.. there are reasons, and you just mentioned them.

Understaffed... Overworked... Far too many non-emergency calls, ....causing

real emergencies to be missed.

>While coming back from a job, I noticed a 50

car pileup . <

(how many injuries, and how severe were they in the accident you were

reporting... The dispatchers will need that information) (If you stopped

to assist, your information on the injuries can be invaluable to the

dispatchers)

And probably more than 25 of those people involved in the accident

had a cell phone, and were calling.. Along with many of the

passersby (including yourself)..

A simple property damage accident, on a busy highway can send

many... many... calls to a 9-1-1 center.... When in truth no EMERGENCY

exist.

Add to this....

>the other day it started to snow lightly and it was covering an

already light ice on the highways. Making driving xtremely dangerous.<

So... 500 more people will pick up their cell phone, dial 9-1-1 and

ask what the road conditions are..... further tying up emergency lines...

Believe me... If a true emergency exist, the call will get to a responding

center... It will be taken care of...

They got there long before 9-1-1... They got there way before cell

phones...

And somewhere at the end of that line professional 9-1-1 dispatchers are

trying to take care of ALL those calls, emergency and non-emergency.

They're very busy, and they know what they're doing.

So sometimes.... they burn it off... with a little humor like...

>There would be a lot less annoyances in the comctr for one.>>

Weintraut

[Guest guest]

I gotta agree there, if i called 911 30 times with no

answer i'd be talking to whoever is in charge in that PSAP to find out whats

wrong and maybe talking to a lot of others as well. Thank God that this is

not

a common problem. However it shouldnt be a problem at all not to that

extent.

Al

Bay Co MI 911

Severly Snipped

Original Message

> Bottom line, there is no reason why when a civilian dials 911, for

> thirty-forty times, someone does not answer the phone.

[Guest guest]

> Now that is a dumb answer. 911 was set up explicitly to handle emergency

> calls.

Actually Bill's was a good answer because you see, most calls to 9-1-1 are FAR

from being an emergency. I really don't see where you can compare being a

locksmith to being an emergency dispatcher.

As for the original question, from the person trying to report a 50 car

accident. I know of NO " secret " code to override a busy cell site. When cell

sites were overloaded during the Columbine shooting, the cell companies brought

in portable sites to make sure LE and EMS had signals.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 11:10:18 AM Central Standard Time,

BPLocsmith@... writes:

> Bottom line, there is no reason why when a civilian dials 911, for

> thirty-forty times, someone does not answer the phone. 911 was conceived

> for

> emergency calls. The fact that once in a while a non emergency call come in

> is not relevant . The one 911 call that is not answered may well make the

> difference between life and death. When I road patrol, and we got a 13 or

> something similar we would always respond forthwith. And yes many of the

> emergency calls were bogus. But we responded to each call. The same for

> 911. Each and every call should and must be answered.

>

Once a person dials 911 they need to stay on the line. You should not get a

busy signal on 911 but it may have a ring unless the comm center the 911 call

went into has a recording asking the caller to hold for the next available

call taker. By calling 34 times you were putting yourself at the end of the

line to be answered each time. Normally when this happens and the call taker

is busy, they can call back hang ups only when they get an opportunity

between calls. Your comments and questions showed that you do not know how

911 actually works. Which means you are obviously not a call taker or

dispatcher. Which, I thought, was who this list serve was for.

The sense of humor that exists in the comm centers is dry and would not be

funny to the public. It is our way of coping with the stress and is in every

comm center around the world. Does it mean we don't care or do not give

anything but the best? Just the opposit, it allows us to keep our sanity so

that we can give our best always. Your lecture on service is aimed at the

choir.

So, the next time you call 911 and do not receive an answer, you can assume

that the comm center is kicking butt, hold on and wait your turn. The call

taker/dispatcher will get to you quicker than humanly possible because that

is what we do.

Doreen Draper

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 6:10:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

doreendraper@... writes:

> Doreen Draper

>

>

Hi Doreen, I dialed 911 and let it ring about 40 times. I did not_ make

40 successive calls. After a couple of minutes I dialed 911 again, and the

same thing, the phone rang and no answer. Just this am, I dialed 911 and the

phone rang 10 times, with no answer I then hung up. Obviously in my little

part of the work, the 911 system needs serious upgrading.

Hang in.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 3:37:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nc911@... writes:

> After all that rambling, what I am trying to say is may not be the people at

> the agency, but the administration above them that don't know or don't

> care.

> I advise people (privately) that if you want protection from the police in

> our county, you had better own a gun and know how to use it

Hi, truer words were never spoken . Example in NYC Mayor Bloomberg wants to

lay off cops . He doesn't give a hoot because he has about 20 bodyguards.

You would think with all the high tech stuff around, 911 can not be made to

work better. You are also true that the 911 system is much abused. What is

the answer.

More dispatchers. And better pay and working conditions for the dispatchers.

I'm sure my ex agrees with this.

[Guest guest]

BPLocsmith@... scribbled:

>No, I have never worked in 911 dispatch.

Exactly..

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 6:31:11 PM Central Standard Time,

BPLocsmith@... writes:

> Hi Doreen, I dialed 911 and let it ring about 40 times. I did not_ make

> 40 successive calls. After a couple of minutes I dialed 911 again, and the

> same thing, the phone rang and no answer. Just this am, I dialed 911 and

> the

> phone rang 10 times, with no answer I then hung up. Obviously in my

> little

> part of the work, the 911 system needs serious upgrading.

>

> Hang in.

>

Your message indicated that you believed the service by the personnel was not

wholehearted. We don't do this for love or money and many wouldn't do it for

love or money. We give everyone the better service than what is possible with

the limitions in equipment and manpower. The dispatcher deserves your praise

not your opinion on how to do their job better.

If you want the problem solved make yourself informed on the issues and help

APCO and NENA get them solved. So many of the problems in the comm center are

about money. The dispatchers do such a damn good job with little or nothing

that the ones with the purse strings don't pay attention to the needs.

Talk to your state senator and representative..........push for good

legislation and vote.

And once you dial 911 don't hang up!

Doreen Draper

[Guest guest]

BP ... My suggestion to you would be, before you criticize or pass judgement on

a situation perhaps you should review all the facts.

>No, I have never worked in 911 dispatch. I can imagine it gets hectic there.

>But either you are understaffed , or the workers are not working

>efficiently.

Perhaps you should talk to your local dispatch center and see if you can spend

an evening or two observing. This might provide you a better insight in reality

and facts. I would venture to say most centers are like mine and are short

staffed. No matter how hard we try to catch up, just as we reach full staffing

someone leaves.

>The fact that once in a while a non emergency call come in

>is not relevant .

The fact is the majority of our 911 calls ARE non-emergency. We are very

proactive in trying to educate our citizens when to call 911, but what they deem

an emergency (They just returned home from work and found their home broken

into) and what we deem an emergency (injury accident, shootings, etc.) are

different.

>The one 911 call that is not answered may well make the

>difference between life and death. And yes many of the

>emergency calls were bogus. But we responded to each call. The same for

>911. Each and every call should and must be answered.

Once again, maybe you should spend some time in your local dispatch center and

see for yourself. We try our best to respond to EACH AND EVERY CALL that comes

in. But in our case 1 dispatcher per 25000 population (not counting the out of

towners who come in) per shift, I think during certain situations, you should be

able to do the math, 911 centers can be overwhelmed. Despite that fact I think

you will find a bunch of dedicated employees doing their best to respond to each

and every call.

If you think you can do better and fix the problem, then apply at one of your

local 911 centers, I am guessing they have an opening.

>Just my thoughts.

>I love my job. I love helping people. Hopefully you all can say the same

These are my thoughts and Yes I love my job.

[Guest guest]

Al from Bay Co, MI " I gotta agree there, if I called 911 30 times with no

answer I'd be talking to whoever is in charge in that PSAP to find out

what's

wrong and maybe talking to a lot of others as well. Thank God that this is

not a common problem. However it shouldn't be a problem at all not to that

extent. "

I am near a large metropolitan area, and I have had numerous experiences of

transferring a 911 call to them, and it ringing 30 times. Today's budget

restraints are being felt everywhere, and they have a hiring freeze which is

kept the number of people down in the center. I don't blame the actual

dispatchers, but feel it is more of a management problem that they are not

aware of the problem. The news media did a story about how long it took

officers to get to the call from the time they were dispatched until they

arrived. What the news media missed is that the person had to wait 5+

minutes for the 911 line to be answered, called entered and put into queue.

I had a call one night we had someone kick in a door, come in and assault a

female there, and left. We sent officers to stand by and the sound of their

sirens scared off the assailant. The officers had me call after 45 minutes

to find where the other agencies officers were and the call still hadn't

been dispatched due to high incident count that evening.

After all that rambling, what I am trying to say is may not be the people at

the agency, but the administration above them that don't know or don't care.

I advise people (privately) that if you want protection from the police in

our county, you had better own a gun and know how to use it. Response time

is up to a 1/2 hour using lights and siren just because they(the county

commissioners here) needed a 2nd park and recreation director and the job

was for a friend of a political friend, and can't put any more officers on

the road due to lack of funds.

Sorry for the rambling.

Larew

nc911@...

Troutman, NC

Cornelius/Huntersville/son/son College Police Communications &

Iredell County Emergency Communications

www.nc911.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2003 9:13:27 PM Central Standard Time,

jtkjones@... writes:

> Not to mention 911 is not available in every area of the country.

>

> Jim

> Mr 911

> TriCom

>

If not right now it should be in - in a very short time; at least basic 911.

FCC 5th order deadline was 9-11-02. Missouri is almost all on board and I

think we had the most counties without any 911.

Doreen Draper

[Guest guest]

I don't know what county you're in and I don't remember seeing anything on

the news in NJ about a 50 car pileup....but, here's the web page for the

911 centers in NJ and who you would contact about your complaint.

http://www.state.nj.us/911/county911.html

I'm surprised that the call wasn't transferred to another PSAP after

ringing a number of times. If the county here becomes overloaded for

whatever reason, the call then rings into a backup.

I'm curious too about the fact that you just didn't dial the operator after

not receiving a response? It may be old fashioned, but it still works.

I don't think that fault lies with the 911 center and or your the local PD,

not all PDs are PSAPs. If you travel the same area every day, maybe you

might want to keep a small notebook handy with the 7 digit numbers of your

local PD in there. Although 911 can be a wonderful system, in some areas,

it's becomes for *some* calls, a screening system for the PD and dispatch

of calls is actually delayed by having to speak to a call taker first and

then being transferred to a dispatcher/comm officer/telecommunicator (so

many titles these days!) at the PD where the call is actually going to be

handled. I think there's a general misconception amongst the public, that

when they call 911, their call is going to be immediately dispatched. We

run into a problem constantly with people telling us that " they just told

the other person all that " . Unfortunately, it isn't always clear what the

call taker has asked and their criteria for dispatching a call may not be

the same as the agency who will actually be handling the call. Since we

all have to follow our own SOPs, questions are often asked over again and I

know that can be frustrating. But, you didn't even get that far, so like I

said, if you'd like to get some answers, trying contacting the appropriate

person from the web page provided.

Annmarie aka Mickey

wench@... ~ mickeym@...

http://www.geocities.com/mickeyshomepage

[Guest guest]

are you on a cell phone or regular phone when you call 911 ?

Jim

[Guest guest]

At 09:12 PM 1/11/03 -0600, you wrote:

>Not to mention 911 is not available in every area of the country.

Another good point

Annmarie aka Mickey

wench@... ~ mickeym@...

http://www.geocities.com/mickeyshomepage

[Guest guest]

>

>Reply-To: 911console

>To: 911console

>Subject: Re: 911:: Cell Phones and 9-1-1

>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:41:26 -0500

>

>I don't know what county you're in and I don't remember seeing anything on

>the news in NJ about a 50 car pileup..

You noticed that too, eh? Mickey, can you say " troll " ?

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[Guest guest]

Most populated areas do have cell service, of course. But e.g., lots of

sparsely-populated areas in the west, along state highways & county roads,

and even stretches of interstates, have no cell coverage for miles and miles

and miles.

One of the characteristics of 800-Mhz - where cellphones are - is that the

signals don't travel nearly the distances that UHF & VHF go. Hence

blanketing these areas would require many hundreds of expensive " repeater "

sites for only occasional use. I suppose satellites could eventually fill

in the gaps... eventually.

Harry

Re: 911:: Cell Phones and 9-1-1

> In a message dated 1/11/2003 9:13:27 PM Central Standard Time,

> jtkjones@... writes:

>

>

> > Not to mention 911 is not available in every area of the country.

> >

> > Jim

> > Mr 911

> > TriCom

> >

>

> If not right now it should be in - in a very short time; at least basic

911.

> FCC 5th order deadline was 9-11-02. Missouri is almost all on board and I

> think we had the most counties without any 911.

>

> Doreen Draper