Re: Question on how many carbs.

January 22, 2001

In a message dated 01-01-22 07:44:32 EST, you write:

<< I told him he needs to learn his body and what he can and can't eat.. >>

This is a good answer. He needs to stop being so passive. Vicki

January 22, 2001

Well, Donna, if Susie's post doesn't set your guy straight I don't know what

will. Great post, Susie! Vicki

January 22, 2001

Dear Donna,

You wrote:

<< Would you please get this man on track for me, push him in the right

direction at least in

trying to take some responsibility for his diabetes. >>

I suspect the reason he is not taking more of an interest in his own major

disease is that no one has explained how serious it is. Tell him he has been

diagnosed with one of the leading killers, as well as one of the most

expensive diseases, that exists. Tell him that if he doesn't take care of

himself, odds are that he'll be dead in 15 years. Tell him it won't be a

nice, healthy existence until that day arrives; rather, he'll be beset by

any/all of the following: visual problems, quite possibly leading to

blindness; pain and/or deadness in his lower extremities, that often results

in sores that won't heal, and eventually gangrene. This requires

amputations. The surgeons call it " slice-and-dice. " First they cut off his

toes, then his feet, then his lower legs. Tell him one of the first things

to go is erections, since that's an extremity impacted by damage to nerves

and blood circulation. Tell him he may be unable to work due to the

complications - and that can happen within just the next few years. Tell him

he may well develop a clumsy gait due to the lack of sensory feedback in his

dead feet, and stumble and fall in public - creating the impression that he

is a drunk. Tell him he could lose his health insurance - and even his job -

as his mounting medical bills make him an undesirable employee. Tell him the

mood swings he will suffer from gyrating blood glucose levels will make him

unfit company. Oh, did I fail to mention? There's a pretty good chance he

will have at least one heart attack or stroke in the long downhill slide,

before it's all over with.

If any of the above gets through, give him books to read, including " Dr.

Bernstein's Diabetes Solution " and " The Protein Power LifePlan " by the Drs.

Eades. If he refuses to take his disease seriously, don't wear yourself out

over it. When it comes down to it, we can't control other people - only our

reaction to their behavior. If he wants to go to an early grave, make sure

he has life insurance, and has made out a Will. Then tell him it's been nice

knowing him, but that you must prepare yourself for a life without him,

since he is determined to end his prematurely, through neglect of a major,

life-threatening illness.

Susie

January 22, 2001

Dave O. wrote:

<< Actually Vick, I think I recall reading that a Mcs Big Mac was

around 430 carbs by itself.. >>

Here's a great, eye-opening website to bookmark. It gives nutritional info

for nearly all the food chains:

http://www.calorieking.com/cgi-bin/ck/fastfood.cgi

Among Mc's sandwiches, the Big Mac is the highest, with 570 calories

and 45 grams of carbs, followed by the Filet-O-Fish, with 470 calories and

44 grams carbs, and the Crispy Chicken Deluxe, at 500 calories and 43 grams

carbs. The carbiest items at Mc's are:

McFlurry 90

Oreo Cookie McFlurry 82

Super-Size Fries 78

Large Fries 68

Low-Fat Apple Bran Muffin 62

Hot Caramel Sundae 60

Spanish Omelette Bagel 60

Steak, Egg & Cheese Bagel 60

Shakes 60

Susie

January 22, 2001

Hi All:

Now I am mad and upset and don't know what to do next.............

Checked out my meter and it was off with the strip that comes with

it....called the Company and found out I was sold the wrong test

strips.....so in other words all my readings for the last 6 weeks may be

wrong........damn damn damn!!!!!

I called the company and said I wanted them exchanged tonight and they said

only do emergencies......I said this is an emergency....they said I had to

wait til tomorrow....So I don't know if I am hypoing or what the hell.......

So tomorrow will have to drive the 30 miles one way to get the right

strips....oh yes and the manufacturer is sending me a newer and better

machine and strips in about 2 days......

I tested a 57 and took one tab and tested 30 mins later and was

148......that's when decided to test machine......

I am so upset........was going to get groceries and now not sure why.......

Oh and the damn tabs cost me $1.62 for 6 in pkg and they said that is biggest

pkg they could get. So, thought would get them on line. But maybe I have

not been hypoing?

any suggestions til tomorrow?? Other than calming down........I am so upset

over this.....I don't need this crap......

January 22, 2001

In a message dated 1/22/01 8:48:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,

RainbowFarm@... writes:

> Maybe don't take your nitetime meds, or take 1/2, if

> you're concerned about going low?

Well my numbers seem to be going sky high now.....if I can believe my

machine.....and I just took my night pill before I got your message..but I

will be up a long time yet so will see what happens. I am calmed down now.

Just been one of those days. Sorry I dumped on all of you.

hugs

January 22, 2001

I recommend Clear American water, they have lots of different flavors

and 0s all the way down --

no carbs, sugars, sodium, etc... Available at Wal-Mart and Sam's Club and

are usually priced

at 2 for a buck.

In the way of diet sodas, I have found that they taste fairly good with

LOTS of ice to make them

extremely cold.

Since I was diagnosed I have followed my doctors and diabetic specialist

orders explicitly and

have had no troubles. I do the daily exercise, eat within the set carb and

sodium limits and

take my medication (Glucovance).

Spyder

spyder@...

January 22, 2001

Donna: have you suggested counseling for him? Maybe he experiencing

depression since being diagnosed? I know I did when I was

diagnosed......still do from time to time. In fact in my case, I think my

previous depression had a lot to do with me developing diabetes.

Depresseion runs in my family.as does diabetes.....experienced depression

on and off for years.....and when I am depressed I don't take care of

myself like I should......out of control eating, (comfor foods), weight

gain, etc........of course with the weight gain and carb eating and family

history combined I got diabetes.....I think in a lot of people, the two go

hand in hand.......not all diabetics, but certainly a good number of them.

One thing you must not do though is babysit him. He's a big boy, he can

learn in time to manage this himself. Support him, yes, do it for him,

no. You also have to remember through this, to take care of yourself also

(mentally and physically) so you can be a good support for him. Good luck!

" Donna K. H. " wrote:

> I give up if he gives up. I walk then. between his son and him I'm

> starting to feel stressed out BIG time. He just came home and said his

> blood was up before lunch. I said did you check after lunch? Like two

> hours after eating. No,sigh. Both father and son are sitting on the couch

>

> cuddling each other like " feeling sorry for each other. "

>

> Donna

>

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:35:28 EST whimsy2@... writes:

> > Well, Donna, if Susie's post doesn't set your guy straight I don't

> > know what

> > will. Great post, Susie! Vicki

> >

> > Public website for Diabetes International:

> > http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

> >

> > Post message: diabetes_integroups

> > Subscribe: diabetes_int-subscribeegroups

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> >

> > URL: /group/diabetes_int

> >

>

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January 22, 2001

>any suggestions til tomorrow?? Other than calming down........I am so

upset

>over this.....I don't need this crap......

>

*****De-e-e-e-e-p brea-ea-ea-ea-th. It'll be ok, , but i do

understand your anger. Maybe don't take your nitetime meds, or take 1/2, if

you're concerned about going low?

Barb

--------

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

Equine photography

http://www.RainbowFarm.com/photos.html

January 22, 2001

Take good care of yourself, Donna. Maybe you need to step back, spend a

night in a hotel or something, just to reconnect with yourself. There's a

lot of information available about how stressful DM is for the patient -

much less about how it affects family and friends. Consider yourself the

patient, and the disease is stress.

About 18 months before I was diagnosed, while working in a long term acute

care hospital, we had a patient who had a major infection in her stump. She

had one leg removed up to mid thigh, and the other leg was just below the

knee. I, being encouraged to interact with the nursing staff, asked what

her story was. I was told that she was a non-compliant diabetic, and would

probably lose all of both legs. She also had retinopathy and kidney

problems.

When I got my diagnosis, my initial reaction (and the doctor tried hard to

counteract it) was to lie in the living room floor, crying that I was going

to die, and when I did, I would be blind and have no legs.

Sometimes it takes a period of mourning to get up and do something about

your new life. And that is what this is. It's a new life. One with DM.

Tell him you're in it for the long haul. Remind him that you want to care

about him, not for him. Say you want to grow old together. Be there when

he finally gets the message that it's real; scary real. Then he'll realize

how lucky he is to have you.

Robin G.

>

>Reply-To: diabetes_integroups

>To: diabetes_integroups

>Subject: Re: Question on how many carbs.

>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:19:34 -0800

>

>I give up if he gives up. I walk then. between his son and him I'm

>starting to feel stressed out BIG time. He just came home and said his

>blood was up before lunch. I said did you check after lunch? Like two

>hours after eating. No,sigh. Both father and son are sitting on the couch

>cuddling each other like " feeling sorry for each other. "

>

>Donna

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January 22, 2001

>I am calmed down now.

>Just been one of those days. Sorry I dumped on all of you.

****It's what we're here for, :-)

Barb

--------

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

Equine photography

http://www.RainbowFarm.com/photos.html

January 23, 2001

Donna, if you can't get him to read the Bernstein book READ IT YOURSELF!

This is critical! Vicki

In a message dated 01-01-23 13:11:41 EST, you write:

<<

Like this morning. His sugar was up to 240. I said Oh that's not good. He

said it has to be up in order for the medicine to bring it down to normal

because if I was in the normal range then the medicine would lower to

low. I said what!!! I said no, no if you have it under control your sugar

should be kept in a certain range all the time >>

January 23, 2001

In a message dated 01/23/2001 3:40:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

<< Like this morning. His sugar was up to 240. I said Oh that's not good. He

said it has to be up in order for the medicine to bring it down to normal

because if I was in the normal range then the medicine would lower to >>

This guy is in dire need of education, do ask your DR for him to see a CDE,

certified diabetic educator, an endo, a diabetes DR, and read this book.

He is in denial big time, I agree, why not read the book to him, just to get

him started.

I went through this with my late husband, he was diagnosed dm2, but was

actually in kidney failure, had a heart attack, and had high blood pressure,

he was even telling his DR's to hide his labs from me knowing that was my

job. He was only 6 months into diagnosis, so no telling how long he really

had high BG's.

Just do what you can, be sure to tell him it can be fatal as he knows, I

guess he's figuring better not to know, he needs to know aggressive care now

will give him a new life, a big job for you alone, you need a good diabetic

team now for him.

But sorry to say, as I found out if he doesn't care, there is nothing you can

do. You can't do it for him.

carol

January 23, 2001

Donna:

Congrats and good for you......too bad that you had to do it that way but

whatever works to get your loved ones on the road to good health. I applaud

your tenacity.

hugs

January 23, 2001

Donna wrote:

<< I did not put much thought into maybe being depressed. >>

It could be fear. Maybe, with his family history (including the former wife)

he feels he is doomed no matter what he does, and is stoically waiting for

the end - trying not to worry you. Challenge him to take his type 2

seriously by getting online and introducing himself to our group. I think he

should talk to us, diabetic to diabetic. I think he is pulling your leg - or

at least his, when he suggests that hyperglycemia is a good thing. Remind

him that medicine and/or insulin is only for those of us who fail to achieve

good control using diet, exercise and weight loss alone. It's not a

permanent solution, by any means.

<< Like this morning. His sugar was up to 240. >>

What did he eat the day before that drove his numbers up? I sense there is

mounting tension over this, and I hope he will make an effort to do his part

to ensure a long, healthy life for himself.

Susie

January 23, 2001

In a message dated 01-01-23 17:43:27 EST, you write:

<< I also told Ron he knows nothing about diabetes but that he will start

educating himself so he is able to take care of himself >>

Good for you, Donna! Now...do you have the Bernstein book yet??? Vicki

January 23, 2001

In a message dated 01-01-23 18:12:55 EST, you write:

<< but him and his son have been told by me

tonight that once dad goes to the Dr. and we get him on track EVERYONE in

the house will be eating for dad's health. >>

Donna, do be aware that the vast majority of doctors follow the ADA plan for

diabetics, which is definitely not a lowcarb plan. Lowcarb gives the fastest

and most dramatic results but it's not the only way. There are some people

on this list who have found success with the ADA plan. Many more on this

list follow lowcarb. So if you're planning to go this route, try to find a

doctor who approves of it. I'd suggest you read the Bernstein book as soon as

you can...specifically before you see t he doctor so you can ask the right

questions.

Diabetes is a self managed disease but most doctors don't see it that way

because most patients don't want it that way. They would rather take a pill

or two and not change teir way of eating. That will get you noplace fast.

Vicki

January 23, 2001

Thanks I did not put much thought into maybe being depressed. I think his

problem is not understanding how diabetes works.

Like this morning. His sugar was up to 240. I said Oh that's not good. He

said it has to be up in order for the medicine to bring it down to normal

because if I was in the normal range then the medicine would lower to

low. I said what!!! I said no, no if you have it under control your sugar

should be kept in a certain range all the time. I said we need to get you

to that new Dr. ASAP so he can decide what is best for you with all your

medical problems. I'm not a Dr. and can't give you all the answers on how

to properly care for your diabetes.

I called and am waiting for this diabetic Dr. to call back and make an

appointment for him and I'm going to ALL his appointment with him.

This is a man that reads up on everything. I mean if he don't understand

something he is pulling out a book but he won't touch those diabetic

books. Might be the fear of what he will read. His ex wife died last

March after only 6 months of finding out she was diabetic. She was over

weight and did not take care of herself.

Donna

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:11:42 -0500 Marr

writes:

> Donna: have you suggested counseling for him? Maybe he

> experiencing

January 23, 2001

Good for you!!!

Debbie

January 23, 2001

Brava, Donna!! Good job.

Teri

Re: Question on how many carbs.

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I decide I had enough of him and his son neglecting their health. The son

knows how to take care of his ashma properly but would rather lay in bed

and not go to school. He uses his ashma to get out of school and will do

everything to get out of his treatments. I marched in his room and told

him. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! Get up and take your treatments now!! He went

back to sleep and I woke up him. Stood there while he took his treatment.

He has had two treatments and is feeling much better. Now I'm working on

his dad. YOUR GOING TO THE DR. WHEN THEY CAN FIT YOU IN. Not when Ron

wants to go. He said I won't go unless it's later in the afternoon. I

said I had enough of this!! Putting my foot down for a change and it's

working. Never thought I had it in me, smile. I also told Ron he knows

nothing about diabetes but that he will start educating himself so he is

able to take care of himself

Donna

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:09:32 EST astrocarly@... writes:

> In a message dated 01/23/2001 3:40:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> whimsy2@... writes:

>

> << Like this morning. His sugar was up to 240. I said Oh that's not

> good. He

> said it has to be up in order for the medicine to bring it down to

> normal

> because if I was in the normal range then the medicine would lower

> to >>

>

> This guy is in dire need of education, do ask your DR for him to see

> a CDE,

> certified diabetic educator, an endo, a diabetes DR, and read this

> book.

> He is in denial big time, I agree, why not read the book to him,

> just to get

> him started.

> I went through this with my late husband, he was diagnosed dm2, but

> was

> actually in kidney failure, had a heart attack, and had high blood

> pressure,

> he was even telling his DR's to hide his labs from me knowing that

> was my

> job. He was only 6 months into diagnosis, so no telling how long he

> really

> had high BG's.

> Just do what you can, be sure to tell him it can be fatal as he

> knows, I

> guess he's figuring better not to know, he needs to know aggressive

> care now

> will give him a new life, a big job for you alone, you need a good

> diabetic

> team now for him.

> But sorry to say, as I found out if he doesn't care, there is

> nothing you can

> do. You can't do it for him.

> carol

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January 23, 2001

You go girl!!! Good for you :-)

Barb

--------

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

Equine photography

http://www.RainbowFarm.com/photos.html

> I decide I had enough of him and his son neglecting their health. The son

> knows how to take care of his ashma properly but would rather lay in bed

> and not go to school. He uses his ashma to get out of school and will do

> everything to get out of his treatments. I marched in his room and told

> him. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! Get up and take your treatments now!! He went

> back to sleep and I woke up him. Stood there while he took his treatment.

> He has had two treatments and is feeling much better. Now I'm working on

> his dad. YOUR GOING TO THE DR. WHEN THEY CAN FIT YOU IN. Not when Ron

> wants to go. He said I won't go unless it's later in the afternoon. I

> said I had enough of this!! Putting my foot down for a change and it's

> working. Never thought I had it in me, smile. I also told Ron he knows

> nothing about diabetes but that he will start educating himself so he is

> able to take care of himself

>

> Donna

January 23, 2001

In a message dated 01/23/2001 5:19:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

> Donna, do be aware that the vast majority of doctors follow the ADA plan for

> diabetics, which is definitely not a lowcarb plan. Lowcarb gives the

> fastest

> and most dramatic results but it's not the only way. There are some people

> on this list who have found success with the ADA plan. Many more on this

> list follow lowcarb. So if you're planning to go this route, try to find a

> doctor who approves of it. I'd suggest you read the Bernstein book as soon

> as

> you can...specifically before you see t he doctor so you can ask the right

> questions.

>

> Diabetes is a self managed disease but most doctors don't see it that way

> because most patients don't want it that way. They would rather take a

> pill

> or two and not change teir way of eating. That will get you noplace fast.

>

Could those of you on the ADA diet comment on how it is working for you?

Thanks,

Danna

January 23, 2001