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RE: 911:: Forced OT

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In a message dated 12/29/02 1:24:50 AM Central Standard Time,

mickeym@... writes:

> I was wondering what policies are in effect in regard to forced overtime in

> your depts?

It's agreed to when you are hired or you're not hired.

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At 12:08 AM 12/29/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Everyone in our center (except shift supervisors and

>management) has two days a week when they can be

>forced to work OT. There is a list for each day. If

>you work OT, forced or voluntary, on any day, you get

>moved to the bottom of the list for both days. When

>it comes time to force someone, whoever is at the top

>of the list is the unlucky person.

Thanks. How many consecutive hours can they force you?

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At 08:22 AM 12/29/02 +0000, you wrote:

>do you have part time help? and if so, are they subject to the forced ot

>requirements also?

In our dept the part-times can't be forced, only the full timers. Primarily

because the p/t-ers are call takers only. We only have a couple of actual

part-timers and they, like the call takers, are limited to 20 hours a week.

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At 03:50 AM 12/29/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Forced OT could happen - If someone is sick and no relief - but every

>step is donr to make sure that person is reliefed. We work 10 hour days

>and 14 hour nights , so there is no way to do a double per sae

Sounds like it's not a common occurrence for you, that's great :)

Unfortunately, we thought we were done with forces, but since we are down

by 1/2 the manpower, they have come up again. We're on an 8 hr shift

schedule and we have a gentleman's agreement that we aren't supposed to be

forced more than 4 hours, but 8 is the norm now it seems.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, thanks.

Annmarie ~ mickeym@... ~ http://www.geocities.com/mickeyshomepage

" Experience is the worst teacher. It always gives the test first and the

instruction afterward. " ~ lin, Poor 's Almanac

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At 03:54 AM 12/29/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Forced OT in my opinion is not a bad thing as long as it is not abused.

I think forced OT is horrible. We went through a period of time many years

back when you didn't know if you'd be going home or not at the end of your

shift. I had 40 hours of forced OT in less than a month. I know work

anywhere from 16-24 hours over in a two week period, by choice. That's a 6

day week and then some. It's what a few of us have been doing now for

months. I'm on vacation right now and I was just told that forcing has come

back into effect. We base the force not on seniority, but on overtime

worked, the more you work, the less chance you have of being forced. Even

if you are a senior, if you have less time than a junior on that shift, you

have to stay. I just hate to see us going back to this. 4 hours is one

thing, you can possibly make arrangements, but constant 8 hours forces are

ridiculous. It's not only an inconvenience to the person forced, but to

their family, babysitters, etc. I also don't see that person as being in a

particularly good state of mind to be dealing with the public and the road.

I'm hoping to find some alternative to present.

I don't know of a single one of us that would balk at emergency forcing,

we've experienced that on more than one occasion and everyone comes

together and does what needs to be done. But, vacation, personal time etc

that has been on the books for months and not covered, that should have

been dealt with in a better manner.

Annmarie aka Mickey

wench@... ~ mickeym@...

http://www.geocities.com/mickeyshomepage

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In my center, we are all working 4 hours forced OT every day. We work 5

12-hour shifts with (if you're lucky) 2 days off. I frequently get only

one day off and there have been times that we have worked 12 12-hour

shifts between days off. Fortunately the 12 days are rare.

The OT for us is caused by a critical staff shortage. We are working at

a 50% staffing level. We do have some " dispatchers in training " that

will help relieve this problem when their training period is completed.

Two are very close to completion. Two more are about half through the

program. And another one starts training on Monday (Dec 30).

When we get back to adequate staffing, we will drop back to 8-hour

shifts with occasional OT to cover for vacations, sick leave, etc. I

can hardly wait for that day to arrive.

Bob Sawyer,

Hutchinson, KS

===Original Message===

Hi,

I was wondering what policies are in effect in regard to forced overtime

in

your depts?

Thanks and great list, I've enjoyed lurking the last couple of weeks :)

Annmarie aka Mickey

wench@... ~ mickeym@...

http://www.geocities.com/mickeyshomepage

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At 10:33 AM 12/29/02 -0600, you wrote:

>We can't work more then 12 hours in a row unless it's a crisis or

>emergency situation. Those extra 4 hours come from sick time

>mostly. Time needing to be filled in because of vacation or holiday time

>is on a voluntary OT sign up system. We're at full staff.

Thanks Jim. Are you unionized and is this a part of your contract?

Annmarie aka Mickey

wench@... ~ mickeym@...

http://www.geocities.com/mickeyshomepage

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At 08:52 AM 12/29/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Annmarie,

>

>So, if you get forced to work OT, you are working a

>double?

Yes. 16 hours. And although they will not allow us to work back to back

switches, which also result in 16 hour shifts, they have no rule on how

many doubles in a row you can be forced into. And to answer my own

questions to someone else, yes we are unionized, so to speak, we're

Teamsters and they don't do anything for us. We are in the process of

trying to break away from them.

> The way we do it is this: Someone on evening

>shift calls in sick. One person from day shift works

>the first half of the shift and one person from

>midnights works the second half.

Do you force that person into work? Can they say no? And if they are being

forced in, is this contractual?

> So, each person is

>working 12 hours. Sometimes the person that came in 4

>hours early is at risk of having to work another 4

>hours late. That's the only way anyone would work 16

>hours and I have never seen it happen.

You're very, very lucky then :)

Thanks Kim

Annmarie aka Mickey

wench@... ~ mickeym@...

http://www.geocities.com/mickeyshomepage

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At our agency we are not permitted to work more then 12 hours in a shift, in

fact we work 12 hour shifts as it is, we work 3 twelve hour days and a 6

hour day to make a 42 hour week, we then get paid OT for the 2 hours. Except

for emergencies such as hurricanes, etc.., we can refuse to work over time,

and will not be written up for it. If at the end of the shift, there have

been times that the shift coming on duty is short and that shifts supervisor

will ask someone to stay an extra 2 hours, but most people after working 12

hours will not stay for 14 b/c many like myself live in another county an

hour away. We are a decent size agency with a preferred min staff of 15 but

we have worked as little as 6 at a time. We work in 2 hour blocks, so anyone

wanting over time in comm can sign up for OT based on two hour blocks 07-09,

09-11 for ex. However, our agency has recently put an end to new volunteers

to come work in comm from other dept's within our agency because many people

will come work OT for two weeks, not to be seen again, b/c they simply had an

extra bill to pay. So the admin put a stop to that so that the dispatchers

would not have to waste time and money training someone for only that result.

So, if its not an emergency, after my 12 hours, sorry but im going to my

other home.

Collier County Sheriffs Office, Naples, FL

My opinions are just that, MINE!

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Kim,

It sounds like you have a pretty good place to work, and some

good people to work with.

But the things said in your post, cover most comm centers.

And it's a shame they have to work this way.

>Lots of times we get volunteers for the OT

If you were properly paid, and properly staffed, there should

be very little overtime period.

>And, you can say no, but you will be written

up and eventually probably fired if it happens

continually.

And that's simply wrong.... If it's EMERGENCY overtime,

I'd agree completely. No one should be FORCED to work

overtime unless it is an emergency situation.

If it's overtime simply because you're not properly

staffed... then that problem needs attention by

administrators.

>To me, it's a very efficient way of dealing with

manning problems.

Nope... the efficient way to deal with manning problems

is to pay and staff the center properly.

>And, the way it's set up, no one

gets overtaxed on OT. Most don't get forced on both

days they are eligible

Why should they be FORCED on any day, unless it is an emergency?

>We have a lot of volunteers,

especially right before Christmas.

They probably need the money. Why is that?

I know... you're telling it like it is... not like it should be, but it still

upsets me.

And with the government money problems, I fear it's going to

get much worse before there is any daylight at the end of the

tunnel.

These things seem to run in cycles, and it will get better, but

it's just a good thing that there are many dedicated, caring,

responsible Dispatchers to make it through the rough times.

Weintraut

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